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299a08f3 NR |
1 | STUDY FINDS PROBIOTICS 'NOT AS BENEFICIAL FOR GUT HEALTH AS \r |
2 | PREVIOUSLY THOUGHT' (THEGUARDIAN.COM) \r | |
3 | \r | |
4 | Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (BeauHD)\r | |
5 | from the contrary-to-popular-belief dept.\r | |
6 | \r | |
c715ea02 | 7 | o Reference: 0102641010\r |
299a08f3 NR |
8 | o News link: https://science.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2153223/study-finds-probiotics-not-as-beneficial-for-gut-health-as-previously-thought\r |
9 | o Source link: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/sep/06/probiotics-not-as-beneficial-for-gut-health-as-previously-thought\r | |
10 | \r | |
11 | \r | |
e818d449 NR |
12 | An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Guardian:\r |
13 | \r | |
14 | > The gut microbiome is the sum total of all the\r | |
15 | micro-organisms living in a person's gut, and has been shown\r | |
16 | to play a huge role in human health. New research has found\r | |
17 | probiotics -- usually taken as supplements or in foods such as\r | |
18 | yoghurt, kimchi or kefir -- [1]can hinder a patient's gut\r | |
19 | microbiome from returning to normal after a course of\r | |
20 | antibiotics , and that different people respond to probiotics\r | |
21 | in dramatically different ways. In the [2]first of two papers\r | |
22 | published in the journal Cell, researchers performed\r | |
23 | endoscopies and colonoscopies to sample and study the gut\r | |
24 | microbiomes of people who took antibiotics before and after\r | |
25 | probiotic consumption. Another group were given samples of\r | |
26 | their own gut microbiomes collected before consuming\r | |
27 | antibiotics. The researchers found the microbiomes of those\r | |
28 | who had taken the probiotics had suffered a "very severe\r | |
29 | disturbance." "Once the probiotics had colonized the gut, they\r | |
30 | completely inhibited the return of the indigenous microbiome\r | |
31 | which was disrupted during antibiotic treatment," said Eran\r | |
32 | Elinav, an immunologist at the Weizmann Institute of Science\r | |
33 | in Israel and lead author on the studies.\r | |
34 | \r | |
35 | >\r | |
36 | \r | |
37 | > The scientists also compared the gut microbiomes of the gut\r | |
299a08f3 NR |
38 | intestinal tract of 25 volunteers with that of their stools.\r |
39 | They found that stool bacteria only partially correlated with\r | |
40 | the microbiomes functioning inside their bodies. "So the fact\r | |
41 | that we all almost exclusively rely on stool in our microbiome\r | |
42 | research may not be a reliable way of studying gut microbiome\r | |
e818d449 | 43 | health," said Elinav. In the [3]second paper , the researchers\r |
299a08f3 NR |
44 | examined the colonization and impact of probiotics on 15\r |
45 | people by sampling within their gastrointestinal tract. They\r | |
46 | divided the individuals into two groups: one were given a\r | |
47 | preparation made of 11 strains of very commonly used\r | |
48 | probiotics and the other were given a placebo. Of those who\r | |
49 | were given probiotics, he said, "We could group the\r | |
50 | individuals into two distinct groups: one which resisted the\r | |
51 | colonisation of the probiotics, and one in which the\r | |
52 | probiotics colonized the gut and modified the composition of\r | |
53 | the gut microbiome and the genes of the host individual."\r | |
e818d449 NR |
54 | \r |
55 | \r | |
56 | \r | |
57 | [1] https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/sep/06/probiotics-\r | |
58 | not-as-beneficial-for-gut-health-as-previously-thought\r | |
59 | \r | |
60 | [2] https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(18)31102-4\r | |
61 | \r | |
62 | [3] https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(18)31108-5\r | |
299a08f3 NR |
63 | \r |
64 | \r | |
65 | ** \r | |
66 | \r | |
67 | ** Re: (Score:2)\r | |
68 | (by jblues ( 1703158 ))\r | |
69 | \r | |
70 | \r | |
71 | Bacteria are are naturally present in raw fruit and\r | |
72 | vegetables and naturally fermented foods, including naturally\r | |
73 | fermented bread. Most cold climate cultures relied on\r | |
74 | fermented vegetables to get them through the winter. Salt\r | |
75 | fermentation of raw vegetables allows the lactobacillus\r | |
76 | bacterias to proliferate. Almost all of the sugars are\r | |
77 | consumed, however most of the rest of nutritional profile is\r | |
78 | intact, including the vitamin C. In some cases the\r | |
79 | nutritional profile is enhanced. This is why viking sailors\r | |
80 | di\r | |
81 | \r | |
82 | \r | |
83 | ** Bitter sweet (Score:3, Informative)\r | |
84 | (by Anonymous Coward)\r | |
85 | \r | |
86 | \r | |
87 | Been saying this for years. I get some people have IBS but the\r | |
88 | reliance on things like yogurt is crazy.\r | |
89 | Fun little tip for a stomach ache - saliva. Let it build in your\r | |
90 | mouth (without water) and swallow in one gulp. Not only does it\r | |
91 | give your mouth a natural way to break down any bateria / sugar,\r | |
92 | but helps to calm your gut. Mouthwash is the nuclear option.\r | |
93 | So much of how your body functions comes down to diet. It's\r | |
94 | interesting they do not go into what foods were consumed.\r | |
95 | \r | |
96 | ** \r | |
97 | \r | |
98 | ** Re: (Score:3)\r | |
99 | (by omnichad ( 1198475 ))\r | |
100 | \r | |
101 | \r | |
102 | The "S" stands for syndrome, which identifies it as a\r | |
103 | collection of symptoms and not a disease. It's a diagnosis\r | |
104 | only in that there are good ways to treat the symptoms\r | |
105 | even when you don't understand the root cause fully.\r | |
106 | \r | |
107 | \r | |
108 | \r | |
109 | ** I guess it's back to (Score:2)\r | |
110 | (by bobstreo ( 1320787 ))\r | |
111 | \r | |
112 | \r | |
113 | shit transplants for the health crazed. /s\r | |
114 | Seriously, is anything really good or really bad for you in\r | |
115 | moderation?\r | |
116 | \r | |
117 | ** Don't take probiotic pills (Score:5, Insightful)\r | |
118 | (by PopeRatzo ( 965947 ))\r | |
119 | \r | |
120 | \r | |
121 | Don't waste your money on probiotic capsules. If you want to try\r | |
122 | to increase the amount or variety of bacteria in your guts,\r | |
123 | there are tons of delicious foods that are chock full of\r | |
124 | probiotics. Olives, pickles, fermented meats like the Italian\r | |
125 | delicacy soprasetta (which might be the tastiest thing ever\r | |
126 | invented by humans). Kimchi is also good, but it will make you\r | |
127 | smell bad, so if you're single, you might want to go easy on the\r | |
128 | kimchi.\r | |
129 | Also, if you use vinegar on salads, try getting some of that\r | |
130 | good cider vinegar that still has the "mother" in it. Shake the\r | |
131 | bottle and use like any other vinegar. And of course, yogurt,\r | |
132 | kefir, that kind of stuff is delicious too.\r | |
133 | I'm not crazy about kombucha. It's a big fad now and there are\r | |
134 | places here in California that have kombucha on tap, but it's\r | |
135 | not really to my taste. Some people swear by it. I notice that\r | |
136 | now when you buy it in the store, they ask for an ID since\r | |
137 | there's a small amount of alcohol in it.\r | |
138 | Also, alcohol is not really good for your gut bacteria, but\r | |
139 | there are more important things in life than gut bacteria, you\r | |
140 | know? Just eat a lot of different kinds of food and you'll end\r | |
141 | up with good gut bacteria without even trying.\r | |
142 | \r | |
143 | ** Re: Don't take probiotic pills (Score:3)\r | |
144 | (by ljw1004 ( 764174 ))\r | |
145 | \r | |
146 | \r | |
147 | Why would you advise people on natural sources of probiotics\r | |
148 | - in response to an article which said that they're either\r | |
149 | ineffectual or actually bad?\r | |
150 | \r | |
151 | ** Re: (Score:2)\r | |
152 | (by omnichad ( 1198475 ))\r | |
153 | \r | |
154 | \r | |
155 | They likely contain a lot more biodiversity vs. a\r | |
156 | monoculture or handful of strains in probiotic\r | |
157 | supplements. And they would still probably be ineffectual\r | |
158 | most of the time, except after antibiotic use. This study\r | |
159 | doesn't cover any of that. Of course if you're trying to\r | |
160 | feed the microbiome you already have, eating unfermented\r | |
161 | vegetables makes more sense as they still have the complex\r | |
162 | sugars like oligosaccharides, fructans and so on that\r | |
163 | would feed it. That depends on whether you are\r | |
164 | repopulating after an\r | |
165 | \r | |
166 | \r | |
167 | ** Re: (Score:2)\r | |
168 | (by PopeRatzo ( 965947 ))\r | |
169 | \r | |
170 | \r | |
171 | > Why would you advise people on natural sources of\r | |
172 | > probiotics - in response to an article which said that\r | |
173 | > they're either ineffectual or actually bad?\r | |
174 | Because on the high probability that this new "study"\r | |
175 | actually gets overturned by future research, I want people\r | |
176 | to know they can eat delicious healthy food.\r | |
177 | Remember when fats were bad? And coffee? And wine was good\r | |
178 | for you? And eggs were bad for you? And low-fat diets were\r | |
179 | good for losing weight?\r | |
180 | And chocolate was bad for you? Do you need me to go on?\r | |
181 | When\r | |
182 | \r | |
183 | \r | |
184 | \r | |
185 | ** Makes sense to me. (Score:5, Informative)\r | |
186 | (by Vegan Cyclist ( 1650427 ))\r | |
187 | \r | |
188 | \r | |
189 | Most probiotics are a pretty small range of bacteria, and I\r | |
190 | don't know if I've ever seen anywhere that confirms these are\r | |
191 | actually the ones we want on a large scale...especially when\r | |
192 | some supplements have pretty large doses of these.\r | |
193 | From all the reading I've done it seems the best direction will\r | |
194 | be to focus on prebiotics, aka the foods that the microbiome\r | |
195 | thrives on, which is typically fibrous vegetable matter. Feed\r | |
196 | the good ones you've got (rather than trying to implant others),\r | |
197 | and you'll probably be better off.\r | |
198 | \r | |
199 | ** This study is done by morons (Score:2)\r | |
200 | (by gurps_npc ( 621217 ))\r | |
201 | \r | |
202 | \r | |
203 | What idiot thinks that if you give pills of a specific biome you\r | |
204 | will get something BESIDES that specific biome???? Look, if you\r | |
205 | take probiotic pills, you are replacing your normal biome WITH\r | |
206 | the biome of the pills.\r | |
207 | That was the presumed GOAL of taking the pills. The fact that\r | |
208 | your biome change is the thing you were trying to do, that's why\r | |
209 | you take the pills.\r | |
210 | If you have a blue car, and then paint it with red paint you are\r | |
211 | an idiot if you complain that the car is no longer red.\r | |
212 | There are lots of good reas\r | |
213 | \r | |
214 | ** Re: (Score:2)\r | |
215 | (by omnichad ( 1198475 ))\r | |
216 | \r | |
217 | \r | |
218 | > Look, if you take probiotic pills, you are replacing your\r | |
219 | > normal biome WITH the biome of the pills.\r | |
220 | The study concluded the opposite (in all cases except with\r | |
221 | antibiotic use). And the results are surprising. What it\r | |
222 | sounds like is happening is that all of the bacteria in the\r | |
223 | probiotic compete for food with the biofilm in your\r | |
224 | intestines. However, the probiotic has no way to supplant the\r | |
225 | biofilm - that's a protective layer that keeps out competing\r | |
226 | bacteria. It just starves the resident population a little\r | |
227 | bit as it passes on through. Either way, more or less none of\r | |
228 | it stays behind and it all leaves t\r | |
229 | \r | |
230 | \r | |
231 | \r |