public class Test extends TestLauncher {
public Test(String[] args) {
super("GoFetch", args);
- addSeries(new TestLWN(args));
+ addTest(new TestLWN(args));
+ addTest(new TestSlashdot(args));
}
public static void main(String[] args) {
import be.nikiroo.gofetch.support.BasicSupport;
import be.nikiroo.utils.IOUtils;
import be.nikiroo.utils.test.TestCase;
-import be.nikiroo.utils.test.TestLauncher;
/**
* Base class for {@link BasicSupport}s testing.
*
* @author niki
*/
-abstract class TestBase extends TestLauncher {
+abstract class TestBase extends TestCase {
+ private BasicSupport support;
+
public TestBase(BasicSupport support, String[] args) {
- super(support.getType().toString(), args);
- addTest(support);
+ super(support.getType().toString());
+ this.support = support;
}
static protected InputStream doOpen(BasicSupport support,
}
- private void addTest(final BasicSupport support) {
- addTest(new TestCase("Processing example data") {
- @Override
- public void test() throws Exception {
- File expected = new File("test/expected/" + support.getType());
- File actual = new File("test/result/" + support.getType());
+ @Override
+ public void test() throws Exception {
+ File expected = new File("test/expected/" + support.getType());
+ File actual = new File("test/result/" + support.getType());
- IOUtils.deltree(actual);
- expected.mkdirs();
- actual.mkdirs();
+ IOUtils.deltree(actual);
+ expected.mkdirs();
+ actual.mkdirs();
- Output gopher = new Gopher(support.getType(), "", "", 70);
- Output html = new Html(support.getType(), "", "", 80);
+ Output gopher = new Gopher(support.getType(), "", "", 70);
+ Output html = new Html(support.getType(), "", "", 80);
- for (Story story : support.list()) {
- support.fetch(story);
- IOUtils.writeSmallFile(new File(actual, story.getId()
- + ".header"), gopher.exportHeader(story));
- IOUtils.writeSmallFile(
- new File(actual, story.getId() + ""),
- gopher.export(story));
- IOUtils.writeSmallFile(new File(actual, story.getId()
- + ".header.html"), html.exportHeader(story));
- IOUtils.writeSmallFile(new File(actual, story.getId()
- + ".html"), html.export(story));
- }
+ for (Story story : support.list()) {
+ support.fetch(story);
+ IOUtils.writeSmallFile(new File(actual, story.getId() + ".header"),
+ gopher.exportHeader(story));
+ IOUtils.writeSmallFile(new File(actual, story.getId() + ""),
+ gopher.export(story));
+ IOUtils.writeSmallFile(new File(actual, story.getId()
+ + ".header.html"), html.exportHeader(story));
+ IOUtils.writeSmallFile(new File(actual, story.getId() + ".html"),
+ html.export(story));
+ }
- assertEquals(expected, actual);
- }
- });
+ assertEquals(expected, actual);
}
}
--- /dev/null
+package be.nikiroo.gofetch.test;
+
+import java.io.File;
+import java.io.IOException;
+import java.io.InputStream;
+import java.net.MalformedURLException;
+import java.net.URL;
+import java.util.HashMap;
+import java.util.Map;
+
+import be.nikiroo.gofetch.support.Slashdot;
+import be.nikiroo.gofetch.support.Type;
+
+public class TestSlashdot extends TestBase {
+
+ static private Map<URL, File> getMap() throws MalformedURLException {
+ Map<URL, File> map = new HashMap<URL, File>();
+
+ map.put(new URL("https://slashdot.org/"), new File("index.html"));
+
+ map.put(new URL(
+ "https://developers.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2024232/software-developers-are-now-more-valuable-to-companies-than-money-says-survey"),
+ new File(
+ "developers.slashdot.org/story_18_09_06_2024232_software-developers-are-now-more-valuable-to-companies-than-money-says-survey.html"));
+ map.put(new URL(
+ "https://games.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1921222/eve-online-studio-acquired-by-korean-mmo-maker"),
+ new File(
+ "games.slashdot.org/story_18_09_06_1921222_eve-online-studio-acquired-by-korean-mmo-maker.html"));
+ map.put(new URL(
+ "https://games.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2146237/valve-explains-how-it-decides-whos-a-straight-up-troll-publishing-video-games-on-steam"),
+ new File(
+ "games.slashdot.org/story_18_09_06_2146237_valve-explains-how-it-decides-whos-a-straight-up-troll-publishing-video-games-on-steam.html"));
+ map.put(new URL(
+ "https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1719243/robot-boat-sails-into-history-by-finishing-atlantic-crossing"),
+ new File(
+ "hardware.slashdot.org/story_18_09_06_1719243_robot-boat-sails-into-history-by-finishing-atlantic-crossing.html"));
+ map.put(new URL(
+ "https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2058201/mit-graduate-creates-robot-that-swims-through-pipes-to-find-out-if-theyre-leaking"),
+ new File(
+ "hardware.slashdot.org/story_18_09_06_2058201_mit-graduate-creates-robot-that-swims-through-pipes-to-find-out-if-theyre-leaking.html"));
+ map.put(new URL(
+ "https://it.slashdot.org/story/18/09/07/0247228/380000-card-payments-compromised-in-british-airways-breach"),
+ new File(
+ "it.slashdot.org/story_18_09_07_0247228_380000-card-payments-compromised-in-british-airways-breach.html"));
+ map.put(new URL(
+ "https://mobile.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/235254/icelanders-seek-to-keep-remote-nordic-peninsula-digital-free"),
+ new File(
+ "mobile.slashdot.org/story_18_09_06_235254_icelanders-seek-to-keep-remote-nordic-peninsula-digital-free.html"));
+ map.put(new URL(
+ "https://news.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1558206/computer-chips-are-still-made-in-usa"),
+ new File(
+ "news.slashdot.org/story_18_09_06_1558206_computer-chips-are-still-made-in-usa.html"));
+ map.put(new URL(
+ "https://news.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2043213/professor-who-coined-term-net-neutrality-thinks-its-time-to-break-up-facebook"),
+ new File(
+ "news.slashdot.org/story_18_09_06_2043213_professor-who-coined-term-net-neutrality-thinks-its-time-to-break-up-facebook.html"));
+ map.put(new URL(
+ "https://politics.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2137245/blockchains-are-not-safe-for-voting-concludes-nap-report"),
+ new File(
+ "politics.slashdot.org/story_18_09_06_2137245_blockchains-are-not-safe-for-voting-concludes-nap-report.html"));
+ map.put(new URL(
+ "https://science.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2153223/study-finds-probiotics-not-as-beneficial-for-gut-health-as-previously-thought"),
+ new File(
+ "science.slashdot.org/story_18_09_06_2153223_study-finds-probiotics-not-as-beneficial-for-gut-health-as-previously-thought.html"));
+ map.put(new URL(
+ "https://tech.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1839242/google-investigating-issue-with-blurry-fonts-on-new-chrome-69"),
+ new File(
+ "tech.slashdot.org/story_18_09_06_1839242_google-investigating-issue-with-blurry-fonts-on-new-chrome-69.html"));
+ map.put(new URL(
+ "https://tech.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1954253/400000-websites-vulnerable-through-exposed-git-directories"),
+ new File(
+ "tech.slashdot.org/story_18_09_06_1954253_400000-websites-vulnerable-through-exposed-git-directories.html"));
+ map.put(new URL(
+ "https://tech.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/205221/ive-seen-the-future-of-consumer-ai-and-it-doesnt-have-one"),
+ new File(
+ "tech.slashdot.org/story_18_09_06_205221_ive-seen-the-future-of-consumer-ai-and-it-doesnt-have-one.html"));
+ map.put(new URL(
+ "https://yro.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1651255/tor-browser-gets-a-redesign-switches-to-new-firefox-quantum-engine"),
+ new File(
+ "yro.slashdot.org/story_18_09_06_1651255_tor-browser-gets-a-redesign-switches-to-new-firefox-quantum-engine.html"));
+
+ return map;
+ }
+
+ public TestSlashdot(String[] args) {
+ super(new Slashdot() {
+ @Override
+ protected InputStream open(URL url) throws IOException {
+ return doOpen(this, getMap(), url);
+ }
+
+ @Override
+ public Type getType() {
+ return Type.SLASHDOT;
+ }
+ }, args);
+ }
+}
--- /dev/null
+ COMPUTER CHIPS ARE STILL 'MADE IN USA' (AXIOS.COM) \r
+\r
+ Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (msmash)\r
+ from the how-about-that dept.\r
+\r
+ o News link: https://news.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1558206/computer-chips-are-still-made-in-usa\r
+ o Source link: https://www.axios.com/computer-chips-manufacturing-america--10dcfe13-64f3-4ea9-ad4a-cb189a00429a.html\r
+\r
+\r
+ For all the wishful thinking about manufacturing more laptops\r
+ and iPhones in the U.S., there is one sector of tech\r
+ manufacturing where America remains a leader: computer chips.\r
+ From a report: Some $44 billion worth of semiconductors are\r
+ exported from the U.S. each year, making them America's fourth\r
+ leading manufacturing export after cars, airplanes and refined\r
+ oil. There are roughly 80 wafer fabrication plants (aka fabs)\r
+ in the U.S., spread across 19 states. [...] An even greater\r
+ share of the world's computer chips are designed domestically\r
+ and made overseas by companies including Qualcomm, Apple,\r
+ Broadcom and Nvidia. A bunch of the high-tech gear needed to\r
+ produce chips is also designed and/or made in the U.S.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by bobbied ( 2522392 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Why?\r
+ Politics of course..\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by Alwin Barni ( 5107629 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > Why?\r
+ > Politics of course..\r
+ Could you please expand?\r
+\r
+ ** Re:Why is it "wishful thinking"? (Score:5, Funny)\r
+ (by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ >> Why?\r
+ >> Politics of course..\r
+ > Could you please expand?\r
+ P o l i t i c s o f c o u r s e.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2, Funny)\r
+ (by Anonymous Coward)\r
+\r
+ \r
+ >>> Why?\r
+ >>> Politics of course..\r
+ >> Could you please expand?\r
+ > \r
+ > P o l i t i c s o f c o u r s e.\r
+ > \r
+ I'm not sure if I should laugh, or hunt you down and\r
+ smack you upside your head with a 2x4.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3)\r
+ (by Highdude702 ( 4456913 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ I mean, I thought it was hilarious, and it wasn't\r
+ the name calling garbage you see here too often.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by Alwin Barni ( 5107629 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ :-)\r
+ However:\r
+ expand ikspand/\r
+ verb\r
+ verb: expand; 3rd person present: expands; past\r
+ tense: expanded; past participle: expanded; gerund\r
+ or present participle: expanding\r
+ * become or make larger or more extensive\r
+ * give a fuller version or account of.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > :-)\r
+ > However: expand - verb ...\r
+ > (1) become or make larger or more extensive\r
+ > (2) give a fuller version or account of.\r
+ Yup, I know; I was married to an English teacher\r
+ for 20 years, but using the first definition was\r
+ funnier. :-)\r
+ [1]Remember Sue... [tumblr.com]\r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ [1] http://remembersue.tumblr.com/\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: Why is it "wishful thinking"? (Score:1)\r
+ (by Anonymous Coward)\r
+\r
+ \r
+ The only reason is automation. Jobs were never going to come\r
+ back from chip manufacturing.\r
+ They have a factory crew for setting up the parts and feeding\r
+ the machines. Pretty cheap, doesn't actually make much money\r
+ for anyone but the corporation running it. It's all\r
+ "unskilled" and low pay...setting up all those machines,\r
+ getting material dimensions in spec and running the machine\r
+ is just considered general labor.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3)\r
+ (by YuppieScum ( 1096 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > If the US leads in chip manufacture, why can't it be\r
+ > competitive in putting the pieces together?\r
+ Because most of the CPU silicon used in the commonest devices\r
+ - phones and laptops - is fabbed in Asia.\r
+ \r
+ Because most of the parts - like screens, RAM and flash\r
+ storage - are also made in Asia, so it's cheaper to bolt it\r
+ all together in a location closest to the source of the most\r
+ parts.\r
+ \r
+ Because final assembly of something like an iPhone is a\r
+ manual process that requires the dexterity of nimble fingers.\r
+ It's not quite the same as bolting doors onto a Chevvy.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by GameboyRMH ( 1153867 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Because it hardly has any of the pieces right now - it would\r
+ be a massive effort to put all the supply chains in place for\r
+ the various electronics components needed for a whole\r
+ computer when the US currently makes little more than chips.\r
+ Currently those supply chains are in Asia (which also has the\r
+ advantages of cheap labor and lax environmental laws). I'd\r
+ compare it to going from just making engine blocks to making\r
+ a whole car, but that underplays the difficulty too much.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by AHuxley ( 892839 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Re "why can't it be competitive in putting the pieces\r
+ together?"\r
+ Think back to the 1970 and 1980's when the CPU thing needed\r
+ new production lines and was no longer low yield skilled lab\r
+ work.\r
+ Non first world nations part pay their workers in food,\r
+ dormitories. Their introduction to work is free as its part\r
+ of the nations free "education".\r
+ Tax reductions and industrial export support then further\r
+ supports the electronics brand in the poor nation.\r
+ No unions. Lots of pollution.\r
+ \r
+ The big brands moved to ver\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** But for how long? (Score:2)\r
+ (by DMJC ( 682799 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Sure they still do, but China is beginning to manufacture X86\r
+ CPUs directly. It's only a matter of time until they catch up\r
+ and crush Intel and AMD through undercutting, and throwing money\r
+ at the problem. [1]https://www.tomshardware.com/n...\r
+ [tomshardware.com]\r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ [1]\r
+ https://www.tomshardware.com/news/china-zen-x86-processor-dryhan-\r
+ a,37417.html\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by Dallas May ( 4891515 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ In the long run, yes. Probably not really soon. There are\r
+ plenty of significant advances happening that space right\r
+ now. They might market to the far low end PCs, but they\r
+ aren't the market AMD and Intel really want anyway.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by jon3k ( 691256 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ By then (10-20 years, if they're lucky) the desktop will be\r
+ commoditized and mobile (ie laptops) mostly replaced with\r
+ ARM. All the growth is in the server market and China is a\r
+ long, long way from producing an X86 CPU that can compete\r
+ with Intel Xeons. Who knows what the landscape will look like\r
+ by then.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: But for how long? (Score:2)\r
+ (by adolf ( 21054 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ This will also be the year of Linux on the desktop!\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by tsa ( 15680 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Yeah, paradise is near!\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by adolf ( 21054 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ We're on the home stretch, boys!\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by AHuxley ( 892839 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ As long as the NRO needs hand crafted space CPU products.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by CaffeinatedBacon ( 5363221 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ But who will people trust to make their CPU's. Intel with\r
+ their "management engine" and AMD etc all with the same is\r
+ already freaking enough people out.\r
+ Who is going to want a Chinese CPU with who knows what\r
+ running on it that you will never be able to see, has access\r
+ to everything, and can do anything it wants to "your\r
+ computer" and "your data".\r
+ Most countries would probably just ban them like they are\r
+ [1]doing for 5G telecom equipment already. [nytimes.com]\r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ [1]\r
+ https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/23/technology/huawei-banned-a-\r
+ ustralia-5g.html\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Yeah, but . . . (Score:5, Interesting)\r
+ (by dtmos ( 447842 ) *)\r
+\r
+ \r
+ . . . computer chips with state-of-the-art lithography soon all\r
+ will be manufactured overseas. Specifically, they will be made\r
+ by exactly two companies, [1]Samsung [samsungfoundry.com] and\r
+ [2]TSMC [tsmc.com], with GlobalFoundries' recent announcement\r
+ that it is [3]stopping development of its 7nm process\r
+ [anandtech.com]. GF operated the old IBM facility in Fishkill,\r
+ NY, and AFAIK was the last company offering state-of-the-art\r
+ foundry services with a fab in the US.\r
+ Intel is still in business, of course, and even has a [4]foundry\r
+ business [intel.com], but it cannot seem to successfully operate\r
+ it -- substantially all of its wafer starts are chips of its own\r
+ design. With the capital cost of each new-generation fab\r
+ reaching $20 billion, it's only a matter of time until Intel --\r
+ which has only its internal product base of chip designs to fill\r
+ its fabs, while Samsung and TSMC make chips for the entire\r
+ industry -- can no longer afford the move to the next\r
+ generation.\r
+ If the rest of the semiconductor industry (or the US DoD) wants\r
+ high-performance computer chips, there's now nowhere to go\r
+ except Samsung and TSMC. It will be interesting to see what\r
+ politicians do when they realize that the best digital chips can\r
+ no longer be manufactured in the US. The choice seems to be\r
+ either (1) have our economy -- everything from cell phones to\r
+ missiles -- dependent on chips manufactured overseas, or (2)\r
+ subsidize Intel's foundry business and the semiconductor\r
+ equipment manufacturers to the tune of tens of $billions, just\r
+ to keep a US source of high-performance semiconductors.\r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ [1] https://www.samsungfoundry.com/foundry/homepage.do\r
+ [2] http://www.tsmc.com/english/default.htm\r
+ [3]\r
+ https://www.anandtech.com/show/13277/globalfoundries-stops-all-7-\r
+ nm-development\r
+ [4] https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/foundry/overview.html\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3)\r
+ (by Dallas May ( 4891515 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ The same reason they haven't produced a car yet. They\r
+ could, but they don't want to. They have good deals with\r
+ their current suppliers, so why make that investment?\r
+\r
+ ** The normal Transition of economies (Score:2)\r
+ (by aberglas ( 991072 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ 1. Primary production\r
+ 2. Manufacturing\r
+ 3. Services\r
+ Services will keep things going fine. Lawyers, tax\r
+ accountants, retail and beauty consultants. That is\r
+ where the growth will come from.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by nateman1352 ( 971364 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ TI doesn't have state-of-the-art lithography for digital.\r
+ They gave up on the Moore's Law race 10 years ago after\r
+ they reached 45nm. TI realized during the development of\r
+ WinRT that building CPUs requires very expensive fabs and\r
+ if you are not an x86 supplier then your only option is to\r
+ make ARM chips, which is a race to the bottom with very\r
+ thin margins. TI realized they can make more money\r
+ building mixed signal designs on older process.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re:Yeah, but . . . (Score:4, Insightful)\r
+ (by Graymalkin ( 13732 ) *)\r
+\r
+ \r
+ State of the art lithography is not a synonym for\r
+ high-performance computer chips. In fact for a lot of uses,\r
+ DoD included, state of the art lithography is nowhere in the\r
+ requirements. Hardened chips on robust/insulated substrates\r
+ is more important in many uses than smaller die traces.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by KalvinB ( 205500 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ They'll be subsidized under issues of national security if\r
+ they're really needed by the government. The government\r
+ generally doesn't run bleeding edge technology so the chips\r
+ that can be produced in the US will be plenty sufficient for\r
+ government needs. If the government ever needs a $20 billion\r
+ plant, they'll cut a check under the national defense budget.\r
+ We've been comfortable with foreign made chips for decades in\r
+ the consumer market. Unless there is a severe national\r
+ security issue that won't change.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by nateman1352 ( 971364 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Intel has the same fundamental problem with foundry that AMD\r
+ had 10 years ago. Every 3rd party company does not trust\r
+ Intel to prioritize their products over Intel's own products.\r
+ Intel will always build their own products on the latest\r
+ process node first. If you fab with Intel then your wafers\r
+ will always get 2nd priority over Intel's own wafers. The\r
+ only way that is not the case is if you are such a huge\r
+ customer that your contract requires Intel to construct an\r
+ entire new factory just for you. Then you h\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Poor writing in TFA (Score:5, Informative)\r
+ (by whoever57 ( 658626 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ "An even greater share of the world's computer chips are\r
+ designed domestically and made overseas by companies including\r
+ Qualcomm, Apple, Broadcom and Nvidia."\r
+ This reads as though Qualcomm, Apple, Broadcom and Nvidia are\r
+ making chips. What would be clear and accurate is:\r
+ "An even greater share of the world's computer chips are\r
+ designed domestically by companies including Qualcomm, Apple,\r
+ Broadcom and Nvidia and made overseas."\r
+\r
+ ** Still somewhat misleading... (Score:4, Informative)\r
+ (by YuppieScum ( 1096 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Don't forget, a hefty chunk of Qualcomm's - and pretty much\r
+ all of Apple's - designs are not original, but instead are\r
+ based on IP from ARM, a British company (although recently\r
+ bought out by SoftBank).\r
+ \r
+ In fact, Broadcom and Nvidia are also licencees of ARM IP as\r
+ well, but less of their overall product range derives from\r
+ it.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Are you sure? (Score:3, Interesting)\r
+ (by Gabest ( 852807 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ TSMC and Samsung are the leaders in chip making. And second\r
+ class Intel and AMD both have shady Middle-East ties from Israel\r
+ and Dubai.\r
+\r
+ ** 13% market share is not good (Score:4, Interesting)\r
+ (by Goldsmith ( 561202 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ This is a crazy article. At the end, it meekly points out that\r
+ the US has a 13% market share in chip production. Given that the\r
+ US started this industry, leads in design in this space, leads\r
+ in capital available for high tech industry, and that the US\r
+ accounts for 15% to 18% of global GDP, a 13% market share in\r
+ chip production is very poor performance. This is below what you\r
+ might expect for a simple commodity that depends only on\r
+ domestic market size and way below what you'd expect for this\r
+ industry.\r
+\r
+\r
--- /dev/null
+0Computer Chips Are Still 'Made in USA' (axios.com) null/SLASHDOT/0102636958 70\r
+i Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (msmash)\r
+i from the how-about-that dept.\r
+i\r
+i For all the wishful thinking about manufacturing more laptops\r
+i and iPhones in the U.S., there is one sector of tech\r
+i manufacturing where America remains a leader: computer chips.\r
+i From a report: Some $44 billion worth of semiconductors are\r
+i exported from the U.S. each year, making them America's fourth\r
+i leading manufacturing export after cars, airplanes and refined\r
+i oil. There are roughly 80 wafer fabrication plants (aka fabs)\r
+i in the U.S., spread across 19 states. [...] An even greater\r
+i share of the world's computer chips are designed domestically\r
+i and made overseas by companies including Qualcomm, Apple,\r
+i Broadcom and Nvidia. A bunch of the high-tech gear needed to\r
+i produce chips is also designed and/or made in the U.S.\r
+i\r
--- /dev/null
+<!DOCTYPE html>
+<html>
+<head>
+ <meta http-equiv='content-type' content='text/html; charset=utf-8'>
+ <meta name='viewport' content='width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0'>
+ <style type='text/css'>
+ body { margin: 1em 15%; }
+ </style>
+</head>
+<body>
+<div class='story-header'>
+ <h1><a href='0102636958.html'>Computer Chips Are Still 'Made in USA' (axios.com)</a></h1>
+ <div class='details'>(Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (msmash)
+from the how-about-that dept.)</div>
+ <br/>
+ <div class='content' style='text-align: justify'>
+ For all the wishful thinking about manufacturing more laptops and iPhones in the U.S., there is one sector of tech manufacturing where America remains a leader: computer chips. From a report: Some $44 billion worth of semiconductors are exported from the U.S. each year, making them America's fourth leading manufacturing export after cars, airplanes and refined oil. There are roughly 80 wafer fabrication plants (aka fabs) in the U.S., spread across 19 states. [...] An even greater share of the world's computer chips are designed domestically and made overseas by companies including Qualcomm, Apple, Broadcom and Nvidia. A bunch of the high-tech gear needed to produce chips is also designed and/or made in the U.S.
+ </div>
+<hr/>
+</div>
+</body>
--- /dev/null
+<!DOCTYPE html>
+<html>
+<head>
+ <meta http-equiv='content-type' content='text/html; charset=utf-8'>
+ <meta name='viewport' content='width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0'>
+ <style type='text/css'>
+ body { margin: 1em 15%; }
+ </style>
+</head>
+<body>
+<div class='story'>
+ <h1>Computer Chips Are Still 'Made in USA' (axios.com)</h1>
+ <div class='details'>(Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (msmash)
+from the how-about-that dept.)</div>
+ <br/>
+ <ul>
+ <li>News link: <a href='https://news.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1558206/computer-chips-are-still-made-in-usa'>https://news.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1558206/computer-chips-are-still-made-in-usa</a></li>
+ <li>Source link: <a href='https://www.axios.com/computer-chips-manufacturing-america--10dcfe13-64f3-4ea9-ad4a-cb189a00429a.html'>https://www.axios.com/computer-chips-manufacturing-america--10dcfe13-64f3-4ea9-ad4a-cb189a00429a.html</a></li>
+ </ul>
+ <br/>
+ <div class='content' style='text-align: justify'>
+ For all the wishful thinking about manufacturing more laptops and iPhones in the U.S., there is one sector of tech manufacturing where America remains a leader: computer chips. From a report: Some $44 billion worth of semiconductors are exported from the U.S. each year, making them America's fourth leading manufacturing export after cars, airplanes and refined oil. There are roughly 80 wafer fabrication plants (aka fabs) in the U.S., spread across 19 states. [...] An even greater share of the world's computer chips are designed domestically and made overseas by companies including Qualcomm, Apple, Broadcom and Nvidia. A bunch of the high-tech gear needed to produce chips is also designed and/or made in the U.S.
+ </div>
+<hr/>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by bobbied ( 2522392 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Why?</p><p>Politics of course..</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Alwin Barni ( 5107629 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> Why?</p><p>> Politics of course..</p><p>Could you please expand?</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re:Why is it "wishful thinking"? (Score:5, Funny)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>>> Why?</p><p>>> Politics of course..</p><p>> Could you please expand?</p><p>P o l i t i c s o f c o u r s e.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2, Funny)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Anonymous Coward</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>>>> Why?</p><p>>>> Politics of course..</p><p>>> Could you please expand?</p><p>></p><p>> P o l i t i c s o f c o u r s e.</p><p>></p><p>I'm not sure if I should laugh, or hunt you down and smack you upside your head with a 2x4.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Highdude702 ( 4456913 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>I mean, I thought it was hilarious, and it wasn't the name calling garbage you see here too often.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Alwin Barni ( 5107629 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>:-)</p><p>However:</p><p>expand ikspand/</p><p>verb</p><p>verb: expand; 3rd person present: expands; past tense: expanded; past participle: expanded; gerund or present participle: expanding</p><p>* become or make larger or more extensive</p><p>* give a fuller version or account of.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> :-)</p><p>> However: expand - verb ...</p><p>> (1) become or make larger or more extensive</p><p>> (2) give a fuller version or account of.</p><p>Yup, I know; I was married to an English teacher for 20 years, but using the first definition was funnier. :-)</p><p>[1]Remember Sue... [tumblr.com]</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>[1] http://remembersue.tumblr.com/</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: Why is it "wishful thinking"? (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Anonymous Coward</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>The only reason is automation. Jobs were never going to come back from chip manufacturing.</p><p>They have a factory crew for setting up the parts and feeding the machines. Pretty cheap, doesn't actually make much money for anyone but the corporation running it. It's all "unskilled" and low pay...setting up all those machines, getting material dimensions in spec and running the machine is just considered general labor.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by YuppieScum ( 1096 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> If the US leads in chip manufacture, why can't it be competitive in putting the pieces together?</p><p>Because most of the CPU silicon used in the commonest devices - phones and laptops - is fabbed in Asia.</p><p></p><p>Because most of the parts - like screens, RAM and flash storage - are also made in Asia, so it's cheaper to bolt it all together in a location closest to the source of the most parts.</p><p></p><p>Because final assembly of something like an iPhone is a manual process that requires the dexterity of nimble fingers. It's not quite the same as bolting doors onto a Chevvy.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by GameboyRMH ( 1153867 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Because it hardly has any of the pieces right now - it would be a massive effort to put all the supply chains in place for the various electronics components needed for a whole computer when the US currently makes little more than chips. Currently those supply chains are in Asia (which also has the advantages of cheap labor and lax environmental laws). I'd compare it to going from just making engine blocks to making a whole car, but that underplays the difficulty too much.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by AHuxley ( 892839 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Re "why can't it be competitive in putting the pieces together?"</p><p>Think back to the 1970 and 1980's when the CPU thing needed new production lines and was no longer low yield skilled lab work.</p><p>Non first world nations part pay their workers in food, dormitories. Their introduction to work is free as its part of the nations free "education".</p><p>Tax reductions and industrial export support then further supports the electronics brand in the poor nation.</p><p>No unions. Lots of pollution.</p><p></p><p>The big brands moved to ver</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>But for how long? (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by DMJC ( 682799 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Sure they still do, but China is beginning to manufacture X86 CPUs directly. It's only a matter of time until they catch up and crush Intel and AMD through undercutting, and throwing money at the problem. [1]https://www.tomshardware.com/n... [tomshardware.com]</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>[1] https://www.tomshardware.com/news/china-zen-x86-processor-dryhana,37417.html</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Dallas May ( 4891515 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>In the long run, yes. Probably not really soon. There are plenty of significant advances happening that space right now. They might market to the far low end PCs, but they aren't the market AMD and Intel really want anyway.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by jon3k ( 691256 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>By then (10-20 years, if they're lucky) the desktop will be commoditized and mobile (ie laptops) mostly replaced with ARM. All the growth is in the server market and China is a long, long way from producing an X86 CPU that can compete with Intel Xeons. Who knows what the landscape will look like by then.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: But for how long? (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by adolf ( 21054 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>This will also be the year of Linux on the desktop!</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by tsa ( 15680 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Yeah, paradise is near!</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by adolf ( 21054 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>We're on the home stretch, boys!</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by AHuxley ( 892839 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>As long as the NRO needs hand crafted space CPU products.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by CaffeinatedBacon ( 5363221 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>But who will people trust to make their CPU's. Intel with their "management engine" and AMD etc all with the same is already freaking enough people out.</p><p>Who is going to want a Chinese CPU with who knows what running on it that you will never be able to see, has access to everything, and can do anything it wants to "your computer" and "your data".</p><p>Most countries would probably just ban them like they are [1]doing for 5G telecom equipment already. [nytimes.com]</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/23/technology/huawei-banned-australia-5g.html</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Yeah, but . . . (Score:5, Interesting)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by dtmos ( 447842 ) *</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>. . . computer chips with state-of-the-art lithography soon all will be manufactured overseas. Specifically, they will be made by exactly two companies, [1]Samsung [samsungfoundry.com] and [2]TSMC [tsmc.com], with GlobalFoundries' recent announcement that it is [3]stopping development of its 7nm process [anandtech.com]. GF operated the old IBM facility in Fishkill, NY, and AFAIK was the last company offering state-of-the-art foundry services with a fab in the US.</p><p>Intel is still in business, of course, and even has a [4]foundry business [intel.com], but it cannot seem to successfully operate it -- substantially all of its wafer starts are chips of its own design. With the capital cost of each new-generation fab reaching $20 billion, it's only a matter of time until Intel -- which has only its internal product base of chip designs to fill its fabs, while Samsung and TSMC make chips for the entire industry -- can no longer afford the move to the next generation.</p><p>If the rest of the semiconductor industry (or the US DoD) wants high-performance computer chips, there's now nowhere to go except Samsung and TSMC. It will be interesting to see what politicians do when they realize that the best digital chips can no longer be manufactured in the US. The choice seems to be either (1) have our economy -- everything from cell phones to missiles -- dependent on chips manufactured overseas, or (2) subsidize Intel's foundry business and the semiconductor equipment manufacturers to the tune of tens of $billions, just to keep a US source of high-performance semiconductors.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>[1] https://www.samsungfoundry.com/foundry/homepage.do</p><p>[2] http://www.tsmc.com/english/default.htm</p><p>[3] https://www.anandtech.com/show/13277/globalfoundries-stops-all-7nm-development</p><p>[4] https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/foundry/overview.html</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Dallas May ( 4891515 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>The same reason they haven't produced a car yet. They could, but they don't want to. They have good deals with their current suppliers, so why make that investment?</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>The normal Transition of economies (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by aberglas ( 991072 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>1. Primary production</p><p>2. Manufacturing</p><p>3. Services</p><p>Services will keep things going fine. Lawyers, tax accountants, retail and beauty consultants. That is where the growth will come from.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by nateman1352 ( 971364 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>TI doesn't have state-of-the-art lithography for digital. They gave up on the Moore's Law race 10 years ago after they reached 45nm. TI realized during the development of WinRT that building CPUs requires very expensive fabs and if you are not an x86 supplier then your only option is to make ARM chips, which is a race to the bottom with very thin margins. TI realized they can make more money building mixed signal designs on older process.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re:Yeah, but . . . (Score:4, Insightful)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Graymalkin ( 13732 ) *</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>State of the art lithography is not a synonym for high-performance computer chips. In fact for a lot of uses, DoD included, state of the art lithography is nowhere in the requirements. Hardened chips on robust/insulated substrates is more important in many uses than smaller die traces.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by KalvinB ( 205500 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>They'll be subsidized under issues of national security if they're really needed by the government. The government generally doesn't run bleeding edge technology so the chips that can be produced in the US will be plenty sufficient for government needs. If the government ever needs a $20 billion plant, they'll cut a check under the national defense budget.</p><p>We've been comfortable with foreign made chips for decades in the consumer market. Unless there is a severe national security issue that won't change.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by nateman1352 ( 971364 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Intel has the same fundamental problem with foundry that AMD had 10 years ago. Every 3rd party company does not trust Intel to prioritize their products over Intel's own products. Intel will always build their own products on the latest process node first. If you fab with Intel then your wafers will always get 2nd priority over Intel's own wafers. The only way that is not the case is if you are such a huge customer that your contract requires Intel to construct an entire new factory just for you. Then you h</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Poor writing in TFA (Score:5, Informative)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by whoever57 ( 658626 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>"An even greater share of the world's computer chips are designed domestically and made overseas by companies including Qualcomm, Apple, Broadcom and Nvidia."</p><p>This reads as though Qualcomm, Apple, Broadcom and Nvidia are making chips. What would be clear and accurate is:</p><p>"An even greater share of the world's computer chips are designed domestically by companies including Qualcomm, Apple, Broadcom and Nvidia and made overseas."</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Still somewhat misleading... (Score:4, Informative)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by YuppieScum ( 1096 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Don't forget, a hefty chunk of Qualcomm's - and pretty much all of Apple's - designs are not original, but instead are based on IP from ARM, a British company (although recently bought out by SoftBank).</p><p></p><p>In fact, Broadcom and Nvidia are also licencees of ARM IP as well, but less of their overall product range derives from it.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Are you sure? (Score:3, Interesting)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Gabest ( 852807 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>TSMC and Samsung are the leaders in chip making. And second class Intel and AMD both have shady Middle-East ties from Israel and Dubai.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>13% market share is not good (Score:4, Interesting)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Goldsmith ( 561202 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>This is a crazy article. At the end, it meekly points out that the US has a 13% market share in chip production. Given that the US started this industry, leads in design in this space, leads in capital available for high tech industry, and that the US accounts for 15% to 18% of global GDP, a 13% market share in chip production is very poor performance. This is below what you might expect for a simple commodity that depends only on domestic market size and way below what you'd expect for this industry.</p></div>
+ </div>
+</div>
+</body>
--- /dev/null
+ TOR BROWSER GETS A REDESIGN, SWITCHES TO NEW FIREFOX QUANTUM \r
+ ENGINE (ZDNET.COM) \r
+\r
+ Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (msmash)\r
+ from the for-the-record dept.\r
+\r
+ o News link: https://yro.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1651255/tor-browser-gets-a-redesign-switches-to-new-firefox-quantum-engine\r
+ o Source link: https://www.zdnet.com/article/tor-browser-gets-a-redesign-switches-to-new-firefox-quantum-engine/\r
+\r
+\r
+ The Tor Browser has rolled out a new interface with the\r
+ release of v8. From a report: The Tor Browser has always been\r
+ based on the Firefox codebase, but it lagged behind a few\r
+ releases. Mozilla rolled out a major overhaul of the Firefox\r
+ codebase in November 2017, with the release of Firefox 57, the\r
+ first release in the Firefox Quantum series. Firefox Quantum\r
+ came with a new page rendering engine, a new add-ons API, and\r
+ a new user interface called the Photon UI. Because these were\r
+ major, code-breaking changes, it took the smaller Tor team\r
+ some time to integrate all of them into the Tor Browser\r
+ codebase and make sure everything worked as intended. The new\r
+ Tor Browser 8, released yesterday, is now in sync with the\r
+ most recent version of Firefox, the Quantum release, and also\r
+ supports all of its features. This means the Tor Browser now\r
+ uses the same modern Photon UI that current Firefox versions\r
+ use, it supports the same speed-optimized page rendering\r
+ engine and has also dropped support for the old XUL-based\r
+ add-ons system for the new WebExtensions API system used by\r
+ Chrome, Opera, Vivaldi, Brave, and the rest of the Chromium\r
+ browsers.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: Isn't page render speed pretty irrelevant for (Score:1)\r
+ (by Anonymous Coward)\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Not when you have the assets already cached. Most people\r
+ donâ(TM)t just visit a site once. I was playing with it this\r
+ morning. Itâ(TM)s a decent speed improvement even within the\r
+ restraints of tor\r
+ More impressively msmash posted an actual tech article not a\r
+ biasedpolitical article for a change. Losing too many readers\r
+ now I suspect\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3, Insightful)\r
+ (by Tough Love ( 215404 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > It's not like a new page renderer is going to solve that.\r
+ The point is to be synced up to the current Firefox codebase.\r
+ Which by the way is awesome. I have all my favorite\r
+ extensions running, in spite of all the FUD about the new\r
+ Webextensions API.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by Tough Love ( 215404 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ >> It's not like a new page renderer is going to solve that.\r
+ > The point is to be synced up to the current Firefox\r
+ > codebase. Which by the way is awesome. I have all my\r
+ > favorite extensions running, in spite of all the FUD about\r
+ > the new Webextensions API.\r
+ Why would anybody mod that comment troll?\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by Tough Love ( 215404 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ It is FUD. Firefox's extension ecology is as vibrant\r
+ as ever, but far more secure. And if somebody\r
+ disagrees, they should do so instead of taking the\r
+ belly slither route.\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by theweatherelectric ( 2007596 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ You can use the built-in [1]Reader View\r
+ [mozilla.org] for a lot of pages, but it's not\r
+ available for all pages. It depends on the\r
+ page structure.\r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ [1]\r
+ https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-r-\r
+ eader-view-clutter-free-web-pages\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Tested today (Score:1)\r
+ (by Anonymous Coward)\r
+\r
+ \r
+ First impression is I like it. Video playback seems sluggish but\r
+ overall positive. Hopefully any NSA addons did not make the cut.\r
+\r
+ ** Who can afford to run a tor exit node ? (Score:4, Interesting)\r
+ (by dargaud ( 518470 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ I really wonder that. I support tor. I've never actually used it\r
+ because I don't have much to hide, but I understand that other\r
+ do. So I ran a tor relay (not exit) as my way of supporting the\r
+ project for a while; from my home adsl. After a while I noticed\r
+ some weird stuff going on. Some websites (important ones)\r
+ wouldn't load properly. Emails sent would bounce or simply never\r
+ reach their destination. After looking at the problem I found\r
+ that my IP was on some minor blacklists. I stopped the relay and\r
+ after 2 days I was off the blacklists. Hence my question, if\r
+ running a simple relay gets you blacklisted, what does running\r
+ an exit point does to your other internet usage from that IP ?\r
+ Who can afford separate IPs besides institutions ? So who is\r
+ really really running them ? Certainly not private citizens...\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3)\r
+ (by ftobin ( 48814 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ You can run something like a Linode instance pretty cheaply\r
+ and get more IPs. I've run a highly restricted exit node in\r
+ the past (low bandwidth, select ports), and I've had the same\r
+ problems with you if I try to use my Linode as a web proxy.\r
+ My most recent problem has been with Shut Up and Sit Down RSS\r
+ feeds, which are blocking my host :-\\r
+\r
+ ** Re:Who can afford to run a tor exit node ? (Score:4,\r
+ Informative)\r
+ (by tlhIngan ( 30335 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > You can run something like a Linode instance pretty\r
+ > cheaply and get more IPs. I've run a highly restricted\r
+ > exit node in the past (low bandwidth, select ports), and\r
+ > I've had the same problems with you if I try to use my\r
+ > Linode as a web proxy. My most recent problem has been\r
+ > with Shut Up and Sit Down RSS feeds, which are blocking my\r
+ > host :-\\r
+ And that's just because no matter how noble the cause,\r
+ idiots will just ruin it. You don't need a list of Tor\r
+ exit nodes because if you run a reasonably popular\r
+ website, you'll find out quite rapidly what they are and\r
+ auto-blacklist t hem.\r
+ It's why CDNs like CloudFlare block Tor - the abuse from\r
+ Tor exit nodes ensures that whatever trigger you use,\r
+ it'll be triggered and you'll end up blocking it. It's not\r
+ like it's done deliberately - you don't have to seek out\r
+ new Tor exit nodes. They just make themselves known.\r
+ I'd even venture to say if you want to allow Tor traffic,\r
+ you have to whitelist them specifically It's not that Tor\r
+ is bad, it's just that it's got a bunch of bad actors that\r
+ really do ruin it for those who need it.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by ftobin ( 48814 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > And that's just because no matter how noble the cause,\r
+ > idiots will just ruin it. You don't need a list of Tor\r
+ > exit nodes because if you run a reasonably popular\r
+ > website, you'll find out quite rapidly what they are\r
+ > and auto-blacklist t hem.\r
+ I should mention that I don't and never did allow\r
+ access on port 80 or 443, yet Shut up and Sit Down's\r
+ RSS feed blocks me. There is no way my host was causing\r
+ issues for their site, with the 20 KB/s of bandwidth I\r
+ allowed. Additionally, I only allowed ports like IRC,\r
+ DN\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by bill_mcgonigle ( 4333 ) *)\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Check out the Library Freedom Project.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by AHuxley ( 892839 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Governments.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by AHuxley ( 892839 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ NSA, CIA, GCHQ did not worry about anonymous communication.\r
+ Police with lots of cash per investigation at a national\r
+ level don't worry about anonymous communication anymore.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
--- /dev/null
+0Tor Browser Gets a Redesign, Switches To New Firefox Quantum Engine (zdnet.com) null/SLASHDOT/0102637536 70\r
+i Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (msmash)\r
+i from the for-the-record dept.\r
+i\r
+i The Tor Browser has rolled out a new interface with the\r
+i release of v8. From a report: The Tor Browser has always been\r
+i based on the Firefox codebase, but it lagged behind a few\r
+i releases. Mozilla rolled out a major overhaul of the Firefox\r
+i codebase in November 2017, with the release of Firefox 57, the\r
+i first release in the Firefox Quantum series. Firefox Quantum\r
+i came with a new page rendering engine, a new add-ons API, and\r
+i a new user interface called the Photon UI. Because these were\r
+i major, code-breaking changes, it took the smaller Tor team\r
+i some time to integrate all of them into the Tor Browser\r
+i codebase and make sure everything worked as intended. The new\r
+i Tor Browser 8, released yesterday, is now in sync with the\r
+i most recent version of Firefox, the Quantum release, and also\r
+i supports all of its features. This means the Tor Browser now\r
+i uses the same modern Photon UI that current Firefox versions\r
+i use, it supports the same speed-optimized page rendering\r
+i engine and has also dropped support for the old XUL-based\r
+i add-ons system for the new WebExtensions API system used by\r
+i Chrome, Opera, Vivaldi, Brave, and the rest of the Chromium\r
+i browsers.\r
+i\r
--- /dev/null
+<!DOCTYPE html>
+<html>
+<head>
+ <meta http-equiv='content-type' content='text/html; charset=utf-8'>
+ <meta name='viewport' content='width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0'>
+ <style type='text/css'>
+ body { margin: 1em 15%; }
+ </style>
+</head>
+<body>
+<div class='story-header'>
+ <h1><a href='0102637536.html'>Tor Browser Gets a Redesign, Switches To New Firefox Quantum Engine (zdnet.com)</a></h1>
+ <div class='details'>(Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (msmash)
+from the for-the-record dept.)</div>
+ <br/>
+ <div class='content' style='text-align: justify'>
+ The Tor Browser has rolled out a new interface with the release of v8. From a report: The Tor Browser has always been based on the Firefox codebase, but it lagged behind a few releases. Mozilla rolled out a major overhaul of the Firefox codebase in November 2017, with the release of Firefox 57, the first release in the Firefox Quantum series. Firefox Quantum came with a new page rendering engine, a new add-ons API, and a new user interface called the Photon UI. Because these were major, code-breaking changes, it took the smaller Tor team some time to integrate all of them into the Tor Browser codebase and make sure everything worked as intended. The new Tor Browser 8, released yesterday, is now in sync with the most recent version of Firefox, the Quantum release, and also supports all of its features. This means the Tor Browser now uses the same modern Photon UI that current Firefox versions use, it supports the same speed-optimized page rendering engine and has also dropped support for the old XUL-based add-ons system for the new WebExtensions API system used by Chrome, Opera, Vivaldi, Brave, and the rest of the Chromium browsers.
+ </div>
+<hr/>
+</div>
+</body>
--- /dev/null
+<!DOCTYPE html>
+<html>
+<head>
+ <meta http-equiv='content-type' content='text/html; charset=utf-8'>
+ <meta name='viewport' content='width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0'>
+ <style type='text/css'>
+ body { margin: 1em 15%; }
+ </style>
+</head>
+<body>
+<div class='story'>
+ <h1>Tor Browser Gets a Redesign, Switches To New Firefox Quantum Engine (zdnet.com)</h1>
+ <div class='details'>(Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (msmash)
+from the for-the-record dept.)</div>
+ <br/>
+ <ul>
+ <li>News link: <a href='https://yro.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1651255/tor-browser-gets-a-redesign-switches-to-new-firefox-quantum-engine'>https://yro.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1651255/tor-browser-gets-a-redesign-switches-to-new-firefox-quantum-engine</a></li>
+ <li>Source link: <a href='https://www.zdnet.com/article/tor-browser-gets-a-redesign-switches-to-new-firefox-quantum-engine/'>https://www.zdnet.com/article/tor-browser-gets-a-redesign-switches-to-new-firefox-quantum-engine/</a></li>
+ </ul>
+ <br/>
+ <div class='content' style='text-align: justify'>
+ The Tor Browser has rolled out a new interface with the release of v8. From a report: The Tor Browser has always been based on the Firefox codebase, but it lagged behind a few releases. Mozilla rolled out a major overhaul of the Firefox codebase in November 2017, with the release of Firefox 57, the first release in the Firefox Quantum series. Firefox Quantum came with a new page rendering engine, a new add-ons API, and a new user interface called the Photon UI. Because these were major, code-breaking changes, it took the smaller Tor team some time to integrate all of them into the Tor Browser codebase and make sure everything worked as intended. The new Tor Browser 8, released yesterday, is now in sync with the most recent version of Firefox, the Quantum release, and also supports all of its features. This means the Tor Browser now uses the same modern Photon UI that current Firefox versions use, it supports the same speed-optimized page rendering engine and has also dropped support for the old XUL-based add-ons system for the new WebExtensions API system used by Chrome, Opera, Vivaldi, Brave, and the rest of the Chromium browsers.
+ </div>
+<hr/>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: Isn't page render speed pretty irrelevant for (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Anonymous Coward</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Not when you have the assets already cached. Most people donâ(TM)t just visit a site once. I was playing with it this morning. Itâ(TM)s a decent speed improvement even within the restraints of tor</p><p>More impressively msmash posted an actual tech article not a biasedpolitical article for a change. Losing too many readers now I suspect</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:3, Insightful)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Tough Love ( 215404 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> It's not like a new page renderer is going to solve that.</p><p>The point is to be synced up to the current Firefox codebase. Which by the way is awesome. I have all my favorite extensions running, in spite of all the FUD about the new Webextensions API.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Tough Love ( 215404 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>>> It's not like a new page renderer is going to solve that.</p><p>> The point is to be synced up to the current Firefox codebase. Which by the way is awesome. I have all my favorite extensions running, in spite of all the FUD about the new Webextensions API.</p><p>Why would anybody mod that comment troll?</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Tough Love ( 215404 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>It is FUD. Firefox's extension ecology is as vibrant as ever, but far more secure. And if somebody disagrees, they should do so instead of taking the belly slither route.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by theweatherelectric ( 2007596 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>You can use the built-in [1]Reader View [mozilla.org] for a lot of pages, but it's not available for all pages. It depends on the page structure.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>[1] https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-reader-view-clutter-free-web-pages</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Tested today (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Anonymous Coward</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>First impression is I like it. Video playback seems sluggish but overall positive. Hopefully any NSA addons did not make the cut.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Who can afford to run a tor exit node ? (Score:4, Interesting)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by dargaud ( 518470 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>I really wonder that. I support tor. I've never actually used it because I don't have much to hide, but I understand that other do. So I ran a tor relay (not exit) as my way of supporting the project for a while; from my home adsl. After a while I noticed some weird stuff going on. Some websites (important ones) wouldn't load properly. Emails sent would bounce or simply never reach their destination. After looking at the problem I found that my IP was on some minor blacklists. I stopped the relay and after 2 days I was off the blacklists. Hence my question, if running a simple relay gets you blacklisted, what does running an exit point does to your other internet usage from that IP ? Who can afford separate IPs besides institutions ? So who is really really running them ? Certainly not private citizens...</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by ftobin ( 48814 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>You can run something like a Linode instance pretty cheaply and get more IPs. I've run a highly restricted exit node in the past (low bandwidth, select ports), and I've had the same problems with you if I try to use my Linode as a web proxy. My most recent problem has been with Shut Up and Sit Down RSS feeds, which are blocking my host :-\</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re:Who can afford to run a tor exit node ? (Score:4, Informative)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by tlhIngan ( 30335 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> You can run something like a Linode instance pretty cheaply and get more IPs. I've run a highly restricted exit node in the past (low bandwidth, select ports), and I've had the same problems with you if I try to use my Linode as a web proxy. My most recent problem has been with Shut Up and Sit Down RSS feeds, which are blocking my host :-\</p><p>And that's just because no matter how noble the cause, idiots will just ruin it. You don't need a list of Tor exit nodes because if you run a reasonably popular website, you'll find out quite rapidly what they are and auto-blacklist t hem.</p><p>It's why CDNs like CloudFlare block Tor - the abuse from Tor exit nodes ensures that whatever trigger you use, it'll be triggered and you'll end up blocking it. It's not like it's done deliberately - you don't have to seek out new Tor exit nodes. They just make themselves known.</p><p>I'd even venture to say if you want to allow Tor traffic, you have to whitelist them specifically It's not that Tor is bad, it's just that it's got a bunch of bad actors that really do ruin it for those who need it.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by ftobin ( 48814 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> And that's just because no matter how noble the cause, idiots will just ruin it. You don't need a list of Tor exit nodes because if you run a reasonably popular website, you'll find out quite rapidly what they are and auto-blacklist t hem.</p><p>I should mention that I don't and never did allow access on port 80 or 443, yet Shut up and Sit Down's RSS feed blocks me. There is no way my host was causing issues for their site, with the 20 KB/s of bandwidth I allowed. Additionally, I only allowed ports like IRC, DN</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by bill_mcgonigle ( 4333 ) *</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Check out the Library Freedom Project.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by AHuxley ( 892839 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Governments.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by AHuxley ( 892839 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>NSA, CIA, GCHQ did not worry about anonymous communication.</p><p>Police with lots of cash per investigation at a national level don't worry about anonymous communication anymore.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+</div>
+</body>
--- /dev/null
+ ROBOT BOAT SAILS INTO HISTORY BY FINISHING ATLANTIC CROSSING \r
+ (APNEWS.COM) \r
+\r
+ Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (msmash)\r
+ from the impressive-feat dept.\r
+\r
+ o News link: https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1719243/robot-boat-sails-into-history-by-finishing-atlantic-crossing\r
+ o Source link: https://www.apnews.com/f6d0e2a099684468873ab48966590ada\r
+\r
+\r
+ An anonymous reader writes: For the first time an autonomous\r
+ sailing robot has completed the Microtransat Challenge by\r
+ crossing the Atlantic from Newfoundland, Canada to Ireland.\r
+ The Microtransat has been running since 2010 and has seen 23\r
+ previous entries all fail to make it across. The successful\r
+ boat, SB Met was built by the Norwegian company Offshore\r
+ Sensing AS and is only 2 metres (6.5 ft) long. It completed\r
+ the crossing on August 26th, 79 days and 5000 km (3100 miles)\r
+ of sailing after departing Newfoundland on June 7th. Further\r
+ reading: A Fleet of Sailing Robots Sets Out To Quantify the\r
+ Oceans.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re:Hard to understand why this would be difficult (Score:4,\r
+ Informative)\r
+ (by arth1 ( 260657 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ You're a landlubber, I take it?\r
+ The Atlantic waves are quite an obstacle for a 2m boat.\r
+ Even drifting tar (and garbage) is a problem when you're that\r
+ small.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3, Funny)\r
+ (by Anonymous Coward)\r
+\r
+ \r
+ It is not that easy. If you just start sailing in a straight\r
+ line, you will end up many kilometers above the sea, which is\r
+ no good for a sail boat. If instead you point the boat\r
+ straight at the finish line, you'll be under water for most\r
+ of the trip. Again, not ideal for a sail boat. The earth is\r
+ not flat, you know.\r
+\r
+ ** Re:Hard to understand why this would be difficult\r
+ (Score:4, Funny)\r
+ (by Oswald McWeany ( 2428506 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ I've found a FLAT EARTH DENIER !\r
+ I bet you vaccinate your kids and don't believe in lizard\r
+ people either.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by gnick ( 1211984 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Flat Earth statistic: If gravity is caused by a flat\r
+ earth accelerating at g, it'll reach c after about 1\r
+ year (~354 days).\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by amorsen ( 7485 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > Flat Earth statistic: If gravity is caused by a flat\r
+ > earth accelerating at g, it'll reach c after about 1\r
+ > year (~354 days).\r
+ You are saying that as if it is a problem to hit C,\r
+ like it would be impossible to continue after 354\r
+ days. This is not the case. As long as you only care\r
+ about your own point of view and you're the one\r
+ being accelerated, you can reach as many times C as\r
+ you want (well, have fuel for).\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by gnick ( 1211984 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ You also have to decide what "at rest" means. A\r
+ year accelerating at g will put you at your\r
+ current velocity + c.\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by lokedhs ( 672255 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Would a flat earther believe in relativity\r
+ though? If simple geometry eludes them,\r
+ what would they do when being faced with a\r
+ Lorentz transformation?\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by lgw ( 121541 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > I've found a FLAT EARTH DENIER!\r
+ > I bet you vaccinate your kids and don't believe in\r
+ > lizard people either.\r
+ The earth is not flat - that's just silly. When we ent\r
+ to the moon, and we did go to the moon, we discovered\r
+ the terrifying truth. The MOON is flat!\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re:Hard to understand why this would be difficult (Score:4,\r
+ Insightful)\r
+ (by hey! ( 33014 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > There really aren't a lot of obstacles to deal with. Just\r
+ > point the boat and go.\r
+ I imagine that's true, if you have an effectively unlimited\r
+ energy, but the terms of this contest is to build a vehicle\r
+ less than eight feet long that can cross the Atlantic.\r
+ That's not a lot of room to stuff with batteries or diesel\r
+ fuel, or to cover with solar panels. And that's the whole\r
+ point. If you could make the vehicle a hundred feet long,\r
+ this challenge would be expensive, but easy. By making the\r
+ boat tiny, you make the challenge affordable, but tough.\r
+ The race has two divisions, sail powered and unlimited, but\r
+ it's hard to see what they had in mind for propulsion by\r
+ having an unlimited division. Possibly some\r
+ seawater-replenished fuel cell.\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Bottles with corks have traversed the Atlantic (Score:2)\r
+ (by aberglas ( 991072 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Being small means relative high strength. A solid two\r
+ meter boat should indestructible by waves. No need to\r
+ keep a human alive, nor to go very fast. A very basic,\r
+ fixed, small but strong sail would do.\r
+ Ice bergs could be a problem. Surely better to start\r
+ further south. Longer but safer. Also need to stay out\r
+ of shipping lanes.\r
+ I think this could be done without a computer. Just a\r
+ magnetic compass controlling a rudder. Occasionally it\r
+ would be blown backwards but no big deal. No need to\r
+ worry about po\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** KABLAM (Score:1)\r
+ (by fluffernutter ( 1411889 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ No concrete barriers in the ocean?\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by zlives ( 2009072 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ or pedestrians\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** A small achievement... (Score:2)\r
+ (by Bearhouse ( 1034238 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Sure the Atlantic can be a tough place, but 79 days?\r
+ Single-handed (human) record is 3 1/2 days...\r
+ [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]\r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transatlantic_sailing_record\r
+\r
+ ** Re:A small achievement... (Score:4, Informative)\r
+ (by careysub ( 976506 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ This is a 2 meter vessel, not a large racing hull built to be\r
+ fast (and nothing but fast). Using the page you link to, the\r
+ most useful comparison would be the single-handed records,\r
+ and the one from 1987 which was about 11.5 days was in a 26\r
+ meter hull! And this is the smallest vessel on the list. You\r
+ are probably not going to get a 2 meter vessel to tear along\r
+ at an average speed of 7.5 m/sec which would be needed for\r
+ that 11.5 day crossing.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3)\r
+ (by Solandri ( 704621 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ There have been a few sailboats in the 2 meter size range\r
+ which have made the transatlantic crossing.\r
+ \r
+ Hugo Vihlen aboard April Fool (1.8m) in 84 days in 1968,\r
+ though technically he never finished since he was picked\r
+ up by the USCG 6 miles offshore.\r
+ Tom MacNally aboard the Vera Hugh (1.64m) in 134 days in\r
+ 1993.\r
+ Hugo Vihlen again aboard the Father's Day (1.62m) in 115\r
+ days in 1993.\r
+ Tom MacNally unsuccessfully attempted the trip again\r
+ aboard a 1.19m craft in 1998. He passed away last year.\r
+ [1]Site with picture [microcruising.com]\r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ [1] http://www.microcruising.com/famoussmallboats.htm\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3)\r
+ (by careysub ( 976506 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Also note that the world speed record for a radio-controlled\r
+ sailing vessel (which was also 2 meters long) is [1]157.65 km\r
+ in 23 hours 42 min [guinnessworldrecords.com] in the milder\r
+ waters of the Mediterranean. At that world record speed in a\r
+ small RC boat this challenge would have taken 32 days.\r
+ So 79 days in a boat not controlled by a human, and not\r
+ limited to a 24 hour period, in the open waters of the\r
+ Atlantic is not so shabby. The speed made good over that\r
+ whole journey is 40% of that 24 hour record.\r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ [1]\r
+ http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/greatest-di-\r
+ stance-by-radio-controlled-model-sailing-ship-in-24-hours-(rc)\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3)\r
+ (by arth1 ( 260657 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > Sure the Atlantic can be a tough place, but 79 days?\r
+ The Mayflower took 66 days to cross, and was much bigger.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by zlives ( 2009072 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ shipping containers are more profitable.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** And now the jokes begin... (Score:1)\r
+ (by Jharish ( 101858 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ ..."I rowboat".\r
+ https://www.theonion.com/i-rowboat-1819583491\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by starless ( 60879 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Followed later by Cory Doctorow\r
+ [1]http://bestsciencefictionstori... [bestscienc...tories.com]\r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ [1]\r
+ http://bestsciencefictionstories.com/2009/03/29/i-row-boat-by-\r
+ cory-doctorow/\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Description wrong? Not autonomous? (Score:5, Informative)\r
+ (by starless ( 60879 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > For the first time an autonomous sailing robot...\r
+ From the linked article:\r
+ [1]https://www.apnews.com/f6d0e2a... [apnews.com]\r
+ > The Sailbuoy competed in the “unmanned” class, which allows\r
+ > operators to change its course along the way. There’s a separate\r
+ > “autonomous” class that prohibits any such communication.\r
+ >> \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ [1] https://www.apnews.com/f6d0e2a099684468873ab48966590ada\r
+\r
+ ** So you crossed the sea, Columbot (Score:1)\r
+ (by DulcetTone ( 601692 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Don't forget that indigenous robots have rights, too.\r
+\r
+\r
--- /dev/null
+0Robot Boat Sails Into History By Finishing Atlantic Crossing (apnews.com) null/SLASHDOT/0102637868 70\r
+i Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (msmash)\r
+i from the impressive-feat dept.\r
+i\r
+i An anonymous reader writes: For the first time an autonomous\r
+i sailing robot has completed the Microtransat Challenge by\r
+i crossing the Atlantic from Newfoundland, Canada to Ireland.\r
+i The Microtransat has been running since 2010 and has seen 23\r
+i previous entries all fail to make it across. The successful\r
+i boat, SB Met was built by the Norwegian company Offshore\r
+i Sensing AS and is only 2 metres (6.5 ft) long. It completed\r
+i the crossing on August 26th, 79 days and 5000 km (3100 miles)\r
+i of sailing after departing Newfoundland on June 7th. Further\r
+i reading: A Fleet of Sailing Robots Sets Out To Quantify the\r
+i Oceans.\r
+i\r
--- /dev/null
+<!DOCTYPE html>
+<html>
+<head>
+ <meta http-equiv='content-type' content='text/html; charset=utf-8'>
+ <meta name='viewport' content='width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0'>
+ <style type='text/css'>
+ body { margin: 1em 15%; }
+ </style>
+</head>
+<body>
+<div class='story-header'>
+ <h1><a href='0102637868.html'>Robot Boat Sails Into History By Finishing Atlantic Crossing (apnews.com)</a></h1>
+ <div class='details'>(Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (msmash)
+from the impressive-feat dept.)</div>
+ <br/>
+ <div class='content' style='text-align: justify'>
+ An anonymous reader writes: For the first time an autonomous sailing robot has completed the Microtransat Challenge by crossing the Atlantic from Newfoundland, Canada to Ireland. The Microtransat has been running since 2010 and has seen 23 previous entries all fail to make it across. The successful boat, SB Met was built by the Norwegian company Offshore Sensing AS and is only 2 metres (6.5 ft) long. It completed the crossing on August 26th, 79 days and 5000 km (3100 miles) of sailing after departing Newfoundland on June 7th. Further reading: A Fleet of Sailing Robots Sets Out To Quantify the Oceans.
+ </div>
+<hr/>
+</div>
+</body>
--- /dev/null
+<!DOCTYPE html>
+<html>
+<head>
+ <meta http-equiv='content-type' content='text/html; charset=utf-8'>
+ <meta name='viewport' content='width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0'>
+ <style type='text/css'>
+ body { margin: 1em 15%; }
+ </style>
+</head>
+<body>
+<div class='story'>
+ <h1>Robot Boat Sails Into History By Finishing Atlantic Crossing (apnews.com)</h1>
+ <div class='details'>(Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (msmash)
+from the impressive-feat dept.)</div>
+ <br/>
+ <ul>
+ <li>News link: <a href='https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1719243/robot-boat-sails-into-history-by-finishing-atlantic-crossing'>https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1719243/robot-boat-sails-into-history-by-finishing-atlantic-crossing</a></li>
+ <li>Source link: <a href='https://www.apnews.com/f6d0e2a099684468873ab48966590ada'>https://www.apnews.com/f6d0e2a099684468873ab48966590ada</a></li>
+ </ul>
+ <br/>
+ <div class='content' style='text-align: justify'>
+ An anonymous reader writes: For the first time an autonomous sailing robot has completed the Microtransat Challenge by crossing the Atlantic from Newfoundland, Canada to Ireland. The Microtransat has been running since 2010 and has seen 23 previous entries all fail to make it across. The successful boat, SB Met was built by the Norwegian company Offshore Sensing AS and is only 2 metres (6.5 ft) long. It completed the crossing on August 26th, 79 days and 5000 km (3100 miles) of sailing after departing Newfoundland on June 7th. Further reading: A Fleet of Sailing Robots Sets Out To Quantify the Oceans.
+ </div>
+<hr/>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re:Hard to understand why this would be difficult (Score:4, Informative)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by arth1 ( 260657 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>You're a landlubber, I take it?</p><p>The Atlantic waves are quite an obstacle for a 2m boat.</p><p>Even drifting tar (and garbage) is a problem when you're that small.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:3, Funny)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Anonymous Coward</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>It is not that easy. If you just start sailing in a straight line, you will end up many kilometers above the sea, which is no good for a sail boat. If instead you point the boat straight at the finish line, you'll be under water for most of the trip. Again, not ideal for a sail boat. The earth is not flat, you know.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re:Hard to understand why this would be difficult (Score:4, Funny)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Oswald McWeany ( 2428506 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>I've found a FLAT EARTH DENIER !</p><p>I bet you vaccinate your kids and don't believe in lizard people either.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by gnick ( 1211984 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Flat Earth statistic: If gravity is caused by a flat earth accelerating at g, it'll reach c after about 1 year (~354 days).</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by amorsen ( 7485 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> Flat Earth statistic: If gravity is caused by a flat earth accelerating at g, it'll reach c after about 1 year (~354 days).</p><p>You are saying that as if it is a problem to hit C, like it would be impossible to continue after 354 days. This is not the case. As long as you only care about your own point of view and you're the one being accelerated, you can reach as many times C as you want (well, have fuel for).</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by gnick ( 1211984 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>You also have to decide what "at rest" means. A year accelerating at g will put you at your current velocity + c.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by lokedhs ( 672255 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Would a flat earther believe in relativity though? If simple geometry eludes them, what would they do when being faced with a Lorentz transformation?</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by lgw ( 121541 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> I've found a FLAT EARTH DENIER!</p><p>> I bet you vaccinate your kids and don't believe in lizard people either.</p><p>The earth is not flat - that's just silly. When we ent to the moon, and we did go to the moon, we discovered the terrifying truth. The MOON is flat!</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re:Hard to understand why this would be difficult (Score:4, Insightful)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by hey! ( 33014 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> There really aren't a lot of obstacles to deal with. Just point the boat and go.</p><p>I imagine that's true, if you have an effectively unlimited energy, but the terms of this contest is to build a vehicle less than eight feet long that can cross the Atlantic.</p><p>That's not a lot of room to stuff with batteries or diesel fuel, or to cover with solar panels. And that's the whole point. If you could make the vehicle a hundred feet long, this challenge would be expensive, but easy. By making the boat tiny, you make the challenge affordable, but tough.</p><p>The race has two divisions, sail powered and unlimited, but it's hard to see what they had in mind for propulsion by having an unlimited division. Possibly some seawater-replenished fuel cell.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Bottles with corks have traversed the Atlantic (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by aberglas ( 991072 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Being small means relative high strength. A solid two meter boat should indestructible by waves. No need to keep a human alive, nor to go very fast. A very basic, fixed, small but strong sail would do.</p><p>Ice bergs could be a problem. Surely better to start further south. Longer but safer. Also need to stay out of shipping lanes.</p><p>I think this could be done without a computer. Just a magnetic compass controlling a rudder. Occasionally it would be blown backwards but no big deal. No need to worry about po</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>KABLAM (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by fluffernutter ( 1411889 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>No concrete barriers in the ocean?</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by zlives ( 2009072 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>or pedestrians</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>A small achievement... (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Bearhouse ( 1034238 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Sure the Atlantic can be a tough place, but 79 days?</p><p>Single-handed (human) record is 3 1/2 days...</p><p>[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transatlantic_sailing_record</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re:A small achievement... (Score:4, Informative)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by careysub ( 976506 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>This is a 2 meter vessel, not a large racing hull built to be fast (and nothing but fast). Using the page you link to, the most useful comparison would be the single-handed records, and the one from 1987 which was about 11.5 days was in a 26 meter hull! And this is the smallest vessel on the list. You are probably not going to get a 2 meter vessel to tear along at an average speed of 7.5 m/sec which would be needed for that 11.5 day crossing.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Solandri ( 704621 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>There have been a few sailboats in the 2 meter size range which have made the transatlantic crossing.</p><p></p><p>Hugo Vihlen aboard April Fool (1.8m) in 84 days in 1968, though technically he never finished since he was picked up by the USCG 6 miles offshore.</p><p>Tom MacNally aboard the Vera Hugh (1.64m) in 134 days in 1993.</p><p>Hugo Vihlen again aboard the Father's Day (1.62m) in 115 days in 1993.</p><p>Tom MacNally unsuccessfully attempted the trip again aboard a 1.19m craft in 1998. He passed away last year.</p><p>[1]Site with picture [microcruising.com]</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>[1] http://www.microcruising.com/famoussmallboats.htm</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by careysub ( 976506 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Also note that the world speed record for a radio-controlled sailing vessel (which was also 2 meters long) is [1]157.65 km in 23 hours 42 min [guinnessworldrecords.com] in the milder waters of the Mediterranean. At that world record speed in a small RC boat this challenge would have taken 32 days.</p><p>So 79 days in a boat not controlled by a human, and not limited to a 24 hour period, in the open waters of the Atlantic is not so shabby. The speed made good over that whole journey is 40% of that 24 hour record.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>[1] http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/greatest-distance-by-radio-controlled-model-sailing-ship-in-24-hours-(rc)</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by arth1 ( 260657 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> Sure the Atlantic can be a tough place, but 79 days?</p><p>The Mayflower took 66 days to cross, and was much bigger.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by zlives ( 2009072 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>shipping containers are more profitable.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>And now the jokes begin... (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Jharish ( 101858 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>..."I rowboat".</p><p>https://www.theonion.com/i-rowboat-1819583491</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by starless ( 60879 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Followed later by Cory Doctorow</p><p>[1]http://bestsciencefictionstori... [bestscienc...tories.com]</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>[1] http://bestsciencefictionstories.com/2009/03/29/i-row-boat-by-cory-doctorow/</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Description wrong? Not autonomous? (Score:5, Informative)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by starless ( 60879 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> For the first time an autonomous sailing robot...</p><p>From the linked article:</p><p>[1]https://www.apnews.com/f6d0e2a... [apnews.com]</p><p>> The Sailbuoy competed in the “unmanned” class, which allows operators to change its course along the way. There’s a separate “autonomous” class that prohibits any such communication.</p><p>>></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>[1] https://www.apnews.com/f6d0e2a099684468873ab48966590ada</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>So you crossed the sea, Columbot (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by DulcetTone ( 601692 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Don't forget that indigenous robots have rights, too.</p></div>
+ </div>
+</div>
+</body>
--- /dev/null
+ GOOGLE INVESTIGATING ISSUE WITH BLURRY FONTS ON NEW CHROME 69 \r
+ (ZDNET.COM) \r
+\r
+ Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (msmash)\r
+ from the blurry-texts dept.\r
+\r
+ o News link: https://tech.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1839242/google-investigating-issue-with-blurry-fonts-on-new-chrome-69\r
+ o Source link: https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-investigating-issue-with-blurry-fonts-on-new-chrome-69/\r
+\r
+\r
+ Since the release of Chrome 69 earlier this week, countless of\r
+ users have gone on social media and Google Product Forums to\r
+ complain about "blurry" or "fuzzy" text inside Chrome. ZDNet:\r
+ The blurred font issue isn't only limited to text rendered\r
+ inside a web page, users said, but also for the text\r
+ suggestions displayed inside the address bar search drop-down,\r
+ and Chrome's Developer Tools panel. [...] According to\r
+ reports, the issue only manifests for Chrome 69 users on\r
+ Windows. Those who rolled back to Chrome 68 stopped having\r
+ problems. Users said that changing Chrome, operating system,\r
+ or screen DPI settings didn't help. "Our team is investigating\r
+ reports of this behavior. You can find more information in\r
+ this public bug report," a Google spokesperson said last night\r
+ after first user complaints started surfacing online. Some\r
+ users have also expressed concerns over Chrome not showing\r
+ "trivial subdomains" including www and secure lock sign in the\r
+ address bar.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Whats the deal (Score:2)\r
+ (by 110010001000 ( 697113 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Whats the deal with the new interface. Looks like we are back to\r
+ rounded corners again.\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:1)\r
+ (by 110010001000 ( 697113 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ And what's the deal with decaf coffee? How do they get the\r
+ caffeine out of there, and then where does it go?\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:1)\r
+ (by Anonymous Coward)\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Why do they put caffeine in coffee and then take it\r
+ back out?\r
+ And why if Chrome rendering fonts in the first place?\r
+ That's a job for the operating system.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: Whats the deal (Score:2)\r
+ (by spongman ( 182339 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ dichloromethe (or ethyl acetate) leeching.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by DontBeAMoran ( 4843879 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Score: 5, That's gold Jerry, GOLD!\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** So Chrome 69 makes you blind? (Score:4, Funny)\r
+ (by the_skywise ( 189793 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ The jokes write themselves...\r
+\r
+ ** Blurry Fonts... (Score:2)\r
+ (by Oswald McWeany ( 2428506 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Maybe they need to put on their Google Glass so they can read\r
+ the fonts clearer.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3)\r
+ (by Z00L00K ( 682162 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ They just started to use Cleartype and the fuzzy fonts.\r
+ Both cleartype and fuzzy fonts gives me a headache so I have\r
+ to use uBlock to revert to the browser default when I run\r
+ Firefox.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** I bet you (Score:5, Insightful)\r
+ (by The MAZZTer ( 911996 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ If these are Windows users they screwed with the Compatibility\r
+ Mode options for DPI in order to make the window smaller or\r
+ bigger. It looked fine until Google did something differently\r
+ and now the Compatibility Mode options make it look blurry.\r
+ Turns out using options designed for use on legacy applications\r
+ only on modern applications introduces problems. Lots of Steam\r
+ users have similar problems.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by omnichad ( 1198475 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Wrong. I use the standard DPI settings for the whole screen\r
+ (1.5x on my 27" 4K screen), which only works with programs\r
+ that are DPI-aware. It's true that I didn't notice the blurry\r
+ fonts until I saw the headline, but I really just thought I\r
+ was that tired (I've only had 69 for about a day). At least\r
+ for me, it's fairly mild.\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by omnichad ( 1198475 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ If it looks significantly worse, it could also have\r
+ nothing at all to do with the bug - Chrome is DPI aware\r
+ and should never have that enabled. Especially since\r
+ the bug report doesn't have any mention of anything but\r
+ the system DPI setting.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by omnichad ( 1198475 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ So you like the way I word it (No Giggity).\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3)\r
+ (by Solandri ( 704621 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ The problem is there are three ways to tweak the DPI.\r
+ Compatibility Mode, which can be set on a per-app basis.\r
+ Display scaling, which is set via the Windows desktop and\r
+ affects everything. And Advanced Scaling which Microsoft\r
+ introduced with the Spring Creators Update, which I haven't\r
+ figured out exactly how it's different from the regular\r
+ Display Scaling.\r
+ \r
+ Under the hood, there's also ClearType which runs on top of\r
+ DPI scaling, and does [1]subpixel rendering [grc.com] (using\r
+ the individual red, green, and blue subp\r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ [1] https://www.grc.com/ctwhat.htm\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by omnichad ( 1198475 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Looking at some zoomed in screenshots, I think they're\r
+ scaling the subpixel rendering itself (which should never\r
+ happen). There is no reason to have red or blue tint on\r
+ anything but the outermost pixel, but looking at my\r
+ screenshot close up I'm seeing two side-by-side bluish or\r
+ reddish pixels.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by Scoth ( 879800 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Even on Chrome 69 on my multi-DPI work setup I have to turn\r
+ on the DPI scaling compatibility mode/override to not get\r
+ huge dialog boxes and widgets. It's a bit frustrating to me\r
+ that a currently supported, modern app would still have\r
+ problems with that.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by Ingenium13 ( 162116 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Nope, I have a Windows VM that's essentially stock that I use\r
+ for a couple applications. I had Chrome open in it earlier\r
+ today, and noticed that the fonts were blurry and were giving\r
+ me a headache after a few minutes of use. I thought maybe it\r
+ was something with RDP messing it up, but after I read this,\r
+ I logged in again and verified that the fuzzy fonts are only\r
+ in Chrome. All other applications are fine.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by greenwow ( 3635575 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ And most Windows apps. For most of our users on Windows 10,\r
+ Windows apps have blurry text no matter what settings we try.\r
+ That really sucks for developers that need to read a lot of\r
+ text.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: I bet you (Score:2)\r
+ (by spongman ( 182339 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ They don't?\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Not new (Score:2)\r
+ (by Tailhook ( 98486 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Chrome has been having this problem for certain desktop users\r
+ for a while now. There are workaround flags and whatnot. Just\r
+ another chronic quality problem in Chrome that never gets\r
+ fixed....\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:1)\r
+ (by MidSpeck ( 1516577 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ True. I had to disable "Accelerated 2D canvas" in order to\r
+ get the fuzziness to go away on mine on Chrome 68, which was\r
+ working just fine before that.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by Z34107 ( 925136 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Text wrapping is a "solved" problem, too, but you're still\r
+ doing it by hand for some reason.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** While they're at it (Score:2)\r
+ (by Pedestrianwolf ( 1591767 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ ..maybe they could also roll back all rounded rectangles they\r
+ added in v69. Everything is so round it feels like I designed it\r
+ in my basement.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3)\r
+ (by ArchieBunker ( 132337 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Chrome has a major UI re-design? Firefox is going to be\r
+ pulling some late nights to catch up!\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** It's also has performance regressions (Score:2)\r
+ (by Suren Enfiajyan ( 4600031 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ On my Lenovo G570 the latest chrome also has very high CPU usage\r
+ on [1]slither.io game [slither.io] and the game turns into a\r
+ slideshow in places with many snakes. Firefox 61 doesn't suffer\r
+ from the this problem, despite the fact that its slower almost\r
+ in any regard. But not this time.\r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ [1] http://slither.io/\r
+\r
+ ** BSOD (Score:2)\r
+ (by jimbrooking ( 1909170 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ After installing ALL pages I visit are pure black. No text or\r
+ graphics.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by jimbrooking ( 1909170 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Fix (Win 7 Home): Uninstall Chrome, delete all browsing date.\r
+ reinstall Chrome, be dazzled by the curviness.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Can someone summarize the linked article? (Score:4, Funny)\r
+ (by kaizendojo ( 956951 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ I upgraded and I can't read it.\r
+\r
+ ** See Jeff Probst ... (Score:2)\r
+ (by CaptainDork ( 3678879 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ ... about this.\r
+ I remember on Survivor®, back in the day, they had a "blurry\r
+ tit," problem.\r
+ They fixed that by disallowing exposed tits.\r
+ Google should remove the tits from their fonts.\r
+\r
+ ** trivial subdomain hiding (Score:2)\r
+ (by Zaiff Urgulbunger ( 591514 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ So this "trivial subdomain hiding" thing... it's a crap idea\r
+ right?\r
+\r
+ ** Here's my take as a Mac user (Score:2)\r
+ (by DontBeAMoran ( 4843879 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ First of all, I really hate these thin fonts. They may look neat\r
+ on hi-DPI displays but not everyone has one.\r
+ Secondly, the text on the left screen capture looks like it had\r
+ its pixels hammered to the nearest pixel, which is the typical\r
+ crappy-looking Microsoft anti-aliasing while the text on the\r
+ right looks like normal anti-aliased text to me.\r
+\r
+\r
--- /dev/null
+0Google Investigating Issue With Blurry Fonts on new Chrome 69 (zdnet.com) null/SLASHDOT/0102638976 70\r
+i Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (msmash)\r
+i from the blurry-texts dept.\r
+i\r
+i Since the release of Chrome 69 earlier this week, countless of\r
+i users have gone on social media and Google Product Forums to\r
+i complain about "blurry" or "fuzzy" text inside Chrome. ZDNet:\r
+i The blurred font issue isn't only limited to text rendered\r
+i inside a web page, users said, but also for the text\r
+i suggestions displayed inside the address bar search drop-down,\r
+i and Chrome's Developer Tools panel. [...] According to\r
+i reports, the issue only manifests for Chrome 69 users on\r
+i Windows. Those who rolled back to Chrome 68 stopped having\r
+i problems. Users said that changing Chrome, operating system,\r
+i or screen DPI settings didn't help. "Our team is investigating\r
+i reports of this behavior. You can find more information in\r
+i this public bug report," a Google spokesperson said last night\r
+i after first user complaints started surfacing online. Some\r
+i users have also expressed concerns over Chrome not showing\r
+i "trivial subdomains" including www and secure lock sign in the\r
+i address bar.\r
+i\r
--- /dev/null
+<!DOCTYPE html>
+<html>
+<head>
+ <meta http-equiv='content-type' content='text/html; charset=utf-8'>
+ <meta name='viewport' content='width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0'>
+ <style type='text/css'>
+ body { margin: 1em 15%; }
+ </style>
+</head>
+<body>
+<div class='story-header'>
+ <h1><a href='0102638976.html'>Google Investigating Issue With Blurry Fonts on new Chrome 69 (zdnet.com)</a></h1>
+ <div class='details'>(Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (msmash)
+from the blurry-texts dept.)</div>
+ <br/>
+ <div class='content' style='text-align: justify'>
+ Since the release of Chrome 69 earlier this week, countless of users have gone on social media and Google Product Forums to complain about "blurry" or "fuzzy" text inside Chrome. ZDNet: The blurred font issue isn't only limited to text rendered inside a web page, users said, but also for the text suggestions displayed inside the address bar search drop-down, and Chrome's Developer Tools panel. [...] According to reports, the issue only manifests for Chrome 69 users on Windows. Those who rolled back to Chrome 68 stopped having problems. Users said that changing Chrome, operating system, or screen DPI settings didn't help. "Our team is investigating reports of this behavior. You can find more information in this public bug report," a Google spokesperson said last night after first user complaints started surfacing online. Some users have also expressed concerns over Chrome not showing "trivial subdomains" including www and secure lock sign in the address bar.
+ </div>
+<hr/>
+</div>
+</body>
--- /dev/null
+<!DOCTYPE html>
+<html>
+<head>
+ <meta http-equiv='content-type' content='text/html; charset=utf-8'>
+ <meta name='viewport' content='width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0'>
+ <style type='text/css'>
+ body { margin: 1em 15%; }
+ </style>
+</head>
+<body>
+<div class='story'>
+ <h1>Google Investigating Issue With Blurry Fonts on new Chrome 69 (zdnet.com)</h1>
+ <div class='details'>(Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (msmash)
+from the blurry-texts dept.)</div>
+ <br/>
+ <ul>
+ <li>News link: <a href='https://tech.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1839242/google-investigating-issue-with-blurry-fonts-on-new-chrome-69'>https://tech.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1839242/google-investigating-issue-with-blurry-fonts-on-new-chrome-69</a></li>
+ <li>Source link: <a href='https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-investigating-issue-with-blurry-fonts-on-new-chrome-69/'>https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-investigating-issue-with-blurry-fonts-on-new-chrome-69/</a></li>
+ </ul>
+ <br/>
+ <div class='content' style='text-align: justify'>
+ Since the release of Chrome 69 earlier this week, countless of users have gone on social media and Google Product Forums to complain about "blurry" or "fuzzy" text inside Chrome. ZDNet: The blurred font issue isn't only limited to text rendered inside a web page, users said, but also for the text suggestions displayed inside the address bar search drop-down, and Chrome's Developer Tools panel. [...] According to reports, the issue only manifests for Chrome 69 users on Windows. Those who rolled back to Chrome 68 stopped having problems. Users said that changing Chrome, operating system, or screen DPI settings didn't help. "Our team is investigating reports of this behavior. You can find more information in this public bug report," a Google spokesperson said last night after first user complaints started surfacing online. Some users have also expressed concerns over Chrome not showing "trivial subdomains" including www and secure lock sign in the address bar.
+ </div>
+<hr/>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Whats the deal (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by 110010001000 ( 697113 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Whats the deal with the new interface. Looks like we are back to rounded corners again.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by 110010001000 ( 697113 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>And what's the deal with decaf coffee? How do they get the caffeine out of there, and then where does it go?</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Anonymous Coward</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Why do they put caffeine in coffee and then take it back out?</p><p>And why if Chrome rendering fonts in the first place? That's a job for the operating system.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: Whats the deal (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by spongman ( 182339 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>dichloromethe (or ethyl acetate) leeching.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by DontBeAMoran ( 4843879 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Score: 5, That's gold Jerry, GOLD!</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>So Chrome 69 makes you blind? (Score:4, Funny)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by the_skywise ( 189793 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>The jokes write themselves...</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Blurry Fonts... (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Oswald McWeany ( 2428506 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Maybe they need to put on their Google Glass so they can read the fonts clearer.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Z00L00K ( 682162 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>They just started to use Cleartype and the fuzzy fonts.</p><p>Both cleartype and fuzzy fonts gives me a headache so I have to use uBlock to revert to the browser default when I run Firefox.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>I bet you (Score:5, Insightful)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by The MAZZTer ( 911996 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>If these are Windows users they screwed with the Compatibility Mode options for DPI in order to make the window smaller or bigger. It looked fine until Google did something differently and now the Compatibility Mode options make it look blurry. Turns out using options designed for use on legacy applications only on modern applications introduces problems. Lots of Steam users have similar problems.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by omnichad ( 1198475 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Wrong. I use the standard DPI settings for the whole screen (1.5x on my 27" 4K screen), which only works with programs that are DPI-aware. It's true that I didn't notice the blurry fonts until I saw the headline, but I really just thought I was that tired (I've only had 69 for about a day). At least for me, it's fairly mild.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by omnichad ( 1198475 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>If it looks significantly worse, it could also have nothing at all to do with the bug - Chrome is DPI aware and should never have that enabled. Especially since the bug report doesn't have any mention of anything but the system DPI setting.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by omnichad ( 1198475 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>So you like the way I word it (No Giggity).</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Solandri ( 704621 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>The problem is there are three ways to tweak the DPI. Compatibility Mode, which can be set on a per-app basis. Display scaling, which is set via the Windows desktop and affects everything. And Advanced Scaling which Microsoft introduced with the Spring Creators Update, which I haven't figured out exactly how it's different from the regular Display Scaling.</p><p></p><p>Under the hood, there's also ClearType which runs on top of DPI scaling, and does [1]subpixel rendering [grc.com] (using the individual red, green, and blue subp</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>[1] https://www.grc.com/ctwhat.htm</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by omnichad ( 1198475 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Looking at some zoomed in screenshots, I think they're scaling the subpixel rendering itself (which should never happen). There is no reason to have red or blue tint on anything but the outermost pixel, but looking at my screenshot close up I'm seeing two side-by-side bluish or reddish pixels.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Scoth ( 879800 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Even on Chrome 69 on my multi-DPI work setup I have to turn on the DPI scaling compatibility mode/override to not get huge dialog boxes and widgets. It's a bit frustrating to me that a currently supported, modern app would still have problems with that.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Ingenium13 ( 162116 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Nope, I have a Windows VM that's essentially stock that I use for a couple applications. I had Chrome open in it earlier today, and noticed that the fonts were blurry and were giving me a headache after a few minutes of use. I thought maybe it was something with RDP messing it up, but after I read this, I logged in again and verified that the fuzzy fonts are only in Chrome. All other applications are fine.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by greenwow ( 3635575 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>And most Windows apps. For most of our users on Windows 10, Windows apps have blurry text no matter what settings we try. That really sucks for developers that need to read a lot of text.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: I bet you (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by spongman ( 182339 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>They don't?</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Not new (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Tailhook ( 98486 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Chrome has been having this problem for certain desktop users for a while now. There are workaround flags and whatnot. Just another chronic quality problem in Chrome that never gets fixed....</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by MidSpeck ( 1516577 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>True. I had to disable "Accelerated 2D canvas" in order to get the fuzziness to go away on mine on Chrome 68, which was working just fine before that.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Z34107 ( 925136 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Text wrapping is a "solved" problem, too, but you're still doing it by hand for some reason.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>While they're at it (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Pedestrianwolf ( 1591767 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>..maybe they could also roll back all rounded rectangles they added in v69. Everything is so round it feels like I designed it in my basement.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by ArchieBunker ( 132337 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Chrome has a major UI re-design? Firefox is going to be pulling some late nights to catch up!</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>It's also has performance regressions (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Suren Enfiajyan ( 4600031 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>On my Lenovo G570 the latest chrome also has very high CPU usage on [1]slither.io game [slither.io] and the game turns into a slideshow in places with many snakes. Firefox 61 doesn't suffer from the this problem, despite the fact that its slower almost in any regard. But not this time.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>[1] http://slither.io/</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>BSOD (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by jimbrooking ( 1909170 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>After installing ALL pages I visit are pure black. No text or graphics.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by jimbrooking ( 1909170 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Fix (Win 7 Home): Uninstall Chrome, delete all browsing date. reinstall Chrome, be dazzled by the curviness.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Can someone summarize the linked article? (Score:4, Funny)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by kaizendojo ( 956951 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>I upgraded and I can't read it.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>See Jeff Probst ... (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by CaptainDork ( 3678879 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>... about this.</p><p>I remember on Survivor®, back in the day, they had a "blurry tit," problem.</p><p>They fixed that by disallowing exposed tits.</p><p>Google should remove the tits from their fonts.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>trivial subdomain hiding (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Zaiff Urgulbunger ( 591514 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>So this "trivial subdomain hiding" thing... it's a crap idea right?</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Here's my take as a Mac user (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by DontBeAMoran ( 4843879 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>First of all, I really hate these thin fonts. They may look neat on hi-DPI displays but not everyone has one.</p><p>Secondly, the text on the left screen capture looks like it had its pixels hammered to the nearest pixel, which is the typical crappy-looking Microsoft anti-aliasing while the text on the right looks like normal anti-aliased text to me.</p></div>
+ </div>
+</div>
+</body>
--- /dev/null
+ 'EVE ONLINE' STUDIO ACQUIRED BY KOREAN MMO MAKER (ENGADGET.COM) \r
+\r
+ Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (msmash)\r
+ from the in-some-business-news dept.\r
+\r
+ o News link: https://games.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1921222/eve-online-studio-acquired-by-korean-mmo-maker\r
+ o Source link: https://www.engadget.com/2018/09/06/eve-online-pearl-abyss-ccp-games/\r
+\r
+\r
+ MAXOMENOS writes: EVE Online developer CCP Games has been\r
+ acquired by Pearl Abyss, the South Korean studio behind the\r
+ action-oriented MMORPG Black Desert Online. According to\r
+ VentureBeat, the deal was worth $425 million and will close in\r
+ early October. It's a surprise announcement for CCP, which has\r
+ long operated as an independent developer. Eve Online isn't\r
+ the biggest MMORPG on the market, but it has maintained a\r
+ steady and loyal userbase through continuous updates and a\r
+ well-timed switch to a hybrid premium and free-to-play model.\r
+ The 15-year-old game is unique, too, with its large-scale\r
+ battles and notoriously complex economic and political\r
+ systems.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** RIP Eve (Score:3)\r
+ (by spiritplumber ( 1944222 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Now watch the new owners completely misunderstand the userbase's\r
+ culture and wreck a good thing.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3)\r
+ (by sinij ( 911942 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ If someone could make EVE more grindy, it would be a Korean\r
+ MMO maker. I don't see them misunderstanding that aspect, as\r
+ they invented Korean Grinder.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3)\r
+ (by duke_cheetah2003 ( 862933 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > Now watch the new owners completely misunderstand the\r
+ > userbase's culture and wreck a good thing.\r
+ CCP already did that years ago.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:1)\r
+ (by Anonymous Coward)\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Son, if Koreans will do anything it's inject sexy alien\r
+ women and bikini-space-armor into it.\r
+ East Asia never suffered the retardation of puritanism,\r
+ which is unique to the Western world owing to Abrahamic\r
+ doctrine, to develop Gymnophobia and Genophobia, so they\r
+ don't care about the Church-Feminist anti-sexualization\r
+ offense alliance. The only exception are the "Communist"\r
+ governments there.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by jeff4747 ( 256583 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ It's almost like you don't know there's already Korean and\r
+ Chinese alliances in Eve.......and they're not doing all\r
+ that well. I'm sure FRT will stop feeding Keepstars soon.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3)\r
+ (by St.Creed ( 853824 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ It was bad in the beta and never actually recovered from\r
+ some pretty bad development choices. Have they discovered\r
+ parallel processing yet? And version management? Okay, I\r
+ guess the last one was a bit mean. They must have\r
+ discovered Git by now.\r
+ But seriously, the game is an unstructured mess. Played it\r
+ for a while, flew a Machariel and did incursions, level 4\r
+ missions etc. but after a while it got boring. May pick it\r
+ up again though.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Not Good News (Score:4, Interesting)\r
+ (by Kunedog ( 1033226 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Shamus Young has a series on Black Desert, explaining how\r
+ shockingly aggressive, expensive and game-ruining he found the\r
+ microtransactions system to be, even if you're familiar with the\r
+ worst of the American systems. There's manadatory PvP and\r
+ deliberately cramped inventory space but the "cash shop" can\r
+ always make things better (i.e. playable).\r
+ \r
+ I'd be worried if I were an EVE Online fan.\r
+ \r
+ [1]https://www.shamusyoung.com/tw... [shamusyoung.com]\r
+ > I see all the default clothes are bland and I need to pay real\r
+ > money for a cool outfit. Aesthetics are important to me. (Which\r
+ > is why I spend so much time on sculpting my character.) So I\r
+ > really don’t want to spend the rest of my time looking at these\r
+ > blando outfits. Sigh. Fine. What’s a pretend suit of armor cost\r
+ > these days? Three bucks? Five bucks?\r
+ > \r
+ > FORTY SIX AMERICAN DOLLARS? ARE YOU TRYING TO START A FIGHT?\r
+ > The cheap outfits can be had for $22. They also offer ladies\r
+ > underwear sets for just $7, if you want to run around in your\r
+ > underpants. (I don’t, thanks.)\r
+ > \r
+ > (They also offer similar options for male characters. I was\r
+ > tempted to get the outfit that would let my kung-fu guy go\r
+ > shirtless, because he’s a kung-fu dude. But all of the choices\r
+ > looked like modern-day boxers. You can’t just wear baggy pants\r
+ > with no shirt.)\r
+ > \r
+ > Would you like to dye that super-expensive outfit you just\r
+ > bought? Or any other outfit? That will set you back another $10.\r
+ > And that’s somehow a rental. Your ten bucks gets you a month of\r
+ > being allowed to have dyed clothes. After the month is up, your\r
+ > clothes revert to their original colors and you gotta fork over\r
+ > another $10.\r
+ > Do you enjoy wheeling and dealing at the auction house in other\r
+ > games, but the egregious 35% tax on all your sales is making it\r
+ > impossible for you to have fun or turn a profit? Pay fifteen\r
+ > real-world dollars and the tax will go down to the normal 5%.\r
+ > (For one month.)\r
+ > \r
+ > Everything is exorbitantly priced like this. It’s so\r
+ > outrageously expensive that I get immediately pissed off. It’s\r
+ > not even about the money, it’s about the sheer audacity of the\r
+ > seller to ask this much[2] for what should be trivial virtual\r
+ > goods. Even if you’re a millionaire, you’re still likely to get\r
+ > offended if someone tries to sell you a stick of ordinary gum\r
+ > for five bucks.\r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ [1] https://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=42507\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3, Interesting)\r
+ (by Anonymous Coward)\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > Everything is exorbitantly priced like this. It’s so\r
+ > outrageously expensive that I get immediately pissed off.\r
+ > It’s not even about the money, it’s about the sheer audacity\r
+ > of the seller to ask this much for what should be trivial\r
+ > virtual goods. Even if you’re a millionaire, you’re still\r
+ > likely to get offended if someone tries to sell you a stick\r
+ > of ordinary gum for five bucks.\r
+ Sometimes, I thought Stallman was being a pendant for gripes\r
+ about terminology like "intellectual property".\r
+ Now I realize he was exactly right.\r
+ This guy uses the words "virtual goods", like it's something\r
+ he'll actually own. Dollars to donuts, the EULA and TOS says\r
+ these 'virtual goods' are nothing more than bits on their\r
+ server, you don't own a single bit of it, and they do\r
+ whatever they like, and fuck you we're keeping your money if\r
+ you don't like it.\r
+ Seriously, this should be a legal term. If your company\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by Calydor ( 739835 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Remember when they wanted to make players PAY for mods for\r
+ Skyrim?\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by JustAnotherOldGuy ( 4145623 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ $46 for a suit of armor?\r
+ If I ever had any interest in playing Eve*, this pricing\r
+ would instantly cure me of that notion.\r
+ *Which I don't, but still...\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Eve + Korean MMO + Pay To Win (Score:2)\r
+ (by Crashmarik ( 635988 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ If that isn't a match made in hell I don't know what is.\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by MAXOMENOS ( 9802 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ ....if they can only get out of beta......\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by blackomegax ( 807080 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ The current beta is 3 moons, 2 stations, and a shitty\r
+ framework of a "game" that runs at 10fps on a GTX1060\r
+ at low settings and looks 5x worse than games like doom\r
+ or E:D.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by St.Creed ( 853824 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ They're not even in Alpha. They call it that, but\r
+ what it actually is, is "perpetual development\r
+ hell". It doesn't have a version number but if it\r
+ had, it would be 666.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Why didn't microsoft acquire it? (Score:3)\r
+ (by xxxJonBoyxxx ( 565205 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Since its unofficial tagline is, ya know, "spreadsheet online"\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by JustAnotherOldGuy ( 4145623 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ It's also known as "Spreadsheet Simulator".\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by meglon ( 1001833 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ But...it's a really pretty spreadsheet.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by ctilsie242 ( 4841247 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Makes me wonder too. I wonder if White Wolf would be sold off\r
+ (likely) or spun off (unlikely, but would be nicer). My fear\r
+ is that it gets tossed to some big company, and the IP\r
+ completely shelved, never to see the light of day again,\r
+ similar to how EA has done with a lot of Origin IP.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by jeff4747 ( 256583 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ CCP was making a World of Darkness MMO, but canceled the\r
+ project a few years ago. I think they sold the IP.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Only half a billion? (Score:2)\r
+ (by beheaderaswp ( 549877 ) *)\r
+\r
+ \r
+ My god... that number is kinda high...\r
+ That aside... this new owner will just accentuate the problem\r
+ areas of Eve that kept it from truly meeting it's potential.\r
+ As it is, it's already a griefing sandbox with little wiggle\r
+ room for anything except PVP and/or massive corporate/alliance\r
+ industry or fleet ops. When it could be far more balanced and\r
+ appeal to a larger player base.\r
+ Pushing it further into "gang warfare" style griefing will\r
+ eventually make the player base smaller.\r
+ I stopped playing in 2016. So I play\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3)\r
+ (by Luckyo ( 1726890 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Your description of events is the exact opposite of your\r
+ conclusion. It sounds like EVE has in fact achieved\r
+ greatness, because the process you describe functions exactly\r
+ like real world functions on macro level.\r
+ The fact that they apparently managed to recreated the world\r
+ on macro level in a game through long standing player\r
+ interactions in less than two decades is mind blowingly\r
+ amazing.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by St.Creed ( 853824 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ And indeed, a subject of economic studies. Pretty\r
+ brilliant work in that respect. Whether it's successful as\r
+ an enjoyable game is something else entirely.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by Luckyo ( 1726890 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Not economic. Political. This is literally the core\r
+ tenets of concept of sovereignty. Economy is just a\r
+ part of the picture here.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Eve Online New addon will contain loot boxes (Score:2)\r
+ (by Cito ( 1725214 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ No more expansion packs but eve online will offer season passes\r
+ at 4 different tier prices; standard, deluxe edition, legacy and\r
+ ultimate edition.\r
+\r
+ ** Also known as (Score:2)\r
+ (by JustAnotherOldGuy ( 4145623 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ "Eve Online", also affectionately known as "Spreadsheet\r
+ Simulator".\r
+\r
+ ** made me laugh (Score:2)\r
+ (by meglon ( 1001833 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > Eve Online isn't the biggest MMORPG on the market\r
+ In other news: water is wet, and the sky is blue.\r
+\r
+\r
--- /dev/null
+0'Eve Online' Studio Acquired By Korean MMO Maker (engadget.com) null/SLASHDOT/0102639448 70\r
+i Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (msmash)\r
+i from the in-some-business-news dept.\r
+i\r
+i MAXOMENOS writes: EVE Online developer CCP Games has been\r
+i acquired by Pearl Abyss, the South Korean studio behind the\r
+i action-oriented MMORPG Black Desert Online. According to\r
+i VentureBeat, the deal was worth $425 million and will close in\r
+i early October. It's a surprise announcement for CCP, which has\r
+i long operated as an independent developer. Eve Online isn't\r
+i the biggest MMORPG on the market, but it has maintained a\r
+i steady and loyal userbase through continuous updates and a\r
+i well-timed switch to a hybrid premium and free-to-play model.\r
+i The 15-year-old game is unique, too, with its large-scale\r
+i battles and notoriously complex economic and political\r
+i systems.\r
+i\r
--- /dev/null
+<!DOCTYPE html>
+<html>
+<head>
+ <meta http-equiv='content-type' content='text/html; charset=utf-8'>
+ <meta name='viewport' content='width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0'>
+ <style type='text/css'>
+ body { margin: 1em 15%; }
+ </style>
+</head>
+<body>
+<div class='story-header'>
+ <h1><a href='0102639448.html'>'Eve Online' Studio Acquired By Korean MMO Maker (engadget.com)</a></h1>
+ <div class='details'>(Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (msmash)
+from the in-some-business-news dept.)</div>
+ <br/>
+ <div class='content' style='text-align: justify'>
+ MAXOMENOS writes: EVE Online developer CCP Games has been acquired by Pearl Abyss, the South Korean studio behind the action-oriented MMORPG Black Desert Online. According to VentureBeat, the deal was worth $425 million and will close in early October. It's a surprise announcement for CCP, which has long operated as an independent developer. Eve Online isn't the biggest MMORPG on the market, but it has maintained a steady and loyal userbase through continuous updates and a well-timed switch to a hybrid premium and free-to-play model. The 15-year-old game is unique, too, with its large-scale battles and notoriously complex economic and political systems.
+ </div>
+<hr/>
+</div>
+</body>
--- /dev/null
+<!DOCTYPE html>
+<html>
+<head>
+ <meta http-equiv='content-type' content='text/html; charset=utf-8'>
+ <meta name='viewport' content='width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0'>
+ <style type='text/css'>
+ body { margin: 1em 15%; }
+ </style>
+</head>
+<body>
+<div class='story'>
+ <h1>'Eve Online' Studio Acquired By Korean MMO Maker (engadget.com)</h1>
+ <div class='details'>(Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (msmash)
+from the in-some-business-news dept.)</div>
+ <br/>
+ <ul>
+ <li>News link: <a href='https://games.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1921222/eve-online-studio-acquired-by-korean-mmo-maker'>https://games.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1921222/eve-online-studio-acquired-by-korean-mmo-maker</a></li>
+ <li>Source link: <a href='https://www.engadget.com/2018/09/06/eve-online-pearl-abyss-ccp-games/'>https://www.engadget.com/2018/09/06/eve-online-pearl-abyss-ccp-games/</a></li>
+ </ul>
+ <br/>
+ <div class='content' style='text-align: justify'>
+ MAXOMENOS writes: EVE Online developer CCP Games has been acquired by Pearl Abyss, the South Korean studio behind the action-oriented MMORPG Black Desert Online. According to VentureBeat, the deal was worth $425 million and will close in early October. It's a surprise announcement for CCP, which has long operated as an independent developer. Eve Online isn't the biggest MMORPG on the market, but it has maintained a steady and loyal userbase through continuous updates and a well-timed switch to a hybrid premium and free-to-play model. The 15-year-old game is unique, too, with its large-scale battles and notoriously complex economic and political systems.
+ </div>
+<hr/>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>RIP Eve (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by spiritplumber ( 1944222 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Now watch the new owners completely misunderstand the userbase's culture and wreck a good thing.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by sinij ( 911942 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>If someone could make EVE more grindy, it would be a Korean MMO maker. I don't see them misunderstanding that aspect, as they invented Korean Grinder.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by duke_cheetah2003 ( 862933 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> Now watch the new owners completely misunderstand the userbase's culture and wreck a good thing.</p><p>CCP already did that years ago.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Anonymous Coward</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Son, if Koreans will do anything it's inject sexy alien women and bikini-space-armor into it.</p><p>East Asia never suffered the retardation of puritanism, which is unique to the Western world owing to Abrahamic doctrine, to develop Gymnophobia and Genophobia, so they don't care about the Church-Feminist anti-sexualization offense alliance. The only exception are the "Communist" governments there.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by jeff4747 ( 256583 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>It's almost like you don't know there's already Korean and Chinese alliances in Eve.......and they're not doing all that well. I'm sure FRT will stop feeding Keepstars soon.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by St.Creed ( 853824 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>It was bad in the beta and never actually recovered from some pretty bad development choices. Have they discovered parallel processing yet? And version management? Okay, I guess the last one was a bit mean. They must have discovered Git by now.</p><p>But seriously, the game is an unstructured mess. Played it for a while, flew a Machariel and did incursions, level 4 missions etc. but after a while it got boring. May pick it up again though.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Not Good News (Score:4, Interesting)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Kunedog ( 1033226 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Shamus Young has a series on Black Desert, explaining how shockingly aggressive, expensive and game-ruining he found the microtransactions system to be, even if you're familiar with the worst of the American systems. There's manadatory PvP and deliberately cramped inventory space but the "cash shop" can always make things better (i.e. playable).</p><p></p><p>I'd be worried if I were an EVE Online fan.</p><p></p><p>[1]https://www.shamusyoung.com/tw... [shamusyoung.com]</p><p>> I see all the default clothes are bland and I need to pay real money for a cool outfit. Aesthetics are important to me. (Which is why I spend so much time on sculpting my character.) So I really don’t want to spend the rest of my time looking at these blando outfits. Sigh. Fine. What’s a pretend suit of armor cost these days? Three bucks? Five bucks?</p><p>></p><p>> FORTY SIX AMERICAN DOLLARS? ARE YOU TRYING TO START A FIGHT?</p><p>> The cheap outfits can be had for $22. They also offer ladies underwear sets for just $7, if you want to run around in your underpants. (I don’t, thanks.)</p><p>></p><p>> (They also offer similar options for male characters. I was tempted to get the outfit that would let my kung-fu guy go shirtless, because he’s a kung-fu dude. But all of the choices looked like modern-day boxers. You can’t just wear baggy pants with no shirt.)</p><p>></p><p>> Would you like to dye that super-expensive outfit you just bought? Or any other outfit? That will set you back another $10. And that’s somehow a rental. Your ten bucks gets you a month of being allowed to have dyed clothes. After the month is up, your clothes revert to their original colors and you gotta fork over another $10.</p><p>> Do you enjoy wheeling and dealing at the auction house in other games, but the egregious 35% tax on all your sales is making it impossible for you to have fun or turn a profit? Pay fifteen real-world dollars and the tax will go down to the normal 5%. (For one month.)</p><p>></p><p>> Everything is exorbitantly priced like this. It’s so outrageously expensive that I get immediately pissed off. It’s not even about the money, it’s about the sheer audacity of the seller to ask this much[2] for what should be trivial virtual goods. Even if you’re a millionaire, you’re still likely to get offended if someone tries to sell you a stick of ordinary gum for five bucks.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>[1] https://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=42507</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:3, Interesting)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Anonymous Coward</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> Everything is exorbitantly priced like this. It’s so outrageously expensive that I get immediately pissed off. It’s not even about the money, it’s about the sheer audacity of the seller to ask this much for what should be trivial virtual goods. Even if you’re a millionaire, you’re still likely to get offended if someone tries to sell you a stick of ordinary gum for five bucks.</p><p>Sometimes, I thought Stallman was being a pendant for gripes about terminology like "intellectual property".</p><p>Now I realize he was exactly right.</p><p>This guy uses the words "virtual goods", like it's something he'll actually own. Dollars to donuts, the EULA and TOS says these 'virtual goods' are nothing more than bits on their server, you don't own a single bit of it, and they do whatever they like, and fuck you we're keeping your money if you don't like it.</p><p>Seriously, this should be a legal term. If your company</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Calydor ( 739835 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Remember when they wanted to make players PAY for mods for Skyrim?</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by JustAnotherOldGuy ( 4145623 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>$46 for a suit of armor?</p><p>If I ever had any interest in playing Eve*, this pricing would instantly cure me of that notion.</p><p>*Which I don't, but still...</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Eve + Korean MMO + Pay To Win (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Crashmarik ( 635988 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>If that isn't a match made in hell I don't know what is.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by MAXOMENOS ( 9802 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>....if they can only get out of beta......</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by blackomegax ( 807080 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>The current beta is 3 moons, 2 stations, and a shitty framework of a "game" that runs at 10fps on a GTX1060 at low settings and looks 5x worse than games like doom or E:D.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by St.Creed ( 853824 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>They're not even in Alpha. They call it that, but what it actually is, is "perpetual development hell". It doesn't have a version number but if it had, it would be 666.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Why didn't microsoft acquire it? (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by xxxJonBoyxxx ( 565205 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Since its unofficial tagline is, ya know, "spreadsheet online"</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by JustAnotherOldGuy ( 4145623 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>It's also known as "Spreadsheet Simulator".</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by meglon ( 1001833 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>But...it's a really pretty spreadsheet.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by ctilsie242 ( 4841247 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Makes me wonder too. I wonder if White Wolf would be sold off (likely) or spun off (unlikely, but would be nicer). My fear is that it gets tossed to some big company, and the IP completely shelved, never to see the light of day again, similar to how EA has done with a lot of Origin IP.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by jeff4747 ( 256583 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>CCP was making a World of Darkness MMO, but canceled the project a few years ago. I think they sold the IP.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Only half a billion? (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by beheaderaswp ( 549877 ) *</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>My god... that number is kinda high...</p><p>That aside... this new owner will just accentuate the problem areas of Eve that kept it from truly meeting it's potential.</p><p>As it is, it's already a griefing sandbox with little wiggle room for anything except PVP and/or massive corporate/alliance industry or fleet ops. When it could be far more balanced and appeal to a larger player base.</p><p>Pushing it further into "gang warfare" style griefing will eventually make the player base smaller.</p><p>I stopped playing in 2016. So I play</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Luckyo ( 1726890 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Your description of events is the exact opposite of your conclusion. It sounds like EVE has in fact achieved greatness, because the process you describe functions exactly like real world functions on macro level.</p><p>The fact that they apparently managed to recreated the world on macro level in a game through long standing player interactions in less than two decades is mind blowingly amazing.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by St.Creed ( 853824 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>And indeed, a subject of economic studies. Pretty brilliant work in that respect. Whether it's successful as an enjoyable game is something else entirely.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Luckyo ( 1726890 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Not economic. Political. This is literally the core tenets of concept of sovereignty. Economy is just a part of the picture here.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Eve Online New addon will contain loot boxes (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Cito ( 1725214 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>No more expansion packs but eve online will offer season passes at 4 different tier prices; standard, deluxe edition, legacy and ultimate edition.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Also known as (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by JustAnotherOldGuy ( 4145623 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>"Eve Online", also affectionately known as "Spreadsheet Simulator".</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>made me laugh (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by meglon ( 1001833 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> Eve Online isn't the biggest MMORPG on the market</p><p>In other news: water is wet, and the sky is blue.</p></div>
+ </div>
+</div>
+</body>
--- /dev/null
+ 400,000 WEBSITES VULNERABLE THROUGH EXPOSED .GIT DIRECTORIES \r
+ (SCMAGAZINE.COM) \r
+\r
+ Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (msmash)\r
+ from the security-woes dept.\r
+\r
+ o News link: https://tech.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1954253/400000-websites-vulnerable-through-exposed-git-directories\r
+ o Source link: https://www.scmagazine.com/home/news/400000-websites-vulnerable-through-exposed-git-directories/\r
+\r
+\r
+ Open .git directories are a bigger cybersecurity problem than\r
+ many might imagine, at least according to a Czech security\r
+ researcher who discovered almost 400,000 web pages with an\r
+ open .git directory possibly exposing a wide variety of data.\r
+ From a report: Vladimir Smitka began his .git directory\r
+ odyssey in July when he began looking at Czech websites to\r
+ find how many were improperly configured and allow access to\r
+ their .git folders within the file versions repository. Open\r
+ .git directories are a particularly dangerous issue, he said,\r
+ because they can contain a great deal of sensitive\r
+ information. "Information about the website's structure, and\r
+ sometimes you can get very sensitive data such as database\r
+ passwords, API keys, development IDE settings, and so on.\r
+ However, this data shouldn't be stored in the repository, but\r
+ in previous scans of various security issues, I have found\r
+ many developers that do not follow these best practices,"\r
+ Smitka wrote. Smitka queried 230 million websites to discover\r
+ the 390,000 allowing access to their .git directories. The\r
+ vast majority of the websites with open directories had a .com\r
+ TLD with .net, .de, .org and uk comprising most of the others.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2, Informative)\r
+ (by MidSpeck ( 1516577 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ ^/.*/\.git/\r
+ Protect git repositories in all subdirectories as well.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by jrumney ( 197329 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Why stop there? Are there any dot files/directories that need\r
+ to be served over HTTP?\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: .htaccess (Score:3)\r
+ (by spongman ( 182339 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Why doesn't Apache block all '.'-prefixed directories by\r
+ default?\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re:https://slashdot.org/.git (Score:4, Informative)\r
+ (by ls671 ( 1122017 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Slashdot is still using CVS try [1]https://slashdot.org/CVS/\r
+ [slashdot.org]\r
+ you will see, it works! :)\r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ [1] https://slashdot.org/CVS/\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Your central git repo ... (Score:1)\r
+ (by Qbertino ( 265505 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ ... belongs behind ssh or, at least, behind http access and SSL.\r
+ If I catch you doing otherwise for anything other than FOSS\r
+ software I'll smack you. Hard.\r
+\r
+ ** Re:Your central git repo ... (Score:4, Informative)\r
+ (by tlhIngan ( 30335 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > ... belongs behind ssh or, at least, behind http access and\r
+ > SSL.\r
+ > If I catch you doing otherwise for anything other than FOSS\r
+ > software I'll smack you. Hard.\r
+ And it probably is. The thing is, the website owners are\r
+ using git to version control and deploy their website (not a\r
+ bad idea). So they develop their web site, push it to the\r
+ central git repo, and whenever they need to go live, they\r
+ just do a "git pull" on the webserver and it'll pull down the\r
+ latest version of the website.\r
+ Problem is, they forget about the hidden .git directory git\r
+ makes that stores all sorts of useful information and with a\r
+ little persistence, allow you access to the raw source code\r
+ since you can access the individual git objects. (Or maybe\r
+ even clone it using git).\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by jrumney ( 197329 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ I do this, it is very convenient for deploying updates to\r
+ the site. But I always put the web interface into a\r
+ subdirectory, and only configure the web server to see\r
+ that so the .git directory is not visible over HTTP. And\r
+ dotfiles and directories are blocked in the webserver\r
+ config for extra protection against accidental inclusion\r
+ of invisible files.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** reheating yesterday's food (Score:3)\r
+ (by Tsolias ( 2813011 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ just an article from 2015 [1]https://en.internetwache.org/d...\r
+ [internetwache.org]\r
+ I can give you also next year's article about .file\r
+ vulnerabilities. (spoiler alert)\r
+ [2]https://en.internetwache.org/s... [internetwache.org]\r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ [1]\r
+ https://en.internetwache.org/dont-publicly-expose-git-or-how-we-\r
+ downloaded-your-websites-sourcecode-an-analysis-of-alexas-1m-28-\r
+ 07-2015/\r
+ [2]\r
+ https://en.internetwache.org/scanning-the-alexa-top-1m-for-ds-st-\r
+ ore-files-12-03-2018/\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** KKK (Score:2)\r
+ (by Tsolias ( 2813011 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > Thats what you get on hiring those bootcamp "graduates"\r
+ Kode w/ Karlie Kloss, like it or not.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Alternate headline: 99.8% websites are OK (Score:2)\r
+ (by jmichaelg ( 148257 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ 230 million websites. 400k poorly configured. 4*10^5/2.3*10^8 is\r
+ less than 0.2% of websites surveyed screwed this up.\r
+ 400k is a big number but it's good to know most developers\r
+ aren't that stupid on this issue.\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: yarn dist (Score:2)\r
+ (by TimMD909 ( 260285 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ ... Equifax types for free security tests from 3rd parties\r
+ and press coverage, presumably...\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** So? (Score:2)\r
+ (by cshark ( 673578 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ An open git directory will be everything you need to reconstruct\r
+ the site, more often than not from the same server you're\r
+ targeting. Scary. Database servers are rarely open. Short of\r
+ some serious hacking, there isn't a lot you're going to be able\r
+ to do with this stuff once you've obtained the information\r
+ you're waving around here.\r
+ Until such time as I see hackers actually logging in with this\r
+ information and defacing github, I'm going to remain unconvinced\r
+ of the severity of this one.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by OrangeTide ( 124937 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ My website's .git directories are open intentionally. Makes\r
+ for convenient mirroring and viewing of archives without\r
+ having to hope and pray wayback machine picked up my obscure\r
+ website.\r
+ I'm not too worried. It's just data on the filesystem, it's\r
+ not executing programs. And the data is not supposed to\r
+ contain any secrets. If it ever does then I better rewrite my\r
+ git history.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:1)\r
+ (by Anonymous Coward)\r
+\r
+ \r
+ The most likely actual security implication is hard coded\r
+ keys to 3rd party APIs.\r
+ Not that this is an inevitable threat, itâ(TM)s just\r
+ something I could see being inadvertently exposed and useful\r
+ without much additional effort.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:1)\r
+ (by Orrin Bloquy ( 898571 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > itâ(TM)s\r
+ Clear something up, are you typing curly\r
+ quotes/apostrophes on purpose or do you have your browser\r
+ configured to automatically do that.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by jonwil ( 467024 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ What about if that .git folder (and the website's source\r
+ code) included private keys for stuff. Or credentials/API\r
+ keys for 3rd party services. Or credentials for database and\r
+ other servers.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
--- /dev/null
+0400,000 Websites Vulnerable Through Exposed .git Directories (scmagazine.com) null/SLASHDOT/0102639752 70\r
+i Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (msmash)\r
+i from the security-woes dept.\r
+i\r
+i Open .git directories are a bigger cybersecurity problem than\r
+i many might imagine, at least according to a Czech security\r
+i researcher who discovered almost 400,000 web pages with an\r
+i open .git directory possibly exposing a wide variety of data.\r
+i From a report: Vladimir Smitka began his .git directory\r
+i odyssey in July when he began looking at Czech websites to\r
+i find how many were improperly configured and allow access to\r
+i their .git folders within the file versions repository. Open\r
+i .git directories are a particularly dangerous issue, he said,\r
+i because they can contain a great deal of sensitive\r
+i information. "Information about the website's structure, and\r
+i sometimes you can get very sensitive data such as database\r
+i passwords, API keys, development IDE settings, and so on.\r
+i However, this data shouldn't be stored in the repository, but\r
+i in previous scans of various security issues, I have found\r
+i many developers that do not follow these best practices,"\r
+i Smitka wrote. Smitka queried 230 million websites to discover\r
+i the 390,000 allowing access to their .git directories. The\r
+i vast majority of the websites with open directories had a .com\r
+i TLD with .net, .de, .org and uk comprising most of the others.\r
+i\r
--- /dev/null
+<!DOCTYPE html>
+<html>
+<head>
+ <meta http-equiv='content-type' content='text/html; charset=utf-8'>
+ <meta name='viewport' content='width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0'>
+ <style type='text/css'>
+ body { margin: 1em 15%; }
+ </style>
+</head>
+<body>
+<div class='story-header'>
+ <h1><a href='0102639752.html'>400,000 Websites Vulnerable Through Exposed .git Directories (scmagazine.com)</a></h1>
+ <div class='details'>(Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (msmash)
+from the security-woes dept.)</div>
+ <br/>
+ <div class='content' style='text-align: justify'>
+ Open .git directories are a bigger cybersecurity problem than many might imagine, at least according to a Czech security researcher who discovered almost 400,000 web pages with an open .git directory possibly exposing a wide variety of data. From a report: Vladimir Smitka began his .git directory odyssey in July when he began looking at Czech websites to find how many were improperly configured and allow access to their .git folders within the file versions repository. Open .git directories are a particularly dangerous issue, he said, because they can contain a great deal of sensitive information. "Information about the website's structure, and sometimes you can get very sensitive data such as database passwords, API keys, development IDE settings, and so on. However, this data shouldn't be stored in the repository, but in previous scans of various security issues, I have found many developers that do not follow these best practices," Smitka wrote. Smitka queried 230 million websites to discover the 390,000 allowing access to their .git directories. The vast majority of the websites with open directories had a .com TLD with .net, .de, .org and uk comprising most of the others.
+ </div>
+<hr/>
+</div>
+</body>
--- /dev/null
+<!DOCTYPE html>
+<html>
+<head>
+ <meta http-equiv='content-type' content='text/html; charset=utf-8'>
+ <meta name='viewport' content='width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0'>
+ <style type='text/css'>
+ body { margin: 1em 15%; }
+ </style>
+</head>
+<body>
+<div class='story'>
+ <h1>400,000 Websites Vulnerable Through Exposed .git Directories (scmagazine.com)</h1>
+ <div class='details'>(Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (msmash)
+from the security-woes dept.)</div>
+ <br/>
+ <ul>
+ <li>News link: <a href='https://tech.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1954253/400000-websites-vulnerable-through-exposed-git-directories'>https://tech.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1954253/400000-websites-vulnerable-through-exposed-git-directories</a></li>
+ <li>Source link: <a href='https://www.scmagazine.com/home/news/400000-websites-vulnerable-through-exposed-git-directories/'>https://www.scmagazine.com/home/news/400000-websites-vulnerable-through-exposed-git-directories/</a></li>
+ </ul>
+ <br/>
+ <div class='content' style='text-align: justify'>
+ Open .git directories are a bigger cybersecurity problem than many might imagine, at least according to a Czech security researcher who discovered almost 400,000 web pages with an open .git directory possibly exposing a wide variety of data. From a report: Vladimir Smitka began his .git directory odyssey in July when he began looking at Czech websites to find how many were improperly configured and allow access to their .git folders within the file versions repository. Open .git directories are a particularly dangerous issue, he said, because they can contain a great deal of sensitive information. "Information about the website's structure, and sometimes you can get very sensitive data such as database passwords, API keys, development IDE settings, and so on. However, this data shouldn't be stored in the repository, but in previous scans of various security issues, I have found many developers that do not follow these best practices," Smitka wrote. Smitka queried 230 million websites to discover the 390,000 allowing access to their .git directories. The vast majority of the websites with open directories had a .com TLD with .net, .de, .org and uk comprising most of the others.
+ </div>
+<hr/>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2, Informative)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by MidSpeck ( 1516577 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>^/.*/\.git/</p><p>Protect git repositories in all subdirectories as well.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by jrumney ( 197329 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Why stop there? Are there any dot files/directories that need to be served over HTTP?</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: .htaccess (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by spongman ( 182339 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Why doesn't Apache block all '.'-prefixed directories by default?</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re:https://slashdot.org/.git (Score:4, Informative)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by ls671 ( 1122017 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Slashdot is still using CVS try [1]https://slashdot.org/CVS/ [slashdot.org]</p><p>you will see, it works! :)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>[1] https://slashdot.org/CVS/</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Your central git repo ... (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Qbertino ( 265505 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>... belongs behind ssh or, at least, behind http access and SSL.</p><p>If I catch you doing otherwise for anything other than FOSS software I'll smack you. Hard.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re:Your central git repo ... (Score:4, Informative)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by tlhIngan ( 30335 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> ... belongs behind ssh or, at least, behind http access and SSL.</p><p>> If I catch you doing otherwise for anything other than FOSS software I'll smack you. Hard.</p><p>And it probably is. The thing is, the website owners are using git to version control and deploy their website (not a bad idea). So they develop their web site, push it to the central git repo, and whenever they need to go live, they just do a "git pull" on the webserver and it'll pull down the latest version of the website.</p><p>Problem is, they forget about the hidden .git directory git makes that stores all sorts of useful information and with a little persistence, allow you access to the raw source code since you can access the individual git objects. (Or maybe even clone it using git).</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by jrumney ( 197329 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>I do this, it is very convenient for deploying updates to the site. But I always put the web interface into a subdirectory, and only configure the web server to see that so the .git directory is not visible over HTTP. And dotfiles and directories are blocked in the webserver config for extra protection against accidental inclusion of invisible files.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>reheating yesterday's food (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Tsolias ( 2813011 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>just an article from 2015 [1]https://en.internetwache.org/d... [internetwache.org]</p><p>I can give you also next year's article about .file vulnerabilities. (spoiler alert) [2]https://en.internetwache.org/s... [internetwache.org]</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>[1] https://en.internetwache.org/dont-publicly-expose-git-or-how-we-downloaded-your-websites-sourcecode-an-analysis-of-alexas-1m-28-07-2015/</p><p>[2] https://en.internetwache.org/scanning-the-alexa-top-1m-for-ds-store-files-12-03-2018/</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>KKK (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Tsolias ( 2813011 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> Thats what you get on hiring those bootcamp "graduates"</p><p>Kode w/ Karlie Kloss, like it or not.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Alternate headline: 99.8% websites are OK (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by jmichaelg ( 148257 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>230 million websites. 400k poorly configured. 4*10^5/2.3*10^8 is less than 0.2% of websites surveyed screwed this up.</p><p>400k is a big number but it's good to know most developers aren't that stupid on this issue.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: yarn dist (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by TimMD909 ( 260285 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>... Equifax types for free security tests from 3rd parties and press coverage, presumably...</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>So? (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by cshark ( 673578 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>An open git directory will be everything you need to reconstruct the site, more often than not from the same server you're targeting. Scary. Database servers are rarely open. Short of some serious hacking, there isn't a lot you're going to be able to do with this stuff once you've obtained the information you're waving around here.</p><p>Until such time as I see hackers actually logging in with this information and defacing github, I'm going to remain unconvinced of the severity of this one.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by OrangeTide ( 124937 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>My website's .git directories are open intentionally. Makes for convenient mirroring and viewing of archives without having to hope and pray wayback machine picked up my obscure website.</p><p>I'm not too worried. It's just data on the filesystem, it's not executing programs. And the data is not supposed to contain any secrets. If it ever does then I better rewrite my git history.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Anonymous Coward</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>The most likely actual security implication is hard coded keys to 3rd party APIs.</p><p>Not that this is an inevitable threat, itâ(TM)s just something I could see being inadvertently exposed and useful without much additional effort.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Orrin Bloquy ( 898571 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> itâ(TM)s</p><p>Clear something up, are you typing curly quotes/apostrophes on purpose or do you have your browser configured to automatically do that.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by jonwil ( 467024 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>What about if that .git folder (and the website's source code) included private keys for stuff. Or credentials/API keys for 3rd party services. Or credentials for database and other servers.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+</div>
+</body>
--- /dev/null
+ 'I'VE SEEN THE FUTURE OF CONSUMER AI, AND IT DOESN'T HAVE ONE' \r
+ (THEREGISTER.CO.UK) \r
+\r
+ Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (msmash)\r
+ from the there-is-no-spoon dept.\r
+\r
+ o News link: https://tech.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/205221/ive-seen-the-future-of-consumer-ai-and-it-doesnt-have-one\r
+ o Source link: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/09/05/consumer_ai_ifa_2018_roundup/\r
+\r
+\r
+ Andrew Orlowski of The Register recounts all the gadgets\r
+ supercharged with AI that he came across at IFA tradeshow last\r
+ week -- and wonders what value AI brought to the table. He\r
+ writes: I didn't see a blockchain toothbrush at IFA in Berlin\r
+ last week, but I'm sure there was one lurking about somewhere.\r
+ With 30 vast halls to cover, I didn't look too hard for it.\r
+ But I did see many things almost as tragic that no one could\r
+ miss -- AI being squeezed into almost every conceivable bit of\r
+ consumer electronics. But none were convincing. If ever there\r
+ was a solution looking for a problem, it's ramming AI into\r
+ gadgets to show of a company's machine learning prowess. For\r
+ the consumer it adds unreliability, cost and complexity, and\r
+ the annoyance of being prompted. [...] Back to LG, which takes\r
+ 2018's prize for sticking AI into a superfluous gadget. The\r
+ centrepiece of its AI efforts this year is a robot, ClOi. Put\r
+ Google Assistant or Alexa on wheels, and you have ClOi. I\r
+ asked the booth person what exactly ClOi could do to be told\r
+ "it can take notes for your shopping list." Why wasn't this\r
+ miracle of the Fourth Industrial Revolution let loose on the\r
+ LG floor? I wondered -- a question answered by this account of\r
+ ClOi's debut at CES in January. Clearly things haven't\r
+ improved much -- this robot buddy was kept indoors.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Stupid industry fads (Score:5, Funny)\r
+ (by Spy Handler ( 822350 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ 3D printer in every home will fundamentally change human society\r
+ IoT internet connected belt buckles and toothbrushes will take\r
+ over the world\r
+ AI will revolutionize consumer electronics\r
+ Net PC from Sun will dominate the computer industry (this one is\r
+ really old)\r
+\r
+ ** Re:Stupid industry fads (Score:5, Insightful)\r
+ (by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Excessive hype is always followed by a trough of\r
+ disillusionment. But as the TOD fades, plenty of mature,\r
+ practical applications are likely to emerge. The\r
+ technological naysayers are usually even more wrong than the\r
+ hypesters.\r
+ [1]Hype cycle [wikipedia.org]\r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hype_cycle\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > Excessive hype is always followed by a trough of\r
+ > disillusionment.\r
+ Pro Tip: Get out in front and mention this *before* taking\r
+ your date home. Better for her to hear it from you than\r
+ her working it out on her own ... :-)\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re:Stupid industry fads (Score:4, Insightful)\r
+ (by CaptainDork ( 3678879 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ If smart phones and tablets are any indicator ...\r
+ AI, too, is an evolutionary dead end.\r
+ It's a buzz word with a vacuous definition.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by Q-Hack! ( 37846 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Not a lot different than back in the 1950's when the\r
+ trend was to create all manor of odd gadgets to make\r
+ life easier. Those deemed useful are still around...\r
+ The rest can be found in junk markets around the world.\r
+ But hey, the Cracker-barrel's of the future will still\r
+ need stuff to decorate their walls with.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by CaptainDork ( 3678879 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ In reaction to your sig:\r
+ I recently re-read "Nineteen Eighty-Four," because\r
+ my first reading was so long ago.\r
+ Good read, but what a goddam depressing book!\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by magzteel ( 5013587 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > Excessive hype is always followed by a trough of\r
+ > disillusionment. But as the TOD fades, plenty of mature,\r
+ > practical applications are likely to emerge. The\r
+ > technological naysayers are usually even more wrong than\r
+ > the hypesters.\r
+ > [1]Hype cycle [wikipedia.org]\r
+ Back in the early PC days, when you had to hook up a\r
+ cassette player to load your application, and then another\r
+ one to load your data, we used to tell people they could\r
+ store recipes on their TRS-80 personal computer. This was\r
+ not much of a productivity enhancer. I'm sure based on\r
+ this experience some people would have thought PC's were\r
+ useless and had no future.\r
+ And then floppy disks and spreadsheets were invented.\r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hype_cycle\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by jythie ( 914043 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ It is really difficult to say if the naysayers or\r
+ hypesters are more often right or wrong. One problem with\r
+ looking back at negative guesses is we only really\r
+ remember the ones that turned out to be wrong since the\r
+ evidence is in modern use today, while all the naysayers\r
+ that we right, well, the things they were right about\r
+ faded into obscurity.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ You only count as a "true" naysayer if you are negative\r
+ about an overhyped trend with groupies and fanbois, not\r
+ about an obviously stupid idea.\r
+ The naysayers were right about the Segway, but that was\r
+ an easy target, since it reached peak hype before it\r
+ had even been shown to the public.\r
+ Other tech failures were Iridium, Zune, Pebble,\r
+ Juicero. But none of these were hyped as world changing\r
+ technology.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > In the long term only 1/20 companies really make it.\r
+ Success of a technology is rarely correlated with the\r
+ success of particular companies. Silicon Valley is\r
+ littered with plaques marking the graves of\r
+ semiconductor pioneering companies. Few of them\r
+ survived. Yet semiconductors have been the greatest\r
+ technological success since fire was tamed.\r
+ For another example, look at aviation. It took 66 years\r
+ to go from Kitty Hawk to the Sea of Tranquility. Yet\r
+ how many airlines made money during those years? Almost\r
+ none.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:1)\r
+ (by atherophage ( 2481624 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Prognosticators have been wrong before. While it is easy to\r
+ poke fun at the unusual who knows, perhaps in a few years\r
+ dental floss will come with AI. The thought of not having AI\r
+ floss will be unthinkable.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3, Interesting)\r
+ (by Anonymous Coward)\r
+\r
+ \r
+ As much as I am a nerd, I blame "nerds" for this. There is\r
+ this whole new fad of being a "techie", watching Big Bang\r
+ Theory, owning a Tesla, and generally being absolutely\r
+ ignorant about real science, technology and math while\r
+ "pretending" to be a nerd. I used "pretending" but there may\r
+ be some legitimate attempt but it is hard to tell if someone\r
+ is a fake nerd or just a stupid nerd. I think this trend\r
+ partly follows from women trying to follow the (tech) money\r
+ and then men trying to follow the women.\r
+ This\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by AbRASiON ( 589899 ) *)\r
+\r
+ \r
+ I don't know that there's a lot of these people but they\r
+ do exist, for certain yes. The 'watching big bang theory'\r
+ is the kicker, once someone admits watching that, you know\r
+ they're very unlikely to be a 'proper nerd' for lack of a\r
+ better term.\r
+ Considering they only have partial skills in technology\r
+ then, we can likely guess, if they work in the industry,\r
+ they're probably higher on the ladder than us and paid\r
+ more though :/ like most management / consultant types.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3)\r
+ (by JMJimmy ( 2036122 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ The thing no one can consider is time.\r
+ "AI" being jammed into things now is probably lame, awkward,\r
+ and of very limited use. Much like computers were back in the\r
+ punch card days with devices that. Less than 100 years later\r
+ we've got computers in our pocket. We are in the early days\r
+ of AI - we'll look back on it decades from now as we do with\r
+ things like: [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?...\r
+ [youtube.com]\r
+ This article is just another example of someone who can't see\r
+ past their nose to the road ahead and the million differen\r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp7MHZY2ADI\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by AHuxley ( 892839 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Good for a few workers over the decade of hype.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by m00sh ( 2538182 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > 3D printer in every home will fundamentally change human\r
+ > society\r
+ > IoT internet connected belt buckles and toothbrushes will\r
+ > take over the world\r
+ > AI will revolutionize consumer electronics\r
+ > Net PC from Sun will dominate the computer industry (this one\r
+ > is really old)\r
+ I don't know about home but it plays a big part in\r
+ manufacturing. There are very specialized and successful\r
+ medical companies that use 3d printing.\r
+ Don't know about belt buckles but fitbit, apple watch, garmin\r
+ has been worth billions of dollars and fundamentally changed\r
+ the way a lot of people do things.\r
+ I don't know about NetPC but what about the cloud? The hype\r
+ that we would all put all our stuff in the cloud blah blah\r
+ actually materialized. There are many companies who own no\r
+ hardware except the dev la\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by lokedhs ( 672255 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Net PC was not from Sun. I should I know, I worked for them\r
+ during that era. What they had was JavaStation, which was a\r
+ neat idea but ahead of its time. That concept is now realised\r
+ by the Chromebook. Net PC was a Compaq thing, if I recall\r
+ correctly. However, Wikipedia tells me it was Oracle, so\r
+ perhaps the Compaq device was called something else.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by bobbied ( 2522392 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > Example: Apple will go under...any day now....since 1984\r
+ But they've been totally correct in not predicting the "Year\r
+ of the Linux Desktop" has come.\r
+ You win a few and lose a few.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by jythie ( 914043 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ *nod* to expand on this.... true, Apple never did go\r
+ under. But look how many computer companies started up\r
+ around the same time and did. It is fun to look at the\r
+ successes and compare them to the naysayers who were\r
+ wrong, but the ones who were right, well, their\r
+ predictions did not leave much to talk about today.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re:Now With AI! (Score:5, Informative)\r
+ (by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > Gee, I could have sworn we already HAD the AI craze back in\r
+ > the late 80s. Or was it early 90s?\r
+ It was the 1980s. It had faded long before 1990.\r
+ But there was an earlier AI craze in the 1960s, based on\r
+ perceptrons. That faded by 1970.\r
+ The 1980 AI hype cycle was driven by "expert systems" and\r
+ "Lisp machines".\r
+ The latest cycle started in 2006 with the publication of the\r
+ [1]seminal paper on deep learning [sciencemag.org], and has\r
+ so far lasted far longer than any previous AI hype cycle.\r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ [1] http://science.sciencemag.org/content/313/5786/504\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by CaptainDork ( 3678879 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ I go way back, too.\r
+ AI had an unambiguous definition that eroded under stress\r
+ because the industry came to the realization that the "I"\r
+ part (intelligence) used the human mind as the high bar.\r
+ The second epiphany came when no one could fabricate an AI\r
+ that would simply refuse to cooperate if Facebook was\r
+ unreachable.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by Pseudonym ( 62607 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ In the 90s it was all "knowledge-based systems" and in the\r
+ noughties it was all "intelligent agents".\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > In the 90s it was all "knowledge-based systems" and in\r
+ > the noughties it was all "intelligent agents".\r
+ Yes, but those generated far less hype than what\r
+ happened in the 60s, 80s, and teenies.\r
+ The big things in the 90s and noughties were the web\r
+ and e-commerce.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by CWCheese ( 729272 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Thanks for the Lisp reference! I fondly remember learning\r
+ Lisp in an AI class during college in the 80s. Actually\r
+ enjoyed programming Lisp because it could be so terse and\r
+ do so much very rapidly. However, we really had no good\r
+ applications to use for it, other than having an\r
+ application learn the best way to win a chess game. I\r
+ chose not to pursue AI as a career and haven't suffered\r
+ for that.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > I chose not to pursue AI as a career and haven't\r
+ > suffered for that.\r
+ Learning Lisp would not have helped you. Modern AI uses\r
+ mostly Python based libraries such as Tensorflow and\r
+ PyTorch. C++ is used for performance critical stuff.\r
+ Nobody uses Lisp for AI anymore. It was a dead end.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Fifth Generation (Score:2)\r
+ (by mcswell ( 1102107 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Fueling the hype in the 1980s AI cycle was the Japanese\r
+ Fifth Generation project, for which a stated goal was to\r
+ leapfrog the West's computer technology and skills. People\r
+ like Edward Feigenbaum and Pamela McCorduck used the FUD\r
+ generated around this project to call for increased\r
+ funding, claiming in their 1983 book 'The Fifth\r
+ Generation: Japan’s Computer Challenge to the World' that\r
+ "America needs a national plan of action, a kind of space\r
+ shuttle program for the knowledge systems of the future."\r
+ A\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by Torodung ( 31985 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > Cats on the blockchain, anyone?\r
+ Well, at the very least, every zig should be on the\r
+ blockchain. Don't know about Cats.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** You can stop reading at "Orlowski" (Score:4, Interesting)\r
+ (by serviscope_minor ( 664417 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Andrew Orlowski of The Register is basically a professional\r
+ dickhead. His main goal seems to be to be as obnoxious and\r
+ ignorant as possible presumably with the goal of trolling the\r
+ readership. He's pretty much the reason I stopped reading the\r
+ Register because of the constant streem of utter bullshit from\r
+ that guy.\r
+\r
+ ** Re:You can stop reading at "Orlowski" (Score:4, Interesting)\r
+ (by starless ( 60879 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ And also appears to be climate change denier....\r
+ (at least for some of his Register articles.)\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by TJ_Phazerhacki ( 520002 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ So, Walt Mossberg for a new generation? Shutup!\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** AI in a Toaster! (Score:2)\r
+ (by Zorro ( 15797 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Red Dwarf has already shown why this is a BAD Idea.\r
+ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhnN4eUiei4\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by Revek ( 133289 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Please learn basic html K, thanks.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by AbRASiON ( 589899 ) *)\r
+\r
+ \r
+ How about slashdot stop being entirely backwards with that\r
+ shit instead?\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by Applehu Akbar ( 2968043 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ But I do like being able to verbally ask my phone to navigate\r
+ to a contact, without having to squint at a screen in the\r
+ sun, and get turn by turn directions. Digital assistants have\r
+ slipped into a place in my life where they do a few useful\r
+ things. As time goes on, this set will grow larger.\r
+ But I know: "If it works, it's not AI!" "If it's AI, it won't\r
+ work!"\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Aibo (Score:1)\r
+ (by Anonymous Coward)\r
+\r
+ \r
+ If Sony's Aibo lives up to the demos I have seen - that would be\r
+ one big application. AI as a pet.\r
+ I also use AI (maybe more ML) all the time with photo sorting,\r
+ image recognition, etc. It is already in the home.\r
+\r
+ ** OP must be joking... (Score:4, Insightful)\r
+ (by JoeDuncan ( 874519 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ ... because consumer AI is *ALREADY* ubiquitous and all around\r
+ us.\r
+ From the face detection in your phone, to the fuzzy logic\r
+ controllers in washing machines, to the ant colony algorithms\r
+ being used to route network traffic, to finding directions with\r
+ google maps, to Netflix and Amazon's recommendation algorithms,\r
+ to OCR for cheques and mail, to NEST thermostats, to robot\r
+ vacuum cleaners and lawn mowers, to expert systems in medical\r
+ diagnosis... (I could keep going)\r
+ AI in consumer products is literally *already* ALL around us.\r
+ Saying that consumer AI "has no future" is like looking around\r
+ at the world today and saying "personal cars have no future" -\r
+ it's completely idiotic because to anyone with half an ounce of\r
+ perception that future is ALREADY here.\r
+ It's like looking at a forest and claiming there are no trees\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by grahamsz ( 150076 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Yeah it seems like it is a natural fit in optimizing the\r
+ things we do.\r
+ Even though I don't routinely use my phone as an alarm clock,\r
+ it still knows when i'm likely to get up and if I plug it in\r
+ at bed time it'll do a good job of figuring out when i'm\r
+ likely to get up and adjusts its charging rate to be done\r
+ about an hour before then. Yet if I plug it in a 3pm then\r
+ it'll assume i want as much charge as possible and charge as\r
+ fast as it can. It's not rocket science, but it's useful.\r
+ Do I need a dishwasher with\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by JoeDuncan ( 874519 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > Do I need a dishwasher with a screen that I can talk to?\r
+ Nope, but I'm willing to bet it has an embedded fuzzy\r
+ logic controller in it to control water levels.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by mcswell ( 1102107 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ "Do I need a dishwasher with a screen that I can talk to?"\r
+ Printers have a screen. You can't talk to it (at least\r
+ you're not supposed to--when aggravated, I've been know to\r
+ do so, and not kindly). But try to decipher what's on that\r
+ screen. I claim that printers are not any easier to use\r
+ than they were in 1984 (which is when I got my first dot\r
+ matrix printer). You (ok, I) *still* can't figure out\r
+ what's wrong with them, despite the screen.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by JoeDuncan ( 874519 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > None of the tings you mention actually contain any real\r
+ > artificial intelligence in the sense of being able to\r
+ > making decisions in the face of unknown circumstances and\r
+ > data sources.\r
+ They do actually.\r
+ Roombas have to be able to adapt to unknown obstacles and\r
+ uncertain sensory input (could get blocked, partially\r
+ occluded etc...).\r
+ Embedded fuzzy logic controllers (also used in anti-lock\r
+ brakes) have to be able to maintain a steady output signal\r
+ given uncertain input (wear and tear on the mechanics,\r
+ grit...) that can vary wildly in an unknown manner.\r
+ OCR systems need to be able to tell the difference between\r
+ a cheque and unknown things, like night club flyers, and\r
+ they deal with hand written\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:1)\r
+ (by AHuxley ( 892839 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Re "face detection" is not AI. Its a really big and fast\r
+ database. Filled with faces the police know about and random\r
+ people walking past CCTV.\r
+ Re "fuzzy logic controllers in washing machines" A set amount\r
+ of power, water, weight of laundry is not AI. Just good\r
+ programming within set limits.\r
+ Re "'finding directions" with maps that are created and set.\r
+ Re "recommendation algorithms" that is set by past people\r
+ buying things and another person showing the same interests.\r
+ More to do with collecting lots\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by JoeDuncan ( 874519 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > ..."face detection" is not AI. Its a really big and fast\r
+ > database. Filled with faces the police know...\r
+ ...and just HOW do the faces "police know" get matched to\r
+ this database? Explain without reference to AI.\r
+ > ..."fuzzy logic controllers in washing machines" A set\r
+ > amount of power, water, weight of laundry is not AI.\r
+ No it isn't, but you're a fool if you think your washing\r
+ machine is that simple these days. It DOES take fuzzy\r
+ logic to adapt to things like wear and tear on the\r
+ machine, arbitrarily changing water pressures and\r
+ temperatures, etc... and still maintain consistent\r
+ performance.\r
+ > "'finding directions" with maps that are created and set.\r
+ ...and using AI algorithms to find the best path.\r
+ Blah blah blah... you get the point. You've deliberately\r
+ downplayed the AI aspect\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by JoeDuncan ( 874519 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ You are clearly uneducated, Troll.\r
+ If you actually wish to enlighten yourself, I'd start\r
+ here: [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]\r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_intelligence\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by hazem ( 472289 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > From the face detection in your phone, to the fuzzy logic\r
+ > controllers in washing machines, to the ant colony algorithms\r
+ > being used to route network traffic, to finding directions\r
+ > with google maps, to Netflix and Amazon's recommendation\r
+ > algorithms, to OCR for cheques and mail, to NEST thermostats,\r
+ > to robot vacuum cleaners and lawn mowers, to expert systems\r
+ > in medical diagnosis... (I could keep going)\r
+ When I took an AI class a few years ago, one of my favorite\r
+ things the professor said was, "What we called 'AI' yesterday\r
+ is simply the algorithm for how we do a thing today."\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** AI's Strength (Score:2)\r
+ (by thePsychologist ( 1062886 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ AI (i.e. machine learning/neural networks) is really good at\r
+ optimizing stuff, so its natural strength shows when you have\r
+ hundreds of thousands of entities in a system. Examples are the\r
+ electricity grid, playing Go, and a department store's\r
+ inventory.\r
+ In our individual lives, AI seems more like another drop in the\r
+ bucket of too much technology, and I think one day we'll realize\r
+ that less is more when it comes to the stuff in our homes.\r
+\r
+ ** Getting concerned myself (Score:1)\r
+ (by SuperKendall ( 25149 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ I was looking at new fridges recently as a friend was asking for\r
+ a recommendation, and it's alarming how trying to find a fridge\r
+ without a screen is getting to be like trying to find a cell\r
+ phone without a camera... it really limits your options.\r
+ The only way they could make fridges any worse is the if screens\r
+ also played CNN constantly when not in use, like in an\r
+ airport... you can absolutely see subsidized ad-fridges coming\r
+ down the pipeline.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by lgw ( 121541 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Seems like only the highest and lowest-end fridges lack\r
+ screens these days (as well as ice/water in the door,\r
+ something else I could do without).\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by mcswell ( 1102107 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Come to my house. The refr *has* an ice/water dispenser in\r
+ the door, but it hasn't worked for over a year. I think\r
+ the tube to the water dispenser is frozen, and if it gets\r
+ thawed, it just freezes up again. Same with the water\r
+ dispenser on the refr nearest my office at work.\r
+ As for the ice dispenser on our refr, we never used it, so\r
+ I took it out and got lots more room in the freezer. If we\r
+ want ice cubes, we make them in trays, like the 1960s.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3)\r
+ (by sheramil ( 921315 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > What the hell does a fridge need a screen for?\r
+ You can connect it to a webcam inside the fridge and see\r
+ if the light goes out when you close the door.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** I remember a time... (Score:2)\r
+ (by Dallas May ( 4891515 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ My uncle was a computer scientist for a National Lab. He retired\r
+ 15 or so years ago. I remember just after my grandmother first\r
+ got internet, he didn't have it at his home yet because he\r
+ didn't believe it was safe -this was probably 1997 or 98, and I\r
+ remember him talking to me about how disappointed he was with\r
+ the internet. "It was supposed to be this great thing. It's\r
+ useless. It'll never amount to anything."\r
+ Yeah, he was wrong.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by bobbied ( 2522392 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > My uncle was a computer scientist for a National Lab. He\r
+ > retired 15 or so years ago. I remember just after my\r
+ > grandmother first got internet, he didn't have it at his home\r
+ > yet because he didn't believe it was safe -this was probably\r
+ > 1997 or 98, and I remember him talking to me about how\r
+ > disappointed he was with the internet. "It was supposed to be\r
+ > this great thing. It's useless. It'll never amount to\r
+ > anything."\r
+ > Yeah, he was wrong.\r
+ Was he? Was he really?\r
+ How much of the internet is truly useful and how much is just\r
+ trash? Judging by my inbox, the number of E-mail in my inbox\r
+ the ratio 1s more than 10 to 1 SPAM to worth while messages\r
+ (And that's AFTER the SPAM filters.)\r
+ I find that this ratio pretty much governs the whole of the\r
+ internet.. Where 1/10th of it is actually something of use\r
+ and the rest is just useless junk.\r
+ So he's not that wrong.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by mcswell ( 1102107 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ And here you (and I) are.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** I heard... (Score:1)\r
+ (by Hentai007 ( 188457 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ AI is turning frogs gay.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by AbRASiON ( 589899 ) *)\r
+\r
+ \r
+ That's actually not true, the frogs are only gay for pay.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Nobody buys something because of AI (Score:3)\r
+ (by Laxator2 ( 973549 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ I did not see any example where someone says: "I did not buy\r
+ that product because it lacked AI".\r
+ I did not hear from anyone that they need AI so they are going\r
+ out of their way to buy it. In its current form AI is good for\r
+ pattern recognition in some cases, for example, face\r
+ identification in photos.\r
+ The only customers are corporations with massive collections of\r
+ personal data to analyze, but not individual consumers.\r
+ I believe AI has been over-hyped and pushed in areas where it is\r
+ not usable in its current form (like self-driving cars) and we\r
+ start to see the backlash.\r
+ I've already seen stories saying that the medical diagnoses made\r
+ by IBM's Watson are just plain wrong. More examples will follow.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by m00sh ( 2538182 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > I did not see any example where someone says: "I did not buy\r
+ > that product because it lacked AI".\r
+ > I did not hear from anyone that they need AI so they are\r
+ > going out of their way to buy it. In its current form AI is\r
+ > good for pattern recognition in some cases, for example, face\r
+ > identification in photos. The only customers are corporations\r
+ > with massive collections of personal data to analyze, but not\r
+ > individual consumers. I believe AI has been over-hyped and\r
+ > pushed in areas where it is not usable in its current form\r
+ > (like self-driving cars) and we start to see the backlash.\r
+ > I've already seen stories saying that the medical diagnoses\r
+ > made by IBM's Watson are just plain wrong. More examples will\r
+ > follow.\r
+ What about Google home and Alexa?\r
+ How do you recognize pedestrians in self-driving cars without\r
+ AI?\r
+ IBM Watson was wrong quite a bit but it won jeopardy.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** First they ignore you, ... (Score:1)\r
+ (by Maxo-Texas ( 864189 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight\r
+ you, then you win.\r
+ Mahatma Gandhi\r
+ This field is moving so fast compared to the 90s.\r
+\r
+ ** It's a dead end because it's not very good anyway (Score:2)\r
+ (by Rick Schumann ( 4662797 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ So-called 'AI' is over-hyped and under-performing.\r
+\r
+ ** Another AI winter? (Score:2)\r
+ (by OneHundredAndTen ( 1523865 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ The AI bubble seems to be starting to deflate. It may not pop,\r
+ but it will likely carry on shrinking. Most people already know\r
+ that Alex and co. are little more than gimmicks, good for party\r
+ games, grins and giggles, and little more. The AI community\r
+ seems to be making the same mistakes they made in the late 60s\r
+ and 70s. The second AI winter is nigh.\r
+\r
+ ** how do you see non-existent things ? (Score:2)\r
+ (by bingoUV ( 1066850 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ If Consumer AI doesn't have a future, how can that non-existent\r
+ future be seen ?\r
+ In an alternative interpretation, the author has seen the future\r
+ of Consumer AI and so of course it exists. But the future of the\r
+ future of Consumer AI doesn't exist. I.e. Future of Consumer AI\r
+ doesn't have one - where "one" stands for future.\r
+ Any other interpretations ?\r
+\r
+ ** It's not "Consumer AI" (Score:1)\r
+ (by themusicgod1 ( 241799 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Since the consumer is not control of it.\r
+ \r
+ It's Anti-Consumer AI if anything\r
+\r
+\r
--- /dev/null
+0'I've Seen the Future of Consumer AI, and it Doesn't Have One' (theregister.co.uk) null/SLASHDOT/0102639856 70\r
+i Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (msmash)\r
+i from the there-is-no-spoon dept.\r
+i\r
+i Andrew Orlowski of The Register recounts all the gadgets\r
+i supercharged with AI that he came across at IFA tradeshow last\r
+i week -- and wonders what value AI brought to the table. He\r
+i writes: I didn't see a blockchain toothbrush at IFA in Berlin\r
+i last week, but I'm sure there was one lurking about somewhere.\r
+i With 30 vast halls to cover, I didn't look too hard for it.\r
+i But I did see many things almost as tragic that no one could\r
+i miss -- AI being squeezed into almost every conceivable bit of\r
+i consumer electronics. But none were convincing. If ever there\r
+i was a solution looking for a problem, it's ramming AI into\r
+i gadgets to show of a company's machine learning prowess. For\r
+i the consumer it adds unreliability, cost and complexity, and\r
+i the annoyance of being prompted. [...] Back to LG, which takes\r
+i 2018's prize for sticking AI into a superfluous gadget. The\r
+i centrepiece of its AI efforts this year is a robot, ClOi. Put\r
+i Google Assistant or Alexa on wheels, and you have ClOi. I\r
+i asked the booth person what exactly ClOi could do to be told\r
+i "it can take notes for your shopping list." Why wasn't this\r
+i miracle of the Fourth Industrial Revolution let loose on the\r
+i LG floor? I wondered -- a question answered by this account of\r
+i ClOi's debut at CES in January. Clearly things haven't\r
+i improved much -- this robot buddy was kept indoors.\r
+i\r
--- /dev/null
+<!DOCTYPE html>
+<html>
+<head>
+ <meta http-equiv='content-type' content='text/html; charset=utf-8'>
+ <meta name='viewport' content='width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0'>
+ <style type='text/css'>
+ body { margin: 1em 15%; }
+ </style>
+</head>
+<body>
+<div class='story-header'>
+ <h1><a href='0102639856.html'>'I've Seen the Future of Consumer AI, and it Doesn't Have One' (theregister.co.uk)</a></h1>
+ <div class='details'>(Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (msmash)
+from the there-is-no-spoon dept.)</div>
+ <br/>
+ <div class='content' style='text-align: justify'>
+ Andrew Orlowski of The Register recounts all the gadgets supercharged with AI that he came across at IFA tradeshow last week -- and wonders what value AI brought to the table. He writes: I didn't see a blockchain toothbrush at IFA in Berlin last week, but I'm sure there was one lurking about somewhere. With 30 vast halls to cover, I didn't look too hard for it. But I did see many things almost as tragic that no one could miss -- AI being squeezed into almost every conceivable bit of consumer electronics. But none were convincing. If ever there was a solution looking for a problem, it's ramming AI into gadgets to show of a company's machine learning prowess. For the consumer it adds unreliability, cost and complexity, and the annoyance of being prompted. [...] Back to LG, which takes 2018's prize for sticking AI into a superfluous gadget. The centrepiece of its AI efforts this year is a robot, ClOi. Put Google Assistant or Alexa on wheels, and you have ClOi. I asked the booth person what exactly ClOi could do to be told "it can take notes for your shopping list." Why wasn't this miracle of the Fourth Industrial Revolution let loose on the LG floor? I wondered -- a question answered by this account of ClOi's debut at CES in January. Clearly things haven't improved much -- this robot buddy was kept indoors.
+ </div>
+<hr/>
+</div>
+</body>
--- /dev/null
+<!DOCTYPE html>
+<html>
+<head>
+ <meta http-equiv='content-type' content='text/html; charset=utf-8'>
+ <meta name='viewport' content='width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0'>
+ <style type='text/css'>
+ body { margin: 1em 15%; }
+ </style>
+</head>
+<body>
+<div class='story'>
+ <h1>'I've Seen the Future of Consumer AI, and it Doesn't Have One' (theregister.co.uk)</h1>
+ <div class='details'>(Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (msmash)
+from the there-is-no-spoon dept.)</div>
+ <br/>
+ <ul>
+ <li>News link: <a href='https://tech.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/205221/ive-seen-the-future-of-consumer-ai-and-it-doesnt-have-one'>https://tech.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/205221/ive-seen-the-future-of-consumer-ai-and-it-doesnt-have-one</a></li>
+ <li>Source link: <a href='https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/09/05/consumer_ai_ifa_2018_roundup/'>https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/09/05/consumer_ai_ifa_2018_roundup/</a></li>
+ </ul>
+ <br/>
+ <div class='content' style='text-align: justify'>
+ Andrew Orlowski of The Register recounts all the gadgets supercharged with AI that he came across at IFA tradeshow last week -- and wonders what value AI brought to the table. He writes: I didn't see a blockchain toothbrush at IFA in Berlin last week, but I'm sure there was one lurking about somewhere. With 30 vast halls to cover, I didn't look too hard for it. But I did see many things almost as tragic that no one could miss -- AI being squeezed into almost every conceivable bit of consumer electronics. But none were convincing. If ever there was a solution looking for a problem, it's ramming AI into gadgets to show of a company's machine learning prowess. For the consumer it adds unreliability, cost and complexity, and the annoyance of being prompted. [...] Back to LG, which takes 2018's prize for sticking AI into a superfluous gadget. The centrepiece of its AI efforts this year is a robot, ClOi. Put Google Assistant or Alexa on wheels, and you have ClOi. I asked the booth person what exactly ClOi could do to be told "it can take notes for your shopping list." Why wasn't this miracle of the Fourth Industrial Revolution let loose on the LG floor? I wondered -- a question answered by this account of ClOi's debut at CES in January. Clearly things haven't improved much -- this robot buddy was kept indoors.
+ </div>
+<hr/>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Stupid industry fads (Score:5, Funny)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Spy Handler ( 822350 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>3D printer in every home will fundamentally change human society</p><p>IoT internet connected belt buckles and toothbrushes will take over the world</p><p>AI will revolutionize consumer electronics</p><p>Net PC from Sun will dominate the computer industry (this one is really old)</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re:Stupid industry fads (Score:5, Insightful)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Excessive hype is always followed by a trough of disillusionment. But as the TOD fades, plenty of mature, practical applications are likely to emerge. The technological naysayers are usually even more wrong than the hypesters.</p><p>[1]Hype cycle [wikipedia.org]</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hype_cycle</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> Excessive hype is always followed by a trough of disillusionment.</p><p>Pro Tip: Get out in front and mention this *before* taking your date home. Better for her to hear it from you than her working it out on her own ... :-)</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re:Stupid industry fads (Score:4, Insightful)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by CaptainDork ( 3678879 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>If smart phones and tablets are any indicator ...</p><p>AI, too, is an evolutionary dead end.</p><p>It's a buzz word with a vacuous definition.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Q-Hack! ( 37846 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Not a lot different than back in the 1950's when the trend was to create all manor of odd gadgets to make life easier. Those deemed useful are still around... The rest can be found in junk markets around the world. But hey, the Cracker-barrel's of the future will still need stuff to decorate their walls with.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by CaptainDork ( 3678879 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>In reaction to your sig:</p><p>I recently re-read "Nineteen Eighty-Four," because my first reading was so long ago.</p><p>Good read, but what a goddam depressing book!</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by magzteel ( 5013587 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> Excessive hype is always followed by a trough of disillusionment. But as the TOD fades, plenty of mature, practical applications are likely to emerge. The technological naysayers are usually even more wrong than the hypesters.</p><p>> [1]Hype cycle [wikipedia.org]</p><p>Back in the early PC days, when you had to hook up a cassette player to load your application, and then another one to load your data, we used to tell people they could store recipes on their TRS-80 personal computer. This was not much of a productivity enhancer. I'm sure based on this experience some people would have thought PC's were useless and had no future.</p><p>And then floppy disks and spreadsheets were invented.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hype_cycle</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by jythie ( 914043 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>It is really difficult to say if the naysayers or hypesters are more often right or wrong. One problem with looking back at negative guesses is we only really remember the ones that turned out to be wrong since the evidence is in modern use today, while all the naysayers that we right, well, the things they were right about faded into obscurity.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>You only count as a "true" naysayer if you are negative about an overhyped trend with groupies and fanbois, not about an obviously stupid idea.</p><p>The naysayers were right about the Segway, but that was an easy target, since it reached peak hype before it had even been shown to the public.</p><p>Other tech failures were Iridium, Zune, Pebble, Juicero. But none of these were hyped as world changing technology.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> In the long term only 1/20 companies really make it.</p><p>Success of a technology is rarely correlated with the success of particular companies. Silicon Valley is littered with plaques marking the graves of semiconductor pioneering companies. Few of them survived. Yet semiconductors have been the greatest technological success since fire was tamed.</p><p>For another example, look at aviation. It took 66 years to go from Kitty Hawk to the Sea of Tranquility. Yet how many airlines made money during those years? Almost none.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by atherophage ( 2481624 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Prognosticators have been wrong before. While it is easy to poke fun at the unusual who knows, perhaps in a few years dental floss will come with AI. The thought of not having AI floss will be unthinkable.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:3, Interesting)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Anonymous Coward</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>As much as I am a nerd, I blame "nerds" for this. There is this whole new fad of being a "techie", watching Big Bang Theory, owning a Tesla, and generally being absolutely ignorant about real science, technology and math while "pretending" to be a nerd. I used "pretending" but there may be some legitimate attempt but it is hard to tell if someone is a fake nerd or just a stupid nerd. I think this trend partly follows from women trying to follow the (tech) money and then men trying to follow the women.</p><p>This</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by AbRASiON ( 589899 ) *</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>I don't know that there's a lot of these people but they do exist, for certain yes. The 'watching big bang theory' is the kicker, once someone admits watching that, you know they're very unlikely to be a 'proper nerd' for lack of a better term.</p><p>Considering they only have partial skills in technology then, we can likely guess, if they work in the industry, they're probably higher on the ladder than us and paid more though :/ like most management / consultant types.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by JMJimmy ( 2036122 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>The thing no one can consider is time.</p><p>"AI" being jammed into things now is probably lame, awkward, and of very limited use. Much like computers were back in the punch card days with devices that. Less than 100 years later we've got computers in our pocket. We are in the early days of AI - we'll look back on it decades from now as we do with things like: [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]</p><p>This article is just another example of someone who can't see past their nose to the road ahead and the million differen</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp7MHZY2ADI</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by AHuxley ( 892839 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Good for a few workers over the decade of hype.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by m00sh ( 2538182 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> 3D printer in every home will fundamentally change human society</p><p>> IoT internet connected belt buckles and toothbrushes will take over the world</p><p>> AI will revolutionize consumer electronics</p><p>> Net PC from Sun will dominate the computer industry (this one is really old)</p><p>I don't know about home but it plays a big part in manufacturing. There are very specialized and successful medical companies that use 3d printing.</p><p>Don't know about belt buckles but fitbit, apple watch, garmin has been worth billions of dollars and fundamentally changed the way a lot of people do things.</p><p>I don't know about NetPC but what about the cloud? The hype that we would all put all our stuff in the cloud blah blah actually materialized. There are many companies who own no hardware except the dev la</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by lokedhs ( 672255 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Net PC was not from Sun. I should I know, I worked for them during that era. What they had was JavaStation, which was a neat idea but ahead of its time. That concept is now realised by the Chromebook. Net PC was a Compaq thing, if I recall correctly. However, Wikipedia tells me it was Oracle, so perhaps the Compaq device was called something else.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by bobbied ( 2522392 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> Example: Apple will go under...any day now....since 1984</p><p>But they've been totally correct in not predicting the "Year of the Linux Desktop" has come.</p><p>You win a few and lose a few.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by jythie ( 914043 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>*nod* to expand on this.... true, Apple never did go under. But look how many computer companies started up around the same time and did. It is fun to look at the successes and compare them to the naysayers who were wrong, but the ones who were right, well, their predictions did not leave much to talk about today.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re:Now With AI! (Score:5, Informative)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> Gee, I could have sworn we already HAD the AI craze back in the late 80s. Or was it early 90s?</p><p>It was the 1980s. It had faded long before 1990.</p><p>But there was an earlier AI craze in the 1960s, based on perceptrons. That faded by 1970.</p><p>The 1980 AI hype cycle was driven by "expert systems" and "Lisp machines".</p><p>The latest cycle started in 2006 with the publication of the [1]seminal paper on deep learning [sciencemag.org], and has so far lasted far longer than any previous AI hype cycle.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>[1] http://science.sciencemag.org/content/313/5786/504</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by CaptainDork ( 3678879 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>I go way back, too.</p><p>AI had an unambiguous definition that eroded under stress because the industry came to the realization that the "I" part (intelligence) used the human mind as the high bar.</p><p>The second epiphany came when no one could fabricate an AI that would simply refuse to cooperate if Facebook was unreachable.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Pseudonym ( 62607 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>In the 90s it was all "knowledge-based systems" and in the noughties it was all "intelligent agents".</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> In the 90s it was all "knowledge-based systems" and in the noughties it was all "intelligent agents".</p><p>Yes, but those generated far less hype than what happened in the 60s, 80s, and teenies.</p><p>The big things in the 90s and noughties were the web and e-commerce.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by CWCheese ( 729272 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Thanks for the Lisp reference! I fondly remember learning Lisp in an AI class during college in the 80s. Actually enjoyed programming Lisp because it could be so terse and do so much very rapidly. However, we really had no good applications to use for it, other than having an application learn the best way to win a chess game. I chose not to pursue AI as a career and haven't suffered for that.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> I chose not to pursue AI as a career and haven't suffered for that.</p><p>Learning Lisp would not have helped you. Modern AI uses mostly Python based libraries such as Tensorflow and PyTorch. C++ is used for performance critical stuff. Nobody uses Lisp for AI anymore. It was a dead end.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Fifth Generation (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by mcswell ( 1102107 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Fueling the hype in the 1980s AI cycle was the Japanese Fifth Generation project, for which a stated goal was to leapfrog the West's computer technology and skills. People like Edward Feigenbaum and Pamela McCorduck used the FUD generated around this project to call for increased funding, claiming in their 1983 book 'The Fifth Generation: Japan’s Computer Challenge to the World' that "America needs a national plan of action, a kind of space shuttle program for the knowledge systems of the future." A</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Torodung ( 31985 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> Cats on the blockchain, anyone?</p><p>Well, at the very least, every zig should be on the blockchain. Don't know about Cats.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>You can stop reading at "Orlowski" (Score:4, Interesting)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by serviscope_minor ( 664417 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Andrew Orlowski of The Register is basically a professional dickhead. His main goal seems to be to be as obnoxious and ignorant as possible presumably with the goal of trolling the readership. He's pretty much the reason I stopped reading the Register because of the constant streem of utter bullshit from that guy.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re:You can stop reading at "Orlowski" (Score:4, Interesting)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by starless ( 60879 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>And also appears to be climate change denier....</p><p>(at least for some of his Register articles.)</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by TJ_Phazerhacki ( 520002 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>So, Walt Mossberg for a new generation? Shutup!</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>AI in a Toaster! (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Zorro ( 15797 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Red Dwarf has already shown why this is a BAD Idea.</p><p>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhnN4eUiei4</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Revek ( 133289 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Please learn basic html K, thanks.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by AbRASiON ( 589899 ) *</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>How about slashdot stop being entirely backwards with that shit instead?</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Applehu Akbar ( 2968043 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>But I do like being able to verbally ask my phone to navigate to a contact, without having to squint at a screen in the sun, and get turn by turn directions. Digital assistants have slipped into a place in my life where they do a few useful things. As time goes on, this set will grow larger.</p><p>But I know: "If it works, it's not AI!" "If it's AI, it won't work!"</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Aibo (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Anonymous Coward</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>If Sony's Aibo lives up to the demos I have seen - that would be one big application. AI as a pet.</p><p>I also use AI (maybe more ML) all the time with photo sorting, image recognition, etc. It is already in the home.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>OP must be joking... (Score:4, Insightful)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by JoeDuncan ( 874519 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>... because consumer AI is *ALREADY* ubiquitous and all around us.</p><p>From the face detection in your phone, to the fuzzy logic controllers in washing machines, to the ant colony algorithms being used to route network traffic, to finding directions with google maps, to Netflix and Amazon's recommendation algorithms, to OCR for cheques and mail, to NEST thermostats, to robot vacuum cleaners and lawn mowers, to expert systems in medical diagnosis... (I could keep going)</p><p>AI in consumer products is literally *already* ALL around us.</p><p>Saying that consumer AI "has no future" is like looking around at the world today and saying "personal cars have no future" - it's completely idiotic because to anyone with half an ounce of perception that future is ALREADY here.</p><p>It's like looking at a forest and claiming there are no trees</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by grahamsz ( 150076 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Yeah it seems like it is a natural fit in optimizing the things we do.</p><p>Even though I don't routinely use my phone as an alarm clock, it still knows when i'm likely to get up and if I plug it in at bed time it'll do a good job of figuring out when i'm likely to get up and adjusts its charging rate to be done about an hour before then. Yet if I plug it in a 3pm then it'll assume i want as much charge as possible and charge as fast as it can. It's not rocket science, but it's useful.</p><p>Do I need a dishwasher with</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by JoeDuncan ( 874519 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> Do I need a dishwasher with a screen that I can talk to?</p><p>Nope, but I'm willing to bet it has an embedded fuzzy logic controller in it to control water levels.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by mcswell ( 1102107 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>"Do I need a dishwasher with a screen that I can talk to?" Printers have a screen. You can't talk to it (at least you're not supposed to--when aggravated, I've been know to do so, and not kindly). But try to decipher what's on that screen. I claim that printers are not any easier to use than they were in 1984 (which is when I got my first dot matrix printer). You (ok, I) *still* can't figure out what's wrong with them, despite the screen.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by JoeDuncan ( 874519 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> None of the tings you mention actually contain any real artificial intelligence in the sense of being able to making decisions in the face of unknown circumstances and data sources.</p><p>They do actually.</p><p>Roombas have to be able to adapt to unknown obstacles and uncertain sensory input (could get blocked, partially occluded etc...).</p><p>Embedded fuzzy logic controllers (also used in anti-lock brakes) have to be able to maintain a steady output signal given uncertain input (wear and tear on the mechanics, grit...) that can vary wildly in an unknown manner.</p><p>OCR systems need to be able to tell the difference between a cheque and unknown things, like night club flyers, and they deal with hand written</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by AHuxley ( 892839 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Re "face detection" is not AI. Its a really big and fast database. Filled with faces the police know about and random people walking past CCTV.</p><p>Re "fuzzy logic controllers in washing machines" A set amount of power, water, weight of laundry is not AI. Just good programming within set limits.</p><p>Re "'finding directions" with maps that are created and set.</p><p>Re "recommendation algorithms" that is set by past people buying things and another person showing the same interests. More to do with collecting lots</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by JoeDuncan ( 874519 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> ..."face detection" is not AI. Its a really big and fast database. Filled with faces the police know...</p><p>...and just HOW do the faces "police know" get matched to this database? Explain without reference to AI.</p><p>> ..."fuzzy logic controllers in washing machines" A set amount of power, water, weight of laundry is not AI.</p><p>No it isn't, but you're a fool if you think your washing machine is that simple these days. It DOES take fuzzy logic to adapt to things like wear and tear on the machine, arbitrarily changing water pressures and temperatures, etc... and still maintain consistent performance.</p><p>> "'finding directions" with maps that are created and set.</p><p>...and using AI algorithms to find the best path.</p><p>Blah blah blah... you get the point. You've deliberately downplayed the AI aspect</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by JoeDuncan ( 874519 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>You are clearly uneducated, Troll.</p><p>If you actually wish to enlighten yourself, I'd start here: [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_intelligence</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by hazem ( 472289 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> From the face detection in your phone, to the fuzzy logic controllers in washing machines, to the ant colony algorithms being used to route network traffic, to finding directions with google maps, to Netflix and Amazon's recommendation algorithms, to OCR for cheques and mail, to NEST thermostats, to robot vacuum cleaners and lawn mowers, to expert systems in medical diagnosis... (I could keep going)</p><p>When I took an AI class a few years ago, one of my favorite things the professor said was, "What we called 'AI' yesterday is simply the algorithm for how we do a thing today."</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>AI's Strength (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by thePsychologist ( 1062886 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>AI (i.e. machine learning/neural networks) is really good at optimizing stuff, so its natural strength shows when you have hundreds of thousands of entities in a system. Examples are the electricity grid, playing Go, and a department store's inventory.</p><p>In our individual lives, AI seems more like another drop in the bucket of too much technology, and I think one day we'll realize that less is more when it comes to the stuff in our homes.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Getting concerned myself (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by SuperKendall ( 25149 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>I was looking at new fridges recently as a friend was asking for a recommendation, and it's alarming how trying to find a fridge without a screen is getting to be like trying to find a cell phone without a camera... it really limits your options.</p><p>The only way they could make fridges any worse is the if screens also played CNN constantly when not in use, like in an airport... you can absolutely see subsidized ad-fridges coming down the pipeline.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by lgw ( 121541 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Seems like only the highest and lowest-end fridges lack screens these days (as well as ice/water in the door, something else I could do without).</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by mcswell ( 1102107 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Come to my house. The refr *has* an ice/water dispenser in the door, but it hasn't worked for over a year. I think the tube to the water dispenser is frozen, and if it gets thawed, it just freezes up again. Same with the water dispenser on the refr nearest my office at work.</p><p>As for the ice dispenser on our refr, we never used it, so I took it out and got lots more room in the freezer. If we want ice cubes, we make them in trays, like the 1960s.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by sheramil ( 921315 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> What the hell does a fridge need a screen for?</p><p>You can connect it to a webcam inside the fridge and see if the light goes out when you close the door.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>I remember a time... (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Dallas May ( 4891515 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>My uncle was a computer scientist for a National Lab. He retired 15 or so years ago. I remember just after my grandmother first got internet, he didn't have it at his home yet because he didn't believe it was safe -this was probably 1997 or 98, and I remember him talking to me about how disappointed he was with the internet. "It was supposed to be this great thing. It's useless. It'll never amount to anything."</p><p>Yeah, he was wrong.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by bobbied ( 2522392 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> My uncle was a computer scientist for a National Lab. He retired 15 or so years ago. I remember just after my grandmother first got internet, he didn't have it at his home yet because he didn't believe it was safe -this was probably 1997 or 98, and I remember him talking to me about how disappointed he was with the internet. "It was supposed to be this great thing. It's useless. It'll never amount to anything."</p><p>> Yeah, he was wrong.</p><p>Was he? Was he really?</p><p>How much of the internet is truly useful and how much is just trash? Judging by my inbox, the number of E-mail in my inbox the ratio 1s more than 10 to 1 SPAM to worth while messages (And that's AFTER the SPAM filters.)</p><p>I find that this ratio pretty much governs the whole of the internet.. Where 1/10th of it is actually something of use and the rest is just useless junk.</p><p>So he's not that wrong.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by mcswell ( 1102107 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>And here you (and I) are.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>I heard... (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Hentai007 ( 188457 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>AI is turning frogs gay.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by AbRASiON ( 589899 ) *</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>That's actually not true, the frogs are only gay for pay.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Nobody buys something because of AI (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Laxator2 ( 973549 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>I did not see any example where someone says: "I did not buy that product because it lacked AI".</p><p>I did not hear from anyone that they need AI so they are going out of their way to buy it. In its current form AI is good for pattern recognition in some cases, for example, face identification in photos.</p><p>The only customers are corporations with massive collections of personal data to analyze, but not individual consumers.</p><p>I believe AI has been over-hyped and pushed in areas where it is not usable in its current form (like self-driving cars) and we start to see the backlash.</p><p>I've already seen stories saying that the medical diagnoses made by IBM's Watson are just plain wrong. More examples will follow.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by m00sh ( 2538182 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> I did not see any example where someone says: "I did not buy that product because it lacked AI".</p><p>> I did not hear from anyone that they need AI so they are going out of their way to buy it. In its current form AI is good for pattern recognition in some cases, for example, face identification in photos. The only customers are corporations with massive collections of personal data to analyze, but not individual consumers. I believe AI has been over-hyped and pushed in areas where it is not usable in its current form (like self-driving cars) and we start to see the backlash.</p><p>> I've already seen stories saying that the medical diagnoses made by IBM's Watson are just plain wrong. More examples will follow.</p><p>What about Google home and Alexa?</p><p>How do you recognize pedestrians in self-driving cars without AI?</p><p>IBM Watson was wrong quite a bit but it won jeopardy.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>First they ignore you, ... (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Maxo-Texas ( 864189 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.</p><p>Mahatma Gandhi</p><p>This field is moving so fast compared to the 90s.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>It's a dead end because it's not very good anyway (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Rick Schumann ( 4662797 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>So-called 'AI' is over-hyped and under-performing.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Another AI winter? (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by OneHundredAndTen ( 1523865 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>The AI bubble seems to be starting to deflate. It may not pop, but it will likely carry on shrinking. Most people already know that Alex and co. are little more than gimmicks, good for party games, grins and giggles, and little more. The AI community seems to be making the same mistakes they made in the late 60s and 70s. The second AI winter is nigh.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>how do you see non-existent things ? (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by bingoUV ( 1066850 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>If Consumer AI doesn't have a future, how can that non-existent future be seen ?</p><p>In an alternative interpretation, the author has seen the future of Consumer AI and so of course it exists. But the future of the future of Consumer AI doesn't exist. I.e. Future of Consumer AI doesn't have one - where "one" stands for future.</p><p>Any other interpretations ?</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>It's not "Consumer AI" (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by themusicgod1 ( 241799 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Since the consumer is not control of it.</p><p></p><p>It's Anti-Consumer AI if anything</p></div>
+ </div>
+</div>
+</body>
--- /dev/null
+ SOFTWARE DEVELOPERS ARE NOW MORE VALUABLE TO COMPANIES THAN \r
+ MONEY, SAYS SURVEY (CNBC.COM) \r
+\r
+ Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (BeauHD)\r
+ from the new-breed-of-corporate-leaders dept.\r
+\r
+ o News link: https://developers.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2024232/software-developers-are-now-more-valuable-to-companies-than-money-says-survey\r
+ o Source link: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/06/companies-worry-more-about-access-to-software-developers-than-capital.html\r
+\r
+\r
+ An anonymous reader quotes a report from CNBC: As our global\r
+ economy increasingly comes to run on technology-enabled rails\r
+ and every company becomes a tech company, demand for\r
+ high-quality software engineers is at an all-time high. A\r
+ recent study from Stripe and Harris Poll found that 61 percent\r
+ of C-suite executives believe access to developer talent is a\r
+ threat to the success of their business. Perhaps more\r
+ surprisingly -- as we mark a decade after the financial crisis\r
+ -- this threat was even ranked above capital constraints. And\r
+ yet, despite being many corporations' most precious resource,\r
+ developer talents are all too often squandered. Collectively,\r
+ companies today lose upward of $300 billion a year paying down\r
+ "technical debt," as developers pour time into maintaining\r
+ legacy systems or dealing with the ramifications of bad\r
+ software. This is especially worrisome, given the outsized\r
+ impact developers have on companies' chances of success.\r
+ Software developers don't have a monopoly on good ideas, but\r
+ their skill set makes them a uniquely deep source of\r
+ innovation, productivity and new economic connections. When\r
+ deployed correctly, developers can be economic multipliers --\r
+ coefficients that dramatically ratchet up the output of the\r
+ teams and companies of which they're a part.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** So why not treat them well? (Score:5, Insightful)\r
+ (by gweihir ( 88907 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Naa, that would be un-capitalist. Developers must be cheap\r
+ wage-slaves that do not have a real career-path and are unable\r
+ to find a job once they hit 50. That will surely not have any\r
+ impact on whether smart people go into software writing or not,\r
+ right?\r
+\r
+ ** Re: So why not treat them well? (Score:1)\r
+ (by Dannis12345 ( 5512754 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ This is really true. As the fact that the IT leads the world.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3)\r
+ (by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > But even so, I hear these horror stories about how\r
+ > software developers are treated and I just have not seen\r
+ > it.\r
+ Me neither. I have worked for companies that had catered\r
+ meals, free soda, laundry service, sky diving bonding\r
+ trips, etc. I have had plenty of opportunities to travel.\r
+ I have worked some late nights, and done a few death\r
+ marches, but those only lasted a few weeks, out of a\r
+ career lasting decades.\r
+ Software developers are likely the most spoiled employees\r
+ in the history of the world.\r
+ People will alway whine.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by gweihir ( 88907 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > People will alway whine.\r
+ And there you are wrong. I have a pretty good career\r
+ myself. But I see how many coders are treated and I am\r
+ not surprised at all that there are by far not enough\r
+ good ones.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:1)\r
+ (by NicknameUnavailable ( 4134147 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ As much as I'm for better treatment and perks for\r
+ coders, the issue of "not enough good ones" isn't\r
+ because of that. There's only so many smart people,\r
+ dumb people and mediocre people don't make good\r
+ coders. Some of the above-average ones might make\r
+ the cut as maintenance coders or some incredibly\r
+ soul-crushing AGILE environment where they don't\r
+ actually have to think, but for the most part any\r
+ programming position of note requires a 150+ IQ to\r
+ do even moderately well.\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by HornWumpus ( 783565 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ How many 3+ standard deviation people are we\r
+ supposed to believe you know?\r
+ Same crit as you gave the GP. I doubt you know\r
+ even one.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by gweihir ( 88907 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ The issue is very much that a lot of the few\r
+ people that could be good at it, see the working\r
+ conditions and career options and go somewhere\r
+ else. Also, 150+IQ people basically do not exist.\r
+ I gather this is some wired non-standard US\r
+ scale...\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3)\r
+ (by _Sharp'r_ ( 649297 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Having a measured IQ >150, I can tell you with\r
+ my excellent two-minute Googling skills there\r
+ are approximately 300K in the U.S. if you're\r
+ using the Stanford-Binet scale. For the\r
+ Wechsler scale, it's more like 140K, which is\r
+ still a lot of people. Heck, the Prometheus\r
+ Society's cut-off for membership is 160+. I\r
+ guess to you, they basically don't exist...\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > ... see the working conditions and career\r
+ > options and go somewhere else.\r
+ Where do they go?\r
+ Doctors, lawyers and investment bankers work\r
+ longer hours than programmers. Nearly everyone\r
+ else makes less money.\r
+ Maybe they become underwater welders?\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re:So why not treat them well? (Score:5, Interesting)\r
+ (by spagthorpe ( 111133 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ It won't really have any impact, because young people don't\r
+ think they'll ever get old. Or it will be different for them.\r
+ Had a 20-something at my last job make a number of comments\r
+ about some of the older developers there, saying they'd hate\r
+ to still be working at that age, and that they are probably\r
+ stuck doing the same work because they can't learn anything\r
+ new. I don't know why he was telling me this, as I was twice\r
+ his age at the time, but it's obvious that he doesn't think\r
+ he'll be in the same position.\r
+ They ultimately did lay off a lot of their senior engineers\r
+ and replace a lot of the position with 20-somethings,\r
+ including in project management positions. A number of those\r
+ projects never saw the light of day after years of re-writes\r
+ into new frameworks.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** And yet there's agile (Score:2)\r
+ (by xxxJonBoyxxx ( 565205 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ And open concept offices.\r
+\r
+ ** Re:And yet there's agile (Score:5, Interesting)\r
+ (by Seven Spirals ( 4924941 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ I've quit one job and refused two others because of open\r
+ offices. The two I refused were absolutely flabbergasted by\r
+ my refusal. They literally could not understand why anyone\r
+ wouldn't want to be in an open office space surrounded on 3.8\r
+ sides by glass-walled manager offices, loud ugly marketing\r
+ girls, and a bunch of H1B dudes who couldn't be bothered to\r
+ wear deodorant. That place (MX Logic) had the worst looking\r
+ office I've ever seen. One of them offered me the job on the\r
+ spot after the interview and I was already shutting them down\r
+ and refusing it before they even got started. I told them\r
+ there is about a zero percent chance of getting anyone really\r
+ talented to take the gig, because they had this ridiculous\r
+ noisy slave pit thing going. I nearly left before I even\r
+ *did* the interview I was so disgusted with the place. The\r
+ hiring manager was (of course) offended, but he was also\r
+ clueless. About a year after that interview I had a guy come\r
+ up to me at the local Maker Space who was one of the\r
+ "technical resources" for the company during the interview\r
+ (quiet guy in the back of the room). He told me "My god was I\r
+ cheering when you refused them over the goddamn open\r
+ workspace idiocy. My boss was upset over that for weeks. They\r
+ still talk about it during the hiring process and argue about\r
+ it."\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:1)\r
+ (by bkmoore ( 1910118 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > ....One of them offered me the job on the spot after the\r
+ > interview and I was already shutting them down and\r
+ > refusing it before they even got started.....\r
+ It begs the question, why even apply there in the first\r
+ place.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3)\r
+ (by Klaxton ( 609696 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > It begs the question, why even apply there in the first\r
+ > place.\r
+ So you could see their office environment tucked away\r
+ behind the job description on the internet?\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by Ocker3 ( 1232550 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ "But I can See everyone and I know that they're working" -\r
+ Manager If someone doesn't know enough about their direct\r
+ report's job that they don't know whether they're working\r
+ or not without seeing them at their desk, there's a\r
+ problem. Not all jobs are reduced in efficiency by a\r
+ cubicle farm, but if your job is primarily about mental\r
+ focus for the time-intensive tasks, then most people will\r
+ benefit from having their own room. And the employer will\r
+ probably benefit enough that an actual room is a\r
+ worthwhile\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by erp_consultant ( 2614861 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Sounds like a real horror show. Safe to say you made the\r
+ right move.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3)\r
+ (by Klaxton ( 609696 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ I've worked in the industry for many years, usually with a\r
+ private office or shared with one person. Recently got a job\r
+ in an agile "scrum" shop, which went to an open floorplan a\r
+ few months later. Miserable experience on both counts. Every\r
+ day you get a Jira work ticket for some "the user wants to\r
+ see" granule of a thing that you had no part in designing.\r
+ Zero privacy. It is amazingly de-motivating.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by HornWumpus ( 783565 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Microsoft owns javascript? You have things backwards.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by gweihir ( 88907 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ I was thinking the same thing. Although JavaScript, Java,\r
+ and the surrounding ecosystems could have come from MS, no\r
+ doubt.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Yeah, right (Score:5, Insightful)\r
+ (by Anonymous Coward)\r
+\r
+ \r
+ If they considered developers more important than money, they'd\r
+ pay the developers more to keep the skilled ones. Every time a\r
+ developer leaves a company, a hunk of business knowledge walks\r
+ out the door with him.\r
+ Companies care about that quarter's finance report, and the\r
+ C-level execs care only about fleecing the company for all they\r
+ can stuff into their own pockets. Look at what they do, not what\r
+ some survey says.\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3, Interesting)\r
+ (by Anonymous Coward)\r
+\r
+ \r
+ LOL. You've massively understated the ageism and the issue\r
+ of job qualifications.\r
+ First, the ageism problem is associated also with a\r
+ problem that people aren't allowed to take breaks. After\r
+ having great success even to the point of being a chief\r
+ architect on an 80-man program, I quit working for a while\r
+ and now can't find anyone who will let me start at the\r
+ bottom.\r
+ But, the job qualification thing is really ridiculous. A\r
+ good software engineer is a specialist at picking up new\r
+ domains, languages, frameworks,\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by Anonymous Brave Guy ( 457657 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > Don't know where you live, but in most places I think\r
+ > developers are paid fairly well. We offer\r
+ > straight-out-of-school newbies $80-$90k, and still some\r
+ > turn us down for better offers.\r
+ Most places are not the Bay Area or a few big US cities.\r
+ In most of the world, new starter salaries in software\r
+ development are rarely more than 1/3 of that level, and in\r
+ many places they are much lower.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by Ocker3 ( 1232550 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Your post is probably at zero rep because it was posted\r
+ AC, but you make good points.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3)\r
+ (by Klaxton ( 609696 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Software developers generally have to do what they are told,\r
+ and work on whatever the boss thinks is important. You don't\r
+ get to decide whether it is going to bring in money or not.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Yeah haven't heard that one before (Score:2)\r
+ (by Crashmarik ( 635988 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Maybe it just sounds too much like 40 years of businesses\r
+ claiming there was a shortage of engineers in the U.S. when what\r
+ they meant was there was a shortage of engineers that could be\r
+ treated really badly.\r
+ Or maybe it's the fact that companies only seem to be willing to\r
+ hire H1Bs that will do anything not to go back to their\r
+ shitholes, or young kids who are stupid enough to believe\r
+ managements promises and have no family or social life to\r
+ distract from putting in 80+ hour weeks ?\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by zlives ( 2009072 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ you misread, and i quote\r
+ "developer talent is a threat to the success of their\r
+ business" thus the hiring of no talent, spot filling h1b. and\r
+ if they accidentally get a talented h1b... replace and\r
+ repeat.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** FTFY (Score:5, Funny)\r
+ (by thevirtualcat ( 1071504 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Software Developers Who Are Willing To Work For Uncompetitive\r
+ Wages And No Benefits Are Now More Valuable To Companies Than\r
+ Money, Says Survey\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by Seven Spirals ( 4924941 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Fucking-A right. Period.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** .ORG (Score:4, Insightful)\r
+ (by fluffernutter ( 1411889 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ This just tells me that developers need to get organized and\r
+ start saying no to 80+ work weeks collectively. Otherwise it\r
+ will be divided they fall, forever.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by Ocker3 ( 1232550 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ How do we re-invent Unions without calling them Unions and\r
+ avoid the very real baggage that the term has in the USA?\r
+ Guilds?\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** In other news... (Score:1)\r
+ (by Robobox Computer ( 5357621 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ The sun rose today.\r
+\r
+ ** Legacy systems are out of control (Score:2)\r
+ (by xack ( 5304745 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Microsoft has just announced paid extended support for Windows 7\r
+ as too many companies are using it. There’s a lot of server 2003\r
+ systems out there too, with companies rather risking security\r
+ exploits than upgrade.\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by Ocker3 ( 1232550 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ A pity that new features aren't separated from security\r
+ patches to allow users to keep their old platform secure\r
+ without feature changes.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by xvan ( 2935999 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > Newer file browsers no longer let you edit the file path,\r
+ > you have to click on everything to get somewhere\r
+ Ctrl+L , no, you don't need to thank me.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:1)\r
+ (by Anonymous Coward)\r
+\r
+ \r
+ So I'm supposed to upgrade the single Windows 2003 system I\r
+ have, running as a non-networked VM, hosting a proprietary\r
+ application on a system we need to lookup legacy data that\r
+ never changes so I can pay to upgrade to a modern system,\r
+ figure out a way to migrate the data from one proprietary\r
+ application to a new and different system just so I can have\r
+ support I don't need on a system that can't realistically be\r
+ exploited in the first place?\r
+ OR I'm supposed to pay a premium for extended support on the\r
+ curren\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3)\r
+ (by gweihir ( 88907 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ That is a different problem. Their new offerings are just\r
+ really bad. Also, nobody sane used MS crap on server-side.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Yet us 50+ folks are unemployed (Score:4, Informative)\r
+ (by Snotnose ( 212196 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Forget how long I've been out of work, it's been 2-3 years now\r
+ since I quit looking.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3)\r
+ (by Locke2005 ( 849178 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ I'm 57 and got at least 3 calls TODAY offering to submit me\r
+ for contract software positions. Granted, a lot of recruiters\r
+ try to low-ball me on the hourly rate, but they change their\r
+ tune as soon as you call their bluff and tell them you're not\r
+ interested at that low rate.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:1)\r
+ (by Anonymous Coward)\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > I'm 57 and got at least 3 calls TODAY offering to submit\r
+ > me for contract software positions. Granted, a lot of\r
+ > recruiters try to low-ball me on the hourly rate, but they\r
+ > change their tune as soon as you call their bluff and tell\r
+ > them you're not interested at that low rate.\r
+ I get recruiters wanting to submit me all the time. Then\r
+ after a week, I follow up and the "the position is\r
+ closed." I think recruiters are assholes who got fired\r
+ from see car lots for ethics violations.\r
+ So, when you get a real job with health insurance, you'll\r
+ be an outlier.\r
+ Of course, that's assumimg you're not full of shit.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by Locke2005 ( 849178 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ I agree; I regard recruiters as people that weren't\r
+ ethical enough to get jobs as used car salesmen. I\r
+ interviewed for a job once, didn't get any response, so\r
+ I started another position. A month after the initial\r
+ interview, the recruiter for the first position offered\r
+ me $1500 cash in a plain, unmarked envelope to quit the\r
+ job I'd just started and take the other position\r
+ instead! (Apparently the cash came out of his\r
+ commission.) So yes, recruiters know nothing, rely\r
+ almost entirely on keyword searching in r\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** So, the old adage? (Score:2)\r
+ (by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Employees are our most valuable asset? I'm pretty sure it's\r
+ actually still money.\r
+\r
+ ** Nonsensical headline... (Score:2)\r
+ (by JoeDuncan ( 874519 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ It's like saying "gold is worth more than money!" - totally\r
+ meaningless.\r
+ One (gold, developers) is a commodity that IS exchanged, the\r
+ other (money) is the medium OF exchange.\r
+ Saying that "commodity X" is worth more than "exchange medium Y"\r
+ makes no sense because a commodity CANNOT be worth "more" or\r
+ "less" than the medium of exchange used - it can only ever be\r
+ worth a specified amount of Y.\r
+\r
+ ** Talk about not understanding an article / Poll (Score:2)\r
+ (by Harlequin80 ( 1671040 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ No where does it say that companies think developers are more\r
+ important than money.\r
+ The results state that the companies perceive the risk of not\r
+ being able to find skills as higher than the risks of not being\r
+ able to access capital.\r
+ This is especially true if you're a cash rich organisation.\r
+ In the current financial climate finding returns on your\r
+ investments is hard. Interest rates are at historically low\r
+ levels, bond returns are zero, and so that leaves higher risk\r
+ investments to get returns. That effecti\r
+\r
+ ** lots of employees are "worth more than money"... (Score:2)\r
+ (by bkmoore ( 1910118 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ What management school fails to teach young inexperienced\r
+ executives: If the company's future existence depends on whether\r
+ or not an employee does the job correctly or not, they are\r
+ "worth more than money".\r
+\r
+ ** Tech debt is a business decision (Score:2)\r
+ (by swm ( 171547 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Incurring technical debt is a business decision.\r
+ And it may well be the right decision.\r
+ For example, in a startup, time to market typically trumps\r
+ software quality.\r
+ And there are a lot of startups in the software field...\r
+\r
+ ** Not at my compamy (Score:1)\r
+ (by dccase ( 56453 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Not at my company, and certainly not at any other\r
+ publicly-traded company.\r
+ Maybe at some privately-held company until it gets bought out.\r
+\r
+ ** Employees are our Most Valuable Asset (Score:3)\r
+ (by R3d M3rcury ( 871886 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Right behind [1]carbon paper. [dilbert.com]\r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ [1] http://dilbert.com/strip/1993-03-03\r
+\r
+ ** And this is why we keep them chained to (Score:2)\r
+ (by Ranger ( 1783 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ a cubicle.\r
+\r
+\r
--- /dev/null
+0Software Developers Are Now More Valuable To Companies Than Money, Says Survey (cnbc.com) null/SLASHDOT/0102640098 70\r
+i Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (BeauHD)\r
+i from the new-breed-of-corporate-leaders dept.\r
+i\r
+i An anonymous reader quotes a report from CNBC: As our global\r
+i economy increasingly comes to run on technology-enabled rails\r
+i and every company becomes a tech company, demand for\r
+i high-quality software engineers is at an all-time high. A\r
+i recent study from Stripe and Harris Poll found that 61 percent\r
+i of C-suite executives believe access to developer talent is a\r
+i threat to the success of their business. Perhaps more\r
+i surprisingly -- as we mark a decade after the financial crisis\r
+i -- this threat was even ranked above capital constraints. And\r
+i yet, despite being many corporations' most precious resource,\r
+i developer talents are all too often squandered. Collectively,\r
+i companies today lose upward of $300 billion a year paying down\r
+i "technical debt," as developers pour time into maintaining\r
+i legacy systems or dealing with the ramifications of bad\r
+i software. This is especially worrisome, given the outsized\r
+i impact developers have on companies' chances of success.\r
+i Software developers don't have a monopoly on good ideas, but\r
+i their skill set makes them a uniquely deep source of\r
+i innovation, productivity and new economic connections. When\r
+i deployed correctly, developers can be economic multipliers --\r
+i coefficients that dramatically ratchet up the output of the\r
+i teams and companies of which they're a part.\r
+i\r
--- /dev/null
+<!DOCTYPE html>
+<html>
+<head>
+ <meta http-equiv='content-type' content='text/html; charset=utf-8'>
+ <meta name='viewport' content='width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0'>
+ <style type='text/css'>
+ body { margin: 1em 15%; }
+ </style>
+</head>
+<body>
+<div class='story-header'>
+ <h1><a href='0102640098.html'>Software Developers Are Now More Valuable To Companies Than Money, Says Survey (cnbc.com)</a></h1>
+ <div class='details'>(Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (BeauHD)
+from the new-breed-of-corporate-leaders dept.)</div>
+ <br/>
+ <div class='content' style='text-align: justify'>
+ An anonymous reader quotes a report from CNBC: As our global economy increasingly comes to run on technology-enabled rails and every company becomes a tech company, demand for high-quality software engineers is at an all-time high. A recent study from Stripe and Harris Poll found that 61 percent of C-suite executives believe access to developer talent is a threat to the success of their business. Perhaps more surprisingly -- as we mark a decade after the financial crisis -- this threat was even ranked above capital constraints. And yet, despite being many corporations' most precious resource, developer talents are all too often squandered. Collectively, companies today lose upward of $300 billion a year paying down "technical debt," as developers pour time into maintaining legacy systems or dealing with the ramifications of bad software. This is especially worrisome, given the outsized impact developers have on companies' chances of success. Software developers don't have a monopoly on good ideas, but their skill set makes them a uniquely deep source of innovation, productivity and new economic connections. When deployed correctly, developers can be economic multipliers -- coefficients that dramatically ratchet up the output of the teams and companies of which they're a part.
+ </div>
+<hr/>
+</div>
+</body>
--- /dev/null
+<!DOCTYPE html>
+<html>
+<head>
+ <meta http-equiv='content-type' content='text/html; charset=utf-8'>
+ <meta name='viewport' content='width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0'>
+ <style type='text/css'>
+ body { margin: 1em 15%; }
+ </style>
+</head>
+<body>
+<div class='story'>
+ <h1>Software Developers Are Now More Valuable To Companies Than Money, Says Survey (cnbc.com)</h1>
+ <div class='details'>(Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (BeauHD)
+from the new-breed-of-corporate-leaders dept.)</div>
+ <br/>
+ <ul>
+ <li>News link: <a href='https://developers.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2024232/software-developers-are-now-more-valuable-to-companies-than-money-says-survey'>https://developers.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2024232/software-developers-are-now-more-valuable-to-companies-than-money-says-survey</a></li>
+ <li>Source link: <a href='https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/06/companies-worry-more-about-access-to-software-developers-than-capital.html'>https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/06/companies-worry-more-about-access-to-software-developers-than-capital.html</a></li>
+ </ul>
+ <br/>
+ <div class='content' style='text-align: justify'>
+ An anonymous reader quotes a report from CNBC: As our global economy increasingly comes to run on technology-enabled rails and every company becomes a tech company, demand for high-quality software engineers is at an all-time high. A recent study from Stripe and Harris Poll found that 61 percent of C-suite executives believe access to developer talent is a threat to the success of their business. Perhaps more surprisingly -- as we mark a decade after the financial crisis -- this threat was even ranked above capital constraints. And yet, despite being many corporations' most precious resource, developer talents are all too often squandered. Collectively, companies today lose upward of $300 billion a year paying down "technical debt," as developers pour time into maintaining legacy systems or dealing with the ramifications of bad software. This is especially worrisome, given the outsized impact developers have on companies' chances of success. Software developers don't have a monopoly on good ideas, but their skill set makes them a uniquely deep source of innovation, productivity and new economic connections. When deployed correctly, developers can be economic multipliers -- coefficients that dramatically ratchet up the output of the teams and companies of which they're a part.
+ </div>
+<hr/>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>So why not treat them well? (Score:5, Insightful)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by gweihir ( 88907 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Naa, that would be un-capitalist. Developers must be cheap wage-slaves that do not have a real career-path and are unable to find a job once they hit 50. That will surely not have any impact on whether smart people go into software writing or not, right?</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: So why not treat them well? (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Dannis12345 ( 5512754 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>This is really true. As the fact that the IT leads the world.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> But even so, I hear these horror stories about how software developers are treated and I just have not seen it.</p><p>Me neither. I have worked for companies that had catered meals, free soda, laundry service, sky diving bonding trips, etc. I have had plenty of opportunities to travel. I have worked some late nights, and done a few death marches, but those only lasted a few weeks, out of a career lasting decades.</p><p>Software developers are likely the most spoiled employees in the history of the world.</p><p>People will alway whine.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by gweihir ( 88907 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> People will alway whine.</p><p>And there you are wrong. I have a pretty good career myself. But I see how many coders are treated and I am not surprised at all that there are by far not enough good ones.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by NicknameUnavailable ( 4134147 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>As much as I'm for better treatment and perks for coders, the issue of "not enough good ones" isn't because of that. There's only so many smart people, dumb people and mediocre people don't make good coders. Some of the above-average ones might make the cut as maintenance coders or some incredibly soul-crushing AGILE environment where they don't actually have to think, but for the most part any programming position of note requires a 150+ IQ to do even moderately well.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by HornWumpus ( 783565 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>How many 3+ standard deviation people are we supposed to believe you know?</p><p>Same crit as you gave the GP. I doubt you know even one.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by gweihir ( 88907 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>The issue is very much that a lot of the few people that could be good at it, see the working conditions and career options and go somewhere else. Also, 150+IQ people basically do not exist. I gather this is some wired non-standard US scale...</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by _Sharp'r_ ( 649297 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Having a measured IQ >150, I can tell you with my excellent two-minute Googling skills there are approximately 300K in the U.S. if you're using the Stanford-Binet scale. For the Wechsler scale, it's more like 140K, which is still a lot of people. Heck, the Prometheus Society's cut-off for membership is 160+. I guess to you, they basically don't exist...</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> ... see the working conditions and career options and go somewhere else.</p><p>Where do they go?</p><p>Doctors, lawyers and investment bankers work longer hours than programmers. Nearly everyone else makes less money.</p><p>Maybe they become underwater welders?</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re:So why not treat them well? (Score:5, Interesting)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by spagthorpe ( 111133 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>It won't really have any impact, because young people don't think they'll ever get old. Or it will be different for them.</p><p>Had a 20-something at my last job make a number of comments about some of the older developers there, saying they'd hate to still be working at that age, and that they are probably stuck doing the same work because they can't learn anything new. I don't know why he was telling me this, as I was twice his age at the time, but it's obvious that he doesn't think he'll be in the same position.</p><p>They ultimately did lay off a lot of their senior engineers and replace a lot of the position with 20-somethings, including in project management positions. A number of those projects never saw the light of day after years of re-writes into new frameworks.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>And yet there's agile (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by xxxJonBoyxxx ( 565205 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>And open concept offices.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re:And yet there's agile (Score:5, Interesting)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Seven Spirals ( 4924941 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>I've quit one job and refused two others because of open offices. The two I refused were absolutely flabbergasted by my refusal. They literally could not understand why anyone wouldn't want to be in an open office space surrounded on 3.8 sides by glass-walled manager offices, loud ugly marketing girls, and a bunch of H1B dudes who couldn't be bothered to wear deodorant. That place (MX Logic) had the worst looking office I've ever seen. One of them offered me the job on the spot after the interview and I was already shutting them down and refusing it before they even got started. I told them there is about a zero percent chance of getting anyone really talented to take the gig, because they had this ridiculous noisy slave pit thing going. I nearly left before I even *did* the interview I was so disgusted with the place. The hiring manager was (of course) offended, but he was also clueless. About a year after that interview I had a guy come up to me at the local Maker Space who was one of the "technical resources" for the company during the interview (quiet guy in the back of the room). He told me "My god was I cheering when you refused them over the goddamn open workspace idiocy. My boss was upset over that for weeks. They still talk about it during the hiring process and argue about it."</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by bkmoore ( 1910118 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> ....One of them offered me the job on the spot after the interview and I was already shutting them down and refusing it before they even got started.....</p><p>It begs the question, why even apply there in the first place.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Klaxton ( 609696 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> It begs the question, why even apply there in the first place.</p><p>So you could see their office environment tucked away behind the job description on the internet?</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Ocker3 ( 1232550 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>"But I can See everyone and I know that they're working" - Manager If someone doesn't know enough about their direct report's job that they don't know whether they're working or not without seeing them at their desk, there's a problem. Not all jobs are reduced in efficiency by a cubicle farm, but if your job is primarily about mental focus for the time-intensive tasks, then most people will benefit from having their own room. And the employer will probably benefit enough that an actual room is a worthwhile</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by erp_consultant ( 2614861 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Sounds like a real horror show. Safe to say you made the right move.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Klaxton ( 609696 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>I've worked in the industry for many years, usually with a private office or shared with one person. Recently got a job in an agile "scrum" shop, which went to an open floorplan a few months later. Miserable experience on both counts. Every day you get a Jira work ticket for some "the user wants to see" granule of a thing that you had no part in designing. Zero privacy. It is amazingly de-motivating.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by HornWumpus ( 783565 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Microsoft owns javascript? You have things backwards.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by gweihir ( 88907 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>I was thinking the same thing. Although JavaScript, Java, and the surrounding ecosystems could have come from MS, no doubt.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Yeah, right (Score:5, Insightful)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Anonymous Coward</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>If they considered developers more important than money, they'd pay the developers more to keep the skilled ones. Every time a developer leaves a company, a hunk of business knowledge walks out the door with him.</p><p>Companies care about that quarter's finance report, and the C-level execs care only about fleecing the company for all they can stuff into their own pockets. Look at what they do, not what some survey says.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:3, Interesting)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Anonymous Coward</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>LOL. You've massively understated the ageism and the issue of job qualifications.</p><p>First, the ageism problem is associated also with a problem that people aren't allowed to take breaks. After having great success even to the point of being a chief architect on an 80-man program, I quit working for a while and now can't find anyone who will let me start at the bottom.</p><p>But, the job qualification thing is really ridiculous. A good software engineer is a specialist at picking up new domains, languages, frameworks,</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Anonymous Brave Guy ( 457657 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> Don't know where you live, but in most places I think developers are paid fairly well. We offer straight-out-of-school newbies $80-$90k, and still some turn us down for better offers.</p><p>Most places are not the Bay Area or a few big US cities. In most of the world, new starter salaries in software development are rarely more than 1/3 of that level, and in many places they are much lower.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Ocker3 ( 1232550 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Your post is probably at zero rep because it was posted AC, but you make good points.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Klaxton ( 609696 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Software developers generally have to do what they are told, and work on whatever the boss thinks is important. You don't get to decide whether it is going to bring in money or not.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Yeah haven't heard that one before (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Crashmarik ( 635988 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Maybe it just sounds too much like 40 years of businesses claiming there was a shortage of engineers in the U.S. when what they meant was there was a shortage of engineers that could be treated really badly.</p><p>Or maybe it's the fact that companies only seem to be willing to hire H1Bs that will do anything not to go back to their shitholes, or young kids who are stupid enough to believe managements promises and have no family or social life to distract from putting in 80+ hour weeks ?</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by zlives ( 2009072 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>you misread, and i quote</p><p>"developer talent is a threat to the success of their business" thus the hiring of no talent, spot filling h1b. and if they accidentally get a talented h1b... replace and repeat.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>FTFY (Score:5, Funny)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by thevirtualcat ( 1071504 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Software Developers Who Are Willing To Work For Uncompetitive Wages And No Benefits Are Now More Valuable To Companies Than Money, Says Survey</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Seven Spirals ( 4924941 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Fucking-A right. Period.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>.ORG (Score:4, Insightful)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by fluffernutter ( 1411889 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>This just tells me that developers need to get organized and start saying no to 80+ work weeks collectively. Otherwise it will be divided they fall, forever.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Ocker3 ( 1232550 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>How do we re-invent Unions without calling them Unions and avoid the very real baggage that the term has in the USA? Guilds?</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>In other news... (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Robobox Computer ( 5357621 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>The sun rose today.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Legacy systems are out of control (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by xack ( 5304745 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Microsoft has just announced paid extended support for Windows 7 as too many companies are using it. There’s a lot of server 2003 systems out there too, with companies rather risking security exploits than upgrade.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Ocker3 ( 1232550 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>A pity that new features aren't separated from security patches to allow users to keep their old platform secure without feature changes.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by xvan ( 2935999 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> Newer file browsers no longer let you edit the file path, you have to click on everything to get somewhere</p><p>Ctrl+L , no, you don't need to thank me.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Anonymous Coward</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>So I'm supposed to upgrade the single Windows 2003 system I have, running as a non-networked VM, hosting a proprietary application on a system we need to lookup legacy data that never changes so I can pay to upgrade to a modern system, figure out a way to migrate the data from one proprietary application to a new and different system just so I can have support I don't need on a system that can't realistically be exploited in the first place?</p><p>OR I'm supposed to pay a premium for extended support on the curren</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by gweihir ( 88907 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>That is a different problem. Their new offerings are just really bad. Also, nobody sane used MS crap on server-side.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Yet us 50+ folks are unemployed (Score:4, Informative)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Snotnose ( 212196 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Forget how long I've been out of work, it's been 2-3 years now since I quit looking.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Locke2005 ( 849178 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>I'm 57 and got at least 3 calls TODAY offering to submit me for contract software positions. Granted, a lot of recruiters try to low-ball me on the hourly rate, but they change their tune as soon as you call their bluff and tell them you're not interested at that low rate.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Anonymous Coward</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> I'm 57 and got at least 3 calls TODAY offering to submit me for contract software positions. Granted, a lot of recruiters try to low-ball me on the hourly rate, but they change their tune as soon as you call their bluff and tell them you're not interested at that low rate.</p><p>I get recruiters wanting to submit me all the time. Then after a week, I follow up and the "the position is closed." I think recruiters are assholes who got fired from see car lots for ethics violations.</p><p>So, when you get a real job with health insurance, you'll be an outlier.</p><p>Of course, that's assumimg you're not full of shit.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Locke2005 ( 849178 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>I agree; I regard recruiters as people that weren't ethical enough to get jobs as used car salesmen. I interviewed for a job once, didn't get any response, so I started another position. A month after the initial interview, the recruiter for the first position offered me $1500 cash in a plain, unmarked envelope to quit the job I'd just started and take the other position instead! (Apparently the cash came out of his commission.) So yes, recruiters know nothing, rely almost entirely on keyword searching in r</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>So, the old adage? (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Employees are our most valuable asset? I'm pretty sure it's actually still money.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Nonsensical headline... (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by JoeDuncan ( 874519 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>It's like saying "gold is worth more than money!" - totally meaningless.</p><p>One (gold, developers) is a commodity that IS exchanged, the other (money) is the medium OF exchange.</p><p>Saying that "commodity X" is worth more than "exchange medium Y" makes no sense because a commodity CANNOT be worth "more" or "less" than the medium of exchange used - it can only ever be worth a specified amount of Y.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Talk about not understanding an article / Poll (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Harlequin80 ( 1671040 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>No where does it say that companies think developers are more important than money.</p><p>The results state that the companies perceive the risk of not being able to find skills as higher than the risks of not being able to access capital.</p><p>This is especially true if you're a cash rich organisation.</p><p>In the current financial climate finding returns on your investments is hard. Interest rates are at historically low levels, bond returns are zero, and so that leaves higher risk investments to get returns. That effecti</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>lots of employees are "worth more than money"... (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by bkmoore ( 1910118 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>What management school fails to teach young inexperienced executives: If the company's future existence depends on whether or not an employee does the job correctly or not, they are "worth more than money".</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Tech debt is a business decision (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by swm ( 171547 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Incurring technical debt is a business decision.</p><p>And it may well be the right decision.</p><p>For example, in a startup, time to market typically trumps software quality.</p><p>And there are a lot of startups in the software field...</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Not at my compamy (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by dccase ( 56453 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Not at my company, and certainly not at any other publicly-traded company.</p><p>Maybe at some privately-held company until it gets bought out.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Employees are our Most Valuable Asset (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by R3d M3rcury ( 871886 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Right behind [1]carbon paper. [dilbert.com]</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>[1] http://dilbert.com/strip/1993-03-03</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>And this is why we keep them chained to (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Ranger ( 1783 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>a cubicle.</p></div>
+ </div>
+</div>
+</body>
--- /dev/null
+ PROFESSOR WHO COINED TERM 'NET NEUTRALITY' THINKS IT'S TIME TO \r
+ BREAK UP FACEBOOK (THEVERGE.COM) \r
+\r
+ Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (BeauHD)\r
+ from the easier-said-than-done dept.\r
+\r
+ o News link: https://news.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2043213/professor-who-coined-term-net-neutrality-thinks-its-time-to-break-up-facebook\r
+ o Source link: https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/4/17816572/tim-wu-facebook-regulation-interview-curse-of-bigness-antitrust\r
+\r
+\r
+ pgmrdlm shares a report from The Verge: Best known for coining\r
+ the phrase "net neutrality" and his book The Master Switch:\r
+ The Rise and Fall of Information Empires, Wu has a new book\r
+ coming out in November called The Curse of Bigness: Antitrust\r
+ in the New Gilded Age. In it, he argues compellingly for a\r
+ return to aggressive antitrust enforcement in the style of\r
+ Teddy Roosevelt, saying that Google, Facebook, Amazon, and\r
+ other huge tech companies are a threat to democracy as they\r
+ get bigger and bigger. "We live in America, which has a strong\r
+ and proud tradition of breaking up companies that are too big\r
+ for inefficient reasons," Wu told me on this week's Vergecast.\r
+ "We need to reverse this idea that it's not an American\r
+ tradition. We've broken up dozens of companies." "I think if\r
+ you took a hard look at the acquisition of WhatsApp and\r
+ Instagram, the argument that the effects of those acquisitions\r
+ have been anticompetitive would be easy to prove for a number\r
+ of reasons," says Wu. And breaking up the company wouldn't be\r
+ hard, he says. "What would be the harm? You'll have three\r
+ competitors. It's not 'Oh my god, if you get rid of WhatsApp\r
+ and Instagram, well then the whole world's going to fall\r
+ apart.' It would be like 'Okay, now you have some companies\r
+ actually trying to offer you an alternative to Facebook.'"\r
+ Breaking up Facebook (and other huge tech companies like\r
+ Google and Amazon) could be simple under the current law,\r
+ suggests Wu. But it could also lead to a major rethinking of\r
+ how antitrust law should work in a world where the giant\r
+ platform companies give their products away for free, and the\r
+ ability for the government to restrict corporate power seems\r
+ to be diminishing by the day. And it demands that we all think\r
+ seriously about the conditions that create innovation. "I\r
+ think everyone's steering way away from the monopolies, and I\r
+ think it's hurting innovation in the tech sector," says Wu.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Safe Harbor (Score:5, Interesting)\r
+ (by Kunedog ( 1033226 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ There's a simpler way:\r
+ [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]\r
+ \r
+ If they want to curate content according to their political\r
+ bias, then treat them like the politically-biased media outlets\r
+ they are, legally liable for the content they host, instead of\r
+ platforms under "safe harbor" protections. If they want to\r
+ continue to be treated like platforms, then they can keep their\r
+ hands off their political opponents' speech.\r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMLLlnRCBqg\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by HornWumpus ( 783565 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ They're already not 'common carriers' so they really didn't\r
+ lose anything by curating.\r
+ The solution is to reestablish 'common carrier' protections\r
+ for those web forums that deserve it.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re:Safe Harbor (Score:4, Interesting)\r
+ (by pots ( 5047349 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ I didn't read the article, but the summary has nothing to do\r
+ with what you're talking about. The issue at hand is\r
+ monopolies and the consequent stifling of innovation and lack\r
+ of competitive pressure, that being the only thing which\r
+ makes our economy work for people instead of against them.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Holy Fuck (Score:1)\r
+ (by Anonymous Coward)\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Why do I bother coming here anymore?\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3)\r
+ (by ArchieBunker ( 132337 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ We don't even have that anymore.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:1)\r
+ (by DontBeAMoran ( 4843879 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ PHRASING.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:1)\r
+ (by rojash ( 2567409 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ i really wanted to mod this up...but screw this mod point\r
+ rationing here\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by LostMyBeaver ( 1226054 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ I honestly want the monopolies to pretend to strengthen\r
+ democracy.\r
+ \r
+ At this point in time,\r
+ Jeff Bezos owns Amazon and news papers and whatever else\r
+ Satya Nadella is in control of one of the biggest new\r
+ networks (which slashdotters will never see because it's\r
+ through Edge and Bing)\r
+ The Alphabet boys are in control of what almost everyone in\r
+ the world sees\r
+ Zuck and Dorsey could easily control a MASSIVE amount of what\r
+ everyone sees.\r
+ \r
+ What's also important is that most of these people seem to\r
+ have some inkling of wanti\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:1)\r
+ (by Tyger-ZA ( 1886544 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ It's correct that people want one point of access to a thing,\r
+ but nobody really wants a monopoly.\r
+ Assuming that one inevitably leads to the other is part of\r
+ the problem.\r
+ For example, with the video streaming sites, what we really\r
+ need is for them to collaborate on the platform (how you\r
+ login and watch shit) but compete on the content, meaning\r
+ that if you watch American Gods on the shared platform,\r
+ Amazon gets paid a share of your subscription, yet if you\r
+ watch Luke Cage on the same platform , Netflix gets paid\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by LostMyBeaver ( 1226054 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Nope... that was back before we had mass real-time media and\r
+ we didn't fully understand how incredibly fucked the entire\r
+ government was.\r
+ \r
+ Then there was FDR who had the national radio and used it as\r
+ a weapon against others in Washington to give him\r
+ near-dictator powers. And then he completely without\r
+ foresight fucked up the political system in America by\r
+ imposing term limits which meant that politicians who have\r
+ real plans that take more than 8 years to accomplish...\r
+ won't.\r
+ \r
+ When we got TV and had 1-3 channels,\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Professor? Professor? (Score:2)\r
+ (by NoNonAlphaCharsHere ( 2201864 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Professor Who???\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:1)\r
+ (by antdude ( 79039 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Dr. Who! :D\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** How (Score:2)\r
+ (by ArchieBunker ( 132337 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ exactly do you break up a company who offers a service for free?\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:1)\r
+ (by pots ( 5047349 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Facebook's service is selling advertising. It is not free,\r
+ they are the #2 advertiser in the world right now (I think\r
+ that's right, but I'm not going to look it up).\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Facebook, Google, and Apple need to be broken up. (Score:1)\r
+ (by WCMI92 ( 592436 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Microsoft has fallen below the zone they were once in.\r
+\r
+ ** And how would that solve anything for consumers? (Score:3,\r
+ Interesting)\r
+ (by Anonymous Coward)\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Facebook has grown because it offered the best social platform\r
+ for users. The point of social platforms is to connect with\r
+ everyone else. Fragmentation means people needing to belong to\r
+ and check multiple platforms. Trying to force competition won't\r
+ solve any user issues. However, once Facebook stops providing a\r
+ compelling service, people will move on their own. The same as\r
+ they gave up MySpace and the same as they rejected Google+. The\r
+ market chose Facebook and will purge it when time comes.\r
+ The same with Google. There were plenty of entrenched search\r
+ services when Google came to be. Users chose it because it was\r
+ better. The old search services died because they didn't evolve.\r
+ If Google stops being the best fit option, people will go\r
+ somewhere else. They already have choices like Bing and Duck\r
+ Duck Go. As the service is free, people are choosing based on\r
+ functionality, not on price. Those that don't like the privacy\r
+ price of Google are opting for other services. You can't just\r
+ declare another search service is required and then force the\r
+ public to use it so that you can claim to have multiple services\r
+ with comparable market share.\r
+ If people were given a choice of all you can eat steak or beets\r
+ at equal cost, odds are that the majority would choose steak.\r
+ When you remove cost and scarcity, the premium option will\r
+ dominate. Digital services don't have scarcity like physical\r
+ products do. It's a different economy.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:1)\r
+ (by pots ( 5047349 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > Facebook has grown because it offered the best social\r
+ > platform for users.\r
+ As stated in the summary: Facebook has grown by purchasing\r
+ their competitors. The summary mentions WhatsApp and\r
+ Instagram specifically.\r
+ \r
+ Your comment about the problem with fragmentation is an\r
+ example of why Facebook needs to be broken up by an outside\r
+ entity: they have a natural monopoly, since real competition\r
+ from startups would lead to fragmentation.\r
+ \r
+ I've said this before, but if the government came along and\r
+ broke up the company by splitting off Facebook's front-end\r
+ from its back-end, then we could\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by jrumney ( 197329 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > As stated in the summary: Facebook has grown by purchasing\r
+ > their competitors. The summary mentions WhatsApp and\r
+ > Instagram specifically.\r
+ While this is true, so far they have not bought their\r
+ competitors to shut them down, or to raise prices to the\r
+ detriment of consumers. They are building a monopoly, but\r
+ so far, it is not harmful from an economic perspective,\r
+ and unfortunately I don't think anti-trust law is\r
+ concerned with privacy, so the case for breaking up\r
+ Facebook is not strong.\r
+ Apple would be a much juicier target, especially as they\r
+ recently became the world's first trillion dollar company\r
+ (with Amazon close behind). Splitting out the\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** ok (Score:1)\r
+ (by Alyks ( 798644 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ why do I care about a guy whose biggest contribution to this\r
+ subject is clever phrasing?\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by Zontar The Mindless ( 9002 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > Are you with me Doctor Wu\r
+ > Are you really just a shadow\r
+ > Of the man that I once knew\r
+ > Are you crazy are you high\r
+ > Or just an ordinary guy\r
+ > Have you done all you can do\r
+ > Are you with me Doctor\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** We need open platforms (Score:1)\r
+ (by Karmashock ( 2415832 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ These proprietary social networks are bad for free speech.\r
+ I have no problem with facebook, google, twitter, except that\r
+ they concentrate the internet in the hands of a few large\r
+ companies.\r
+ We need open platforms like HTML, TCP/IP, Email, Newsgroups, etc.\r
+ All old retrograde stuff according to the children. But there\r
+ isn't one of these social networks that couldn't be made P2P or\r
+ something that anyone could set up their own personal server for\r
+ that interlinked with each other.\r
+ A 20 dollar raspberry pi could host\r
+\r
+ ** Not a monopoly or required... (Score:2)\r
+ (by Archfeld ( 6757 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ I don't like Facebook either but its not a monopoly, nor is it\r
+ required in anyway to use the internet. Anyone could come up\r
+ with the next social network thing anytime now or you can just\r
+ NOT use Facebook. It isn't like an OS or a browser that is\r
+ necessary for use or access to anything. Facebook or Twitter are\r
+ tools of convenience and can easily be done without. If you\r
+ don't like what is being said filter it out or don't use either.\r
+\r
+ ** We had the chance... (Score:2)\r
+ (by erp_consultant ( 2614861 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ and blew it...with Microsoft. They should have been broken up\r
+ just like Standard Oil. But they were not and that just created\r
+ a precedent for companies like Facebook and Amazon and Google.\r
+ We reap what we sow.\r
+\r
+ ** Why I posted this (Score:2)\r
+ (by pgmrdlm ( 1642279 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Look, I don't get my news from Facebook. Local, National, World.\r
+ Be it political or otherwise. I don't give a shit about who they\r
+ ban, and who they don't. I don't give a shit on who they censor,\r
+ and who they don't. Just don't care. Face book has purchased the\r
+ following which was competition. At least they didn't kill them.\r
+ They own Tinder, dating. They own Instagram, another form of\r
+ social media. And a couple others were mentioned in the article.\r
+ My profile was not used by that company that tried t\r
+\r
+ ** What the f____ (Score:2)\r
+ (by WolfgangVL ( 3494585 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ "Look over here! See? We're thinking about maybe eventually\r
+ doing something someday! (Pay no attention to the massive\r
+ personal data collection feast that\r
+ every-single-damn-corporation and government in the entire\r
+ bloody world is gorging on behind the curtain)"\r
+ WHY do people give so many shits for instabook and facegram?\r
+ It's not something anybody actually needs to begin with. For\r
+ fucks sake. Big tech is not "The internet"... in fact, the case\r
+ has been made that these companies are big evil time eaters that\r
+ p\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by pgmrdlm ( 1642279 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Hell, let's start with the fact that before Facebook, what\r
+ ever. Credit cards are tracked, companies record everything\r
+ you purchase from them. Those company cards on your key\r
+ change to save 3 cents. That is all tracked. And it is all\r
+ shared via companies selling the information\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
--- /dev/null
+0Professor Who Coined Term 'Net Neutrality' Thinks It's Time To Break Up Facebook (theverge.com) null/SLASHDOT/0102640274 70\r
+i Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (BeauHD)\r
+i from the easier-said-than-done dept.\r
+i\r
+i pgmrdlm shares a report from The Verge: Best known for coining\r
+i the phrase "net neutrality" and his book The Master Switch:\r
+i The Rise and Fall of Information Empires, Wu has a new book\r
+i coming out in November called The Curse of Bigness: Antitrust\r
+i in the New Gilded Age. In it, he argues compellingly for a\r
+i return to aggressive antitrust enforcement in the style of\r
+i Teddy Roosevelt, saying that Google, Facebook, Amazon, and\r
+i other huge tech companies are a threat to democracy as they\r
+i get bigger and bigger. "We live in America, which has a strong\r
+i and proud tradition of breaking up companies that are too big\r
+i for inefficient reasons," Wu told me on this week's Vergecast.\r
+i "We need to reverse this idea that it's not an American\r
+i tradition. We've broken up dozens of companies." "I think if\r
+i you took a hard look at the acquisition of WhatsApp and\r
+i Instagram, the argument that the effects of those acquisitions\r
+i have been anticompetitive would be easy to prove for a number\r
+i of reasons," says Wu. And breaking up the company wouldn't be\r
+i hard, he says. "What would be the harm? You'll have three\r
+i competitors. It's not 'Oh my god, if you get rid of WhatsApp\r
+i and Instagram, well then the whole world's going to fall\r
+i apart.' It would be like 'Okay, now you have some companies\r
+i actually trying to offer you an alternative to Facebook.'"\r
+i Breaking up Facebook (and other huge tech companies like\r
+i Google and Amazon) could be simple under the current law,\r
+i suggests Wu. But it could also lead to a major rethinking of\r
+i how antitrust law should work in a world where the giant\r
+i platform companies give their products away for free, and the\r
+i ability for the government to restrict corporate power seems\r
+i to be diminishing by the day. And it demands that we all think\r
+i seriously about the conditions that create innovation. "I\r
+i think everyone's steering way away from the monopolies, and I\r
+i think it's hurting innovation in the tech sector," says Wu.\r
+i\r
--- /dev/null
+<!DOCTYPE html>
+<html>
+<head>
+ <meta http-equiv='content-type' content='text/html; charset=utf-8'>
+ <meta name='viewport' content='width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0'>
+ <style type='text/css'>
+ body { margin: 1em 15%; }
+ </style>
+</head>
+<body>
+<div class='story-header'>
+ <h1><a href='0102640274.html'>Professor Who Coined Term 'Net Neutrality' Thinks It's Time To Break Up Facebook (theverge.com)</a></h1>
+ <div class='details'>(Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (BeauHD)
+from the easier-said-than-done dept.)</div>
+ <br/>
+ <div class='content' style='text-align: justify'>
+ pgmrdlm shares a report from The Verge: Best known for coining the phrase "net neutrality" and his book The Master Switch: The Rise and Fall of Information Empires, Wu has a new book coming out in November called The Curse of Bigness: Antitrust in the New Gilded Age. In it, he argues compellingly for a return to aggressive antitrust enforcement in the style of Teddy Roosevelt, saying that Google, Facebook, Amazon, and other huge tech companies are a threat to democracy as they get bigger and bigger. "We live in America, which has a strong and proud tradition of breaking up companies that are too big for inefficient reasons," Wu told me on this week's Vergecast. "We need to reverse this idea that it's not an American tradition. We've broken up dozens of companies." "I think if you took a hard look at the acquisition of WhatsApp and Instagram, the argument that the effects of those acquisitions have been anticompetitive would be easy to prove for a number of reasons," says Wu. And breaking up the company wouldn't be hard, he says. "What would be the harm? You'll have three competitors. It's not 'Oh my god, if you get rid of WhatsApp and Instagram, well then the whole world's going to fall apart.' It would be like 'Okay, now you have some companies actually trying to offer you an alternative to Facebook.'" Breaking up Facebook (and other huge tech companies like Google and Amazon) could be simple under the current law, suggests Wu. But it could also lead to a major rethinking of how antitrust law should work in a world where the giant platform companies give their products away for free, and the ability for the government to restrict corporate power seems to be diminishing by the day. And it demands that we all think seriously about the conditions that create innovation. "I think everyone's steering way away from the monopolies, and I think it's hurting innovation in the tech sector," says Wu.
+ </div>
+<hr/>
+</div>
+</body>
--- /dev/null
+<!DOCTYPE html>
+<html>
+<head>
+ <meta http-equiv='content-type' content='text/html; charset=utf-8'>
+ <meta name='viewport' content='width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0'>
+ <style type='text/css'>
+ body { margin: 1em 15%; }
+ </style>
+</head>
+<body>
+<div class='story'>
+ <h1>Professor Who Coined Term 'Net Neutrality' Thinks It's Time To Break Up Facebook (theverge.com)</h1>
+ <div class='details'>(Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (BeauHD)
+from the easier-said-than-done dept.)</div>
+ <br/>
+ <ul>
+ <li>News link: <a href='https://news.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2043213/professor-who-coined-term-net-neutrality-thinks-its-time-to-break-up-facebook'>https://news.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2043213/professor-who-coined-term-net-neutrality-thinks-its-time-to-break-up-facebook</a></li>
+ <li>Source link: <a href='https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/4/17816572/tim-wu-facebook-regulation-interview-curse-of-bigness-antitrust'>https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/4/17816572/tim-wu-facebook-regulation-interview-curse-of-bigness-antitrust</a></li>
+ </ul>
+ <br/>
+ <div class='content' style='text-align: justify'>
+ pgmrdlm shares a report from The Verge: Best known for coining the phrase "net neutrality" and his book The Master Switch: The Rise and Fall of Information Empires, Wu has a new book coming out in November called The Curse of Bigness: Antitrust in the New Gilded Age. In it, he argues compellingly for a return to aggressive antitrust enforcement in the style of Teddy Roosevelt, saying that Google, Facebook, Amazon, and other huge tech companies are a threat to democracy as they get bigger and bigger. "We live in America, which has a strong and proud tradition of breaking up companies that are too big for inefficient reasons," Wu told me on this week's Vergecast. "We need to reverse this idea that it's not an American tradition. We've broken up dozens of companies." "I think if you took a hard look at the acquisition of WhatsApp and Instagram, the argument that the effects of those acquisitions have been anticompetitive would be easy to prove for a number of reasons," says Wu. And breaking up the company wouldn't be hard, he says. "What would be the harm? You'll have three competitors. It's not 'Oh my god, if you get rid of WhatsApp and Instagram, well then the whole world's going to fall apart.' It would be like 'Okay, now you have some companies actually trying to offer you an alternative to Facebook.'" Breaking up Facebook (and other huge tech companies like Google and Amazon) could be simple under the current law, suggests Wu. But it could also lead to a major rethinking of how antitrust law should work in a world where the giant platform companies give their products away for free, and the ability for the government to restrict corporate power seems to be diminishing by the day. And it demands that we all think seriously about the conditions that create innovation. "I think everyone's steering way away from the monopolies, and I think it's hurting innovation in the tech sector," says Wu.
+ </div>
+<hr/>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Safe Harbor (Score:5, Interesting)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Kunedog ( 1033226 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>There's a simpler way:</p><p>[1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]</p><p></p><p>If they want to curate content according to their political bias, then treat them like the politically-biased media outlets they are, legally liable for the content they host, instead of platforms under "safe harbor" protections. If they want to continue to be treated like platforms, then they can keep their hands off their political opponents' speech.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMLLlnRCBqg</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by HornWumpus ( 783565 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>They're already not 'common carriers' so they really didn't lose anything by curating.</p><p>The solution is to reestablish 'common carrier' protections for those web forums that deserve it.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re:Safe Harbor (Score:4, Interesting)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by pots ( 5047349 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>I didn't read the article, but the summary has nothing to do with what you're talking about. The issue at hand is monopolies and the consequent stifling of innovation and lack of competitive pressure, that being the only thing which makes our economy work for people instead of against them.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Holy Fuck (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Anonymous Coward</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Why do I bother coming here anymore?</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by ArchieBunker ( 132337 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>We don't even have that anymore.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by DontBeAMoran ( 4843879 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>PHRASING.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by rojash ( 2567409 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>i really wanted to mod this up...but screw this mod point rationing here</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by LostMyBeaver ( 1226054 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>I honestly want the monopolies to pretend to strengthen democracy.</p><p></p><p>At this point in time,</p><p>Jeff Bezos owns Amazon and news papers and whatever else</p><p>Satya Nadella is in control of one of the biggest new networks (which slashdotters will never see because it's through Edge and Bing)</p><p>The Alphabet boys are in control of what almost everyone in the world sees</p><p>Zuck and Dorsey could easily control a MASSIVE amount of what everyone sees.</p><p></p><p>What's also important is that most of these people seem to have some inkling of wanti</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Tyger-ZA ( 1886544 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>It's correct that people want one point of access to a thing, but nobody really wants a monopoly.</p><p>Assuming that one inevitably leads to the other is part of the problem.</p><p>For example, with the video streaming sites, what we really need is for them to collaborate on the platform (how you login and watch shit) but compete on the content, meaning that if you watch American Gods on the shared platform, Amazon gets paid a share of your subscription, yet if you watch Luke Cage on the same platform , Netflix gets paid</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by LostMyBeaver ( 1226054 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Nope... that was back before we had mass real-time media and we didn't fully understand how incredibly fucked the entire government was.</p><p></p><p>Then there was FDR who had the national radio and used it as a weapon against others in Washington to give him near-dictator powers. And then he completely without foresight fucked up the political system in America by imposing term limits which meant that politicians who have real plans that take more than 8 years to accomplish... won't.</p><p></p><p>When we got TV and had 1-3 channels,</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Professor? Professor? (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by NoNonAlphaCharsHere ( 2201864 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Professor Who???</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by antdude ( 79039 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Dr. Who! :D</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>How (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by ArchieBunker ( 132337 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>exactly do you break up a company who offers a service for free?</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by pots ( 5047349 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Facebook's service is selling advertising. It is not free, they are the #2 advertiser in the world right now (I think that's right, but I'm not going to look it up).</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Facebook, Google, and Apple need to be broken up. (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by WCMI92 ( 592436 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Microsoft has fallen below the zone they were once in.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>And how would that solve anything for consumers? (Score:3, Interesting)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Anonymous Coward</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Facebook has grown because it offered the best social platform for users. The point of social platforms is to connect with everyone else. Fragmentation means people needing to belong to and check multiple platforms. Trying to force competition won't solve any user issues. However, once Facebook stops providing a compelling service, people will move on their own. The same as they gave up MySpace and the same as they rejected Google+. The market chose Facebook and will purge it when time comes.</p><p>The same with Google. There were plenty of entrenched search services when Google came to be. Users chose it because it was better. The old search services died because they didn't evolve. If Google stops being the best fit option, people will go somewhere else. They already have choices like Bing and Duck Duck Go. As the service is free, people are choosing based on functionality, not on price. Those that don't like the privacy price of Google are opting for other services. You can't just declare another search service is required and then force the public to use it so that you can claim to have multiple services with comparable market share.</p><p>If people were given a choice of all you can eat steak or beets at equal cost, odds are that the majority would choose steak. When you remove cost and scarcity, the premium option will dominate. Digital services don't have scarcity like physical products do. It's a different economy.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by pots ( 5047349 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> Facebook has grown because it offered the best social platform for users.</p><p>As stated in the summary: Facebook has grown by purchasing their competitors. The summary mentions WhatsApp and Instagram specifically.</p><p></p><p>Your comment about the problem with fragmentation is an example of why Facebook needs to be broken up by an outside entity: they have a natural monopoly, since real competition from startups would lead to fragmentation.</p><p></p><p>I've said this before, but if the government came along and broke up the company by splitting off Facebook's front-end from its back-end, then we could</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by jrumney ( 197329 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> As stated in the summary: Facebook has grown by purchasing their competitors. The summary mentions WhatsApp and Instagram specifically.</p><p>While this is true, so far they have not bought their competitors to shut them down, or to raise prices to the detriment of consumers. They are building a monopoly, but so far, it is not harmful from an economic perspective, and unfortunately I don't think anti-trust law is concerned with privacy, so the case for breaking up Facebook is not strong.</p><p>Apple would be a much juicier target, especially as they recently became the world's first trillion dollar company (with Amazon close behind). Splitting out the</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>ok (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Alyks ( 798644 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>why do I care about a guy whose biggest contribution to this subject is clever phrasing?</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Zontar The Mindless ( 9002 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> Are you with me Doctor Wu</p><p>> Are you really just a shadow</p><p>> Of the man that I once knew</p><p>> Are you crazy are you high</p><p>> Or just an ordinary guy</p><p>> Have you done all you can do</p><p>> Are you with me Doctor</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>We need open platforms (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Karmashock ( 2415832 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>These proprietary social networks are bad for free speech.</p><p>I have no problem with facebook, google, twitter, except that they concentrate the internet in the hands of a few large companies.</p><p>We need open platforms like HTML, TCP/IP, Email, Newsgroups, etc.</p><p>All old retrograde stuff according to the children. But there isn't one of these social networks that couldn't be made P2P or something that anyone could set up their own personal server for that interlinked with each other.</p><p>A 20 dollar raspberry pi could host</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Not a monopoly or required... (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Archfeld ( 6757 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>I don't like Facebook either but its not a monopoly, nor is it required in anyway to use the internet. Anyone could come up with the next social network thing anytime now or you can just NOT use Facebook. It isn't like an OS or a browser that is necessary for use or access to anything. Facebook or Twitter are tools of convenience and can easily be done without. If you don't like what is being said filter it out or don't use either.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>We had the chance... (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by erp_consultant ( 2614861 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>and blew it...with Microsoft. They should have been broken up just like Standard Oil. But they were not and that just created a precedent for companies like Facebook and Amazon and Google. We reap what we sow.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Why I posted this (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by pgmrdlm ( 1642279 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Look, I don't get my news from Facebook. Local, National, World. Be it political or otherwise. I don't give a shit about who they ban, and who they don't. I don't give a shit on who they censor, and who they don't. Just don't care. Face book has purchased the following which was competition. At least they didn't kill them. They own Tinder, dating. They own Instagram, another form of social media. And a couple others were mentioned in the article. My profile was not used by that company that tried t</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>What the f____ (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by WolfgangVL ( 3494585 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>"Look over here! See? We're thinking about maybe eventually doing something someday! (Pay no attention to the massive personal data collection feast that every-single-damn-corporation and government in the entire bloody world is gorging on behind the curtain)"</p><p>WHY do people give so many shits for instabook and facegram? It's not something anybody actually needs to begin with. For fucks sake. Big tech is not "The internet"... in fact, the case has been made that these companies are big evil time eaters that p</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by pgmrdlm ( 1642279 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Hell, let's start with the fact that before Facebook, what ever. Credit cards are tracked, companies record everything you purchase from them. Those company cards on your key change to save 3 cents. That is all tracked. And it is all shared via companies selling the information</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+</div>
+</body>
--- /dev/null
+ MIT GRADUATE CREATES ROBOT THAT SWIMS THROUGH PIPES TO FIND OUT \r
+ IF THEY'RE LEAKING (FASTCOMPANY.COM) \r
+\r
+ Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (BeauHD)\r
+ from the leak-detecting dept.\r
+\r
+ o News link: https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2058201/mit-graduate-creates-robot-that-swims-through-pipes-to-find-out-if-theyre-leaking\r
+ o Source link: https://www.fastcompany.com/90232363/this-leak-seeking-robot-just-won-the-u-s-james-dyson-award\r
+\r
+\r
+ A 28-year-old MIT graduate named You Wu spent six years\r
+ developing a low-cost robot designed to find leaks in pipes\r
+ early, both to save water and to avoid bigger damage later\r
+ from bursting water mains. "Called Lighthouse, the robot looks\r
+ like a badminton birdie," reports Fast Company. "A soft\r
+ 'skirt' on the device is covered with sensors. As it travels\r
+ through pipes, propelled by the flowing water, suction tugs at\r
+ the device when there's a leak, and it records the location,\r
+ making a map of critical leaks to fix." From the report: MIT\r
+ doctoral student You Wu spent six years developing the design,\r
+ building on research that earlier students began under a\r
+ project sponsored by a university in Saudi Arabia, where most\r
+ drinking water comes from expensive desalination plants and\r
+ around a third of it is lost to leaks. It took three years\r
+ before he had a working prototype. Then Wu got inspiration\r
+ from an unexpected source: At a party with his partner, he\r
+ accidentally stepped on her dress. She noticed immediately,\r
+ unsurprisingly, and Wu realized that he could use a similar\r
+ skirt-like design on a robot so that the robot could detect\r
+ subtle tugs from the suction at each leak. Wu graduated from\r
+ MIT in June, and is now launching the technology through a\r
+ startup called WatchTower Robotics. The company will soon\r
+ begin pilots in Australia and in Cambridge, Massachusetts. One\r
+ challenge now, he says, is creating a guide so water companies\r
+ can use the device on their own.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** What we are not told ... (Score:1)\r
+ (by Alain Williams ( 2972 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ is he still with his partner who's dress he trod on ?\r
+\r
+ ** pig (Score:1, Informative)\r
+ (by Anonymous Coward)\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Congratulations, you reinvented the pig.\r
+ [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]\r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigging\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by An Ominous Coward ( 13324 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Ridiculous, how dare you plebeians libel our foremost\r
+ technology elite. It's MIT, of course what they're doing is\r
+ utterly novel and deserving of fawning media coverage.\r
+ (\r
+ [1]https://puretechltd.com/technology/purerobotics-pipeline-i-\r
+ nspection-system/ [puretechltd.com])\r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ [1]\r
+ https://puretechltd.com/technology/purerobotics-pipeline-insp-\r
+ ection-system/\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** They tried that robot in Montreal... (Score:2)\r
+ (by ls671 ( 1122017 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ I hear they tried that robot in Montreal and it crashed due to\r
+ memory exhaustion.\r
+ Montreal is one of the oldest city in North America and there\r
+ are so many leaks in its water system that it loses 30% of its\r
+ fresh water supply.\r
+ Makes you wonder what is the average water loss in other systems.\r
+ [1]https://montrealgazette.com/ne... [montrealgazette.com]\r
+ [2]https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada... [www.cbc.ca]\r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ [1]\r
+ https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/by-the-numbers-30-pe-\r
+ rcent-of-montreals-water-is-lost-due-to-leaky-city-pipes\r
+ [2]\r
+ https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/city-water-leaks-wasting-millions-\r
+ of-tax-dollars-1.1048035\r
+\r
+ ** Badminton Birdie? (Score:2)\r
+ (by TechyImmigrant ( 175943 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ It's called a shuttlecock you blithering idiot.\r
+\r
+\r
--- /dev/null
+0MIT Graduate Creates Robot That Swims Through Pipes To Find Out If They're Leaking (fastcompany.com) null/SLASHDOT/0102640424 70\r
+i Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (BeauHD)\r
+i from the leak-detecting dept.\r
+i\r
+i A 28-year-old MIT graduate named You Wu spent six years\r
+i developing a low-cost robot designed to find leaks in pipes\r
+i early, both to save water and to avoid bigger damage later\r
+i from bursting water mains. "Called Lighthouse, the robot looks\r
+i like a badminton birdie," reports Fast Company. "A soft\r
+i 'skirt' on the device is covered with sensors. As it travels\r
+i through pipes, propelled by the flowing water, suction tugs at\r
+i the device when there's a leak, and it records the location,\r
+i making a map of critical leaks to fix." From the report: MIT\r
+i doctoral student You Wu spent six years developing the design,\r
+i building on research that earlier students began under a\r
+i project sponsored by a university in Saudi Arabia, where most\r
+i drinking water comes from expensive desalination plants and\r
+i around a third of it is lost to leaks. It took three years\r
+i before he had a working prototype. Then Wu got inspiration\r
+i from an unexpected source: At a party with his partner, he\r
+i accidentally stepped on her dress. She noticed immediately,\r
+i unsurprisingly, and Wu realized that he could use a similar\r
+i skirt-like design on a robot so that the robot could detect\r
+i subtle tugs from the suction at each leak. Wu graduated from\r
+i MIT in June, and is now launching the technology through a\r
+i startup called WatchTower Robotics. The company will soon\r
+i begin pilots in Australia and in Cambridge, Massachusetts. One\r
+i challenge now, he says, is creating a guide so water companies\r
+i can use the device on their own.\r
+i\r
--- /dev/null
+<!DOCTYPE html>
+<html>
+<head>
+ <meta http-equiv='content-type' content='text/html; charset=utf-8'>
+ <meta name='viewport' content='width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0'>
+ <style type='text/css'>
+ body { margin: 1em 15%; }
+ </style>
+</head>
+<body>
+<div class='story-header'>
+ <h1><a href='0102640424.html'>MIT Graduate Creates Robot That Swims Through Pipes To Find Out If They're Leaking (fastcompany.com)</a></h1>
+ <div class='details'>(Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (BeauHD)
+from the leak-detecting dept.)</div>
+ <br/>
+ <div class='content' style='text-align: justify'>
+ A 28-year-old MIT graduate named You Wu spent six years developing a low-cost robot designed to find leaks in pipes early, both to save water and to avoid bigger damage later from bursting water mains. "Called Lighthouse, the robot looks like a badminton birdie," reports Fast Company. "A soft 'skirt' on the device is covered with sensors. As it travels through pipes, propelled by the flowing water, suction tugs at the device when there's a leak, and it records the location, making a map of critical leaks to fix." From the report: MIT doctoral student You Wu spent six years developing the design, building on research that earlier students began under a project sponsored by a university in Saudi Arabia, where most drinking water comes from expensive desalination plants and around a third of it is lost to leaks. It took three years before he had a working prototype. Then Wu got inspiration from an unexpected source: At a party with his partner, he accidentally stepped on her dress. She noticed immediately, unsurprisingly, and Wu realized that he could use a similar skirt-like design on a robot so that the robot could detect subtle tugs from the suction at each leak. Wu graduated from MIT in June, and is now launching the technology through a startup called WatchTower Robotics. The company will soon begin pilots in Australia and in Cambridge, Massachusetts. One challenge now, he says, is creating a guide so water companies can use the device on their own.
+ </div>
+<hr/>
+</div>
+</body>
--- /dev/null
+<!DOCTYPE html>
+<html>
+<head>
+ <meta http-equiv='content-type' content='text/html; charset=utf-8'>
+ <meta name='viewport' content='width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0'>
+ <style type='text/css'>
+ body { margin: 1em 15%; }
+ </style>
+</head>
+<body>
+<div class='story'>
+ <h1>MIT Graduate Creates Robot That Swims Through Pipes To Find Out If They're Leaking (fastcompany.com)</h1>
+ <div class='details'>(Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (BeauHD)
+from the leak-detecting dept.)</div>
+ <br/>
+ <ul>
+ <li>News link: <a href='https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2058201/mit-graduate-creates-robot-that-swims-through-pipes-to-find-out-if-theyre-leaking'>https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2058201/mit-graduate-creates-robot-that-swims-through-pipes-to-find-out-if-theyre-leaking</a></li>
+ <li>Source link: <a href='https://www.fastcompany.com/90232363/this-leak-seeking-robot-just-won-the-u-s-james-dyson-award'>https://www.fastcompany.com/90232363/this-leak-seeking-robot-just-won-the-u-s-james-dyson-award</a></li>
+ </ul>
+ <br/>
+ <div class='content' style='text-align: justify'>
+ A 28-year-old MIT graduate named You Wu spent six years developing a low-cost robot designed to find leaks in pipes early, both to save water and to avoid bigger damage later from bursting water mains. "Called Lighthouse, the robot looks like a badminton birdie," reports Fast Company. "A soft 'skirt' on the device is covered with sensors. As it travels through pipes, propelled by the flowing water, suction tugs at the device when there's a leak, and it records the location, making a map of critical leaks to fix." From the report: MIT doctoral student You Wu spent six years developing the design, building on research that earlier students began under a project sponsored by a university in Saudi Arabia, where most drinking water comes from expensive desalination plants and around a third of it is lost to leaks. It took three years before he had a working prototype. Then Wu got inspiration from an unexpected source: At a party with his partner, he accidentally stepped on her dress. She noticed immediately, unsurprisingly, and Wu realized that he could use a similar skirt-like design on a robot so that the robot could detect subtle tugs from the suction at each leak. Wu graduated from MIT in June, and is now launching the technology through a startup called WatchTower Robotics. The company will soon begin pilots in Australia and in Cambridge, Massachusetts. One challenge now, he says, is creating a guide so water companies can use the device on their own.
+ </div>
+<hr/>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>What we are not told ... (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Alain Williams ( 2972 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>is he still with his partner who's dress he trod on ?</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>pig (Score:1, Informative)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Anonymous Coward</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Congratulations, you reinvented the pig.</p><p>[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigging</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by An Ominous Coward ( 13324 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Ridiculous, how dare you plebeians libel our foremost technology elite. It's MIT, of course what they're doing is utterly novel and deserving of fawning media coverage.</p><p>( [1]https://puretechltd.com/technology/purerobotics-pipeline-inspection-system/ [puretechltd.com])</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>[1] https://puretechltd.com/technology/purerobotics-pipeline-inspection-system/</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>They tried that robot in Montreal... (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by ls671 ( 1122017 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>I hear they tried that robot in Montreal and it crashed due to memory exhaustion.</p><p>Montreal is one of the oldest city in North America and there are so many leaks in its water system that it loses 30% of its fresh water supply.</p><p>Makes you wonder what is the average water loss in other systems.</p><p>[1]https://montrealgazette.com/ne... [montrealgazette.com]</p><p>[2]https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada... [www.cbc.ca]</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>[1] https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/by-the-numbers-30-percent-of-montreals-water-is-lost-due-to-leaky-city-pipes</p><p>[2] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/city-water-leaks-wasting-millions-of-tax-dollars-1.1048035</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Badminton Birdie? (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by TechyImmigrant ( 175943 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>It's called a shuttlecock you blithering idiot.</p></div>
+ </div>
+</div>
+</body>
--- /dev/null
+ BLOCKCHAINS ARE NOT SAFE FOR VOTING, CONCLUDES NAP REPORT \r
+ (NYTIMES.COM) \r
+\r
+ Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (BeauHD)\r
+ from the ensuring-the-integrity-of-elections dept.\r
+\r
+ o News link: https://politics.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2137245/blockchains-are-not-safe-for-voting-concludes-nap-report\r
+ o Source link: https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2018/09/06/technology/ap-us-tec-election-security-reform-report.html\r
+\r
+\r
+ The National Academies Press has released a 156-page report,\r
+ called "Securing the Vote: Protecting American Democracy,"\r
+ concluding that blockchains are not safe for the U.S. election\r
+ system. "While the notion of using a blockchain as an\r
+ immutable ballot box may seem promising, blockchain technology\r
+ does little to solve the fundamental security issues of\r
+ elections, and indeed, blockchains introduce additional\r
+ security vulnerabilities," the report states. "In particular,\r
+ if malware on a voter's device alters a vote before it ever\r
+ reaches a blockchain, the immutability of the blockchain fails\r
+ to provide the desired integrity, and the voter may never know\r
+ of the alteration." The report goes on to say that\r
+ "Blockchains do not provide the anonymity often ascribed to\r
+ them." It continues: "In the particular context of elections,\r
+ voters need to be authorized as eligible to vote and as not\r
+ having cast more than one ballot in the particular election.\r
+ Blockchains do not offer means for providing the necessary\r
+ authorization. [...] If a blockchain is used, then cast\r
+ ballots must be encrypted or otherwise anonymized to prevent\r
+ coercion and vote-selling." The New York Times summarizes the\r
+ findings: The cautiously worded report calls for conducting\r
+ all federal, state and local elections on paper ballots by\r
+ 2020. Its other top recommendation would require nationwide\r
+ use of a specific form of routine postelection audit to ensure\r
+ votes have been accurately counted. The panel did not offer a\r
+ price tag for its recommended overhaul. New York University's\r
+ Brennan Center has estimated that replacing aging voting\r
+ machines over the next few years could cost well over $1\r
+ billion. The 156-page report [...] bemoans a rickety system\r
+ compromised by insecure voting equipment and software whose\r
+ vulnerabilities were exposed more than a decade ago and which\r
+ are too often managed by officials with little training in\r
+ cybersecurity. Among its specific recommendations was a\r
+ mainstay of election reformers: All elections should use\r
+ human-readable paper ballots by 2020. Such systems are\r
+ intended to assure voters that their vote was recorded\r
+ accurately. They also create a lasting record of "voter\r
+ intent" that can be used for reliable recounts, which may not\r
+ be possible in systems that record votes electronically. [...]\r
+ The panel also calls for all states to adopt a type of\r
+ post-election audit that employs statistical analysis of\r
+ ballots prior to results certification. Such "risk-limiting"\r
+ audits are designed to uncover miscounts and vote tampering.\r
+ Currently only three states mandate them.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re:All security = an implementation. (Score:5, Insightful)\r
+ (by PopeRatzo ( 965947 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > To say blockchain is inherently unsafe is like saying\r
+ > software is inherently unsafe\r
+ Oh, you are so close to a breakthrough.\r
+ When it comes to voting, blockchain, like software, IS\r
+ inherently unsafe. If the main goal for voting security is\r
+ maintaining the people's confidence in an election, the only\r
+ system that will meet that standard is a system where people\r
+ are actually keeping an eye on one another. And I mean\r
+ physically watching one another. And that's the system we had\r
+ in place before the advent of voting machines and election\r
+ software. You had a room full of election judges from both\r
+ sides, and they sat side-by-side checking in voters as they\r
+ approached the voting booth and physically watched them put\r
+ the ballot in the box. When the votes were counted, there was\r
+ a whole bunch of people from both parties standing around\r
+ keeping a close eye. When the ballots were sent for storage,\r
+ one person from each party rode in the truck to drop them off\r
+ after sealing the container - together - and signing off.\r
+ It was trust, but verify. Was it possible to jigger with an\r
+ election like that? Of course. But you had a list of names of\r
+ people you could hold accountable at every step in the\r
+ process. Electronic voting will never, ever be trusted. That\r
+ is the effect of transparency.\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:1, Insightful)\r
+ (by Anonymous Coward)\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > " If the main goal for voting security is maintaining\r
+ > the people's confidence in an election " - Well I don't\r
+ > agree with that starting point definition. I think\r
+ > security = security, not theater of.\r
+ Then you're bad at security. Security is theater.\r
+ There is no impregnable system. Security can only\r
+ increase the difficulty of entering a system, it cannot\r
+ stop a determined opponent. Is a CCTV system going to\r
+ stop someone from breaking into your store? No, but it\r
+ will make the person think twice about it, because they\r
+ are likely to be recorded, found, and caught. Is the\r
+ TSA likely to stop all bad guys from getting on planes?\r
+ No, but it alters how much they must prepare to get on\r
+ board the plane so hop\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by Ocker3 ( 1232550 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Sadly, the TSA haven't shown themselves to be any\r
+ good at their job, repeatedly. It's hard to get good\r
+ help when the work is shite, the 'customers' range\r
+ from sullen to hating you, and the pay is peanuts.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Transparency is the key (Score:1)\r
+ (by victor_alarcon ( 5520418 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ I thought that was the main selling point. Yes, I'm sure\r
+ someone can come up with some anonymity scheme but\r
+ transparency should be top priority. Apologies if the\r
+ point is too naive.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:1)\r
+ (by Anonymous Coward)\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Paper votes aren't any better, just look at Russia's vote\r
+ stuffing. Literately. Someone comes up to the booth and\r
+ stuffs fake/coerced votes into the box.\r
+ Now the way most US, Canadian, and UK elections are run,\r
+ the paper vote is a two-step process.\r
+ A) You go to a scrutineer to check your name off a PAPER\r
+ list, they hand you a ballot with no identifying\r
+ information on it\r
+ B) You mark an X on the ballot, fold it in half or stick\r
+ it in a privacy envelope and then stick it in a cardboard\r
+ box with a hole on top.\r
+ Now\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by PopeRatzo ( 965947 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > Paper votes aren't any better, just look at Russia's\r
+ > vote stuffing. Literately. Someone comes up to the\r
+ > booth and stuffs fake/coerced votes into the box.\r
+ That's right, because Russia doesn't have the same\r
+ safeguards built into their elections that we have. You\r
+ don't have election judges from both sides watching\r
+ every vote from the time it's cast to the time it's\r
+ counted to the time it's sent for storage. In the US,\r
+ there have to be two election judges on hand when\r
+ absentee ballots are opened.\r
+ People can sti\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by Ocker3 ( 1232550 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ I'd invite you to visit us in Australia, where we have the\r
+ Australian Electoral Commission (AEC), a non-partisan (not\r
+ bi-partisan) body of people who are collectively\r
+ considered the Platinum Standard of running elections\r
+ around the world. We actually send people to the USA to\r
+ train election staff. We don't have party reps in the\r
+ voting area until the polls close, then the parties can\r
+ send in scrutineers who check that the paper ballots are\r
+ being counted as per the regulations (when I did this I\r
+ actually not\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by PopeRatzo ( 965947 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > I'd invite you to visit us in Australia,\r
+ I've spent a fair amount of time in Australia. Yes,\r
+ I've heard you guys do a good job with elections, but\r
+ I'm not coming back until you get rid of those spiders\r
+ that jump up and bite you on the eye. Oh, and drop\r
+ bears and yowgwai. I don't need that kind of stress,\r
+ thanks.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by shellster_dude ( 1261444 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Blockchains are obviously a terrible solution to election\r
+ fraud. The only thing that prevents blockchain tampering is a\r
+ ton of neutral third party machines checking the transactions\r
+ (typically miners). We've already seen that this is a\r
+ non-trivial problem when there is plenty of incentive for\r
+ random people to fulfill that role (mining of crypto\r
+ currency). National elections have very little incentive for\r
+ people to invest thousands in hardware and electricity, and a\r
+ ton of incentive for nation states like\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Oh the irony (Score:4, Insightful)\r
+ (by the_skywise ( 189793 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > All elections should use human-readable paper ballots by 2020.\r
+ > Such systems are intended to assure voters that their vote was\r
+ > recorded accurately. They also create a lasting record of "voter\r
+ > intent" that can be used for reliable recounts,\r
+ Now I agree with this and am happy to move back to paper ballots\r
+ - But the entire reason we moved away from paper ballots was\r
+ because of the 2000 elections where Florida used punch cards and\r
+ political officers kept trying to argue over "partial punches",\r
+ "dimpled chads" and "dangling chads" where they tried to\r
+ reassess what the voter's INTENT was.\r
+ And, of course, let's not forget magical disappearing and\r
+ appearing boxes of ballots.\r
+ Any system can be hacked but the electronic one is harder to\r
+ track hacking than the good ol' traditional methods with paper\r
+ ballots.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3)\r
+ (by Dare nMc ( 468959 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Their have been academic papers proposing electronic system\r
+ that would be safe, where you could verify that your vote was\r
+ counted (IE received at the server.)\r
+ In theory with open software, hardware, and multiple servers\r
+ (again all open source) we could have a very robust\r
+ electronic voting system. This would require a large project\r
+ likely done with universities, and it may even be similar to\r
+ some bitcoin concepts.\r
+ The technology side is very solvable, getting the project\r
+ started, past the politics, and accept\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Key statement (Score:2, Insightful)\r
+ (by Anonymous Coward)\r
+\r
+ \r
+ They key statement in the finding that most technology solutions\r
+ fail to solve is this:\r
+ "Such systems are intended to *assure* voters that their vote\r
+ was recorded accurately."\r
+ In the end, paper ballots may seem inefficient from a processing\r
+ perspective, but that inefficiency becomes inherently difficult\r
+ to tamper with and builds in systems for checks and recounts.\r
+ The argument here is that blockchain is vulnerable before the\r
+ data is stored in the blockchain, at the UI and the machine\r
+ level, and blockchain th\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by presidenteloco ( 659168 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Blanket arguments against computer algorithms for secure\r
+ voting (or secure anything) are illogical, emotional, and\r
+ flawed.\r
+ People argue to the effect: Because many programs have been\r
+ found to have a security flaw in either A) the algorithm\r
+ mathematics and logical assumptions, or in B) the\r
+ implementation, therefore ALL programs must have some flaw in\r
+ A) or B) therefore there is no such thing is a secure\r
+ computer program. That is just bullshit. It's incorrect,\r
+ unsupported generalization from specific examples.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by presidenteloco ( 659168 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Ok, there's a stupid bug in slashdot apparently, not\r
+ including my less-than sign.\r
+ There. One bug.\r
+ What's up with that. Let me try again. Hmm. There was a\r
+ less-than in there just to the left of this sentence.\r
+ That's lame on slashdot software's part.\r
+ So you proved that ALL programs have bugs?\r
+ Didn't think so.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Paper ballots are by far the most secure solution (Score:4,\r
+ Insightful)\r
+ (by Seven Spirals ( 4924941 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Gimme a break. Use paper. Computers will be better tools for\r
+ tabulating and processing the votes after they are cast, but\r
+ it's tough to beat paper for a recount. Even paper has it's\r
+ flaws, but the hand waving crypto-bullshit is pathetic "Oh but\r
+ this counter signature will detect if the previous\r
+ initialization vector was properly zeroed inside of the S-Box"\r
+ *rolls eyes*. KISS baby. Things don't get more secure by making\r
+ them more complex and I can't think of any way to make something\r
+ more complex than to introduce computers. Computers are great at\r
+ some things, ideal for some tasks: not for voting. They suck at\r
+ that.\r
+\r
+ ** paper ballots (Score:1)\r
+ (by Anonymous Coward)\r
+\r
+ \r
+ The only way you can have some measure of accountability while\r
+ keeping votes anonymous.\r
+\r
+ ** Or, for heaven's sake, you can just use paper (Score:3)\r
+ (by mark-t ( 151149 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Make a simple mark on a paper ballot indicating your vote, fold\r
+ it, put it in a box.\r
+ done\r
+ Now theoretically you could bribe people who do the counting,\r
+ but you'd have to bribe a *LOT* of people to make any kind of\r
+ difference because each individual ballot box with the folded\r
+ ballots contains but a tiny fraction of the number of votes, and\r
+ nobody ever counts the ballots from more than one or sometimes\r
+ two different boxes.\r
+\r
+ ** the real story (Score:2)\r
+ (by slashmydots ( 2189826 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Blockchains are perfect, right? WRONG. And also right. They are\r
+ mathmatically flawless BUT if you outprocess the rest of the\r
+ network, you can finalize a block with whatever the hell you\r
+ want in it. You can form a block that says you own all bitcoins,\r
+ all transactions put them in your wallet, and you're also the\r
+ queen of England. The reason this "51% attack" doesn't happen it\r
+ because that amount of processing power doesn't exist. That many\r
+ ASICs don't exist on Earth. But let's set up a separate\r
+ blockchain an\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by Kaenneth ( 82978 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Even with a 51% attack, the Bitcoin blockchain is filled with\r
+ digital signatures; noone but your own nodes would accept the\r
+ blocks, and you would only be 'fooling' yourself.\r
+ Electronic voting could only work if every citizen had their\r
+ own private, secure, digital signature key. Which can't\r
+ happen in the US because poor people can't afford them, and a\r
+ certain party would never give anything for free, while the\r
+ other would protect the poor.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by jwymanm ( 627857 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ This was the dumbest comment in the article. Obviously\r
+ software methods exist to verify after the fact that what you\r
+ saved is what you expected.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** It's not how the vote was recorded... (Score:2)\r
+ (by LynnwoodRooster ( 966895 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > The report goes on to say that "Blockchains do not provide the\r
+ > anonymity often ascribed to them." It continues: "In the\r
+ > particular context of elections, voters need to be authorized as\r
+ > eligible to vote and as not having cast more than one ballot in\r
+ > the particular election.\r
+ It's who casts the vote. Before we even worry about Blockchain,\r
+ we need to ensure people casting the ballots are legally\r
+ eligible to vote. Guaranteeing a vote was cast is no more\r
+ important than guaranteeing who cast the vote was eligible to\r
+ actually cast that vote.\r
+\r
+ ** Paper ballots (Score:2)\r
+ (by burtosis ( 1124179 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Let me start out saying 100% electronic voting is going to be a\r
+ disaster, triply so when done remotely and not at a secure\r
+ voting machine. But what most people don't realize is we\r
+ currently use unencrypted images of paper ballots in many states\r
+ as backups. These are very insecure. Why not use paper ballots\r
+ for the primary method, blockchain for the electronic backups?\r
+ This ultimately seems far more secure than what we are doing\r
+ now. We also could use open source machines and have audits at\r
+ each polling\r
+\r
+\r
--- /dev/null
+0Blockchains Are Not Safe For Voting, Concludes NAP Report (nytimes.com) null/SLASHDOT/0102640864 70\r
+i Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (BeauHD)\r
+i from the ensuring-the-integrity-of-elections dept.\r
+i\r
+i The National Academies Press has released a 156-page report,\r
+i called "Securing the Vote: Protecting American Democracy,"\r
+i concluding that blockchains are not safe for the U.S. election\r
+i system. "While the notion of using a blockchain as an\r
+i immutable ballot box may seem promising, blockchain technology\r
+i does little to solve the fundamental security issues of\r
+i elections, and indeed, blockchains introduce additional\r
+i security vulnerabilities," the report states. "In particular,\r
+i if malware on a voter's device alters a vote before it ever\r
+i reaches a blockchain, the immutability of the blockchain fails\r
+i to provide the desired integrity, and the voter may never know\r
+i of the alteration." The report goes on to say that\r
+i "Blockchains do not provide the anonymity often ascribed to\r
+i them." It continues: "In the particular context of elections,\r
+i voters need to be authorized as eligible to vote and as not\r
+i having cast more than one ballot in the particular election.\r
+i Blockchains do not offer means for providing the necessary\r
+i authorization. [...] If a blockchain is used, then cast\r
+i ballots must be encrypted or otherwise anonymized to prevent\r
+i coercion and vote-selling." The New York Times summarizes the\r
+i findings: The cautiously worded report calls for conducting\r
+i all federal, state and local elections on paper ballots by\r
+i 2020. Its other top recommendation would require nationwide\r
+i use of a specific form of routine postelection audit to ensure\r
+i votes have been accurately counted. The panel did not offer a\r
+i price tag for its recommended overhaul. New York University's\r
+i Brennan Center has estimated that replacing aging voting\r
+i machines over the next few years could cost well over $1\r
+i billion. The 156-page report [...] bemoans a rickety system\r
+i compromised by insecure voting equipment and software whose\r
+i vulnerabilities were exposed more than a decade ago and which\r
+i are too often managed by officials with little training in\r
+i cybersecurity. Among its specific recommendations was a\r
+i mainstay of election reformers: All elections should use\r
+i human-readable paper ballots by 2020. Such systems are\r
+i intended to assure voters that their vote was recorded\r
+i accurately. They also create a lasting record of "voter\r
+i intent" that can be used for reliable recounts, which may not\r
+i be possible in systems that record votes electronically. [...]\r
+i The panel also calls for all states to adopt a type of\r
+i post-election audit that employs statistical analysis of\r
+i ballots prior to results certification. Such "risk-limiting"\r
+i audits are designed to uncover miscounts and vote tampering.\r
+i Currently only three states mandate them.\r
+i\r
--- /dev/null
+<!DOCTYPE html>
+<html>
+<head>
+ <meta http-equiv='content-type' content='text/html; charset=utf-8'>
+ <meta name='viewport' content='width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0'>
+ <style type='text/css'>
+ body { margin: 1em 15%; }
+ </style>
+</head>
+<body>
+<div class='story-header'>
+ <h1><a href='0102640864.html'>Blockchains Are Not Safe For Voting, Concludes NAP Report (nytimes.com)</a></h1>
+ <div class='details'>(Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (BeauHD)
+from the ensuring-the-integrity-of-elections dept.)</div>
+ <br/>
+ <div class='content' style='text-align: justify'>
+ The National Academies Press has released a 156-page report, called "Securing the Vote: Protecting American Democracy," concluding that blockchains are not safe for the U.S. election system. "While the notion of using a blockchain as an immutable ballot box may seem promising, blockchain technology does little to solve the fundamental security issues of elections, and indeed, blockchains introduce additional security vulnerabilities," the report states. "In particular, if malware on a voter's device alters a vote before it ever reaches a blockchain, the immutability of the blockchain fails to provide the desired integrity, and the voter may never know of the alteration." The report goes on to say that "Blockchains do not provide the anonymity often ascribed to them." It continues: "In the particular context of elections, voters need to be authorized as eligible to vote and as not having cast more than one ballot in the particular election. Blockchains do not offer means for providing the necessary authorization. [...] If a blockchain is used, then cast ballots must be encrypted or otherwise anonymized to prevent coercion and vote-selling." The New York Times summarizes the findings: The cautiously worded report calls for conducting all federal, state and local elections on paper ballots by 2020. Its other top recommendation would require nationwide use of a specific form of routine postelection audit to ensure votes have been accurately counted. The panel did not offer a price tag for its recommended overhaul. New York University's Brennan Center has estimated that replacing aging voting machines over the next few years could cost well over $1 billion. The 156-page report [...] bemoans a rickety system compromised by insecure voting equipment and software whose vulnerabilities were exposed more than a decade ago and which are too often managed by officials with little training in cybersecurity. Among its specific recommendations was a mainstay of election reformers: All elections should use human-readable paper ballots by 2020. Such systems are intended to assure voters that their vote was recorded accurately. They also create a lasting record of "voter intent" that can be used for reliable recounts, which may not be possible in systems that record votes electronically. [...] The panel also calls for all states to adopt a type of post-election audit that employs statistical analysis of ballots prior to results certification. Such "risk-limiting" audits are designed to uncover miscounts and vote tampering. Currently only three states mandate them.
+ </div>
+<hr/>
+</div>
+</body>
--- /dev/null
+<!DOCTYPE html>
+<html>
+<head>
+ <meta http-equiv='content-type' content='text/html; charset=utf-8'>
+ <meta name='viewport' content='width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0'>
+ <style type='text/css'>
+ body { margin: 1em 15%; }
+ </style>
+</head>
+<body>
+<div class='story'>
+ <h1>Blockchains Are Not Safe For Voting, Concludes NAP Report (nytimes.com)</h1>
+ <div class='details'>(Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (BeauHD)
+from the ensuring-the-integrity-of-elections dept.)</div>
+ <br/>
+ <ul>
+ <li>News link: <a href='https://politics.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2137245/blockchains-are-not-safe-for-voting-concludes-nap-report'>https://politics.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2137245/blockchains-are-not-safe-for-voting-concludes-nap-report</a></li>
+ <li>Source link: <a href='https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2018/09/06/technology/ap-us-tec-election-security-reform-report.html'>https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2018/09/06/technology/ap-us-tec-election-security-reform-report.html</a></li>
+ </ul>
+ <br/>
+ <div class='content' style='text-align: justify'>
+ The National Academies Press has released a 156-page report, called "Securing the Vote: Protecting American Democracy," concluding that blockchains are not safe for the U.S. election system. "While the notion of using a blockchain as an immutable ballot box may seem promising, blockchain technology does little to solve the fundamental security issues of elections, and indeed, blockchains introduce additional security vulnerabilities," the report states. "In particular, if malware on a voter's device alters a vote before it ever reaches a blockchain, the immutability of the blockchain fails to provide the desired integrity, and the voter may never know of the alteration." The report goes on to say that "Blockchains do not provide the anonymity often ascribed to them." It continues: "In the particular context of elections, voters need to be authorized as eligible to vote and as not having cast more than one ballot in the particular election. Blockchains do not offer means for providing the necessary authorization. [...] If a blockchain is used, then cast ballots must be encrypted or otherwise anonymized to prevent coercion and vote-selling." The New York Times summarizes the findings: The cautiously worded report calls for conducting all federal, state and local elections on paper ballots by 2020. Its other top recommendation would require nationwide use of a specific form of routine postelection audit to ensure votes have been accurately counted. The panel did not offer a price tag for its recommended overhaul. New York University's Brennan Center has estimated that replacing aging voting machines over the next few years could cost well over $1 billion. The 156-page report [...] bemoans a rickety system compromised by insecure voting equipment and software whose vulnerabilities were exposed more than a decade ago and which are too often managed by officials with little training in cybersecurity. Among its specific recommendations was a mainstay of election reformers: All elections should use human-readable paper ballots by 2020. Such systems are intended to assure voters that their vote was recorded accurately. They also create a lasting record of "voter intent" that can be used for reliable recounts, which may not be possible in systems that record votes electronically. [...] The panel also calls for all states to adopt a type of post-election audit that employs statistical analysis of ballots prior to results certification. Such "risk-limiting" audits are designed to uncover miscounts and vote tampering. Currently only three states mandate them.
+ </div>
+<hr/>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re:All security = an implementation. (Score:5, Insightful)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by PopeRatzo ( 965947 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> To say blockchain is inherently unsafe is like saying software is inherently unsafe</p><p>Oh, you are so close to a breakthrough.</p><p>When it comes to voting, blockchain, like software, IS inherently unsafe. If the main goal for voting security is maintaining the people's confidence in an election, the only system that will meet that standard is a system where people are actually keeping an eye on one another. And I mean physically watching one another. And that's the system we had in place before the advent of voting machines and election software. You had a room full of election judges from both sides, and they sat side-by-side checking in voters as they approached the voting booth and physically watched them put the ballot in the box. When the votes were counted, there was a whole bunch of people from both parties standing around keeping a close eye. When the ballots were sent for storage, one person from each party rode in the truck to drop them off after sealing the container - together - and signing off.</p><p>It was trust, but verify. Was it possible to jigger with an election like that? Of course. But you had a list of names of people you could hold accountable at every step in the process. Electronic voting will never, ever be trusted. That is the effect of transparency.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:1, Insightful)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Anonymous Coward</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> " If the main goal for voting security is maintaining the people's confidence in an election " - Well I don't agree with that starting point definition. I think security = security, not theater of.</p><p>Then you're bad at security. Security is theater.</p><p>There is no impregnable system. Security can only increase the difficulty of entering a system, it cannot stop a determined opponent. Is a CCTV system going to stop someone from breaking into your store? No, but it will make the person think twice about it, because they are likely to be recorded, found, and caught. Is the TSA likely to stop all bad guys from getting on planes? No, but it alters how much they must prepare to get on board the plane so hop</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Ocker3 ( 1232550 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Sadly, the TSA haven't shown themselves to be any good at their job, repeatedly. It's hard to get good help when the work is shite, the 'customers' range from sullen to hating you, and the pay is peanuts.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Transparency is the key (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by victor_alarcon ( 5520418 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>I thought that was the main selling point. Yes, I'm sure someone can come up with some anonymity scheme but transparency should be top priority. Apologies if the point is too naive.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Anonymous Coward</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Paper votes aren't any better, just look at Russia's vote stuffing. Literately. Someone comes up to the booth and stuffs fake/coerced votes into the box.</p><p>Now the way most US, Canadian, and UK elections are run, the paper vote is a two-step process.</p><p>A) You go to a scrutineer to check your name off a PAPER list, they hand you a ballot with no identifying information on it</p><p>B) You mark an X on the ballot, fold it in half or stick it in a privacy envelope and then stick it in a cardboard box with a hole on top.</p><p>Now</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by PopeRatzo ( 965947 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> Paper votes aren't any better, just look at Russia's vote stuffing. Literately. Someone comes up to the booth and stuffs fake/coerced votes into the box.</p><p>That's right, because Russia doesn't have the same safeguards built into their elections that we have. You don't have election judges from both sides watching every vote from the time it's cast to the time it's counted to the time it's sent for storage. In the US, there have to be two election judges on hand when absentee ballots are opened.</p><p>People can sti</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Ocker3 ( 1232550 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>I'd invite you to visit us in Australia, where we have the Australian Electoral Commission (AEC), a non-partisan (not bi-partisan) body of people who are collectively considered the Platinum Standard of running elections around the world. We actually send people to the USA to train election staff. We don't have party reps in the voting area until the polls close, then the parties can send in scrutineers who check that the paper ballots are being counted as per the regulations (when I did this I actually not</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by PopeRatzo ( 965947 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> I'd invite you to visit us in Australia,</p><p>I've spent a fair amount of time in Australia. Yes, I've heard you guys do a good job with elections, but I'm not coming back until you get rid of those spiders that jump up and bite you on the eye. Oh, and drop bears and yowgwai. I don't need that kind of stress, thanks.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by shellster_dude ( 1261444 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Blockchains are obviously a terrible solution to election fraud. The only thing that prevents blockchain tampering is a ton of neutral third party machines checking the transactions (typically miners). We've already seen that this is a non-trivial problem when there is plenty of incentive for random people to fulfill that role (mining of crypto currency). National elections have very little incentive for people to invest thousands in hardware and electricity, and a ton of incentive for nation states like</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Oh the irony (Score:4, Insightful)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by the_skywise ( 189793 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> All elections should use human-readable paper ballots by 2020. Such systems are intended to assure voters that their vote was recorded accurately. They also create a lasting record of "voter intent" that can be used for reliable recounts,</p><p>Now I agree with this and am happy to move back to paper ballots - But the entire reason we moved away from paper ballots was because of the 2000 elections where Florida used punch cards and political officers kept trying to argue over "partial punches", "dimpled chads" and "dangling chads" where they tried to reassess what the voter's INTENT was.</p><p>And, of course, let's not forget magical disappearing and appearing boxes of ballots.</p><p>Any system can be hacked but the electronic one is harder to track hacking than the good ol' traditional methods with paper ballots.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Dare nMc ( 468959 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Their have been academic papers proposing electronic system that would be safe, where you could verify that your vote was counted (IE received at the server.)</p><p>In theory with open software, hardware, and multiple servers (again all open source) we could have a very robust electronic voting system. This would require a large project likely done with universities, and it may even be similar to some bitcoin concepts.</p><p>The technology side is very solvable, getting the project started, past the politics, and accept</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Key statement (Score:2, Insightful)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Anonymous Coward</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>They key statement in the finding that most technology solutions fail to solve is this:</p><p>"Such systems are intended to *assure* voters that their vote was recorded accurately."</p><p>In the end, paper ballots may seem inefficient from a processing perspective, but that inefficiency becomes inherently difficult to tamper with and builds in systems for checks and recounts. The argument here is that blockchain is vulnerable before the data is stored in the blockchain, at the UI and the machine level, and blockchain th</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by presidenteloco ( 659168 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Blanket arguments against computer algorithms for secure voting (or secure anything) are illogical, emotional, and flawed.</p><p>People argue to the effect: Because many programs have been found to have a security flaw in either A) the algorithm mathematics and logical assumptions, or in B) the implementation, therefore ALL programs must have some flaw in A) or B) therefore there is no such thing is a secure computer program. That is just bullshit. It's incorrect, unsupported generalization from specific examples.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by presidenteloco ( 659168 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Ok, there's a stupid bug in slashdot apparently, not including my less-than sign.</p><p>There. One bug.</p><p>What's up with that. Let me try again. Hmm. There was a less-than in there just to the left of this sentence. That's lame on slashdot software's part.</p><p>So you proved that ALL programs have bugs?</p><p>Didn't think so.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Paper ballots are by far the most secure solution (Score:4, Insightful)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Seven Spirals ( 4924941 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Gimme a break. Use paper. Computers will be better tools for tabulating and processing the votes after they are cast, but it's tough to beat paper for a recount. Even paper has it's flaws, but the hand waving crypto-bullshit is pathetic "Oh but this counter signature will detect if the previous initialization vector was properly zeroed inside of the S-Box" *rolls eyes*. KISS baby. Things don't get more secure by making them more complex and I can't think of any way to make something more complex than to introduce computers. Computers are great at some things, ideal for some tasks: not for voting. They suck at that.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>paper ballots (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Anonymous Coward</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>The only way you can have some measure of accountability while keeping votes anonymous.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Or, for heaven's sake, you can just use paper (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by mark-t ( 151149 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Make a simple mark on a paper ballot indicating your vote, fold it, put it in a box.</p><p>done</p><p>Now theoretically you could bribe people who do the counting, but you'd have to bribe a *LOT* of people to make any kind of difference because each individual ballot box with the folded ballots contains but a tiny fraction of the number of votes, and nobody ever counts the ballots from more than one or sometimes two different boxes.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>the real story (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by slashmydots ( 2189826 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Blockchains are perfect, right? WRONG. And also right. They are mathmatically flawless BUT if you outprocess the rest of the network, you can finalize a block with whatever the hell you want in it. You can form a block that says you own all bitcoins, all transactions put them in your wallet, and you're also the queen of England. The reason this "51% attack" doesn't happen it because that amount of processing power doesn't exist. That many ASICs don't exist on Earth. But let's set up a separate blockchain an</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Kaenneth ( 82978 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Even with a 51% attack, the Bitcoin blockchain is filled with digital signatures; noone but your own nodes would accept the blocks, and you would only be 'fooling' yourself.</p><p>Electronic voting could only work if every citizen had their own private, secure, digital signature key. Which can't happen in the US because poor people can't afford them, and a certain party would never give anything for free, while the other would protect the poor.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by jwymanm ( 627857 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>This was the dumbest comment in the article. Obviously software methods exist to verify after the fact that what you saved is what you expected.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>It's not how the vote was recorded... (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by LynnwoodRooster ( 966895 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> The report goes on to say that "Blockchains do not provide the anonymity often ascribed to them." It continues: "In the particular context of elections, voters need to be authorized as eligible to vote and as not having cast more than one ballot in the particular election.</p><p>It's who casts the vote. Before we even worry about Blockchain, we need to ensure people casting the ballots are legally eligible to vote. Guaranteeing a vote was cast is no more important than guaranteeing who cast the vote was eligible to actually cast that vote.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Paper ballots (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by burtosis ( 1124179 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Let me start out saying 100% electronic voting is going to be a disaster, triply so when done remotely and not at a secure voting machine. But what most people don't realize is we currently use unencrypted images of paper ballots in many states as backups. These are very insecure. Why not use paper ballots for the primary method, blockchain for the electronic backups? This ultimately seems far more secure than what we are doing now. We also could use open source machines and have audits at each polling</p></div>
+ </div>
+</div>
+</body>
--- /dev/null
+ VALVE EXPLAINS HOW IT DECIDES WHO'S A 'STRAIGHT UP TROLL' \r
+ PUBLISHING VIDEO GAMES ON STEAM (VICE.COM) \r
+\r
+ Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (BeauHD)\r
+ from the behind-the-scenes dept.\r
+\r
+ o News link: https://games.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2146237/valve-explains-how-it-decides-whos-a-straight-up-troll-publishing-video-games-on-steam\r
+ o Source link: https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/9kmej7/valve-it-really-does-seem-bad-games-are-made-by-bad-people\r
+\r
+\r
+ An anonymous reader quotes a report from Motherboard:\r
+ Wednesday, Valve, the company that operates the huge online\r
+ video game store Steam, shared more details about how it plans\r
+ to control and moderate the ever-increasing number of games\r
+ published on its platform. In the post published Wednesday,\r
+ Valve shared more details about how it determines what it\r
+ considers "outright trolling." "It is vague and we'll tell you\r
+ why," Valve wrote. "You're a denizen of the internet so you\r
+ know that trolls come in all forms. On Steam, some are simply\r
+ trying to rile people up with something we call 'a game shaped\r
+ object' (ie: a crudely made piece of software that technically\r
+ and just barely passes our bar as a functioning video game but\r
+ isn't what 99.9% of folks would say is "good.") Valve goes on\r
+ to explain that some trolls are trying to scam folks out of\r
+ their Steam inventory items (digital items that can be traded\r
+ for real money), while others are trying to generate a small\r
+ amount of money through a variety of schemes that have to do\r
+ with how developers use keys to unlock Steam games, while\r
+ others are trying to "incite and sow discord." "Trolls are\r
+ figuring out new ways to be loathsome as we write this," Valve\r
+ said. "But the thing these folks have in common is that they\r
+ aren't actually interested in good faith efforts to make and\r
+ sell games to you or anyone. When a developer's motives aren't\r
+ that, they're probably a troll." One interesting observation\r
+ Valve shares in the blog post is that it rarely bans\r
+ individual games from Steam, and more often bans developers\r
+ and/or publishers entirely. [...] Valve said that its review\r
+ process for determining that something may be a "troll game"\r
+ is a "deep assessment" that involves investigating who the\r
+ developer is, what they've done in the past, their behavior on\r
+ Steam as a developer, as a customer, their banking\r
+ information, developers they associate with, and more.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Just charge a $5K "listing fee" (Score:5, Interesting)\r
+ (by west ( 39918 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ 98% of the total garbage disappears (as well as a few percent of\r
+ the good). Of course "not terribly good games" will still\r
+ appear, but it gets rid of the absolute garbage.\r
+ Or if people are appalled at paying to appear on Steam, allow\r
+ spending $10K for a Steam "check-mark of marketing", and allow\r
+ users to filter to show only check-marked games.\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:1)\r
+ (by Anonymous Coward)\r
+\r
+ \r
+ "Choices"???\r
+ Thirty-five (35) games were released on Steam today alone .\r
+ Go fuck yourself.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Steam wants the garbage (Score:3)\r
+ (by rsilvergun ( 571051 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ because there's no accounting for taste, and if you took away\r
+ garbage there'd be no Goat Simulator. As the saying goes, one\r
+ man's trash is another's treasure.\r
+ \r
+ Plus, a lot of good devs get their start making trash.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3)\r
+ (by AC-x ( 735297 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > because there's no accounting for taste, and if you took\r
+ > away garbage there'd be no Goat Simulator. As the saying\r
+ > goes, one man's trash is another's treasure.\r
+ I'm sorry, but anyone with a functioning brain would see\r
+ that infinitely more effort and polish has been put in to\r
+ games like Goat Simulator than any of those garbage "asset\r
+ flips" that litter the Steam store.\r
+ Yes the difference between a good and bad game is\r
+ subjective, but broken zero effort trash is much easier to\r
+ agree on...\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by mentil ( 1748130 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Will never happen. There are way too many games like PUBG\r
+ that would've never become Steam hits if they had such a\r
+ policy. It only needs to be enough to make the trolls miss\r
+ it/lose out with their scams; $100 would likely be enough.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by Escogido ( 884359 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Either would shut a lot of starting indie games developers\r
+ out of the system, thus preventing said developers and the\r
+ gaming industry in general from making future hits.\r
+ Basically, all new games are either essentially\r
+ reskins/clones of existing games, or trying new mechanics\r
+ and/or interactions, and sometimes (rarely) stories and\r
+ characters. Given the typical indie level production values\r
+ are garbage, in general, only the ones that try to innovate\r
+ actually do have some value for the industry. However, first\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Best New Feature (Score:2)\r
+ (by Kunedog ( 1033226 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > A second set of changes was focused on improving how you can\r
+ > ignore things you're not interested in. In the past you've been\r
+ > able to ignore individual games or product types (like VR, or\r
+ > Early Access) you didn't want to see again. But now we've added\r
+ > ways for you to also easily ignore individual developers,\r
+ > publishers, and curators.\r
+ Imagine how much easier browsing Netflix would be if you could\r
+ filter out whole franchises and showrunners. Of course, that\r
+ might make it obvious how little on Netflix actually interests\r
+ you.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2, Funny)\r
+ (by Anonymous Coward)\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Then they could charge a fee to shows that don't want to be\r
+ filtered by you\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by Archfeld ( 6757 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Sounds like Amazon, and the Kindle Library. No matter what\r
+ you search, every 7th listing is a 'Sponsored' listing,\r
+ and even if you specify a particular author or absolute\r
+ title, you always get 10 or 12 additional 'bonus' items\r
+ listed.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Early Access Garbage and abandonment (Score:2)\r
+ (by shendar ( 674986 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ How about if a developer starts a EA Project and walks away\r
+ (takes forever with no progress) they are banned from further\r
+ EA? How about if they are banned from the store entirely?\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3)\r
+ (by AC-x ( 735297 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ I'm sure the type of developer who does that would simply\r
+ abandon their old label and create a new developer account to\r
+ carry on.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by mentil ( 1748130 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ "I'm sick of development, so here's version '1.0'."\r
+ Also define 'forever' in a timescale that doesn't apply to\r
+ Notch, Rockstar or Valve.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by Calydor ( 739835 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Wait. I see what you did there.\r
+ You mentioned three developers.\r
+ CONFIRMED: Half-Life 3 is being produced by Notch and\r
+ Rockstar!\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Great Yet Another Meaning For Troll (Score:1)\r
+ (by Crashmarik ( 635988 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Already May well be the most overloaded operator in the English\r
+ language. As it seems to mean anything anyone anywhere takes\r
+ objection to, or otherwise makes them feel bad.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: Great Yet Another Meaning For Troll (Score:2)\r
+ (by Nidi62 ( 1525137 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ The troll in me wants to say that "nazi" probably has "troll"\r
+ beat ;)\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by tepples ( 727027 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Furthermore, unlike console and mobile platforms, Steam has\r
+ very little switching cost. An end user can always just up\r
+ and switch to Itch or Origin or GOG or Humble or wherever\r
+ else.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Steam's progression (Score:3)\r
+ (by Luckyo ( 1726890 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ So Steam started as "shove it down their throats" Counter Strike\r
+ 1.6 launcher. Evolved into highly curated game store over about\r
+ a decade.\r
+ Then decided to suddenly drop all curation and allow anything\r
+ and everything on the platform. Got flooded with garbage. Added\r
+ weird "meta gaming" shit like trading cards. Got games that\r
+ literally existed just to allow people to get cards. Allowed\r
+ some trading and other meta gaming of the system. Even got\r
+ pressured by some SJW types to drop politically controversial\r
+ games like Hatred and even had their recent porn games brouhaha.\r
+ And now, they're doing this. I guess there's just too much\r
+ pressure from all directions, and they really just decided that\r
+ no, we're not bending to various pressure groups, and instead\r
+ just making sure that asset flips and such are not on the store.\r
+ If true, good on them.\r
+\r
+ ** Early Access (Score:2)\r
+ (by tylersoze ( 789256 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Eh, all I really want from Valve is a filter that blocks all\r
+ "Early Access" games from ever appearing, as I'm browsing for\r
+ games on their web site.\r
+\r
+\r
--- /dev/null
+0Valve Explains How It Decides Who's a 'Straight Up Troll' Publishing Video Games On Steam (vice.com) null/SLASHDOT/0102640946 70\r
+i Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (BeauHD)\r
+i from the behind-the-scenes dept.\r
+i\r
+i An anonymous reader quotes a report from Motherboard:\r
+i Wednesday, Valve, the company that operates the huge online\r
+i video game store Steam, shared more details about how it plans\r
+i to control and moderate the ever-increasing number of games\r
+i published on its platform. In the post published Wednesday,\r
+i Valve shared more details about how it determines what it\r
+i considers "outright trolling." "It is vague and we'll tell you\r
+i why," Valve wrote. "You're a denizen of the internet so you\r
+i know that trolls come in all forms. On Steam, some are simply\r
+i trying to rile people up with something we call 'a game shaped\r
+i object' (ie: a crudely made piece of software that technically\r
+i and just barely passes our bar as a functioning video game but\r
+i isn't what 99.9% of folks would say is "good.") Valve goes on\r
+i to explain that some trolls are trying to scam folks out of\r
+i their Steam inventory items (digital items that can be traded\r
+i for real money), while others are trying to generate a small\r
+i amount of money through a variety of schemes that have to do\r
+i with how developers use keys to unlock Steam games, while\r
+i others are trying to "incite and sow discord." "Trolls are\r
+i figuring out new ways to be loathsome as we write this," Valve\r
+i said. "But the thing these folks have in common is that they\r
+i aren't actually interested in good faith efforts to make and\r
+i sell games to you or anyone. When a developer's motives aren't\r
+i that, they're probably a troll." One interesting observation\r
+i Valve shares in the blog post is that it rarely bans\r
+i individual games from Steam, and more often bans developers\r
+i and/or publishers entirely. [...] Valve said that its review\r
+i process for determining that something may be a "troll game"\r
+i is a "deep assessment" that involves investigating who the\r
+i developer is, what they've done in the past, their behavior on\r
+i Steam as a developer, as a customer, their banking\r
+i information, developers they associate with, and more.\r
+i\r
--- /dev/null
+<!DOCTYPE html>
+<html>
+<head>
+ <meta http-equiv='content-type' content='text/html; charset=utf-8'>
+ <meta name='viewport' content='width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0'>
+ <style type='text/css'>
+ body { margin: 1em 15%; }
+ </style>
+</head>
+<body>
+<div class='story-header'>
+ <h1><a href='0102640946.html'>Valve Explains How It Decides Who's a 'Straight Up Troll' Publishing Video Games On Steam (vice.com)</a></h1>
+ <div class='details'>(Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (BeauHD)
+from the behind-the-scenes dept.)</div>
+ <br/>
+ <div class='content' style='text-align: justify'>
+ An anonymous reader quotes a report from Motherboard: Wednesday, Valve, the company that operates the huge online video game store Steam, shared more details about how it plans to control and moderate the ever-increasing number of games published on its platform. In the post published Wednesday, Valve shared more details about how it determines what it considers "outright trolling." "It is vague and we'll tell you why," Valve wrote. "You're a denizen of the internet so you know that trolls come in all forms. On Steam, some are simply trying to rile people up with something we call 'a game shaped object' (ie: a crudely made piece of software that technically and just barely passes our bar as a functioning video game but isn't what 99.9% of folks would say is "good.") Valve goes on to explain that some trolls are trying to scam folks out of their Steam inventory items (digital items that can be traded for real money), while others are trying to generate a small amount of money through a variety of schemes that have to do with how developers use keys to unlock Steam games, while others are trying to "incite and sow discord." "Trolls are figuring out new ways to be loathsome as we write this," Valve said. "But the thing these folks have in common is that they aren't actually interested in good faith efforts to make and sell games to you or anyone. When a developer's motives aren't that, they're probably a troll." One interesting observation Valve shares in the blog post is that it rarely bans individual games from Steam, and more often bans developers and/or publishers entirely. [...] Valve said that its review process for determining that something may be a "troll game" is a "deep assessment" that involves investigating who the developer is, what they've done in the past, their behavior on Steam as a developer, as a customer, their banking information, developers they associate with, and more.
+ </div>
+<hr/>
+</div>
+</body>
--- /dev/null
+<!DOCTYPE html>
+<html>
+<head>
+ <meta http-equiv='content-type' content='text/html; charset=utf-8'>
+ <meta name='viewport' content='width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0'>
+ <style type='text/css'>
+ body { margin: 1em 15%; }
+ </style>
+</head>
+<body>
+<div class='story'>
+ <h1>Valve Explains How It Decides Who's a 'Straight Up Troll' Publishing Video Games On Steam (vice.com)</h1>
+ <div class='details'>(Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (BeauHD)
+from the behind-the-scenes dept.)</div>
+ <br/>
+ <ul>
+ <li>News link: <a href='https://games.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2146237/valve-explains-how-it-decides-whos-a-straight-up-troll-publishing-video-games-on-steam'>https://games.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2146237/valve-explains-how-it-decides-whos-a-straight-up-troll-publishing-video-games-on-steam</a></li>
+ <li>Source link: <a href='https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/9kmej7/valve-it-really-does-seem-bad-games-are-made-by-bad-people'>https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/9kmej7/valve-it-really-does-seem-bad-games-are-made-by-bad-people</a></li>
+ </ul>
+ <br/>
+ <div class='content' style='text-align: justify'>
+ An anonymous reader quotes a report from Motherboard: Wednesday, Valve, the company that operates the huge online video game store Steam, shared more details about how it plans to control and moderate the ever-increasing number of games published on its platform. In the post published Wednesday, Valve shared more details about how it determines what it considers "outright trolling." "It is vague and we'll tell you why," Valve wrote. "You're a denizen of the internet so you know that trolls come in all forms. On Steam, some are simply trying to rile people up with something we call 'a game shaped object' (ie: a crudely made piece of software that technically and just barely passes our bar as a functioning video game but isn't what 99.9% of folks would say is "good.") Valve goes on to explain that some trolls are trying to scam folks out of their Steam inventory items (digital items that can be traded for real money), while others are trying to generate a small amount of money through a variety of schemes that have to do with how developers use keys to unlock Steam games, while others are trying to "incite and sow discord." "Trolls are figuring out new ways to be loathsome as we write this," Valve said. "But the thing these folks have in common is that they aren't actually interested in good faith efforts to make and sell games to you or anyone. When a developer's motives aren't that, they're probably a troll." One interesting observation Valve shares in the blog post is that it rarely bans individual games from Steam, and more often bans developers and/or publishers entirely. [...] Valve said that its review process for determining that something may be a "troll game" is a "deep assessment" that involves investigating who the developer is, what they've done in the past, their behavior on Steam as a developer, as a customer, their banking information, developers they associate with, and more.
+ </div>
+<hr/>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Just charge a $5K "listing fee" (Score:5, Interesting)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by west ( 39918 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>98% of the total garbage disappears (as well as a few percent of the good). Of course "not terribly good games" will still appear, but it gets rid of the absolute garbage.</p><p>Or if people are appalled at paying to appear on Steam, allow spending $10K for a Steam "check-mark of marketing", and allow users to filter to show only check-marked games.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Anonymous Coward</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>"Choices"???</p><p>Thirty-five (35) games were released on Steam today alone .</p><p>Go fuck yourself.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Steam wants the garbage (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by rsilvergun ( 571051 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>because there's no accounting for taste, and if you took away garbage there'd be no Goat Simulator. As the saying goes, one man's trash is another's treasure.</p><p></p><p>Plus, a lot of good devs get their start making trash.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by AC-x ( 735297 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> because there's no accounting for taste, and if you took away garbage there'd be no Goat Simulator. As the saying goes, one man's trash is another's treasure.</p><p>I'm sorry, but anyone with a functioning brain would see that infinitely more effort and polish has been put in to games like Goat Simulator than any of those garbage "asset flips" that litter the Steam store.</p><p>Yes the difference between a good and bad game is subjective, but broken zero effort trash is much easier to agree on...</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by mentil ( 1748130 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Will never happen. There are way too many games like PUBG that would've never become Steam hits if they had such a policy. It only needs to be enough to make the trolls miss it/lose out with their scams; $100 would likely be enough.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Escogido ( 884359 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Either would shut a lot of starting indie games developers out of the system, thus preventing said developers and the gaming industry in general from making future hits. Basically, all new games are either essentially reskins/clones of existing games, or trying new mechanics and/or interactions, and sometimes (rarely) stories and characters. Given the typical indie level production values are garbage, in general, only the ones that try to innovate actually do have some value for the industry. However, first</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Best New Feature (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Kunedog ( 1033226 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> A second set of changes was focused on improving how you can ignore things you're not interested in. In the past you've been able to ignore individual games or product types (like VR, or Early Access) you didn't want to see again. But now we've added ways for you to also easily ignore individual developers, publishers, and curators.</p><p>Imagine how much easier browsing Netflix would be if you could filter out whole franchises and showrunners. Of course, that might make it obvious how little on Netflix actually interests you.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2, Funny)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Anonymous Coward</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Then they could charge a fee to shows that don't want to be filtered by you</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Archfeld ( 6757 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Sounds like Amazon, and the Kindle Library. No matter what you search, every 7th listing is a 'Sponsored' listing, and even if you specify a particular author or absolute title, you always get 10 or 12 additional 'bonus' items listed.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Early Access Garbage and abandonment (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by shendar ( 674986 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>How about if a developer starts a EA Project and walks away (takes forever with no progress) they are banned from further EA? How about if they are banned from the store entirely?</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by AC-x ( 735297 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>I'm sure the type of developer who does that would simply abandon their old label and create a new developer account to carry on.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by mentil ( 1748130 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>"I'm sick of development, so here's version '1.0'."</p><p>Also define 'forever' in a timescale that doesn't apply to Notch, Rockstar or Valve.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Calydor ( 739835 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Wait. I see what you did there.</p><p>You mentioned three developers.</p><p>CONFIRMED: Half-Life 3 is being produced by Notch and Rockstar!</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Great Yet Another Meaning For Troll (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Crashmarik ( 635988 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Already May well be the most overloaded operator in the English language. As it seems to mean anything anyone anywhere takes objection to, or otherwise makes them feel bad.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: Great Yet Another Meaning For Troll (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Nidi62 ( 1525137 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>The troll in me wants to say that "nazi" probably has "troll" beat ;)</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by tepples ( 727027 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Furthermore, unlike console and mobile platforms, Steam has very little switching cost. An end user can always just up and switch to Itch or Origin or GOG or Humble or wherever else.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Steam's progression (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Luckyo ( 1726890 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>So Steam started as "shove it down their throats" Counter Strike 1.6 launcher. Evolved into highly curated game store over about a decade.</p><p>Then decided to suddenly drop all curation and allow anything and everything on the platform. Got flooded with garbage. Added weird "meta gaming" shit like trading cards. Got games that literally existed just to allow people to get cards. Allowed some trading and other meta gaming of the system. Even got pressured by some SJW types to drop politically controversial games like Hatred and even had their recent porn games brouhaha.</p><p>And now, they're doing this. I guess there's just too much pressure from all directions, and they really just decided that no, we're not bending to various pressure groups, and instead just making sure that asset flips and such are not on the store. If true, good on them.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Early Access (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by tylersoze ( 789256 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Eh, all I really want from Valve is a filter that blocks all "Early Access" games from ever appearing, as I'm browsing for games on their web site.</p></div>
+ </div>
+</div>
+</body>
--- /dev/null
+ STUDY FINDS PROBIOTICS 'NOT AS BENEFICIAL FOR GUT HEALTH AS \r
+ PREVIOUSLY THOUGHT' (THEGUARDIAN.COM) \r
+\r
+ Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (BeauHD)\r
+ from the contrary-to-popular-belief dept.\r
+\r
+ o News link: https://science.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2153223/study-finds-probiotics-not-as-beneficial-for-gut-health-as-previously-thought\r
+ o Source link: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/sep/06/probiotics-not-as-beneficial-for-gut-health-as-previously-thought\r
+\r
+\r
+ An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Guardian: The gut\r
+ microbiome is the sum total of all the micro-organisms living\r
+ in a person's gut, and has been shown to play a huge role in\r
+ human health. New research has found probiotics -- usually\r
+ taken as supplements or in foods such as yoghurt, kimchi or\r
+ kefir -- can hinder a patient's gut microbiome from returning\r
+ to normal after a course of antibiotics, and that different\r
+ people respond to probiotics in dramatically different ways.\r
+ In the first of two papers published in the journal Cell,\r
+ researchers performed endoscopies and colonoscopies to sample\r
+ and study the gut microbiomes of people who took antibiotics\r
+ before and after probiotic consumption. Another group were\r
+ given samples of their own gut microbiomes collected before\r
+ consuming antibiotics. The researchers found the microbiomes\r
+ of those who had taken the probiotics had suffered a "very\r
+ severe disturbance." "Once the probiotics had colonized the\r
+ gut, they completely inhibited the return of the indigenous\r
+ microbiome which was disrupted during antibiotic treatment,"\r
+ said Eran Elinav, an immunologist at the Weizmann Institute of\r
+ Science in Israel and lead author on the studies. The\r
+ scientists also compared the gut microbiomes of the gut\r
+ intestinal tract of 25 volunteers with that of their stools.\r
+ They found that stool bacteria only partially correlated with\r
+ the microbiomes functioning inside their bodies. "So the fact\r
+ that we all almost exclusively rely on stool in our microbiome\r
+ research may not be a reliable way of studying gut microbiome\r
+ health," said Elinav. In the second paper, the researchers\r
+ examined the colonization and impact of probiotics on 15\r
+ people by sampling within their gastrointestinal tract. They\r
+ divided the individuals into two groups: one were given a\r
+ preparation made of 11 strains of very commonly used\r
+ probiotics and the other were given a placebo. Of those who\r
+ were given probiotics, he said, "We could group the\r
+ individuals into two distinct groups: one which resisted the\r
+ colonisation of the probiotics, and one in which the\r
+ probiotics colonized the gut and modified the composition of\r
+ the gut microbiome and the genes of the host individual."\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by jblues ( 1703158 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Bacteria are are naturally present in raw fruit and\r
+ vegetables and naturally fermented foods, including naturally\r
+ fermented bread. Most cold climate cultures relied on\r
+ fermented vegetables to get them through the winter. Salt\r
+ fermentation of raw vegetables allows the lactobacillus\r
+ bacterias to proliferate. Almost all of the sugars are\r
+ consumed, however most of the rest of nutritional profile is\r
+ intact, including the vitamin C. In some cases the\r
+ nutritional profile is enhanced. This is why viking sailors\r
+ di\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Bitter sweet (Score:3, Informative)\r
+ (by Anonymous Coward)\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Been saying this for years. I get some people have IBS but the\r
+ reliance on things like yogurt is crazy.\r
+ Fun little tip for a stomach ache - saliva. Let it build in your\r
+ mouth (without water) and swallow in one gulp. Not only does it\r
+ give your mouth a natural way to break down any bateria / sugar,\r
+ but helps to calm your gut. Mouthwash is the nuclear option.\r
+ So much of how your body functions comes down to diet. It's\r
+ interesting they do not go into what foods were consumed.\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3)\r
+ (by omnichad ( 1198475 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ The "S" stands for syndrome, which identifies it as a\r
+ collection of symptoms and not a disease. It's a diagnosis\r
+ only in that there are good ways to treat the symptoms\r
+ even when you don't understand the root cause fully.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** I guess it's back to (Score:2)\r
+ (by bobstreo ( 1320787 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ shit transplants for the health crazed. /s\r
+ Seriously, is anything really good or really bad for you in\r
+ moderation?\r
+\r
+ ** Don't take probiotic pills (Score:5, Insightful)\r
+ (by PopeRatzo ( 965947 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Don't waste your money on probiotic capsules. If you want to try\r
+ to increase the amount or variety of bacteria in your guts,\r
+ there are tons of delicious foods that are chock full of\r
+ probiotics. Olives, pickles, fermented meats like the Italian\r
+ delicacy soprasetta (which might be the tastiest thing ever\r
+ invented by humans). Kimchi is also good, but it will make you\r
+ smell bad, so if you're single, you might want to go easy on the\r
+ kimchi.\r
+ Also, if you use vinegar on salads, try getting some of that\r
+ good cider vinegar that still has the "mother" in it. Shake the\r
+ bottle and use like any other vinegar. And of course, yogurt,\r
+ kefir, that kind of stuff is delicious too.\r
+ I'm not crazy about kombucha. It's a big fad now and there are\r
+ places here in California that have kombucha on tap, but it's\r
+ not really to my taste. Some people swear by it. I notice that\r
+ now when you buy it in the store, they ask for an ID since\r
+ there's a small amount of alcohol in it.\r
+ Also, alcohol is not really good for your gut bacteria, but\r
+ there are more important things in life than gut bacteria, you\r
+ know? Just eat a lot of different kinds of food and you'll end\r
+ up with good gut bacteria without even trying.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: Don't take probiotic pills (Score:3)\r
+ (by ljw1004 ( 764174 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Why would you advise people on natural sources of probiotics\r
+ - in response to an article which said that they're either\r
+ ineffectual or actually bad?\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by omnichad ( 1198475 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ They likely contain a lot more biodiversity vs. a\r
+ monoculture or handful of strains in probiotic\r
+ supplements. And they would still probably be ineffectual\r
+ most of the time, except after antibiotic use. This study\r
+ doesn't cover any of that. Of course if you're trying to\r
+ feed the microbiome you already have, eating unfermented\r
+ vegetables makes more sense as they still have the complex\r
+ sugars like oligosaccharides, fructans and so on that\r
+ would feed it. That depends on whether you are\r
+ repopulating after an\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by PopeRatzo ( 965947 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > Why would you advise people on natural sources of\r
+ > probiotics - in response to an article which said that\r
+ > they're either ineffectual or actually bad?\r
+ Because on the high probability that this new "study"\r
+ actually gets overturned by future research, I want people\r
+ to know they can eat delicious healthy food.\r
+ Remember when fats were bad? And coffee? And wine was good\r
+ for you? And eggs were bad for you? And low-fat diets were\r
+ good for losing weight?\r
+ And chocolate was bad for you? Do you need me to go on?\r
+ When\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Makes sense to me. (Score:5, Informative)\r
+ (by Vegan Cyclist ( 1650427 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Most probiotics are a pretty small range of bacteria, and I\r
+ don't know if I've ever seen anywhere that confirms these are\r
+ actually the ones we want on a large scale...especially when\r
+ some supplements have pretty large doses of these.\r
+ From all the reading I've done it seems the best direction will\r
+ be to focus on prebiotics, aka the foods that the microbiome\r
+ thrives on, which is typically fibrous vegetable matter. Feed\r
+ the good ones you've got (rather than trying to implant others),\r
+ and you'll probably be better off.\r
+\r
+ ** This study is done by morons (Score:2)\r
+ (by gurps_npc ( 621217 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ What idiot thinks that if you give pills of a specific biome you\r
+ will get something BESIDES that specific biome???? Look, if you\r
+ take probiotic pills, you are replacing your normal biome WITH\r
+ the biome of the pills.\r
+ That was the presumed GOAL of taking the pills. The fact that\r
+ your biome change is the thing you were trying to do, that's why\r
+ you take the pills.\r
+ If you have a blue car, and then paint it with red paint you are\r
+ an idiot if you complain that the car is no longer red.\r
+ There are lots of good reas\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by omnichad ( 1198475 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > Look, if you take probiotic pills, you are replacing your\r
+ > normal biome WITH the biome of the pills.\r
+ The study concluded the opposite (in all cases except with\r
+ antibiotic use). And the results are surprising. What it\r
+ sounds like is happening is that all of the bacteria in the\r
+ probiotic compete for food with the biofilm in your\r
+ intestines. However, the probiotic has no way to supplant the\r
+ biofilm - that's a protective layer that keeps out competing\r
+ bacteria. It just starves the resident population a little\r
+ bit as it passes on through. Either way, more or less none of\r
+ it stays behind and it all leaves t\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
--- /dev/null
+0Study Finds Probiotics 'Not As Beneficial For Gut Health As Previously Thought' (theguardian.com) null/SLASHDOT/0102641010 70\r
+i Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (BeauHD)\r
+i from the contrary-to-popular-belief dept.\r
+i\r
+i An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Guardian: The gut\r
+i microbiome is the sum total of all the micro-organisms living\r
+i in a person's gut, and has been shown to play a huge role in\r
+i human health. New research has found probiotics -- usually\r
+i taken as supplements or in foods such as yoghurt, kimchi or\r
+i kefir -- can hinder a patient's gut microbiome from returning\r
+i to normal after a course of antibiotics, and that different\r
+i people respond to probiotics in dramatically different ways.\r
+i In the first of two papers published in the journal Cell,\r
+i researchers performed endoscopies and colonoscopies to sample\r
+i and study the gut microbiomes of people who took antibiotics\r
+i before and after probiotic consumption. Another group were\r
+i given samples of their own gut microbiomes collected before\r
+i consuming antibiotics. The researchers found the microbiomes\r
+i of those who had taken the probiotics had suffered a "very\r
+i severe disturbance." "Once the probiotics had colonized the\r
+i gut, they completely inhibited the return of the indigenous\r
+i microbiome which was disrupted during antibiotic treatment,"\r
+i said Eran Elinav, an immunologist at the Weizmann Institute of\r
+i Science in Israel and lead author on the studies. The\r
+i scientists also compared the gut microbiomes of the gut\r
+i intestinal tract of 25 volunteers with that of their stools.\r
+i They found that stool bacteria only partially correlated with\r
+i the microbiomes functioning inside their bodies. "So the fact\r
+i that we all almost exclusively rely on stool in our microbiome\r
+i research may not be a reliable way of studying gut microbiome\r
+i health," said Elinav. In the second paper, the researchers\r
+i examined the colonization and impact of probiotics on 15\r
+i people by sampling within their gastrointestinal tract. They\r
+i divided the individuals into two groups: one were given a\r
+i preparation made of 11 strains of very commonly used\r
+i probiotics and the other were given a placebo. Of those who\r
+i were given probiotics, he said, "We could group the\r
+i individuals into two distinct groups: one which resisted the\r
+i colonisation of the probiotics, and one in which the\r
+i probiotics colonized the gut and modified the composition of\r
+i the gut microbiome and the genes of the host individual."\r
+i\r
--- /dev/null
+<!DOCTYPE html>
+<html>
+<head>
+ <meta http-equiv='content-type' content='text/html; charset=utf-8'>
+ <meta name='viewport' content='width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0'>
+ <style type='text/css'>
+ body { margin: 1em 15%; }
+ </style>
+</head>
+<body>
+<div class='story-header'>
+ <h1><a href='0102641010.html'>Study Finds Probiotics 'Not As Beneficial For Gut Health As Previously Thought' (theguardian.com)</a></h1>
+ <div class='details'>(Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (BeauHD)
+from the contrary-to-popular-belief dept.)</div>
+ <br/>
+ <div class='content' style='text-align: justify'>
+ An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Guardian: The gut microbiome is the sum total of all the micro-organisms living in a person's gut, and has been shown to play a huge role in human health. New research has found probiotics -- usually taken as supplements or in foods such as yoghurt, kimchi or kefir -- can hinder a patient's gut microbiome from returning to normal after a course of antibiotics, and that different people respond to probiotics in dramatically different ways. In the first of two papers published in the journal Cell, researchers performed endoscopies and colonoscopies to sample and study the gut microbiomes of people who took antibiotics before and after probiotic consumption. Another group were given samples of their own gut microbiomes collected before consuming antibiotics. The researchers found the microbiomes of those who had taken the probiotics had suffered a "very severe disturbance." "Once the probiotics had colonized the gut, they completely inhibited the return of the indigenous microbiome which was disrupted during antibiotic treatment," said Eran Elinav, an immunologist at the Weizmann Institute of Science in Israel and lead author on the studies. The scientists also compared the gut microbiomes of the gut intestinal tract of 25 volunteers with that of their stools. They found that stool bacteria only partially correlated with the microbiomes functioning inside their bodies. "So the fact that we all almost exclusively rely on stool in our microbiome research may not be a reliable way of studying gut microbiome health," said Elinav. In the second paper, the researchers examined the colonization and impact of probiotics on 15 people by sampling within their gastrointestinal tract. They divided the individuals into two groups: one were given a preparation made of 11 strains of very commonly used probiotics and the other were given a placebo. Of those who were given probiotics, he said, "We could group the individuals into two distinct groups: one which resisted the colonisation of the probiotics, and one in which the probiotics colonized the gut and modified the composition of the gut microbiome and the genes of the host individual."
+ </div>
+<hr/>
+</div>
+</body>
--- /dev/null
+<!DOCTYPE html>
+<html>
+<head>
+ <meta http-equiv='content-type' content='text/html; charset=utf-8'>
+ <meta name='viewport' content='width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0'>
+ <style type='text/css'>
+ body { margin: 1em 15%; }
+ </style>
+</head>
+<body>
+<div class='story'>
+ <h1>Study Finds Probiotics 'Not As Beneficial For Gut Health As Previously Thought' (theguardian.com)</h1>
+ <div class='details'>(Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (BeauHD)
+from the contrary-to-popular-belief dept.)</div>
+ <br/>
+ <ul>
+ <li>News link: <a href='https://science.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2153223/study-finds-probiotics-not-as-beneficial-for-gut-health-as-previously-thought'>https://science.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2153223/study-finds-probiotics-not-as-beneficial-for-gut-health-as-previously-thought</a></li>
+ <li>Source link: <a href='https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/sep/06/probiotics-not-as-beneficial-for-gut-health-as-previously-thought'>https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/sep/06/probiotics-not-as-beneficial-for-gut-health-as-previously-thought</a></li>
+ </ul>
+ <br/>
+ <div class='content' style='text-align: justify'>
+ An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Guardian: The gut microbiome is the sum total of all the micro-organisms living in a person's gut, and has been shown to play a huge role in human health. New research has found probiotics -- usually taken as supplements or in foods such as yoghurt, kimchi or kefir -- can hinder a patient's gut microbiome from returning to normal after a course of antibiotics, and that different people respond to probiotics in dramatically different ways. In the first of two papers published in the journal Cell, researchers performed endoscopies and colonoscopies to sample and study the gut microbiomes of people who took antibiotics before and after probiotic consumption. Another group were given samples of their own gut microbiomes collected before consuming antibiotics. The researchers found the microbiomes of those who had taken the probiotics had suffered a "very severe disturbance." "Once the probiotics had colonized the gut, they completely inhibited the return of the indigenous microbiome which was disrupted during antibiotic treatment," said Eran Elinav, an immunologist at the Weizmann Institute of Science in Israel and lead author on the studies. The scientists also compared the gut microbiomes of the gut intestinal tract of 25 volunteers with that of their stools. They found that stool bacteria only partially correlated with the microbiomes functioning inside their bodies. "So the fact that we all almost exclusively rely on stool in our microbiome research may not be a reliable way of studying gut microbiome health," said Elinav. In the second paper, the researchers examined the colonization and impact of probiotics on 15 people by sampling within their gastrointestinal tract. They divided the individuals into two groups: one were given a preparation made of 11 strains of very commonly used probiotics and the other were given a placebo. Of those who were given probiotics, he said, "We could group the individuals into two distinct groups: one which resisted the colonisation of the probiotics, and one in which the probiotics colonized the gut and modified the composition of the gut microbiome and the genes of the host individual."
+ </div>
+<hr/>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by jblues ( 1703158 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Bacteria are are naturally present in raw fruit and vegetables and naturally fermented foods, including naturally fermented bread. Most cold climate cultures relied on fermented vegetables to get them through the winter. Salt fermentation of raw vegetables allows the lactobacillus bacterias to proliferate. Almost all of the sugars are consumed, however most of the rest of nutritional profile is intact, including the vitamin C. In some cases the nutritional profile is enhanced. This is why viking sailors di</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Bitter sweet (Score:3, Informative)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Anonymous Coward</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Been saying this for years. I get some people have IBS but the reliance on things like yogurt is crazy.</p><p>Fun little tip for a stomach ache - saliva. Let it build in your mouth (without water) and swallow in one gulp. Not only does it give your mouth a natural way to break down any bateria / sugar, but helps to calm your gut. Mouthwash is the nuclear option.</p><p>So much of how your body functions comes down to diet. It's interesting they do not go into what foods were consumed.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2></h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'></div>
+ <div class='comment_content'></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by omnichad ( 1198475 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>The "S" stands for syndrome, which identifies it as a collection of symptoms and not a disease. It's a diagnosis only in that there are good ways to treat the symptoms even when you don't understand the root cause fully.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>I guess it's back to (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by bobstreo ( 1320787 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>shit transplants for the health crazed. /s</p><p>Seriously, is anything really good or really bad for you in moderation?</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Don't take probiotic pills (Score:5, Insightful)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by PopeRatzo ( 965947 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Don't waste your money on probiotic capsules. If you want to try to increase the amount or variety of bacteria in your guts, there are tons of delicious foods that are chock full of probiotics. Olives, pickles, fermented meats like the Italian delicacy soprasetta (which might be the tastiest thing ever invented by humans). Kimchi is also good, but it will make you smell bad, so if you're single, you might want to go easy on the kimchi.</p><p>Also, if you use vinegar on salads, try getting some of that good cider vinegar that still has the "mother" in it. Shake the bottle and use like any other vinegar. And of course, yogurt, kefir, that kind of stuff is delicious too.</p><p>I'm not crazy about kombucha. It's a big fad now and there are places here in California that have kombucha on tap, but it's not really to my taste. Some people swear by it. I notice that now when you buy it in the store, they ask for an ID since there's a small amount of alcohol in it.</p><p>Also, alcohol is not really good for your gut bacteria, but there are more important things in life than gut bacteria, you know? Just eat a lot of different kinds of food and you'll end up with good gut bacteria without even trying.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: Don't take probiotic pills (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by ljw1004 ( 764174 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Why would you advise people on natural sources of probiotics - in response to an article which said that they're either ineffectual or actually bad?</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by omnichad ( 1198475 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>They likely contain a lot more biodiversity vs. a monoculture or handful of strains in probiotic supplements. And they would still probably be ineffectual most of the time, except after antibiotic use. This study doesn't cover any of that. Of course if you're trying to feed the microbiome you already have, eating unfermented vegetables makes more sense as they still have the complex sugars like oligosaccharides, fructans and so on that would feed it. That depends on whether you are repopulating after an</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by PopeRatzo ( 965947 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> Why would you advise people on natural sources of probiotics - in response to an article which said that they're either ineffectual or actually bad?</p><p>Because on the high probability that this new "study" actually gets overturned by future research, I want people to know they can eat delicious healthy food.</p><p>Remember when fats were bad? And coffee? And wine was good for you? And eggs were bad for you? And low-fat diets were good for losing weight?</p><p>And chocolate was bad for you? Do you need me to go on? When</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Makes sense to me. (Score:5, Informative)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Vegan Cyclist ( 1650427 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Most probiotics are a pretty small range of bacteria, and I don't know if I've ever seen anywhere that confirms these are actually the ones we want on a large scale...especially when some supplements have pretty large doses of these.</p><p>From all the reading I've done it seems the best direction will be to focus on prebiotics, aka the foods that the microbiome thrives on, which is typically fibrous vegetable matter. Feed the good ones you've got (rather than trying to implant others), and you'll probably be better off.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>This study is done by morons (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by gurps_npc ( 621217 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>What idiot thinks that if you give pills of a specific biome you will get something BESIDES that specific biome???? Look, if you take probiotic pills, you are replacing your normal biome WITH the biome of the pills.</p><p>That was the presumed GOAL of taking the pills. The fact that your biome change is the thing you were trying to do, that's why you take the pills.</p><p>If you have a blue car, and then paint it with red paint you are an idiot if you complain that the car is no longer red.</p><p>There are lots of good reas</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by omnichad ( 1198475 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> Look, if you take probiotic pills, you are replacing your normal biome WITH the biome of the pills.</p><p>The study concluded the opposite (in all cases except with antibiotic use). And the results are surprising. What it sounds like is happening is that all of the bacteria in the probiotic compete for food with the biofilm in your intestines. However, the probiotic has no way to supplant the biofilm - that's a protective layer that keeps out competing bacteria. It just starves the resident population a little bit as it passes on through. Either way, more or less none of it stays behind and it all leaves t</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+</div>
+</body>
--- /dev/null
+ ICELANDERS SEEK TO KEEP REMOTE NORDIC PENINSULA DIGITAL-FREE \r
+ (APNEWS.COM) \r
+\r
+ Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (BeauHD)\r
+ from the no-cellphones-allowed dept.\r
+\r
+ o News link: https://mobile.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/235254/icelanders-seek-to-keep-remote-nordic-peninsula-digital-free\r
+ o Source link: https://www.apnews.com/71cdfb7b1c2245069a6f681f8b8f906f/Wired-Icelanders-seek-to-keep-remote-peninsula-digital-free\r
+\r
+\r
+ Hikers, park rangers, and summer residents of Iceland's\r
+ northernmost peninsula are seeking to keep the area free from\r
+ internet service, worrying that all that comes with it "will\r
+ destroy a way of life that depends on the absence of [email,\r
+ news, and social media]," reports the Associated Press. "The\r
+ area has long resisted cell towers, but commercial initiatives\r
+ could take the decision out of Icelanders' hands and push\r
+ Hornstrandir across the digital divide." From the report:\r
+ Despite or because of its remoteness, Iceland ranks first on a\r
+ U.N. index comparing nations by information technology use,\r
+ with roughly 98 percent of the population using the internet.\r
+ Among adults, 93 percent report having Facebook accounts and\r
+ two-thirds are Snapchat users, according to pollster MMR. Many\r
+ people who live in northwestern Iceland or visit as outdoor\r
+ enthusiasts want Hornstrandir's 570 square kilometers (220\r
+ square miles), which accounts for 0.6 percent of Iceland's\r
+ land mass, to be declared a "digital-free zone." The idea\r
+ hasn't coalesced into a petition or formal campaign, so what\r
+ it would require or prohibit hasn't been fleshed out. The last\r
+ full-time resident of the rugged area moved away in 1952 -- it\r
+ never was an easy place to farm -- but many descendants have\r
+ turned family farmsteads into summer getaways. Northwest\r
+ Iceland's representative, Halla Signy Kristjansdottir, is in\r
+ favor of adding cell towers for the safety of sailors and\r
+ travelers in the area. "I don't see anything romantic about\r
+ lying on the ground with a broken thigh bone and no cellphone\r
+ signal," Kristjansdottir said in an interview.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Yeah it's real annoying (Score:3, Insightful)\r
+ (by Crashmarik ( 635988 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ You're out in the wilderness and somebody's WiFi is screwing up\r
+ the colors of the forest and making everything look strange,\r
+ while the cell towers are driving the wildlife nuts. / sarcasm\r
+ I'd love to hear these people justify how this in anyway\r
+ diminishes them.\r
+\r
+ ** Because people no longer have self discipline? (Score:3)\r
+ (by thesupraman ( 179040 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Because they CAN get Farcebook, I guess they Must get\r
+ Farcebook.\r
+ I mean, you would think they could just choose to turn off\r
+ their devices, not bring a charger, whatever.\r
+ Although knowing people from such areas, I suspect it is more\r
+ about giving one big finger to 'thems city folks' (even if\r
+ most of these people live in the cit\y most of the time).\r
+ Anyway, good on them for caring, but good luck in keeping\r
+ such things out. The safety point is also quite valid.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3, Interesting)\r
+ (by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > I mean, you would think they could just choose to turn off\r
+ > their devices\r
+ They don't want to just stop using Facebook, they want\r
+ their NEIGHBORS to stop using it too.\r
+ This isn't about self-control. It is about controlling\r
+ others, which is a near universal human desire.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3)\r
+ (by e3m4n ( 947977 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ exactly. I just posted a more descriptive explanation of\r
+ that very thing a thread above this one. Sometimes it's\r
+ easier to buy a vacation that makes the choice for you,\r
+ than having to, repeatedly, make the same choice\r
+ throughout the entire vacation. Picking a destination that\r
+ has no access means you can re-focus on other forms of\r
+ entertainment. Its easy to fall back into habits. By\r
+ picking a spot with no access, you are not fighting\r
+ temptation, and i dare say withdrawal, the entire time.\r
+ The price of vacati\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re:Yeah it's real annoying (Score:5, Informative)\r
+ (by Rei ( 128717 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Forest? *snicker*. Here's the joke everyone over the age of 8\r
+ here knows:\r
+ Q: What do you do if you get lost in an Icelandic forest?\r
+ A: Stand up.\r
+ I've actually not been to Hornstrandir; it's been on my TODO\r
+ list for a long, long time, but I've lacked one of the\r
+ obligatory "round tuits". So it's actually surprising to hear\r
+ that there's not internet access (via cell towers) there,\r
+ because in general even the most remote places here have cell\r
+ access. When Bárðarbunga erupted, deep in the highlands, the\r
+ eruption was livestreamed. And there's a lot more people in\r
+ Vestfirðir then in the highlands!\r
+ This would of course be more about visitors than residents,\r
+ given that there's no permanent residents in Hornstrandir.\r
+ And in some ways I can sympathize. For example, there's\r
+ always a lot of opposition to improving the highland roads\r
+ because we don't want to have more cars driving through and\r
+ tons of people flooding in, and driving really fast on some\r
+ paved road would totally change the experience of going into\r
+ the highlands... it would just turn into a set of "sites to\r
+ see" rather than a journey. The effect of the isolation on\r
+ you can really be profound. You feel like a person exploring\r
+ Mars - so tiny in an endless empty expanse, completely devoid\r
+ of any signs of human civilization except the\r
+ half-bulldozed-out "road" you take, the endless travel\r
+ punctured by rushes of adrenaline as you try to ford a river\r
+ or trying to avoid ruining your car crossing a lava field.\r
+ And people who know that experience generally don't want to\r
+ see it altered. So I imagine it's the same thing for\r
+ Hornstrandir. The difference being, as previously mentioned,\r
+ in much of the highlands there's cell coverage. At least as\r
+ far as I know, when I go out I'm not checking Facebook all\r
+ the time. ;) But I don't recall any meaningful loss of\r
+ coverage events.\r
+ ED: Just checked [1]a map [wp.com] from my cell provider.\r
+ Looks like most of Hornstrandir is indeed marked in white (no\r
+ coverage), while most of the highlands is light blue (2G) or\r
+ in some places blue (3G) - even a good chunk of Vatnajökull\r
+ (largest glacier in Europe).\r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ [1]\r
+ https://i2.wp.com/www.icelandnorthernlightshq.com/wp-content/-\r
+ uploads/2015/06/Screen-Shot-2015-06-27-at-09.57.16.png?ssl=1\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3)\r
+ (by e3m4n ( 947977 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Actually this intrigues me. I go on cruises for the same\r
+ getaway. Sure one can declare a weekend of no devices or\r
+ technology, but theres always something that comes up that\r
+ eventually screws that up. I go on cruises with the family\r
+ and we do not buy the internet package. The fact that its\r
+ ridiculously expensive helps 'cut the cord' when on vacation.\r
+ The most online time the kids ever experience is when we pull\r
+ into a port and visit a place that has 'free wifi'; giving\r
+ them 30-60 min of checking their email\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3)\r
+ (by GumphMaster ( 772693 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > You're out in the wilderness and somebody's ...\r
+ bloody mobile phone is playing something loosely called\r
+ "music" over the shittiest, tinny piezoelectric "speaker" you\r
+ ever heard. I have personally experienced this scenario while\r
+ walking the Milford Track (NZ) and in Torres del Payne\r
+ (Chile). I can only imagine how much worse it would be _with_\r
+ coverage: Youtube videos turned up to 11, incessant need to\r
+ share the latest "news" from home, inattentive walking in\r
+ dangerous places etc. If your region's livelihood depends on\r
+ people coming to experience wil\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Satellite Internet (Score:2)\r
+ (by crow ( 16139 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ We may only be a few years away from Starlink or something\r
+ similar providing practical high-bandwidth Internet service\r
+ globally. So they may hold back the tide a bit longer, but the\r
+ reality is that modern communications will become a fact of life\r
+ everywhere for anyone that wants it. Yes, that will mean some\r
+ significant changes to the lifestyles of the people living\r
+ there, and yes, it won't all be for the better, but I don't see\r
+ the point of fighting it now.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by rossdee ( 243626 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ How far north are we talking about? Satellite coverage is\r
+ always going to be a problem at the poles\r
+\r
+ ** Re:Satellite Internet (Score:4, Informative)\r
+ (by quenda ( 644621 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > Satellite coverage is always going to be a problem at the\r
+ > poles\r
+ No, that applies to geosynchronous broadcast satellites,\r
+ but not to LEO constellations such as Starlink or\r
+ Irridium.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3)\r
+ (by crow ( 16139 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Good point. A quick look at Google Maps suggests around 66\r
+ degrees north. I'm not the best a geography, and I had\r
+ thought Iceland was a bit further south. I didn't realize\r
+ it was north of the southern tip of Greenland. That could\r
+ well be outside the range of satellite Internet, depending\r
+ on the orbits involved. I have no idea what the plans are.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3)\r
+ (by Mashiki ( 184564 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Seem to remember there was active satellite links in\r
+ Resolute, Nvt.(74deg/N), so I don't think that's a\r
+ problem. The real problem was the astronomical cost of\r
+ those links, short of a stationary polar orbit\r
+ satellite there is no real way to keep it cheap. So\r
+ they've been building fiber as a replacement since\r
+ 2012ish for the far north remote communities at least\r
+ here in Canada. I think Resolute was finished in\r
+ 2016ish or so.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Fuck yes. (Score:3)\r
+ (by DogDude ( 805747 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Fuck yes, I fucking love Icelanders. I'm so sick of seeing\r
+ smartphone zombies everywhere. The addicts and the stupid will\r
+ be addicted and stupid anywhere there's an Internet connection.\r
+ What a wonderful, thoughtful, human decision to make. Wonderful\r
+ idea.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by Gojira Shipi-Taro ( 465802 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ I don't see it as thoughtful or "human" at all. Simply\r
+ reactionary.\r
+ As long as EVERYONE in that area agrees, fine.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** safety, use a friggin' PLB (Score:1)\r
+ (by Anonymous Coward)\r
+\r
+ \r
+ I spend a lot of time in the woods of British Columbia, Canada.\r
+ There is no celphone coverage in probably 95% of our\r
+ woods/wilderness. I don't ask for cel towers, I carry a Personal\r
+ Locator Beacon (PLB) for safety. If it is that important to\r
+ someone to be connected, let them use satellite. We don't need\r
+ more cel coverage for narcisists.\r
+\r
+\r
--- /dev/null
+0Icelanders Seek To Keep Remote Nordic Peninsula Digital-Free (apnews.com) null/SLASHDOT/0102641672 70\r
+i Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (BeauHD)\r
+i from the no-cellphones-allowed dept.\r
+i\r
+i Hikers, park rangers, and summer residents of Iceland's\r
+i northernmost peninsula are seeking to keep the area free from\r
+i internet service, worrying that all that comes with it "will\r
+i destroy a way of life that depends on the absence of [email,\r
+i news, and social media]," reports the Associated Press. "The\r
+i area has long resisted cell towers, but commercial initiatives\r
+i could take the decision out of Icelanders' hands and push\r
+i Hornstrandir across the digital divide." From the report:\r
+i Despite or because of its remoteness, Iceland ranks first on a\r
+i U.N. index comparing nations by information technology use,\r
+i with roughly 98 percent of the population using the internet.\r
+i Among adults, 93 percent report having Facebook accounts and\r
+i two-thirds are Snapchat users, according to pollster MMR. Many\r
+i people who live in northwestern Iceland or visit as outdoor\r
+i enthusiasts want Hornstrandir's 570 square kilometers (220\r
+i square miles), which accounts for 0.6 percent of Iceland's\r
+i land mass, to be declared a "digital-free zone." The idea\r
+i hasn't coalesced into a petition or formal campaign, so what\r
+i it would require or prohibit hasn't been fleshed out. The last\r
+i full-time resident of the rugged area moved away in 1952 -- it\r
+i never was an easy place to farm -- but many descendants have\r
+i turned family farmsteads into summer getaways. Northwest\r
+i Iceland's representative, Halla Signy Kristjansdottir, is in\r
+i favor of adding cell towers for the safety of sailors and\r
+i travelers in the area. "I don't see anything romantic about\r
+i lying on the ground with a broken thigh bone and no cellphone\r
+i signal," Kristjansdottir said in an interview.\r
+i\r
--- /dev/null
+<!DOCTYPE html>
+<html>
+<head>
+ <meta http-equiv='content-type' content='text/html; charset=utf-8'>
+ <meta name='viewport' content='width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0'>
+ <style type='text/css'>
+ body { margin: 1em 15%; }
+ </style>
+</head>
+<body>
+<div class='story-header'>
+ <h1><a href='0102641672.html'>Icelanders Seek To Keep Remote Nordic Peninsula Digital-Free (apnews.com)</a></h1>
+ <div class='details'>(Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (BeauHD)
+from the no-cellphones-allowed dept.)</div>
+ <br/>
+ <div class='content' style='text-align: justify'>
+ Hikers, park rangers, and summer residents of Iceland's northernmost peninsula are seeking to keep the area free from internet service, worrying that all that comes with it "will destroy a way of life that depends on the absence of [email, news, and social media]," reports the Associated Press. "The area has long resisted cell towers, but commercial initiatives could take the decision out of Icelanders' hands and push Hornstrandir across the digital divide." From the report: Despite or because of its remoteness, Iceland ranks first on a U.N. index comparing nations by information technology use, with roughly 98 percent of the population using the internet. Among adults, 93 percent report having Facebook accounts and two-thirds are Snapchat users, according to pollster MMR. Many people who live in northwestern Iceland or visit as outdoor enthusiasts want Hornstrandir's 570 square kilometers (220 square miles), which accounts for 0.6 percent of Iceland's land mass, to be declared a "digital-free zone." The idea hasn't coalesced into a petition or formal campaign, so what it would require or prohibit hasn't been fleshed out. The last full-time resident of the rugged area moved away in 1952 -- it never was an easy place to farm -- but many descendants have turned family farmsteads into summer getaways. Northwest Iceland's representative, Halla Signy Kristjansdottir, is in favor of adding cell towers for the safety of sailors and travelers in the area. "I don't see anything romantic about lying on the ground with a broken thigh bone and no cellphone signal," Kristjansdottir said in an interview.
+ </div>
+<hr/>
+</div>
+</body>
--- /dev/null
+<!DOCTYPE html>
+<html>
+<head>
+ <meta http-equiv='content-type' content='text/html; charset=utf-8'>
+ <meta name='viewport' content='width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0'>
+ <style type='text/css'>
+ body { margin: 1em 15%; }
+ </style>
+</head>
+<body>
+<div class='story'>
+ <h1>Icelanders Seek To Keep Remote Nordic Peninsula Digital-Free (apnews.com)</h1>
+ <div class='details'>(Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (BeauHD)
+from the no-cellphones-allowed dept.)</div>
+ <br/>
+ <ul>
+ <li>News link: <a href='https://mobile.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/235254/icelanders-seek-to-keep-remote-nordic-peninsula-digital-free'>https://mobile.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/235254/icelanders-seek-to-keep-remote-nordic-peninsula-digital-free</a></li>
+ <li>Source link: <a href='https://www.apnews.com/71cdfb7b1c2245069a6f681f8b8f906f/Wired-Icelanders-seek-to-keep-remote-peninsula-digital-free'>https://www.apnews.com/71cdfb7b1c2245069a6f681f8b8f906f/Wired-Icelanders-seek-to-keep-remote-peninsula-digital-free</a></li>
+ </ul>
+ <br/>
+ <div class='content' style='text-align: justify'>
+ Hikers, park rangers, and summer residents of Iceland's northernmost peninsula are seeking to keep the area free from internet service, worrying that all that comes with it "will destroy a way of life that depends on the absence of [email, news, and social media]," reports the Associated Press. "The area has long resisted cell towers, but commercial initiatives could take the decision out of Icelanders' hands and push Hornstrandir across the digital divide." From the report: Despite or because of its remoteness, Iceland ranks first on a U.N. index comparing nations by information technology use, with roughly 98 percent of the population using the internet. Among adults, 93 percent report having Facebook accounts and two-thirds are Snapchat users, according to pollster MMR. Many people who live in northwestern Iceland or visit as outdoor enthusiasts want Hornstrandir's 570 square kilometers (220 square miles), which accounts for 0.6 percent of Iceland's land mass, to be declared a "digital-free zone." The idea hasn't coalesced into a petition or formal campaign, so what it would require or prohibit hasn't been fleshed out. The last full-time resident of the rugged area moved away in 1952 -- it never was an easy place to farm -- but many descendants have turned family farmsteads into summer getaways. Northwest Iceland's representative, Halla Signy Kristjansdottir, is in favor of adding cell towers for the safety of sailors and travelers in the area. "I don't see anything romantic about lying on the ground with a broken thigh bone and no cellphone signal," Kristjansdottir said in an interview.
+ </div>
+<hr/>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Yeah it's real annoying (Score:3, Insightful)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Crashmarik ( 635988 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>You're out in the wilderness and somebody's WiFi is screwing up the colors of the forest and making everything look strange, while the cell towers are driving the wildlife nuts. / sarcasm</p><p>I'd love to hear these people justify how this in anyway diminishes them.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Because people no longer have self discipline? (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by thesupraman ( 179040 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Because they CAN get Farcebook, I guess they Must get Farcebook.</p><p>I mean, you would think they could just choose to turn off their devices, not bring a charger, whatever.</p><p>Although knowing people from such areas, I suspect it is more about giving one big finger to 'thems city folks' (even if most of these people live in the cit\y most of the time).</p><p>Anyway, good on them for caring, but good luck in keeping such things out. The safety point is also quite valid.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:3, Interesting)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> I mean, you would think they could just choose to turn off their devices</p><p>They don't want to just stop using Facebook, they want their NEIGHBORS to stop using it too.</p><p>This isn't about self-control. It is about controlling others, which is a near universal human desire.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by e3m4n ( 947977 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>exactly. I just posted a more descriptive explanation of that very thing a thread above this one. Sometimes it's easier to buy a vacation that makes the choice for you, than having to, repeatedly, make the same choice throughout the entire vacation. Picking a destination that has no access means you can re-focus on other forms of entertainment. Its easy to fall back into habits. By picking a spot with no access, you are not fighting temptation, and i dare say withdrawal, the entire time. The price of vacati</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re:Yeah it's real annoying (Score:5, Informative)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Rei ( 128717 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Forest? *snicker*. Here's the joke everyone over the age of 8 here knows:</p><p>Q: What do you do if you get lost in an Icelandic forest?</p><p>A: Stand up.</p><p>I've actually not been to Hornstrandir; it's been on my TODO list for a long, long time, but I've lacked one of the obligatory "round tuits". So it's actually surprising to hear that there's not internet access (via cell towers) there, because in general even the most remote places here have cell access. When Bárðarbunga erupted, deep in the highlands, the eruption was livestreamed. And there's a lot more people in Vestfirðir then in the highlands!</p><p>This would of course be more about visitors than residents, given that there's no permanent residents in Hornstrandir. And in some ways I can sympathize. For example, there's always a lot of opposition to improving the highland roads because we don't want to have more cars driving through and tons of people flooding in, and driving really fast on some paved road would totally change the experience of going into the highlands... it would just turn into a set of "sites to see" rather than a journey. The effect of the isolation on you can really be profound. You feel like a person exploring Mars - so tiny in an endless empty expanse, completely devoid of any signs of human civilization except the half-bulldozed-out "road" you take, the endless travel punctured by rushes of adrenaline as you try to ford a river or trying to avoid ruining your car crossing a lava field. And people who know that experience generally don't want to see it altered. So I imagine it's the same thing for Hornstrandir. The difference being, as previously mentioned, in much of the highlands there's cell coverage. At least as far as I know, when I go out I'm not checking Facebook all the time. ;) But I don't recall any meaningful loss of coverage events.</p><p>ED: Just checked [1]a map [wp.com] from my cell provider. Looks like most of Hornstrandir is indeed marked in white (no coverage), while most of the highlands is light blue (2G) or in some places blue (3G) - even a good chunk of Vatnajökull (largest glacier in Europe).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>[1] https://i2.wp.com/www.icelandnorthernlightshq.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Screen-Shot-2015-06-27-at-09.57.16.png?ssl=1</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by e3m4n ( 947977 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Actually this intrigues me. I go on cruises for the same getaway. Sure one can declare a weekend of no devices or technology, but theres always something that comes up that eventually screws that up. I go on cruises with the family and we do not buy the internet package. The fact that its ridiculously expensive helps 'cut the cord' when on vacation. The most online time the kids ever experience is when we pull into a port and visit a place that has 'free wifi'; giving them 30-60 min of checking their email</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by GumphMaster ( 772693 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> You're out in the wilderness and somebody's ...</p><p>bloody mobile phone is playing something loosely called "music" over the shittiest, tinny piezoelectric "speaker" you ever heard. I have personally experienced this scenario while walking the Milford Track (NZ) and in Torres del Payne (Chile). I can only imagine how much worse it would be _with_ coverage: Youtube videos turned up to 11, incessant need to share the latest "news" from home, inattentive walking in dangerous places etc. If your region's livelihood depends on people coming to experience wil</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Satellite Internet (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by crow ( 16139 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>We may only be a few years away from Starlink or something similar providing practical high-bandwidth Internet service globally. So they may hold back the tide a bit longer, but the reality is that modern communications will become a fact of life everywhere for anyone that wants it. Yes, that will mean some significant changes to the lifestyles of the people living there, and yes, it won't all be for the better, but I don't see the point of fighting it now.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by rossdee ( 243626 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>How far north are we talking about? Satellite coverage is always going to be a problem at the poles</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re:Satellite Internet (Score:4, Informative)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by quenda ( 644621 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>> Satellite coverage is always going to be a problem at the poles</p><p>No, that applies to geosynchronous broadcast satellites, but not to LEO constellations such as Starlink or Irridium.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by crow ( 16139 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Good point. A quick look at Google Maps suggests around 66 degrees north. I'm not the best a geography, and I had thought Iceland was a bit further south. I didn't realize it was north of the southern tip of Greenland. That could well be outside the range of satellite Internet, depending on the orbits involved. I have no idea what the plans are.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Mashiki ( 184564 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Seem to remember there was active satellite links in Resolute, Nvt.(74deg/N), so I don't think that's a problem. The real problem was the astronomical cost of those links, short of a stationary polar orbit satellite there is no real way to keep it cheap. So they've been building fiber as a replacement since 2012ish for the far north remote communities at least here in Canada. I think Resolute was finished in 2016ish or so.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Fuck yes. (Score:3)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by DogDude ( 805747 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Fuck yes, I fucking love Icelanders. I'm so sick of seeing smartphone zombies everywhere. The addicts and the stupid will be addicted and stupid anywhere there's an Internet connection. What a wonderful, thoughtful, human decision to make. Wonderful idea.</p></div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Re: (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Gojira Shipi-Taro ( 465802 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>I don't see it as thoughtful or "human" at all. Simply reactionary.</p><p>As long as EVERYONE in that area agrees, fine.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>safety, use a friggin' PLB (Score:1)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Anonymous Coward</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>I spend a lot of time in the woods of British Columbia, Canada. There is no celphone coverage in probably 95% of our woods/wilderness. I don't ask for cel towers, I carry a Personal Locator Beacon (PLB) for safety. If it is that important to someone to be connected, let them use satellite. We don't need more cel coverage for narcisists.</p></div>
+ </div>
+</div>
+</body>
--- /dev/null
+ 380,000 CARD PAYMENTS COMPROMISED IN BRITISH AIRWAYS BREACH \r
+ (SKY.COM) \r
+\r
+ Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (BeauHD)\r
+ from the sorry-not-sorry dept.\r
+\r
+ o News link: https://it.slashdot.org/story/18/09/07/0247228/380000-card-payments-compromised-in-british-airways-breach\r
+ o Source link: https://news.sky.com/story/ba-calls-in-police-over-customer-data-theft-from-website-11491980\r
+\r
+\r
+ Earlier today, British Airways said credit card information of\r
+ at least 380,000 customers have been "compromised" in a data\r
+ breach that occurred between August 21 and September 5. The\r
+ information stolen includes customer names, email addresses,\r
+ home addresses and payment card information -- but not travel\r
+ or passport details. Sky News reports: In an email to affected\r
+ customers, BA said: "We're deeply sorry, but you may have been\r
+ affected. We recommend that you contact your bank or credit\r
+ card provider and follow their recommended advice. We take the\r
+ protection of your personal information very seriously. Please\r
+ accept our deepest apologies for the worry and inconvenience\r
+ that this criminal activity has caused." The breach has been\r
+ "resolved" and the website is "working normally," it said. In\r
+ a statement, the airline added: "We have notified the police\r
+ and relevant authorities... [and] will continue to keep our\r
+ customers updated with the very latest information. We will be\r
+ contacting customers and will manage any claims on an\r
+ individual basis."\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** when not if (Score:2)\r
+ (by johnsnails ( 1715452 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ when not if\r
+\r
+ ** And that should be really expensive for them (Score:5,\r
+ Insightful)\r
+ (by gweihir ( 88907 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Say, $100 per customer, payable to the customer for their\r
+ hassle. But likely this will not cost them a thing. So it will\r
+ happen again and again and again.\r
+\r
+ ** For 380,000 ... (Score:2)\r
+ (by CaptainDork ( 3678879 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ ... years, the universe was in an expanding opaque plasma state\r
+ so dense that photons could not travel very far.\r
+ Coincidence?\r
+ Yes, I'm sure of it.\r
+\r
+ ** What else is new. (Score:2)\r
+ (by Hallux-F-Sinister ( 5127197 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ -Sigh-.\r
+ This is why we can’t have nice things.\r
+\r
+ ** Not enough (Score:2)\r
+ (by hcs_$reboot ( 1536101 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ "We take the protection of your personal information very\r
+ seriously" Almost insulting to put that in the email sent to\r
+ affected clients.\r
+\r
+\r
--- /dev/null
+0380,000 Card Payments Compromised In British Airways Breach (sky.com) null/SLASHDOT/0102643378 70\r
+i Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (BeauHD)\r
+i from the sorry-not-sorry dept.\r
+i\r
+i Earlier today, British Airways said credit card information of\r
+i at least 380,000 customers have been "compromised" in a data\r
+i breach that occurred between August 21 and September 5. The\r
+i information stolen includes customer names, email addresses,\r
+i home addresses and payment card information -- but not travel\r
+i or passport details. Sky News reports: In an email to affected\r
+i customers, BA said: "We're deeply sorry, but you may have been\r
+i affected. We recommend that you contact your bank or credit\r
+i card provider and follow their recommended advice. We take the\r
+i protection of your personal information very seriously. Please\r
+i accept our deepest apologies for the worry and inconvenience\r
+i that this criminal activity has caused." The breach has been\r
+i "resolved" and the website is "working normally," it said. In\r
+i a statement, the airline added: "We have notified the police\r
+i and relevant authorities... [and] will continue to keep our\r
+i customers updated with the very latest information. We will be\r
+i contacting customers and will manage any claims on an\r
+i individual basis."\r
+i\r
--- /dev/null
+<!DOCTYPE html>
+<html>
+<head>
+ <meta http-equiv='content-type' content='text/html; charset=utf-8'>
+ <meta name='viewport' content='width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0'>
+ <style type='text/css'>
+ body { margin: 1em 15%; }
+ </style>
+</head>
+<body>
+<div class='story-header'>
+ <h1><a href='0102643378.html'>380,000 Card Payments Compromised In British Airways Breach (sky.com)</a></h1>
+ <div class='details'>(Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (BeauHD)
+from the sorry-not-sorry dept.)</div>
+ <br/>
+ <div class='content' style='text-align: justify'>
+ Earlier today, British Airways said credit card information of at least 380,000 customers have been "compromised" in a data breach that occurred between August 21 and September 5. The information stolen includes customer names, email addresses, home addresses and payment card information -- but not travel or passport details. Sky News reports: In an email to affected customers, BA said: "We're deeply sorry, but you may have been affected. We recommend that you contact your bank or credit card provider and follow their recommended advice. We take the protection of your personal information very seriously. Please accept our deepest apologies for the worry and inconvenience that this criminal activity has caused." The breach has been "resolved" and the website is "working normally," it said. In a statement, the airline added: "We have notified the police and relevant authorities... [and] will continue to keep our customers updated with the very latest information. We will be contacting customers and will manage any claims on an individual basis."
+ </div>
+<hr/>
+</div>
+</body>
--- /dev/null
+<!DOCTYPE html>
+<html>
+<head>
+ <meta http-equiv='content-type' content='text/html; charset=utf-8'>
+ <meta name='viewport' content='width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0'>
+ <style type='text/css'>
+ body { margin: 1em 15%; }
+ </style>
+</head>
+<body>
+<div class='story'>
+ <h1>380,000 Card Payments Compromised In British Airways Breach (sky.com)</h1>
+ <div class='details'>(Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (BeauHD)
+from the sorry-not-sorry dept.)</div>
+ <br/>
+ <ul>
+ <li>News link: <a href='https://it.slashdot.org/story/18/09/07/0247228/380000-card-payments-compromised-in-british-airways-breach'>https://it.slashdot.org/story/18/09/07/0247228/380000-card-payments-compromised-in-british-airways-breach</a></li>
+ <li>Source link: <a href='https://news.sky.com/story/ba-calls-in-police-over-customer-data-theft-from-website-11491980'>https://news.sky.com/story/ba-calls-in-police-over-customer-data-theft-from-website-11491980</a></li>
+ </ul>
+ <br/>
+ <div class='content' style='text-align: justify'>
+ Earlier today, British Airways said credit card information of at least 380,000 customers have been "compromised" in a data breach that occurred between August 21 and September 5. The information stolen includes customer names, email addresses, home addresses and payment card information -- but not travel or passport details. Sky News reports: In an email to affected customers, BA said: "We're deeply sorry, but you may have been affected. We recommend that you contact your bank or credit card provider and follow their recommended advice. We take the protection of your personal information very seriously. Please accept our deepest apologies for the worry and inconvenience that this criminal activity has caused." The breach has been "resolved" and the website is "working normally," it said. In a statement, the airline added: "We have notified the police and relevant authorities... [and] will continue to keep our customers updated with the very latest information. We will be contacting customers and will manage any claims on an individual basis."
+ </div>
+<hr/>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>when not if (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by johnsnails ( 1715452 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>when not if</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>And that should be really expensive for them (Score:5, Insightful)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by gweihir ( 88907 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>Say, $100 per customer, payable to the customer for their hassle. But likely this will not cost them a thing. So it will happen again and again and again.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>For 380,000 ... (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by CaptainDork ( 3678879 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>... years, the universe was in an expanding opaque plasma state so dense that photons could not travel very far.</p><p>Coincidence?</p><p>Yes, I'm sure of it.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>What else is new. (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by Hallux-F-Sinister ( 5127197 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>-Sigh-.</p><p>This is why we can’t have nice things.</p></div>
+ </div>
+ <div class='comment' style='display: block; margin-left: 80px'>
+ <h2>Not enough (Score:2)</h2>
+ <div class='by' style='font-style: italic;'>by hcs_$reboot ( 1536101 )</div>
+ <div class='comment_content'><p></p><p>"We take the protection of your personal information very seriously" Almost insulting to put that in the email sent to affected clients.</p></div>
+ </div>
+</div>
+</body>
--- /dev/null
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+ <a href="//slashdot.org"><span>Slashdot</span></a>
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+ <a href="//slashdot.org/my/newuser" ><i class="icon-user-add"></i><span> Sign up</span></a>
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+ <div class="nav-secondary-wrap">
+ <nav class="nav-secondary" role="secondary-navigation">
+ <ul>
+ <li class="nav-label">Topics: </li>
+ <li><a href="//devices.slashdot.org">Devices</a></li>
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+ <li><a href="//entertainment.slashdot.org">Entertainment</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//technology.slashdot.org">Technology</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org/?fhfilter=opensource">Open Source</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//science.slashdot.org">Science</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//yro.slashdot.org">YRO</a></li>
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+</nav>
+<nav class="nav-social" role="social navigation">
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+ <li class="nav-label">Follow us:</li>
+ <li><a href="http://rss.slashdot.org/Slashdot/slashdotMain" target="_blank"><i class="icon-rss-squared"></i><span class="sr-only">RSS</span></a></li>
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+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org/newsletter" target="_blank"><i class="icon-mail-squared"></i><span class="sr-only">Newsletter</span></a></li>
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+</nav>
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+ <section>
+
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+ <span class="icon-quote-left"></span>
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+
+
+ Follow <a href="//slashdot.org/blog">Slashdot blog</a> updates by <a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/SlashdotSitenews">subscribing to our blog RSS feed</a>
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+ <a class="ico close" onclick="hide_login_slider();" href=""><span>Close</span></a>
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+ var $target=$(original_target(e, selector)), in_use=$target.is('.trigger');
+ if ( $CURRENT_MENU ) {
+ $CURRENT_MENU.menu('cancel', e);
+ $CURRENT_MENU = null;
+ }
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+ ($CURRENT_MENU=$menu).menu('context', e);
+ }
+ return !in_use;
+}
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+function open_menu( trigger, $menu ){
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+ $fhitem.length && user_intent('interest', $fhitem[0]);
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+
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+ global = $trigger.offset(),
+ local = $menu.offsetParent().offset();
+
+ // Ugly IE position hack required:
+ $.browser.msie && IE7.test($.browser.version) && (local.top = 0);
+
+ // pin the menu (horizontally) on-screen
+ global.left = Math.min(global.left, right-$menu.width());
+
+ $trigger.addClass('trigger');
+ $menu.css({
+ position: 'absolute',
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+ left: global.left - local.left,
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+ $(trigger).removeClass('trigger');
+ ($CURRENT_MENU===$menu) && ($CURRENT_MENU=false);
+}
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+ var user_is_admin = 0;
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+ try { Tags.submit(fhitem, command); } catch ( err ) { }
+ return false;
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+
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+ live('mousedown', function( e ){
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+ return true;
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+ var target = original_target(e),
+ tag = $(target).text();
+ addfhfilter(tag);
+ }
+ e.preventDefault();
+ return false;
+ });
+
+$TAG_MENU.menu({
+ cssNamespace: 'slash',
+ liveTriggers: true,
+ clickDuration: 300,
+
+ start: function( e, ui ){
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+
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+ },
+
+ select: function( e, ui ){
+ var $tag = $(ui.trigger),
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+ <span id="title-102640098" class="story-title"> <a href="//developers.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2024232/software-developers-are-now-more-valuable-to-companies-than-money-says-survey">Software Developers Are Now More Valuable To Companies Than Money, Says Survey</a> <span class=" no extlnk"><a class="story-sourcelnk" href="https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/06/companies-worry-more-about-access-to-software-developers-than-capital.html" title="External link - https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/06/companies-worry-more-about-access-to-software-developers-than-capital.html" target="_blank"> (cnbc.com) </a></span></span>
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+ <time id="fhtime-102640098" datetime="on Thursday September 06, 2018 @06:00PM">on Thursday September 06, 2018 @06:00PM</time>
+
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+ from the <span class="dept-text">new-breed-of-corporate-leaders</span> dept.
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+ <div id="text-102640098" class="p">
+
+
+ An anonymous reader quotes a report from CNBC: <i>As our global economy increasingly comes to run on technology-enabled rails and every company becomes a tech company, demand for high-quality software engineers is at an all-time high. A recent study from <a href="https://stripe.com/reports/developer-coefficient-2018">Stripe and Harris Poll</a> found that 61 percent of C-suite executives believe access to developer talent is a threat to the success of their business. Perhaps more surprisingly -- as we mark a decade after the financial crisis -- <a href="https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/06/companies-worry-more-about-access-to-software-developers-than-capital.html">this threat was even ranked above capital constraints</a>. And yet, despite being many corporations' most precious resource, developer talents are all too often squandered. Collectively, companies today lose upward of $300 billion a year paying down "technical debt," as developers pour time into maintaining legacy systems or dealing with the ramifications of bad software. This is especially worrisome, given the outsized impact developers have on companies' chances of success. Software developers don't have a monopoly on good ideas, but their skill set makes them a uniquely deep source of innovation, productivity and new economic connections. When deployed correctly, developers can be economic multipliers -- coefficients that dramatically ratchet up the output of the teams and companies of which they're a part.</i><br>
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+ <h2><a href="//developers.slashdot.org/story/18/06/19/2332240/github-medium-remove-public-ice-employee-data-repository?sdsrc=popbyskid">GitHub, Medium Remove Public ICE Employee Data Repository</a><br></h2>
+ <h2><a href="//developers.slashdot.org/story/18/04/30/1518249/stack-overflow-admits-it-hasnt-been-welcoming-to-newer-coders-women-people-of-color-and-others-outlines-how-it-plans-to-change-that?sdsrc=popbyskid">Stack Overflow Admits It Hasn't Been Welcoming To 'Newer Coders, Women, People of Color, and Others'; Outlines How It Plans To Change That</a><br></h2>
+ <h2><a href="//developers.slashdot.org/story/17/11/27/039226/why-esr-hates-c-respects-java-and-thinks-go-but-not-rust-will-replace-c?sdsrc=popbyskid">Why ESR Hates C++, Respects Java, and Thinks Go (But Not Rust) Will Replace C</a><br></h2>
+ <h2><a href="//developers.slashdot.org/story/18/07/07/0342201/is-c-a-really-terrible-language?sdsrc=popbyskid">Is C++ a 'Really Terrible Language'?</a><br></h2>
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+ <li id="tree_57266246" class="comment full contain"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266246" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266246" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266246" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266246" name="comment_link_57266246" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266246" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266246)" >So why not treat them well?</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266246" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266246); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>5</a>, Insightful)</span></h4>
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+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~gweihir">gweihir</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~gweihir">( 88907 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266246">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @06:03PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266246">#57266246</a>)
+ <small> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266246"><p>Naa, that would be un-capitalist. Developers must be cheap wage-slaves that do not have a real career-path and are unable to find a job once they hit 50. That will surely not have any impact on whether smart people go into software writing or not, right?</p></div>
+ </div>
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+
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+ <span id="comment_score_57266288" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266288); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>1</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Dannis12345">Dannis12345</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Dannis12345">( 5512754 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266288"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266288">This is really true. As the fact that the IT leads the world.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266288">
+
+</div>
+</div>
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+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266430" name="comment_link_57266430" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266430" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266430)" >Re:</a>
+
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~ShanghaiBill">ShanghaiBill</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~ShanghaiBill">( 739463 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266430"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266430"><p><div class="quote"><p>But even so, I hear these horror stories about how software developers are treated and I just have not seen it.</p></div><p>Me neither. I have worked for companies that had catered meals, free soda, laundry service, sky diving bonding trips, etc. I have had plenty of opportunities to travel. I have worked some late nights, and done a few death marches, but those only lasted a few weeks, out of a career lasting decades.</p><p>Software developers are likely the most spoiled employees in the history of the world.</p><p>People will alway whine.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
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+
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~gweihir">gweihir</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~gweihir">( 88907 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266570"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266570"><p><div class="quote"><p>People will alway whine.</p></div><p>And there you are wrong. I have a pretty good career myself. But I see how many coders are treated and I am not surprised at all that there are by far not enough good ones.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266570">
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+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266762" name="comment_link_57266762" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266762" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266762)" >Re:</a>
+
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~NicknameUnavailable">NicknameUnavailable</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~NicknameUnavailable">( 4134147 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266762"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266762">As much as I'm for better treatment and perks for coders, the issue of "not enough good ones" isn't because of that. There's only so many smart people, dumb people and mediocre people don't make good coders. Some of the above-average ones might make the cut as maintenance coders or some incredibly soul-crushing AGILE environment where they don't actually have to think, but for the most part any programming position of note requires a 150+ IQ to do even moderately well.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266762">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266762"></div>
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+ <li id="hiddens_57266762" class="hide"></li>
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~HornWumpus">HornWumpus</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~HornWumpus">( 783565 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266910"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266910"><p>
+How many 3+ standard deviation people are we supposed to believe you know?
+</p><p>
+Same crit as you gave the GP. I doubt you know even one.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266910">
+
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+</div>
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+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266984" name="comment_link_57266984" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266984" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266984)" >Re:</a>
+
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~gweihir">gweihir</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~gweihir">( 88907 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266984"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266984"><p>The issue is very much that a lot of the few people that could be good at it, see the working conditions and career options and go somewhere else. Also, 150+IQ people basically do not exist. I gather this is some wired non-standard US scale...</p></div>
+ </div>
+
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+
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~_Sharp'r_">_Sharp'r_</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~_Sharp'r_">( 649297 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267298"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267298"><p>Having a measured IQ >150, I can tell you with my excellent two-minute Googling skills there are approximately 300K in the U.S. if you're using the Stanford-Binet scale. For the Wechsler scale, it's more like 140K, which is still a lot of people. Heck, the Prometheus Society's cut-off for membership is 160+. I guess to you, they basically don't exist...</p></div>
+ </div>
+
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+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267426" name="comment_link_57267426" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57267426" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267426)" >Re:</a>
+
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~ShanghaiBill">ShanghaiBill</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~ShanghaiBill">( 739463 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267426"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267426"><p><div class="quote"><p>... see the working conditions and career options and go somewhere else.</p></div><p>Where do they go?</p><p>Doctors, lawyers and investment bankers work longer hours than programmers. Nearly everyone else makes less money.</p><p>Maybe they become underwater welders?</p></div>
+ </div>
+
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+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266940" name="comment_link_57266940" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266940" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266940)" >Re:So why not treat them well?</a>
+
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+ <span id="comment_score_57266940" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266940); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>5</a>, Interesting)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~spagthorpe">spagthorpe</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~spagthorpe">( 111133 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266940">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @08:53PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266940">#57266940</a>)
+ <small> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266940"><p>It won't really have any impact, because young people don't think they'll ever get old. Or it will be different for them.</p><p>Had a 20-something at my last job make a number of comments about some of the older developers there, saying they'd hate to still be working at that age, and that they are probably stuck doing the same work because they can't learn anything new. I don't know why he was telling me this, as I was twice his age at the time, but it's obvious that he doesn't think he'll be in the same position.</p><p>They ultimately did lay off a lot of their senior engineers and replace a lot of the position with 20-somethings, including in project management positions. A number of those projects never saw the light of day after years of re-writes into new frameworks.</p></div>
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+
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+ <span id="comment_score_57266250" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266250); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~xxxJonBoyxxx">xxxJonBoyxxx</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~xxxJonBoyxxx">( 565205 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266250"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266250">And open concept offices.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266250">
+
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+</div>
+
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+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266444" name="comment_link_57266444" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266444" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266444)" >Re:And yet there's agile</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266444" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266444); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>5</a>, Interesting)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Seven+Spirals">Seven Spirals</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Seven+Spirals">( 4924941 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266444">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @06:45PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266444">#57266444</a>)
+ <small> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266444">I've quit one job and refused two others because of open offices. The two I refused were absolutely flabbergasted by my refusal. They literally could not understand why anyone wouldn't want to be in an open office space surrounded on 3.8 sides by glass-walled manager offices, loud ugly marketing girls, and a bunch of H1B dudes who couldn't be bothered to wear deodorant. That place (MX Logic) had the worst looking office I've ever seen. One of them offered me the job on the spot after the interview and I was already shutting them down and refusing it before they even got started. I told them there is about a zero percent chance of getting anyone really talented to take the gig, because they had this ridiculous noisy slave pit thing going. I nearly left before I even *did* the interview I was so disgusted with the place. The hiring manager was (of course) offended, but he was also clueless. About a year after that interview I had a guy come up to me at the local Maker Space who was one of the "technical resources" for the company during the interview (quiet guy in the back of the room). He told me "My god was I cheering when you refused them over the goddamn open workspace idiocy. My boss was upset over that for weeks. They still talk about it during the hiring process and argue about it."</div>
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+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266696" name="comment_link_57266696" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266696" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266696)" >Re:</a>
+
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+ <span id="comment_score_57266696" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266696); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>1</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~bkmoore">bkmoore</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~bkmoore">( 1910118 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266696"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266696"><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr></p><div class="quote"><p>....One of them offered me the job on the spot after the interview and I was already shutting them down and refusing it before they even got started.....</p></div><p>It begs the question, why even apply there in the first place.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
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+
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Klaxton">Klaxton</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Klaxton">( 609696 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266980"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266980"><p><div class="quote"><p>It begs the question, why even apply there in the first place.</p></div><p>So you could see their office environment tucked away behind the job description on the internet?</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266980">
+
+</div>
+</div>
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+ <div id="comment_top_57266840" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266840" name="comment_link_57266840" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266840" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266840)" >Re:</a>
+
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Ocker3">Ocker3</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Ocker3">( 1232550 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266840"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266840">"But I can See everyone and I know that they're working" - Manager
+
+If someone doesn't know enough about their direct report's job that they don't know whether they're working or not without seeing them at their desk, there's a problem. Not all jobs are reduced in efficiency by a cubicle farm, but if your job is primarily about mental focus for the time-intensive tasks, then most people will benefit from having their own room. And the employer will probably benefit enough that an actual room is a worthwhile</div>
+ </div>
+
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+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267222" name="comment_link_57267222" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57267222" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267222)" >Re:</a>
+
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~erp_consultant">erp_consultant</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~erp_consultant">( 2614861 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267222"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267222"><p>Sounds like a real horror show. Safe to say you made the right move.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267222">
+
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+</div>
+
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+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267028" name="comment_link_57267028" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57267028" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267028)" >Re:</a>
+
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Klaxton">Klaxton</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Klaxton">( 609696 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267028"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267028">I've worked in the industry for many years, usually with a private office or shared with one person. Recently got a job in an agile "scrum" shop, which went to an open floorplan a few months later. Miserable experience on both counts. Every day you get a Jira work ticket for some "the user wants to see" granule of a thing that you had no part in designing. Zero privacy. It is amazingly de-motivating.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267028">
+
+</div>
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+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~HornWumpus">HornWumpus</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~HornWumpus">( 783565 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266276"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266276"><p>
+Microsoft owns javascript? You have things backwards.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266276">
+
+</div>
+</div>
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+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267186" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267186); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~gweihir">gweihir</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~gweihir">( 88907 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267186"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267186"><p>I was thinking the same thing. Although JavaScript, Java, and the surrounding ecosystems could have come from MS, no doubt.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267186">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267186"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267186">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267186" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266500" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266500" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266500" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266500"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266500">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266500" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57266260"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266260">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266262" class="comment full contain"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266262" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266262" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266262" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266262" name="comment_link_57266262" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266262" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266262)" >Yeah, right</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266262" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266262); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>5</a>, Insightful)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span>Anonymous Coward</span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266262">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @06:08PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266262">#57266262</a>)
+ <small> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266262"><p>If they considered developers more important than money, they'd pay the developers more to keep the skilled ones. Every time a developer leaves a company, a hunk of business knowledge walks out the door with him.</p><p>Companies care about that quarter's finance report, and the C-level execs care only about fleecing the company for all they can stuff into their own pockets. Look at what they do, not what some survey says.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266262">
+<span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57266262" class="btn link" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&op=Reply&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266262" onclick="D2.replyTo(57266262); return false;">Reply to This</a> <a href="#" class="comment_share_toggle btn link">Share</a>
+ <div class="comment_share sharethis-0 hide"><span class="au"></span>
+ <a class="janrain t" href="#" data-provider="twitter" data-message="Yeah, right by Anonymous Coward @slashdot" data-url="https://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266262" data-title="Yeah, right">twitter</a>
+ <a class="janrain f" href="#" data-provider="facebook" data-message="Yeah, right by Anonymous Coward" data-url="https://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266262" data-title="Yeah, right">facebook</a>
+ <a class="janrain l" href="#" data-provider="linkedin" data-message="Yeah, right by Anonymous Coward" data-url="https://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266262" data-title="Yeah, right">linkedin</a>
+ <a class="g" href="https://plus.google.com/share?url=https://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466%26cid=57266262" onclick="javascript:window.open(this.href,'', 'menubar=no,toolbar=no,resizable=yes,scrollbars=yes,height=600,width=600');return false;"><img src="//www.gstatic.com/images/icons/gplus-16.png" alt="Share on Google+"/></a>
+ </div>
+ <span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57266262" title="Flag this comment as Inappropriate" class="ui-icon flag fright" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&op=flag&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266262" onclick="return false;">Flag as Inappropriate</a>
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266262"></div>
+
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+ <li id="hiddens_57266262" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266262"><li id="tree_57266522" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266522" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266522" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266522"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266522">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266522" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266522"><li id="tree_57266624" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266624" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266624" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266624" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266624" name="comment_link_57266624" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266624" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266624)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266624" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266624); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>3</a>, Interesting)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span>Anonymous Coward</span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266624"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266624"><p>LOL. You've massively understated the ageism and the issue of job qualifications.</p><p>First, the ageism problem is associated also with a problem that people aren't allowed to take breaks. After having great success even to the point of being a chief architect on an 80-man program, I quit working for a while and now can't find anyone who will let me start at the bottom.</p><p>But, the job qualification thing is really ridiculous. A good software engineer is a specialist at picking up new domains, languages, frameworks,<span class="substr"> </span></p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266624">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266624"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266624">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266624" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266732" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266732" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266732" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266732" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266732" name="comment_link_57266732" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266732" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266732)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266732" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266732); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Anonymous+Brave+Guy">Anonymous Brave Guy</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Anonymous+Brave+Guy">( 457657 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266732"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266732"><p><div class="quote"><p>Don't know where you live, but in most places I think developers are paid fairly well. We offer straight-out-of-school newbies $80-$90k, and still some turn us down for better offers.</p></div><p>Most places are not the Bay Area or a few big US cities. In most of the world, new starter salaries in software development are rarely more than 1/3 of that level, and in many places they are much lower.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266732">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266732"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266732">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266732" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266856" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266856" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266856" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266856" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266856" name="comment_link_57266856" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266856" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266856)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266856" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266856); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Ocker3">Ocker3</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Ocker3">( 1232550 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266856"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266856">Your post is probably at zero rep because it was posted AC, but you make good points.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266856">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266856"></div>
+
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+ <li id="hiddens_57266856" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
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+<div id="comment_status_57266886" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266886" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266886"></div>
+
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+ <li id="hiddens_57266886" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266886"><li id="tree_57266922" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266922" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266922" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266922"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266922">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266922" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57266886"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266886">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="hidestring_57266522"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266522">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="hidestring_57266262"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266262">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266264" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266264" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266264" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266264"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266264">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266264" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266264"><li id="tree_57267040" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267040" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267040" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267040" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267040" name="comment_link_57267040" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57267040" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267040)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267040" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267040); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>3</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Klaxton">Klaxton</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Klaxton">( 609696 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267040"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267040">Software developers generally have to do what they are told, and work on whatever the boss thinks is important. You don't get to decide whether it is going to bring in money or not.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267040">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267040"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267040">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267040" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266278" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266278" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266278" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266278" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266278" name="comment_link_57266278" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266278" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266278)" >Yeah haven't heard that one before</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266278" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266278); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Crashmarik">Crashmarik</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Crashmarik">( 635988 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266278"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266278"><p>Maybe it just sounds too much like 40 years of businesses claiming there was a shortage of engineers in the U.S. when what they meant was there was a shortage of engineers that could be treated really badly.</p><p>Or maybe it's the fact that companies only seem to be willing to hire H1Bs that will do anything not to go back to their shitholes, or young kids who are stupid enough to believe managements promises and have no family or social life to distract from putting in 80+ hour weeks ?</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266278">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266278"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266278">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266278" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266278"><li id="tree_57266294" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266294" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266294" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266294" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266294" name="comment_link_57266294" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266294" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266294)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266294" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266294); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~zlives">zlives</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~zlives">( 2009072 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266294"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266294"><p>you misread, and i quote<br>"developer talent is a threat to the success of their business" thus the hiring of no talent, spot filling h1b. and if they accidentally get a talented h1b... replace and repeat.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266294">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266294"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266294">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266294" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266284" class="comment full contain"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266284" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266284" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266284" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266284" name="comment_link_57266284" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266284" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266284)" >FTFY</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266284" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266284); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>5</a>, Funny)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~thevirtualcat">thevirtualcat</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~thevirtualcat">( 1071504 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266284">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @06:10PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266284">#57266284</a>)
+ <small> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266284"><p>Software Developers Who Are Willing To Work For Uncompetitive Wages And No Benefits Are Now More Valuable To Companies Than Money, Says Survey</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266284">
+<span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57266284" class="btn link" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&op=Reply&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266284" onclick="D2.replyTo(57266284); return false;">Reply to This</a> <a href="#" class="comment_share_toggle btn link">Share</a>
+ <div class="comment_share sharethis-0 hide"><span class="au"></span>
+ <a class="janrain t" href="#" data-provider="twitter" data-message="FTFY by thevirtualcat @slashdot" data-url="https://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266284" data-title="FTFY">twitter</a>
+ <a class="janrain f" href="#" data-provider="facebook" data-message="FTFY by thevirtualcat" data-url="https://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266284" data-title="FTFY">facebook</a>
+ <a class="janrain l" href="#" data-provider="linkedin" data-message="FTFY by thevirtualcat" data-url="https://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266284" data-title="FTFY">linkedin</a>
+ <a class="g" href="https://plus.google.com/share?url=https://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466%26cid=57266284" onclick="javascript:window.open(this.href,'', 'menubar=no,toolbar=no,resizable=yes,scrollbars=yes,height=600,width=600');return false;"><img src="//www.gstatic.com/images/icons/gplus-16.png" alt="Share on Google+"/></a>
+ </div>
+ <span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57266284" title="Flag this comment as Inappropriate" class="ui-icon flag fright" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&op=flag&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266284" onclick="return false;">Flag as Inappropriate</a>
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266284"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266284">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266284" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266284"><li id="tree_57266454" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266454" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266454" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266454" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266454" name="comment_link_57266454" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266454" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266454)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266454" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266454); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Seven+Spirals">Seven Spirals</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Seven+Spirals">( 4924941 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266454"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266454">Fucking-A right. Period.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266454">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266454"></div>
+
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+ <li id="hiddens_57266454" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266296" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266296" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266296" class="cw">
+</div>
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+<div id="replyto_57266296"></div>
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+<div id="comment_status_57267398" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267398" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267398"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267398">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267398" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57266296"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266296">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266302" class="comment full contain"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266302" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266302" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266302" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266302" name="comment_link_57266302" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266302" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266302)" >.ORG</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266302" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266302); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>4</a>, Insightful)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~fluffernutter">fluffernutter</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~fluffernutter">( 1411889 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266302">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @06:15PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266302">#57266302</a>)
+ <small> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266302">This just tells me that developers need to get organized and start saying no to 80+ work weeks collectively. Otherwise it will be divided they fall, forever.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266302">
+<span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57266302" class="btn link" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&op=Reply&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266302" onclick="D2.replyTo(57266302); return false;">Reply to This</a> <a href="#" class="comment_share_toggle btn link">Share</a>
+ <div class="comment_share sharethis-0 hide"><span class="au"></span>
+ <a class="janrain t" href="#" data-provider="twitter" data-message=".ORG by fluffernutter @slashdot" data-url="https://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266302" data-title=".ORG">twitter</a>
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+ </div>
+ <span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57266302" title="Flag this comment as Inappropriate" class="ui-icon flag fright" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&op=flag&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266302" onclick="return false;">Flag as Inappropriate</a>
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266302"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266302">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266302" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266302"><li id="tree_57266864" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266864" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266864" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266864" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266864" name="comment_link_57266864" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266864" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266864)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266864" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266864); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Ocker3">Ocker3</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Ocker3">( 1232550 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266864"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266864">How do we re-invent Unions without calling them Unions and avoid the very real baggage that the term has in the USA? Guilds?</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266864">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266864"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266864">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266864" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266864"><li id="tree_57267134" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267134" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267134" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267134"></div>
+
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+ <li id="hiddens_57267134" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
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+<div id="comment_status_57267506" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267506" class="cw">
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+
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+ <li id="hiddens_57267506" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
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+</div>
+
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+
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+ <li id="hiddens_57267584" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267606" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267606" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267606" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267606"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267606">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267606" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
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+<div id="comment_status_57266334" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266334" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266334"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266334">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266334" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266334"><li id="tree_57267418" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267418" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267418" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267418"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267418">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267418" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57266334"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266334">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266342" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266342" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266342" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266342" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266342" name="comment_link_57266342" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266342" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266342)" >In other news...</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266342" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266342); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>1</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~roboboxcomputer">Robobox Computer</a> <span class="socialbadge"><a class="g" href="#" title="From Google"></a></span> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~roboboxcomputer">( 5357621 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266342"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266342">The sun rose today.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266342">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266342"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266342">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266342" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266412" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266412" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266412" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266412" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266412" name="comment_link_57266412" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266412" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266412)" >Legacy systems are out of control</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266412" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266412); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~xack">xack</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~xack">( 5304745 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266412"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266412">Microsoft has just announced paid extended support for Windows 7 as too many companies are using it. There’s a lot of server 2003 systems out there too, with companies rather risking security exploits than upgrade.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266412">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266412"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266412">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266412" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266412"><li id="tree_57266550" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266550" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266550" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266550"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266550">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266550" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266550"><li id="tree_57266876" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266876" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266876" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266876" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266876" name="comment_link_57266876" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266876" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266876)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266876" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266876); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Ocker3">Ocker3</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Ocker3">( 1232550 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266876"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266876">A pity that new features aren't separated from security patches to allow users to keep their old platform secure without feature changes.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266876">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266876"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266876">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266876" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267582" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267582" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267582" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267582" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267582" name="comment_link_57267582" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57267582" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267582)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267582" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267582); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~xvan">xvan</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~xvan">( 2935999 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267582"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267582"><p><div class="quote"><p> Newer file browsers no longer let you edit the file path, you have to click on everything to get somewhere</p></div><p> <tt>Ctrl+L</tt>, no, you don't need to thank me.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267582">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267582"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267582">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267582" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266726" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266726" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266726" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266726" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266726" name="comment_link_57266726" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266726" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266726)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266726" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266726); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>1</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span>Anonymous Coward</span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266726"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266726"><p>So I'm supposed to upgrade the single Windows 2003 system I have, running as a non-networked VM, hosting a proprietary application on a system we need to lookup legacy data that never changes so I can pay to upgrade to a modern system, figure out a way to migrate the data from one proprietary application to a new and different system just so I can have support I don't need on a system that can't realistically be exploited in the first place?</p><p>OR I'm supposed to pay a premium for extended support on the curren<span class="substr"> </span></p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266726">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266726"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266726">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266726" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267192" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267192" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267192" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267192" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267192" name="comment_link_57267192" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57267192" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267192)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267192" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267192); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>3</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~gweihir">gweihir</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~gweihir">( 88907 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267192"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267192"><p>That is a different problem. Their new offerings are just really bad. Also, nobody sane used MS crap on server-side.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267192">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267192"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267192">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267192" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57266412"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266412">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266416" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266416" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266416" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266416"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266416">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266416" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266474" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266474" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266474" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266474"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266474">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266474" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266514" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266514" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266514" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266514"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266514">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266514" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266514"><li id="tree_57267388" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267388" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267388" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267388"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267388">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267388" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57266514"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266514">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266518" class="comment full contain"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266518" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266518" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266518" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266518" name="comment_link_57266518" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266518" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266518)" >Yet us 50+ folks are unemployed</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266518" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266518); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>4</a>, Informative)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Snotnose">Snotnose</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Snotnose">( 212196 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266518">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @07:05PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266518">#57266518</a>)
+ <small> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266518">Forget how long I've been out of work, it's been 2-3 years now since I quit looking.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266518">
+<span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57266518" class="btn link" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&op=Reply&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266518" onclick="D2.replyTo(57266518); return false;">Reply to This</a> <a href="#" class="comment_share_toggle btn link">Share</a>
+ <div class="comment_share sharethis-0 hide"><span class="au"></span>
+ <a class="janrain t" href="#" data-provider="twitter" data-message="Yet us 50+ folks are unemployed by Snotnose @slashdot" data-url="https://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266518" data-title="Yet us 50+ folks are unemployed">twitter</a>
+ <a class="janrain f" href="#" data-provider="facebook" data-message="Yet us 50+ folks are unemployed by Snotnose" data-url="https://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266518" data-title="Yet us 50+ folks are unemployed">facebook</a>
+ <a class="janrain l" href="#" data-provider="linkedin" data-message="Yet us 50+ folks are unemployed by Snotnose" data-url="https://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266518" data-title="Yet us 50+ folks are unemployed">linkedin</a>
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+ </div>
+ <span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57266518" title="Flag this comment as Inappropriate" class="ui-icon flag fright" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&op=flag&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266518" onclick="return false;">Flag as Inappropriate</a>
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266518"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266518">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266518" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266518"><li id="tree_57266630" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266630" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266630" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266630" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266630" name="comment_link_57266630" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266630" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266630)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266630" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266630); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>3</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Locke2005">Locke2005</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Locke2005">( 849178 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266630"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266630">I'm 57 and got at least 3 calls TODAY offering to submit me for contract software positions. Granted, a lot of recruiters try to low-ball me on the hourly rate, but they change their tune as soon as you call their bluff and tell them you're not interested at that low rate.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266630">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266630"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266630">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266630" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266630"><li id="tree_57266708" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266708" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266708" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266708" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266708" name="comment_link_57266708" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266708" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266708)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266708" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266708); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>1</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span>Anonymous Coward</span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266708"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266708"><p><div class="quote"><p>I'm 57 and got at least 3 calls TODAY offering to submit me for contract software positions. Granted, a lot of recruiters try to low-ball me on the hourly rate, but they change their tune as soon as you call their bluff and tell them you're not interested at that low rate.</p></div><p>I get recruiters wanting to submit me all the time. Then after a week, I follow up and the "the position is closed." I think recruiters are assholes who got fired from see car lots for ethics violations.</p><p>So, when you get a real job with health insurance, you'll be an outlier.</p><p>Of course, that's assumimg you're not full of shit.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266708">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266708"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266708">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266708" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266708"><li id="tree_57266846" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266846" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266846" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266846" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266846" name="comment_link_57266846" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266846" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266846)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266846" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266846); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Locke2005">Locke2005</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Locke2005">( 849178 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266846"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266846">I agree; I regard recruiters as people that weren't ethical enough to get jobs as used car salesmen. I interviewed for a job once, didn't get any response, so I started another position. A month after the initial interview, the recruiter for the first position offered me $1500 cash in a plain, unmarked envelope to quit the job I'd just started and take the other position instead! (Apparently the cash came out of his commission.) So yes, recruiters know nothing, rely almost entirely on keyword searching in r</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266846">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266846"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266846">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266846" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li></ul></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266958" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266958" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266958" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266958"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266958">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266958" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57266518"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266518">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266574" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266574" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266574" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266574" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266574" name="comment_link_57266574" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266574" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266574)" >So, the old adage?</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266574" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266574); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~fahrbot-bot">fahrbot-bot</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~fahrbot-bot">( 874524 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266574"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266574"><p>
+Employees are our most valuable asset? I'm pretty sure it's actually still money.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266574">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266574"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266574">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266574" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266628" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266628" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266628" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266628"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266628">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266628" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266634" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266634" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266634" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266634" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266634" name="comment_link_57266634" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266634" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266634)" >Nonsensical headline...</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266634" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266634); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~JoeDuncan">JoeDuncan</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~JoeDuncan">( 874519 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266634"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266634"><p>It's like saying "gold is worth more than money!" - totally meaningless.</p><p>One (gold, developers) is a commodity that IS exchanged, the other (money) is the medium OF exchange.</p><p>Saying that "commodity X" is worth more than "exchange medium Y" makes no sense because a commodity CANNOT be worth "more" or "less" than the medium of exchange used - it can only ever be worth a specified amount of Y.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266634">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266634"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266634">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266634" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266718" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266718" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266718" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266718" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266718" name="comment_link_57266718" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266718" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266718)" >Talk about not understanding an article / Poll</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266718" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266718); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Harlequin80">Harlequin80</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Harlequin80">( 1671040 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266718"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266718"><p>No where does it say that companies think developers are more important than money.</p><p>The results state that the companies perceive the risk of not being able to find skills as higher than the risks of not being able to access capital.</p><p>This is especially true if you're a cash rich organisation.</p><p>In the current financial climate finding returns on your investments is hard. Interest rates are at historically low levels, bond returns are zero, and so that leaves higher risk investments to get returns. That effecti<span class="substr"> </span></p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266718">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266718"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266718">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266718" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266718"><li id="tree_57266908" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266908" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266908" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266908"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266908">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266908" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57266718"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266718">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266752" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266752" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266752" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266752" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266752" name="comment_link_57266752" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266752" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266752)" >lots of employees are "worth more than money"...</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266752" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266752); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~bkmoore">bkmoore</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~bkmoore">( 1910118 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266752"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266752">What management school fails to teach young inexperienced executives: If the company's future existence depends on whether or not an employee does the job correctly or not, they are "worth more than money".</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266752">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266752"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266752">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266752" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266780" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266780" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266780" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266780" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266780" name="comment_link_57266780" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266780" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266780)" >Tech debt is a business decision</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266780" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266780); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~swm">swm</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~swm">( 171547 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266780"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266780"><p>Incurring technical debt is a business decision.<br>And it may well be the right decision.<br>For example, in a startup, time to market typically trumps software quality.<br>And there are a lot of startups in the software field...</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266780">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266780"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266780">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266780" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266842" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266842" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266842" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266842" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266842" name="comment_link_57266842" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57266842" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266842)" >Not at my compamy</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266842" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266842); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>1</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~dccase">dccase</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~dccase">( 56453 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266842"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266842"><p>Not at my company, and certainly not at any other publicly-traded company.<br>Maybe at some privately-held company until it gets bought out.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266842">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266842"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266842">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266842" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266950" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266950" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266950" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266950"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266950">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266950" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267004" class="comment full contain"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267004" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267004" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267004" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267004" name="comment_link_57267004" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57267004" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267004)" >Employees are our Most Valuable Asset</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267004" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267004); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>3</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~R3d+M3rcury">R3d M3rcury</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~R3d+M3rcury">( 871886 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267004">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @09:16PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57267004">#57267004</a>)
+ <small><a href="//slashdot.org/~R3d+M3rcury/journal/" title="Friday May 04, 2007 @09:30PM" class="user_journal_display">Journal</a> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267004"><p>Right behind <a href="http://dilbert.com/strip/1993-03-03" title="dilbert.com">carbon paper.</a> [dilbert.com]</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267004">
+<span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57267004" class="btn link" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&op=Reply&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57267004" onclick="D2.replyTo(57267004); return false;">Reply to This</a> <a href="#" class="comment_share_toggle btn link">Share</a>
+ <div class="comment_share sharethis-0 hide"><span class="au"></span>
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+<div id="replyto_57267066"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267066">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267066" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267180" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267180" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267180" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267180" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267180" name="comment_link_57267180" href="//developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580466&cid=57267180" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267180)" >And this is why we keep them chained to</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267180" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267180); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
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+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Ranger">Ranger</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Ranger">( 1783 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267180"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267180">a cubicle.</div>
+ </div>
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+ }
+</script>
+
+<!-- Sticky Ads -->
+<script type="text/javascript">
+var topBannerViewed = false;
+if($('#div-gpt-ad-728x90_a').length > 0 && window.outerWidth >= 1070 && !isAdBlockActive){
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+ var y = $(document).scrollTop();
+ var z = y + window.outerHeight;
+ var navOffset = 0;
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+ ];
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+ }
+ $('.adwrap-unviewed').each(function(){
+ var cls = 'adwrap-sticky';
+ var toggleCls = 'adwrap';
+ //$('.banner-wrapper').css('height', $('.banner-contain').outerHeight());
+ if($(this).hasClass('railad')) {
+ if(topBannerViewed){
+ var topPixels = $(this).offset().top;
+ navOffset += $('.adwrap').outerHeight();
+ if(y >= topPixels && y >= navOffset){
+ $('#slashboxes').css('top', 0).css('position','fixed').css('right',13);
+ } else {
+ $('#slashboxes').removeAttr('style');
+ }
+ }
+ return;
+ }
+ var topPixels = $(this).offset().top;
+ if(y >= topPixels && y >= navOffset){
+ $(this).addClass(cls);
+ $(this).removeClass('adwrap');
+ if(cls == 'adwrap-sticky') { //top banner
+ topBannerViewed = false;
+ $('#slashboxes').css('top',$(this).outerHeight() || 0).css('position','fixed').css('right',13);
+ }
+ if(topBannerViewed) {
+ console.log('hereeee');
+ $('#slashboxes').css('top', 0).css('position','fixed').css('right',13);
+ }
+ }else{
+ $(this).removeClass(cls);
+ $(this).addClass(toggleCls);
+ $('#slashboxes').removeAttr('style');
+ }
+ });
+ if($('.adwrap-viewed-banner').length > 0){
+ topBannerViewed = true;
+ $('.adwrap-viewed-banner').removeClass('adwrap-unviewed').removeClass('adwrap-sticky').addClass('adwrap');
+ }
+ if($('.adwrap-viewed-railad').length > 0){
+ $('.adwrap-viewed-railad').removeClass('adwrap-unviewed').removeClass('adwrap-railad-sticky');
+ $('#slashboxes').removeAttr('style');
+ }
+ });
+}
+</script>
+
+<!-- Piwik -->
+<script type="text/javascript">
+ var _paq = _paq || [];
+ _paq.push(["setCookieDomain", "*.slashdot.org"]);
+ _paq.push(['trackPageView']);
+ _paq.push(['enableLinkTracking']);
+function initPiwikAndNels() {
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+ _paq.push(['setSiteId', 40]);
+ var d=document, g=d.createElement('script'), s=d.getElementsByTagName('script')[0];
+ g.type='text/javascript'; g.async=true; g.defer=true; g.src=u+'sd.js'; s.parentNode.insertBefore(g,s);
+ })();
+
+ if(window.location.pathname == '/'){
+ var nelId = (location.search.split('nel_id=')[1] || '').split('&')[0];
+ var url = '/ajax.pl?op=nel';
+ if(nelId){
+ url += '&nel_id='+nelId;
+ }
+ $.ajax({
+ url: url,
+ success: function(html){
+ $('#firehoselist article').eq(1).after(html);
+ }
+ });
+ }
+ //announcement NEL
+ if(document.getElementById('announcementText')){
+ $('#announcementText').hide();
+ var hlUrl = '/ajax.pl?op=hl_nel';
+ if(nelId){
+ hlUrl += '&nel_id='+nelId;
+ }
+ $.ajax({
+ url: hlUrl,
+ success: function(html){
+ if(html.length < 10){
+ $('#announcementText').show();
+ return;
+ }
+ $('#announcementText').html(html).show();
+ },
+ error: function () {
+ $('#announcementText').show();
+ }
+ });
+ }
+}
+bizx.cmp.ifConsent('publisher', ['storage', 'measurement'], initPiwikAndNels);
+</script>
+
+
+<script type="text/javascript">
+_linkedin_data_partner_id = "113712";
+</script><script type="text/javascript">
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+s.parentNode.insertBefore(b, s);})();
+}
+</script>
+<noscript>
+<img height="1" width="1" style="display:none;" alt="" src="https://dc.ads.linkedin.com/collect/?pid=113712&fmt=gif" />
+</noscript>
+
+<!-- Datonics -->
+<script async type="text/javascript" src="//ads.pro-market.net/ads/scripts/site-143573.js"></script>
+ <script id="after-content" type="text/javascript">
+(function( $, fn, console ){
+ $ && fn && $(function(){ fn($, console); });
+})(window.jQuery, window.pageload_done, window.console);
+</script>
+
+ <script type='text/javascript'>
+ if(!document.location.href.match(/source=autorefresh/)) {
+ document.write('<img src="//slashdot.org/images/js.gif?596">');
+ }
+</script>
+<noscript>
+ <img src="//slashdot.org/images/njs.gif?468">
+</noscript>
+ <div class="busy genericspinner hide"><span>Working...</span></div>
+ <script>
+ if(typeof(Storage)!=="undefined"){
+ window.scrollTo(0,sessionStorage.scrollPos);
+ $(window).scroll(function () {
+ //You've scrolled this much:
+ sessionStorage.scrollPos = $(window).scrollTop();
+ });
+ }
+ $(function(){
+ $('a').click(function(){
+ delete sessionStorage.scrollPos;
+ })
+ });
+ // window.onbeforeunload = function () {
+ // console.log('bakc button clicked');
+ // delete sessionStorage.scrollPos;
+ // }
+ window.onpopstate=function() {
+ delete sessionStorage.scrollPos;
+ }
+ </script>
+
+
+
+ <!-- 1x1 story page -->
+ <div id='div-gpt-ad-1x1'><script type='text/javascript'>
+googletag.cmd.push(function(){
+googletag.display('div-gpt-ad-1x1');});</script></div>
+
+
+ <script type="text/javascript">
+ if (!window.is_euro_union) {
+ window._taboola = window._taboola || [];
+ _taboola.push({flush: true});
+ }
+ </script>
+
+ </body>
+ </html>
+
+
+ <!-- footer type=current end -->
\ No newline at end of file
--- /dev/null
+<!-- html-header type=current begin -->
+
+ <!DOCTYPE html>
+
+ <html lang="en">
+ <head>
+ <!-- Render IE9 -->
+ <meta http-equiv="X-UA-Compatible" content="IE=edge,chrome=1">
+
+
+
+<script>window.is_euro_union = 1;</script>
+<script src="https://a.fsdn.com/con/js/sftheme/vendor/promise.polyfill.min.js"></script>
+<script src="https://a.fsdn.com/con/js/sftheme/cmp.js"></script>
+<script src="https://slashdot.org/country.js"></script>
+<script type='text/javascript'>
+if (window.is_euro_union) {
+ bizx.cmp.init({
+ // to test: 'Display UI': 'always',
+ 'Publisher Name': 'Slashdot',
+ 'Publisher Logo': 'https://a.fsdn.com/sd/sdlogo.svg',
+ 'Consent Scope': 'global group',
+ 'Consent Scope Group URL': 'https://slashdot.org/gdpr-cookies.pl',
+ });
+}
+</script>
+<link rel="stylesheet" href="//a.fsdn.com/con/css/sftheme/sandiego/cmp.css" type="text/css">
+<style type="text/css">
+.qc-cmp-publisher-logo, .qc-cmp-nav-bar-publisher-logo {
+ background-color: #016765;
+}
+</style>
+<script>
+if (!window.is_euro_union) {
+(function (s,o,n,a,r,i,z,e) {s['StackSonarObject']=r;s[r]=s[r]||function(){
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+ z=o.getElementsByTagName(n)[0];i.async=1;i.src=a;z.parentNode.insertBefore(i,z)
+ })(window,document,'script','https://www.stack-sonar.com/ping.js','stackSonar');
+ stackSonar('stack-connect', '66');
+}
+</script>
+
+ <script id="before-content" type="text/javascript">
+(function () {
+ if (typeof window.sdmedia !== 'object') {
+ window.sdmedia = {};
+ }
+ if (typeof window.sdmedia.site !== 'object') {
+ window.sdmedia.site = {};
+ }
+
+ var site = window.sdmedia.site;
+ site.rootdir = "//slashdot.org";
+}());
+
+var pageload = {
+ pagemark: '176400714569296461',
+ before_content: (new Date).getTime()
+};
+function pageload_done( $, console, maybe ){
+ pageload.after_readycode = (new Date).getTime();
+ pageload.content_ready_time = pageload.content_ready - pageload.before_content;
+ pageload.script_ready_time = pageload.after_readycode - pageload.content_ready;
+ pageload.ready_time = pageload.after_readycode - pageload.before_content;
+ // Only report 1% of cases.
+ maybe || (Math.random()>0.01) || $.ajax({ data: {
+ op: 'page_profile',
+ pagemark: pageload.pagemark,
+ dom: pageload.content_ready_time,
+ js: pageload.script_ready_time
+ } });
+}
+</script>
+ <meta http-equiv="X-UA-Compatible" content="IE=edge,chrome=1">
+
+ <title>'Eve Online' Studio Acquired By Korean MMO Maker - Slashdot</title>
+ <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
+
+ <meta name="description" content="MAXOMENOS writes: EVE Online developer CCP Games has been acquired by Pearl Abyss, the South Korean studio behind the action-oriented MMORPG Black Desert Online. According to VentureBeat, the deal was worth $425 million and will close in early October. It's a surprise announcement for CCP, which ha...">
+
+ <meta name="twitter:card" content="summary">
+ <meta name="twitter:site" content="@slashdot">
+ <meta name="twitter:domain" content="games.slashdot.org">
+ <meta property="og:url" content="https://games.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1921222/eve-online-studio-acquired-by-korean-mmo-maker">
+
+ <meta property="og:title" content="'Eve Online' Studio Acquired By Korean MMO Maker - Slashdot">
+ <meta property="og:description" content="MAXOMENOS writes: EVE Online developer CCP Games has been acquired by Pearl Abyss, the South Korean studio behind the action-oriented MMORPG Black Desert Online. According to VentureBeat, the deal was worth $425 million and will close in early October. It's a surprise announcement for CCP, which ha...">
+
+
+
+ <meta property="og:image" content="https://a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/business_64.png">
+
+ <meta property="fb:admins" content="100000696822412">
+ <meta property="fb:page_id" content="267995220856">
+
+ <meta name="viewport" content="width=1000, user-scalable=yes, minimum-scale=0, maximum-scale=10.0" />
+ <meta name="apple-mobile-web-app-capable" content="yes">
+ <meta name="apple-mobile-web-app-status-bar-style" content="black">
+
+ <link rel="canonical" href="https://games.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1921222/eve-online-studio-acquired-by-korean-mmo-maker">
+
+ <link rel="alternate" media="only screen and (max-width: 640px)" href="http://m.slashdot.org/story/345538" >
+
+
+ <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" media="screen, projection" href="//a.fsdn.com/sd/classic.ssl.css?8f5016a67a2f2048" >
+ <!--[if IE 8]><link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" media="screen, projection" href="//a.fsdn.com/sd/ie8-classic.ssl.css?8f5016a67a2f2048" ><![endif]-->
+ <!--[if IE 7]><link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" media="screen, projection" href="//a.fsdn.com/sd/ie7-classic.ssl.css?8f5016a67a2f2048" ><![endif]-->
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <!-- -->
+
+
+
+
+
+ <!-- SMACKS: NEW CSS -->
+ <link rel="stylesheet" href="//a.fsdn.com/sd/css/app.css?8f5016a67a2f2048">
+
+ <script type='text/javascript'>
+var _gaq = _gaq || [];
+</script>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<script type="text/javascript" id="pbjs_script" data-dom="https://d3tglifpd8whs6.cloudfront.net" src="https://d3tglifpd8whs6.cloudfront.net/js/prebid/slash-story/slash-story.min.js"></script>
+<script type='text/javascript'>
+ /*global performance */
+ var googletag = window.googletag || {};
+ googletag.cmd = googletag.cmd || [];
+
+ window.Ads_disallowPersonalization = 1;
+ bizx.cmp.ifConsent('all', 'all', function(){
+ window.Ads_disallowPersonalization = 0;
+ }, function(){
+ window.Ads_disallowPersonalization = 1;
+ }, function () {
+ window.bizxPrebid.Ads.initPrebid(window.bizxPrebid.adUnits);
+ });
+</script>
+
+<!-- prep GPT ads -->
+<script type='text/javascript'>
+(function() {
+ function page_type (loc) {
+ /*
+ only four page types:
+ - Story
+ - Poll
+ - Homepage (/ only)
+ - Other (but AdOps wants 'Homepage' again)
+ */
+ var path = loc.pathname;
+ var just_the_root = /^\/?$/.test(path);
+ var story_or_poll = /^\/(story(?=\/)|submission(?=\/)|poll(?=\/|Booth|s\b))/i.exec(path);
+
+ var page_type = just_the_root ? 'homepage'
+ : story_or_poll ? story_or_poll[1]
+ : 'other'
+
+ // exceptions
+ if (page_type.toLowerCase() === 'submission')
+ page_type = 'story'; // submissions are like stories, right?
+ else if (page_type.toLowerCase() === 'other')
+ page_type = 'homepage'; // this one might move out of here
+
+ return page_type;
+ }
+ function page_section (loc) {
+ //var greek = ['alpha', 'beta', 'gamma', 'delta'].join('|');
+ //var hostwise = '^([a-z]+)(?:-(?:'+greek+'))?\\.(?:slashdot\\.org|\\.xb\\.sf\\.net)$';
+ var pathwise = '^/(?:(recent|popular|blog)|stories/([^/]+))';
+ var rootwise = '^\/?$';
+
+ //var hostwisely = new RegExp(hostwise,'i').exec(loc.hostname);
+ var pathwisely = new RegExp(pathwise,'i').exec(loc.pathname);
+ var rootwisely = new RegExp(rootwise,'i').exec(loc.pathname);
+
+ var section = (rootwisely && 'homepage')
+ || (pathwisely && (pathwisely[1] || pathwisely[2]))
+ || ''
+ ;
+
+ return section.replace(/[^_a-z]/ig, '');
+ }
+ function single_size (size) {
+ return '' + size[0] + 'x' + size[1];
+ }
+ function sz_sz (sz) {
+ var str = '';
+ var sizes = [];
+ if (sz[0] instanceof Array) {
+ for (size in sz) {
+ sizes.push(single_size(sz[size]));
+ }
+ return sizes.join(',');
+ } else {
+ return single_size(sz);
+ }
+ }
+
+ function unique_tpc_array(array1,array2) {
+ var j = array1.concat(array2);
+ j.forEach(function (v,i,a) {
+ a[i] = v.replace(/[^_a-z]/ig, '');
+ });
+ return j.filter(function (v,i,a) {
+ return v != '' && a.indexOf(v) === i;
+ });
+ }
+
+ /* LEGEND:
+ - 'sz' = "size"
+ - 'npt' = "no page type" in ad unit name
+ */
+ var tags = {
+ '728x90_A': { 'sz': [[728, 90], [970, 90], [970, 250], [980, 66]] },
+ '728x90_B': { 'sz': [728, 90] },
+ '728x90_C': { 'sz': [728, 90], 'skip': { 'homepage': 1 } },
+ 'HubIcon_200x90_A': { 'sz': [[200, 90], [220, 90]]},
+ 'PowerSwitch_980x66_A': { 'sz': [980, 66], 'skip': { 'homepage': 1 } },
+ 'PollPeel': { 'sz': [200, 90], 'skip': { 'homepage': 1 } },
+ //'VideoWidget_300x250': { 'sz': [300, 250], 'npt': 1 },
+ '300x250_A': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600], [300, 1050]] },
+ '300x250_B': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]] },
+ '300x250_C': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]] },
+ '300x250_D': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]] },
+ 'Pulse_300x600_A': { 'sz': [300, 600] },
+ //'Polls_Detail_300x250_A': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]], 'npt': 1 },
+ //'Poll_300x250_A': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]], 'npt': 1 },
+ //'SD_Story_1x1': { 'sz': [1, 1] },
+ '1x1': { 'sz': [1, 1] }
+ };
+
+ //var network_path = '/41014381/Slashdot/';
+ var network_path = '/41014381/Slashdot/';
+ var tag_name_prefix = 'SD';
+ var tag_name_linkage = '_';
+ var tag_name_pagetype = page_type(location);
+ var tag_topic = page_section(location);
+ if(tag_name_pagetype == 'poll'){
+ tag_name_pagetype = 'Poll';
+ }
+ var before_tag_pagetyped = network_path
+ + tag_name_prefix
+ + tag_name_linkage
+ + tag_name_pagetype
+ + tag_name_linkage
+ ;
+ var before_tag_pagetypeless = network_path
+ + tag_name_prefix
+ + tag_name_linkage
+ /* + tag_name_pagetype */
+ /* + tag_name_linkage */
+ ;
+
+
+ googletag.cmd.push(function() {
+
+ function remove_sticky_top() {
+ setTimeout(function(){
+ $('#div-gpt-ad-728x90_a').parent('div').addClass('adwrap-viewed-banner');
+ $('#div-gpt-ad-728x90_a').addClass('viewableImpression');
+ }, 1000);
+ }
+ function remove_sticky_railad() {
+ setTimeout(function(){
+ $('#slashboxes .adwrap-unviewed').addClass('adwrap-viewed-railad');
+ $('.railad').addClass('viewableImpression');
+ }, 1000);
+ }
+ function viewable_imp (slot) {
+ for(var i in slot) {
+ if(typeof slot[i] !== 'string') continue;
+ switch(slot[i]){
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_728x90_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_story_728x90_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_Poll_728x90_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_728x90_Ref_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_story_728x90_Ref_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_Poll_728x90_Ref_A":
+ remove_sticky_top();
+ break;
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_300x250_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_story_300x250_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_Poll_300x250_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_300x250_Ref_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_story_300x250_Ref_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_Poll_300x250_Ref_A":
+ remove_sticky_railad();
+ break;
+ }
+ //if(slot[i] === "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_728x90_A") remove_sticky_top();
+ //if(slot[i] === "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_300x250_A") remove_sticky_railad();
+ }
+ }
+ function define_me_a_slot (tag) {
+ if (tags[tag].skip && tags[tag].skip[tag_name_pagetype])
+ return;
+ var sandbox_regex = /\.xb\.sf\.net$/i;
+ var full_name = tags[tag].npt // "no page type"
+ ? before_tag_pagetypeless + tag
+ : before_tag_pagetyped + tag
+ ;
+ var div_id = 'div-gpt-ad-' + tag.toLowerCase();
+
+ var service;
+ // extend jQuery and get URL query params
+ jQuery.extend({
+ getQueryParameters : function(str) {
+ return (str || document.location.search).replace(/(^\?)/,'').split("&").map(function(n){
+ return n = n.split("="),this[n[0]] = n[1],this
+ }.bind({}))[0];
+ }
+ });
+
+ var queryParams = $.getQueryParameters();
+
+ if( queryParams.source === 'autorefresh' ) {
+ full_name = full_name.replace(/(\d+x\d+)/,'$1_Ref');
+ //console.log('TAG NAME: ', full_name);
+ }
+
+ service = googletag.defineSlot(
+ full_name
+ , tags[tag].sz
+ , div_id
+ ).addService(googletag.pubads());
+
+ service.setTargeting('sz', tags[tag].sz);
+
+
+ var frontend_tpc = tag_topic.split(",");
+ var backend_tpc = [ "business", "games", "game", "eveonline" ];
+
+ var tpc_final = unique_tpc_array(frontend_tpc, backend_tpc);
+ service.setTargeting('tpc', tpc_final);
+ if (location.hostname.match(sandbox_regex)) {
+ service.setTargeting('test', 'adops');
+ }
+
+ }
+
+ for (tag in tags) {
+ define_me_a_slot(tag, false);
+ }
+ googletag.pubads().addEventListener('impressionViewable', function(event) {
+ viewable_imp(event.slot);
+ });
+
+ googletag.pubads().setTargeting('requestSource', 'GPT');
+ googletag.pubads().setRequestNonPersonalizedAds(window.Ads_disallowPersonalization);
+ googletag.pubads().enableAsyncRendering();
+
+
+ googletag.pubads().collapseEmptyDivs();
+ window.bizxPrebid.SAFEFRAMES = true;
+ bizxPrebid.Ads.pushToGoogle();
+ googletag.enableServices();
+ });
+})();
+</script>
+
+
+
+<!-- CrossPixel -->
+<script type="text/javascript"> try{(function(){ var cb = new Date().getTime(); var s = document.createElement("script"); s.defer = true; s.src = "//tag.crsspxl.com/s1.js?d=2397&cb="+cb; var s0 = document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0]; s0.parentNode.insertBefore(s, s0); })();}catch(e){} </script>
+
+<!-- AdBlock Check -->
+<script>
+var isAdBlockActive = true;
+</script>
+<script async src="//a.fsdn.com/sd/js/scripts/ad.js?8f5016a67a2f2048"></script>
+
+</head>
+<body class="anon firehose ">
+
+
+ <script src="//a.fsdn.com/sd/all-minified.js?8f5016a67a2f2048" type="text/javascript"></script>
+
+
+ <script type="text/javascript">
+(function(){
+var regexp=/\s*(?:\d+|many)\s+more\s*/i;
+
+
+ var auto_more_count = 1;
+
+ function auto_more(){
+ var $more_link = $('#more-experiment a');
+ $more_link.each(function(){
+ var $lastitem = $('#firehoselist>article.fhitem:visible:last');
+ if ( Bounds.intersect(window, $lastitem) ) {
+
+
+ !--auto_more_count && (auto_more=undefined);
+ // don't allow a call till the next paginate gets built and |more_possible|
+ $(document).unbind('scroll', call_auto_more);
+ }
+ });
+ };
+
+ function call_auto_more(){ auto_more && auto_more(); }
+
+
+$('#more-experiment a').
+ live('more-possible', function( event ){
+ var $more_link=$(this);
+ if ( regexp.test($more_link.text()) ) {
+
+ $(document).bind('scroll', call_auto_more);
+ } else {
+ $(document).unbind('scroll', call_auto_more);
+
+ }
+ });
+})();
+</script>
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+ janrain.settings.linkClass = 'janrainEngage';
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+ /* _______________ can edit above this line _______________ */
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+ function isReady() { janrain.ready = true; };
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+ document.addEventListener("DOMContentLoaded", isReady, false);
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+ <script type="text/javascript">
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+ </script>
+
+ <!-- html-header type=current end --><!-- header type=current begin -->
+
+
+
+ <link rel="top" title="News for nerds, stuff that matters" href="//slashdot.org/" >
+<link rel="search" title="Search Slashdot" href="//games.slashdot.org/search.pl">
+<link rel="alternate" title="Slashdot RSS" href="http://rss.slashdot.org/Slashdot/slashdotGames" type="application/rss+xml">
+ <link rel="shortcut icon" href="/favicon.ico" type="image/x-icon">
+
+
+ <div id="top_parent"></div>
+ <a name="topothepage"></a>
+
+ <div class="container">
+ <div class="nav-wrap">
+ <nav class="nav-primary" role="navigation" aria-label="Global Navigation">
+ <h1 class="logo">
+ <a href="//slashdot.org"><span>Slashdot</span></a>
+</h1>
+
+<ul class="nav-site">
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org"><i class="icon-book" title="Stories"></i><span>Stories</span></a></li>
+ <li>
+ <ul class="filter-firehose">
+ <li class="nav-label">Firehose <i class="icon-angle-right"></i></li>
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org/recent">All</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org/popular">Popular</a></li>
+ </ul>
+ </li>
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org/polls"><i class="icon-chart-bar" title="Polls"></i><span>Polls</span></a></li>
+
+ <!--
+ <li><a href="//ask.slashdot.org"><i class="icon-question-circle"></i><span>Ask</span></a></li>
+
+ <li><a href="//events.slashdot.org"><i class="icon-calendar"></i><span>Events</span></a></li>
+ -->
+ <li><a href="http://deals.slashdot.org/?utm_source=slashdot&utm_medium=navbar&utm_campaign=dealshp_1" target="_blank"><i class="sd-mini" title="Deals"></i> <span>Deals</span></a></li>
+</ul>
+<a href="//slashdot.org/submission" class="btn btn-success">Submit</a>
+ </nav>
+ <nav class="nav-user" role="navigation" aria-label="user access and account controls">
+ <form id="search" class="form-inline nav-search-form" method="get" action="//slashdot.org/index2.pl">
+<!-- //games.slashdot.org/index2.pl" -->
+ <div class="form-group">
+ <label class="sr-only" for="sitesearch">Search Slashdot</label>
+ <div class="input-group">
+ <input type="text" id="" class="" name="fhfilter" value="" placeholder="Search">
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <button type="submit" class="btn icon-search"></button>
+</form>
+<ul class="user-access">
+
+
+ <li >
+ <a href="//slashdot.org/my/login" onclick="show_login_box(); return false;"><i class="icon-login"></i><span> Login</span></a>
+
+ </li>
+
+
+
+ <li class="nav-label">or</li>
+
+
+
+ <li >
+ <a href="//slashdot.org/my/newuser" ><i class="icon-user-add"></i><span> Sign up</span></a>
+
+ </li>
+
+
+</ul>
+ </nav>
+ </div>
+ <div class="nav-secondary-wrap">
+ <nav class="nav-secondary" role="secondary-navigation">
+ <ul>
+ <li class="nav-label">Topics: </li>
+ <li><a href="//devices.slashdot.org">Devices</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//build.slashdot.org">Build</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//entertainment.slashdot.org">Entertainment</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//technology.slashdot.org">Technology</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org/?fhfilter=opensource">Open Source</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//science.slashdot.org">Science</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//yro.slashdot.org">YRO</a></li>
+ <!-- <li><a href="//slashdot.org/topics.pl">more...</a></li> -->
+ </ul>
+</nav>
+<nav class="nav-social" role="social navigation">
+ <ul>
+ <li class="nav-label">Follow us:</li>
+ <li><a href="http://rss.slashdot.org/Slashdot/slashdotMain" target="_blank"><i class="icon-rss-squared"></i><span class="sr-only">RSS</span></a></li>
+ <li><a href="http://www.facebook.com/slashdot" target="_blank"><i class="icon-facebook-squared"></i><span class="sr-only">Facebook</span></a></li>
+ <li><a href="https://plus.google.com/112601993642376762846/" target="_blank"><i class="icon-gplus-squared"></i><span class="sr-only">Google+</span></a></li>
+ <li><a href="http://twitter.com/slashdot" target="_blank"><i class="icon-twitter-squared"></i><span class="sr-only">Twitter</span></a></li>
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org/newsletter" target="_blank"><i class="icon-mail-squared"></i><span class="sr-only">Newsletter</span></a></li>
+ </ul>
+</nav>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+
+ <section>
+
+ <div class="message-bar" id="firehose-message-tray">
+ <span class="icon-quote-left"></span>
+ <p>
+
+
+ Follow Slashdot stories on <a href="http://twitter.com/slashdot">Twitter</a>
+
+ </p>
+ </div>
+
+
+ <div id='embbeded_login_modal' class="hide">
+<form action="https://slashdot.org/my/login" method="post" onsubmit="if (global_returnto) { this.returnto.value = global_returnto }" class="embedded"><fieldset style="-webkit-border-radius:10px 10px 0 0;border-radius:10px 10px 0 0;-moz-border-radius:10px 10px 0 0">
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+ <input type="hidden" name="returnto" value="">
+ <input type="hidden" name="op" value="userlogin">
+ <p>
+ <label class="fleft" for="unickname">Nickname:</label>
+ <input type="text" name="unickname" value="">
+ </p>
+ <p>
+ <label class="fleft" for="upasswd">Password:</label>
+ <input type="password" name="upasswd" placeholder="6-1024 characters long">
+ </p>
+ <label class="checkbox"><input type="checkbox" name="login_temp" value="yes"> Public Terminal</label>
+ <br>
+ <hr>
+ <input type="submit" name="userlogin" value="Log In" class="fno"> <a href="//slashdot.org/my/mailpassword" class="btn link" onclick="getModalPrefs('sendPasswdModal', 'Retrieve Password', 1); return false;">Forgot your password?</a>
+</fieldset></form>
+
+<div id="janrainEngageEmbed"></div>
+<div class="actions">
+ <a class="ico close" onclick="hide_login_slider();" href=""><span>Close</span></a>
+</div>
+</div>
+
+
+ <div class="banner-wrapper">
+ <div class="adwrap adwrap-unviewed banner-contain">
+
+ <div id='div-gpt-ad-728x90_a'><script type='text/javascript'>
+googletag.cmd.push(function(){
+googletag.display('div-gpt-ad-728x90_a');});</script></div>
+ <div id='div-gpt-ad-hubicon_200x90_a'><script type='text/javascript'>
+googletag.cmd.push(function(){
+googletag.display('div-gpt-ad-hubicon_200x90_a');});</script></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+
+ <a name="main-articles"></a>
+
+ <!-- header type=current end --><!-- body begin -->
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <style type="text/css">
+menu, menu * {
+ text-decoration:none;
+}
+
+menu[type=context] {
+ display:none;
+ position:absolute;
+ z-index:10000;
+}
+
+menu[type=context]:not(.brief) {
+ background-color:#dfdfdf;
+ margin:0;
+ padding:2px 0.5em;
+ border-style:solid;
+ border-width:1px;
+ border-color:#eeeeee #aaaaaa #aaaaaa #eeeeee;
+ -moz-border-radius-topright:.7em;
+ -webkit-border-top-right-radius: 0.7em 0.7em;
+}
+
+menu.full[type=context] > a.slash-hover:first-child {
+ -moz-border-radius-topright:.6em;
+ -webkit-border-top-right-radius: 0.6em 0.6em;
+}
+
+
+
+menu.brief[type=context] > a {
+ -moz-border-radius:.6em;
+ -webkit-border-radius: 0.6em;
+ color:#ffffff;
+ background-color:#000000;
+}
+
+/*
+span.briefmenu a.tag:not(.datatype) {
+ padding-left:.5em;
+}
+*/
+
+
+
+
+/* #tag-menu a, #feedback-menu a { */
+menu.tag-menu-admin a {
+ display:list-item;
+ list-style:none;
+ text-align:left;
+ font-weight:bold;
+ color:black;
+ padding:0.1em 0.5em;
+ margin:-0.1em -0.5em;
+ cursor:pointer;
+}
+
+
+.tags .edit-bar { position:relative; }
+article aside .share .addthis_toolbox { display:block; width:60px; float:left; }
+article aside.view_mode .share { min-width:120px; padding-top:.5em; }
+#firehose.list article header h2 {padding-left: 20px; !important}
+.novote .vote { display:none; }
+
+.vote > a, .votedup > a, .voteddown > a {
+ display:inline-block;
+ height:22px;
+ width:22px;
+ margin: 2px 10px 0 0;
+ color:rgb(255,255,255);
+ text-decoration:none;
+ line-height:22px;
+ text-align:center;
+ font-weight:bold;
+ font-size:14px;
+ border-width:1px;
+ border-style:solid;
+ border-color:rgba(0,0,0,0.5);
+}
+
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+
+
+
+
+#tag-menu span.var-tag {
+font-weight:normal;
+color:#444444;
+}
+
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+padding:0 .25em 0 .25em;
+font-size:80%;
+-moz-border-radius:.5em;
+-webkit-border-radius:.5em;
+cursor:pointer;
+}
+
+menu.reasons-menu a:hover {
+background:rgb(153,153,153);
+background:-moz-linear-gradient(100% 100% 90deg, rgb(102,102,102), rgb(153,153,153) 70%) repeat scroll 0 0 rgb(102,102,102);
+background-image: -webkit-gradient(linear, 0% 0%, 0% 100%, from(rgb(153,153,153)), to(rgb(102,102,102)));
+color:#fff;
+text-decoration:none;
+font-weignt:normal;
+}
+
+article.fhitem-story menu.reasons-menu a:hover {
+background:#002323 !important;
+background:-moz-linear-gradient(100% 100% 90deg, #002323, #005353 70%) repeat scroll 0 0 #002323 !important;
+background-image: -webkit-gradient(linear, 0% 0%, 0% 100%, from(#005353), to(#002323)) !important;
+}
+
+
+menu.reasons-menu {
+ display:none;
+ margin:0;
+ padding:0;
+}
+
+div.fhitem h3 menu.reasons-menu {
+margin:0.25em 0 0;
+}
+
+div.fhitem h3 menu.reasons-menu a.tag {
+font-size:.8em;
+}
+
+#tag-menu a.slash-hover,
+#feedback-menu a.slash-hover,
+
+.tag-display span.tag:hover,
+.tag-display span.tag.trigger {
+ color:white;
+ background-color:rgb(0, 85, 85);
+}
+
+#tag-menu a.slash-hover span.var-tag {
+ color:#eee;
+}
+
+.tag-entry.default {
+ color:#ccc;
+}
+
+.brief .nix {
+ margin-top:-1.35em;
+ margin-left:0px;
+ margin-top:-1.15em;
+ text-decoration:none;
+ line-height:1.35em;
+ padding:0 2px;
+ -moz-border-radius:.6em 0 0 .6em;
+ -webkit-border-radius:.6em 0 0 .6em;
+ -o-border-radius:.6em 0 0 .6em;
+ border-radius:.6em 0 0 .6em;
+ color:#fff !important;
+ background:transparent !important;
+}
+
+.brief .nix:hover {
+ background:rgb(153,153,153) !important;
+ background:-moz-linear-gradient(100% 100% 90deg, rgb(102,102,102), rgb(153,153,153) 70%) repeat scroll 0 0 rgb(102,102,102) !important;
+ background-image: -webkit-gradient(linear, 0% 0%, 0% 100%, from(rgb(153,153,153)), to(rgb(102,102,102))) !important;
+}
+
+</style>
+
+<menu id="nix-reasons" style="display:none">
+ <a class="tag">binspam</a><a class="tag">dupe</a><a class="tag">notthebest</a><a class="tag">offtopic</a><a class="tag">slownewsday</a><a class="tag">stale</a><a class="tag">stupid</a>
+</menu>
+<menu id="nod-reasons" style="display:none">
+ <a class="tag">fresh</a><a class="tag">funny</a><a class="tag">insightful</a><a class="tag">interesting</a><a class="tag">maybe</a>
+</menu>
+<menu id="comment-nix-reasons" style="display:none">
+ <a class="tag">offtopic</a><a class="tag">flamebait</a><a class="tag">troll</a><a class="tag">redundant</a><a class="tag">overrated</a>
+</menu>
+<menu id="comment-nod-reasons" style="display:none">
+ <a class="tag">insightful</a><a class="tag">interesting</a><a class="tag">informative</a><a class="tag">funny</a><a class="tag">underrated</a>
+</menu>
+
+<menu id="tag-nod-reasons" style="display:none">
+ <a class="tag">descriptive</a>
+</menu>
+<menu id="feedback-menu" class="tag-menu-admin" type="context">
+ <a class="tag">typo</a><a class="tag">dupe</a><a class="tag">error</a>
+</menu>
+<menu id="tag-menu" class="tag-menu-admin none" type="context">
+
+<!-- <a data-op="!" class="nix">!<span class="var-tag hide"></span></a>-->
+
+</menu>
+
+<script type="text/javascript">
+$(function(){
+var $CURRENT_MENU, $TAG_MENU=$('#tag-menu'), NOTNOT=/^!!/, IE7=/^7\.0/, TAG_PREFIX=/^\/tag\//;
+
+function get_tag_name( $tag ){
+ return ($tag.attr('href') || '').replace(TAG_PREFIX, '') || $tag.text().toLowerCase();
+}
+
+function trigger_menu( e, selector, $menu, menu_content ){
+ var $target=$(original_target(e, selector)), in_use=$target.is('.trigger');
+ if ( $CURRENT_MENU ) {
+ $CURRENT_MENU.menu('cancel', e);
+ $CURRENT_MENU = null;
+ }
+
+ if ( !in_use ) {
+ menu_content && $menu.stop(true, true).hide().html(menu_content);
+ ($CURRENT_MENU=$menu).menu('context', e);
+ }
+ return !in_use;
+}
+
+function open_menu( trigger, $menu ){
+ var $trigger=$(trigger), $fhitem=$trigger.closest('.fhitem');
+ $fhitem.length && user_intent('interest', $fhitem[0]);
+
+ $menu.appendTo(document.body).css({ opacity:0 }).show();
+
+ var right = $fhitem.offset().left + $fhitem.width(),
+ global = $trigger.offset(),
+ local = $menu.offsetParent().offset();
+
+ // Ugly IE position hack required:
+ $.browser.msie && IE7.test($.browser.version) && (local.top = 0);
+
+ // pin the menu (horizontally) on-screen
+ global.left = Math.min(global.left, right-$menu.width());
+
+ $trigger.addClass('trigger');
+ $menu.css({
+ position: 'absolute',
+ top: global.top - local.top + $trigger.height(),
+ left: global.left - local.left,
+ opacity: 1
+ });
+}
+
+function close_menu( trigger, $menu ){
+ $menu.hide();
+ $(trigger).removeClass('trigger');
+ ($CURRENT_MENU===$menu) && ($CURRENT_MENU=false);
+}
+
+/* T2 tag context-menu */
+var $TAG_MENU=$('#tag-menu'), NOTNOT=/^!!/;
+
+
+ var user_is_admin = 0;
+
+
+
+$('a[rel=tag]').live('mousedown',function(ea){
+ window.open(this.href);
+ return false;
+})
+
+$('.tag-bar .disagree').live('mousedown',function(ee){
+ var fhitem = $(original_target(ee)).closest('.fhitem')[0],
+ command = ('!' + $(original_target(ee)).attr("data-tag")).replace(NOTNOT, '');
+ try { Tags.submit(fhitem, command); } catch ( err ) { }
+ return false;
+})
+
+
+
+$('a[rel=tag]').
+ live('mousedown', function( e ){
+
+ return true;
+
+
+ }).
+ live('click', function( e ){
+ if ( !logged_in ) {
+ var target = original_target(e),
+ tag = $(target).text();
+ addfhfilter(tag);
+ }
+ e.preventDefault();
+ return false;
+ });
+
+$TAG_MENU.menu({
+ cssNamespace: 'slash',
+ liveTriggers: true,
+ clickDuration: 300,
+
+ start: function( e, ui ){
+ var $tag = $(ui.trigger),
+ tag = get_tag_name($tag),
+ context = firehose_settings && firehose_settings.viewtitle;
+
+ // Insert the tagname into the menu items where needed.
+ $TAG_MENU.find('span.var-tag').text(tag);
+ $TAG_MENU.find('a.nix').attr('title','not ' + tag);
+
+
+ // non-admins may only delete their own tags
+ $TAG_MENU.find('a:[data-op="-"]').toggle($tag.is('.my'));
+
+
+ // *tagname* in *viewtitle*
+ $TAG_MENU.find('a:[data-op="="]').toggle(!!context);
+ context && $TAG_MENU.find('span.var-view').text(context);
+
+ open_menu($tag, $TAG_MENU);
+ },
+
+ select: function( e, ui ){
+ var $tag = $(ui.trigger),
+ tag = get_tag_name($tag),
+ op = $(ui.select).attr('data-op'),
+ fhitem,
+ command;
+
+ // Global for positioning other things.
+ $related_trigger = $tag;
+
+ switch ( op ) {
+ case '=':
+ addfhfilter(tag);
+ break;
+
+ default:
+ fhitem = $tag.closest('.fhitem')[0];
+ command = (op + tag).replace(NOTNOT, '');
+ try { Tags.submit(fhitem, command); } catch ( err ) { }
+ break;
+ }
+ },
+
+ stop: function( e, ui ){ close_menu(ui.trigger, $TAG_MENU); }
+});
+
+
+
+
+/* T2 feedback context-menu */
+
+
+
+/* T2 datatype context-menu (admin-only) */
+
+
+
+
+
+
+});
+</script>
+
+
+
+<!-- SMACKS: BEGIN STORY CONTENT -->
+<div class="container">
+ <!--SMACKS: BEGING CENTER COLUMN -->
+ <div class="main-wrap has-rail-right">
+ <div class="main-content">
+ <div class="grid_24 a2 ">
+ </div>
+ <div id="firehose" class="nothumbs">
+ <div id="firehoselist" class="fhroot fleft grid_24">
+ <div id="announcement">
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+ <span id="title-102639448" class="story-title"> <a href="//games.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1921222/eve-online-studio-acquired-by-korean-mmo-maker">'Eve Online' Studio Acquired By Korean MMO Maker</a> <span class=" no extlnk"><a class="story-sourcelnk" href="https://www.engadget.com/2018/09/06/eve-online-pearl-abyss-ccp-games/" title="External link - https://www.engadget.com/2018/09/06/eve-online-pearl-abyss-ccp-games/" target="_blank"> (engadget.com) </a></span></span>
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+ msmash
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+ <time id="fhtime-102639448" datetime="on Thursday September 06, 2018 @03:22PM">on Thursday September 06, 2018 @03:22PM</time>
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+ <a href="/~MAXOMENOS">MAXOMENOS</a> writes: <i> <i>EVE Online</i> developer CCP Games <a href="https://www.ccpgames.com/news/2018/black-desert-online-creators-pearl-abyss-to-acquire-ccp-games-makers-of-eve">has been acquired by Pearl Abyss</a>, the South Korean studio behind the action-oriented MMORPG Black Desert Online. According to <a href="https://venturebeat.com/2018/09/06/black-desert-online-creator-pearl-abyss-acquires-eve-online-maker-ccp-games-for-425-million/">VentureBeat</a>, the deal was worth $425 million and will close in early October. It's a surprise announcement for CCP, which has long operated as an independent developer. Eve Online isn't the biggest MMORPG on the market, but it has maintained a steady and loyal userbase through continuous updates and a well-timed switch to a hybrid premium and free-to-play model. The 15-year-old game is unique, too, with its large-scale battles and notoriously complex economic and political systems.</i><br>
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+ <ul id="commentlisting" class="d2">
+ <li id="tree_57265476" class="comment full contain"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265476" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265476" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265476" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265476" name="comment_link_57265476" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&cid=57265476" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265476)" >RIP Eve</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265476" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265476); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>3</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~spiritplumber">spiritplumber</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~spiritplumber">( 1944222 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265476">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @03:24PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&cid=57265476">#57265476</a>)
+ <small><a href="http://www.robots-everywhere.com/" title="http://www.robots-everywhere.com/" class="user_homepage_display">Homepage</a> </small>
+</span>
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+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265476">Now watch the new owners completely misunderstand the userbase's culture and wreck a good thing.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265476">
+<span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57265476" class="btn link" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&op=Reply&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265476" onclick="D2.replyTo(57265476); return false;">Reply to This</a> <a href="#" class="comment_share_toggle btn link">Share</a>
+ <div class="comment_share sharethis-0 hide"><span class="au"></span>
+ <a class="janrain t" href="#" data-provider="twitter" data-message="RIP Eve by spiritplumber @slashdot" data-url="https://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&cid=57265476" data-title="RIP Eve">twitter</a>
+ <a class="janrain f" href="#" data-provider="facebook" data-message="RIP Eve by spiritplumber" data-url="https://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&cid=57265476" data-title="RIP Eve">facebook</a>
+ <a class="janrain l" href="#" data-provider="linkedin" data-message="RIP Eve by spiritplumber" data-url="https://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&cid=57265476" data-title="RIP Eve">linkedin</a>
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+<div id="replyto_57265476"></div>
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+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265606" name="comment_link_57265606" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&cid=57265606" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265606)" >Re:</a>
+
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~sinij">sinij</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~sinij">( 911942 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265606"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265606">If someone could make EVE more grindy, it would be a Korean MMO maker. I don't see them misunderstanding that aspect, as they invented Korean Grinder.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265606">
+
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+<div id="comment_status_57265644" class="commentstatus"></div>
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+ <div id="comment_top_57265644" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265644" name="comment_link_57265644" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&cid=57265644" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265644)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265644" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265644); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>3</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~duke_cheetah2003">duke_cheetah2003</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~duke_cheetah2003">( 862933 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265644"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265644"><p><div class="quote"><p>Now watch the new owners completely misunderstand the userbase's culture and wreck a good thing.</p></div><p>CCP already did that years ago.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265644">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
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+</ul>
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+ <li id="hiddens_57265660" class="hide"></li>
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+<div id="comment_status_57265694" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265694" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265694" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265694" name="comment_link_57265694" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&cid=57265694" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265694)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265694" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265694); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>1</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span>Anonymous Coward</span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265694"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265694"><p>Son, if Koreans will do anything it's inject sexy alien women and bikini-space-armor into it.<br>East Asia never suffered the retardation of puritanism, which is unique to the Western world owing to Abrahamic doctrine, to develop Gymnophobia and Genophobia, so they don't care about the Church-Feminist anti-sexualization offense alliance. The only exception are the "Communist" governments there.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265694">
+
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+</ul>
+
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+<div id="comment_status_57266068" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266068" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266068" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266068" name="comment_link_57266068" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&cid=57266068" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266068)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266068" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266068); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~jeff4747">jeff4747</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~jeff4747">( 256583 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266068"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266068"><p>It's almost like you don't know there's already Korean and Chinese alliances in Eve.......and they're not doing all that well. I'm sure FRT will stop feeding Keepstars soon.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266068">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
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+
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+ <li id="hiddens_57266068" class="hide"></li>
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+</li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266152" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
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+</ul>
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+<div id="comment_57266674" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266674" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266674" name="comment_link_57266674" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&cid=57266674" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266674)" >Re:</a>
+
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+ <span id="comment_score_57266674" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266674); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>3</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~St.Creed">St.Creed</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~St.Creed">( 853824 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266674"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266674"><p>It was bad in the beta and never actually recovered from some pretty bad development choices. Have they discovered parallel processing yet? And version management? Okay, I guess the last one was a bit mean. They must have discovered Git by now.</p><p>But seriously, the game is an unstructured mess. Played it for a while, flew a Machariel and did incursions, level 4 missions etc. but after a while it got boring. May pick it up again though.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266674">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
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+
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+
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+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265530" name="comment_link_57265530" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&cid=57265530" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265530)" >Not Good News</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265530" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265530); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>4</a>, Interesting)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Kunedog">Kunedog</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Kunedog">( 1033226 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265530">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @03:36PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&cid=57265530">#57265530</a>)
+ <small> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265530">Shamus Young has a series on Black Desert, explaining how shockingly aggressive, expensive and game-ruining he found the microtransactions system to be, even if you're familiar with the worst of the American systems. There's manadatory PvP and deliberately cramped inventory space but the "cash shop" can always make things better (i.e. playable).<br> <br>
+
+I'd be worried if I were an EVE Online fan.<br> <br>
+
+<a href="https://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=42507" title="shamusyoung.com">https://www.shamusyoung.com/tw...</a> [shamusyoung.com]<p><div class="quote"><p>I see all the default clothes are bland and I need to pay real money for a cool outfit. Aesthetics are important to me. (Which is why I spend so much time on sculpting my character.) So I really don’t want to spend the rest of my time looking at these blando outfits. Sigh. Fine. What’s a pretend suit of armor cost these days? Three bucks? Five bucks?<br> <br>
+
+FORTY SIX AMERICAN DOLLARS? ARE YOU TRYING TO START A FIGHT?</p></div><p><div class="quote"><p>The cheap outfits can be had for $22. They also offer ladies underwear sets for just $7, if you want to run around in your underpants. (I don’t, thanks.)<br> <br>
+
+(They also offer similar options for male characters. I was tempted to get the outfit that would let my kung-fu guy go shirtless, because he’s a kung-fu dude. But all of the choices looked like modern-day boxers. You can’t just wear baggy pants with no shirt.)<br> <br>
+
+Would you like to dye that super-expensive outfit you just bought? Or any other outfit? That will set you back another $10. And that’s somehow a rental. Your ten bucks gets you a month of being allowed to have dyed clothes. After the month is up, your clothes revert to their original colors and you gotta fork over another $10.</p></div><p><div class="quote"><p>Do you enjoy wheeling and dealing at the auction house in other games, but the egregious 35% tax on all your sales is making it impossible for you to have fun or turn a profit? Pay fifteen real-world dollars and the tax will go down to the normal 5%. (For one month.)<br> <br>
+
+Everything is exorbitantly priced like this. It’s so outrageously expensive that I get immediately pissed off. It’s not even about the money, it’s about the sheer audacity of the seller to ask this much[2] for what should be trivial virtual goods. Even if you’re a millionaire, you’re still likely to get offended if someone tries to sell you a stick of ordinary gum for five bucks.</p></div></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265530">
+<span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57265530" class="btn link" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&op=Reply&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265530" onclick="D2.replyTo(57265530); return false;">Reply to This</a> <a href="#" class="comment_share_toggle btn link">Share</a>
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+</ul>
+
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+<div id="comment_status_57265666" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265666" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265666" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265666" name="comment_link_57265666" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&cid=57265666" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265666)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265666" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265666); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>3</a>, Interesting)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span>Anonymous Coward</span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265666"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265666"><p><div class="quote"><p>Everything is exorbitantly priced like this. It’s so outrageously expensive that I get immediately pissed off. It’s not even about the money, it’s about the sheer audacity of the seller to ask this much for what should be trivial virtual goods. Even if you’re a millionaire, you’re still likely to get offended if someone tries to sell you a stick of ordinary gum for five bucks.</p></div><p>Sometimes, I thought Stallman was being a pendant for gripes about terminology like "intellectual property".</p><p>Now I realize he was exactly right.</p><p>This guy uses the words "virtual goods", like it's something he'll actually own. Dollars to donuts, the EULA and TOS says these 'virtual goods' are nothing more than bits on their server, you don't own a single bit of it, and they do whatever they like, and fuck you we're keeping your money if you don't like it.</p><p>Seriously, this should be a legal term. If your company<span class="substr"> </span></p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265666">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265666"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265666">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265666" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57265666"><li id="tree_57265690" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265690" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265690" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265690"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265690">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265690" class="hide"></li>
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+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265856"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265856">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265856" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57265856"><li id="tree_57266086" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266086" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266086" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266086" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266086" name="comment_link_57266086" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&cid=57266086" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266086)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266086" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266086); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Calydor">Calydor</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Calydor">( 739835 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266086"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266086"><p>Remember when they wanted to make players PAY for mods for Skyrim?</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266086">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
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+
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+ <li id="hiddens_57267012" class="hide"></li>
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+</ul>
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+<div id="comment_status_57266836" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266836" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266836"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266836">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266836" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267216" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267216" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267216" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267216" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267216" name="comment_link_57267216" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&cid=57267216" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267216)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267216" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267216); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~JustAnotherOldGuy">JustAnotherOldGuy</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~JustAnotherOldGuy">( 4145623 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267216"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267216"><p>$46 for a suit of armor?</p><p>If I ever had any interest in playing Eve*, this pricing would instantly cure me of that notion.</p><p>*Which I don't, but still...</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267216">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267216"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267216">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267216" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57265530"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265530">3 replies</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57265536" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265536" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265536" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265536" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265536" name="comment_link_57265536" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&cid=57265536" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265536)" >Eve + Korean MMO + Pay To Win</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265536" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265536); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Crashmarik">Crashmarik</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Crashmarik">( 635988 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265536"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265536"><p>If that isn't a match made in hell I don't know what is.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265536">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265536"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265536">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265536" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
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+<div id="comment_57265650" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265650"></div>
+
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+ <li id="hiddens_57265650" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
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+<div id="comment_status_57265684" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265684" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265684" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265684" name="comment_link_57265684" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&cid=57265684" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265684)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265684" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265684); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~MAXOMENOS">MAXOMENOS</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~MAXOMENOS">( 9802 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265684"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265684">....if they can only get out of beta......</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265684">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265684"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265684">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265684" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
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+<div id="comment_status_57265756" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265756" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265756" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265756" name="comment_link_57265756" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&cid=57265756" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265756)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265756" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265756); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~blackomegax">blackomegax</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~blackomegax">( 807080 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265756"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265756">The current beta is 3 moons, 2 stations, and a shitty framework of a "game" that runs at 10fps on a GTX1060 at low settings and looks 5x worse than games like doom or E:D.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265756">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265756"></div>
+
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+</ul>
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+ <div id="comment_top_57266680" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266680" name="comment_link_57266680" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&cid=57266680" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266680)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266680" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266680); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~St.Creed">St.Creed</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~St.Creed">( 853824 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266680"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266680"><p>They're not even in Alpha. They call it that, but what it actually is, is "perpetual development hell". It doesn't have a version number but if it had, it would be 666.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266680">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
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+ <li id="hiddens_57267114" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57266680"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266680">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li></ul></li><li id="hidestring_57265684"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265684">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57265652" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
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+
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+
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+<div id="comment_status_57265796" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265796" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265796" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265796" name="comment_link_57265796" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&cid=57265796" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265796)" >Why didn't microsoft acquire it?</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265796" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265796); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>3</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~xxxJonBoyxxx">xxxJonBoyxxx</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~xxxJonBoyxxx">( 565205 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265796">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @04:27PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&cid=57265796">#57265796</a>)
+ <small> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265796">Since its unofficial tagline is, ya know, "spreadsheet online"</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265796">
+<span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57265796" class="btn link" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&op=Reply&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265796" onclick="D2.replyTo(57265796); return false;">Reply to This</a> <a href="#" class="comment_share_toggle btn link">Share</a>
+ <div class="comment_share sharethis-0 hide"><span class="au"></span>
+ <a class="janrain t" href="#" data-provider="twitter" data-message="Why didn't microsoft acquire it? by xxxJonBoyxxx @slashdot" data-url="https://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&cid=57265796" data-title="Why didn't microsoft acquire it?">twitter</a>
+ <a class="janrain f" href="#" data-provider="facebook" data-message="Why didn't microsoft acquire it? by xxxJonBoyxxx" data-url="https://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&cid=57265796" data-title="Why didn't microsoft acquire it?">facebook</a>
+ <a class="janrain l" href="#" data-provider="linkedin" data-message="Why didn't microsoft acquire it? by xxxJonBoyxxx" data-url="https://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&cid=57265796" data-title="Why didn't microsoft acquire it?">linkedin</a>
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+ </div>
+ <span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57265796" title="Flag this comment as Inappropriate" class="ui-icon flag fright" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&op=flag&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265796" onclick="return false;">Flag as Inappropriate</a>
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265796"></div>
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+</ul>
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+<ul id="commtree_57265796"><li id="tree_57266538" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
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+<div id="comment_57266538" class="cw">
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+
+<div id="replyto_57266538"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266538">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266538" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267212" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267212" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267212" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267212" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267212" name="comment_link_57267212" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&cid=57267212" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267212)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267212" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267212); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~JustAnotherOldGuy">JustAnotherOldGuy</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~JustAnotherOldGuy">( 4145623 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267212"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267212"><p>It's also known as "Spreadsheet Simulator".</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267212">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267212"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267212">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267212" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267438" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267438" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267438" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267438" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267438" name="comment_link_57267438" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&cid=57267438" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267438)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267438" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267438); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~meglon">meglon</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~meglon">( 1001833 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267438"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267438">But...it's a really pretty spreadsheet.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267438">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267438"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267438">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267438" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57265796"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265796">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57265802" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265802" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265802" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265802"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265802">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265802" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57265802"><li id="tree_57265936" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265936" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265936" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265936" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265936" name="comment_link_57265936" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&cid=57265936" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265936)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265936" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265936); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~ctilsie242">ctilsie242</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~ctilsie242">( 4841247 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265936"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265936"><p>Makes me wonder too. I wonder if White Wolf would be sold off (likely) or spun off (unlikely, but would be nicer). My fear is that it gets tossed to some big company, and the IP completely shelved, never to see the light of day again, similar to how EA has done with a lot of Origin IP.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265936">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265936"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265936">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265936" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57265936"><li id="tree_57266456" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266456" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266456" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266456"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266456">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266456" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57265936"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265936">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266072" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266072" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266072" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266072" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266072" name="comment_link_57266072" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&cid=57266072" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266072)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266072" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266072); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~jeff4747">jeff4747</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~jeff4747">( 256583 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266072"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266072"><p>CCP was making a World of Darkness MMO, but canceled the project a few years ago. I think they sold the IP.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266072">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266072"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266072">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266072" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li></ul></li><li id="tree_57265904" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265904" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265904" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265904" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265904" name="comment_link_57265904" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&cid=57265904" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265904)" >Only half a billion?</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265904" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265904); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~beheaderaswp">beheaderaswp</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~beheaderaswp">( 549877 )</a></span></a> <a href="/faq/subscriptions.shtml#subscription_other_advantages">*</a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265904"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265904"><p>My god... that number is kinda high...</p><p>That aside... this new owner will just accentuate the problem areas of Eve that kept it from truly meeting it's potential.</p><p>As it is, it's already a griefing sandbox with little wiggle room for anything except PVP and/or massive corporate/alliance industry or fleet ops. When it could be far more balanced and appeal to a larger player base.</p><p>Pushing it further into "gang warfare" style griefing will eventually make the player base smaller.</p><p>I stopped playing in 2016. So I play<span class="substr"> </span></p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265904">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265904"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265904">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265904" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57265904"><li id="tree_57265964" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
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+<div id="comment_57265964" class="cw">
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+
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+
+<ul id="group_57265964">
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+</ul>
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+<div id="comment_status_57266004" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266004" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266004"></div>
+
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+ <li id="hiddens_57266004" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266096" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266096" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266096" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266096" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266096" name="comment_link_57266096" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&cid=57266096" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266096)" >Re:</a>
+
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+ <span id="comment_score_57266096" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266096); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>3</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Luckyo">Luckyo</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Luckyo">( 1726890 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266096"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266096"><p>Your description of events is the exact opposite of your conclusion. It sounds like EVE has in fact achieved greatness, because the process you describe functions exactly like real world functions on macro level.</p><p>The fact that they apparently managed to recreated the world on macro level in a game through long standing player interactions in less than two decades is mind blowingly amazing.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266096">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266096"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266096">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266096" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266096"><li id="tree_57266694" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266694" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266694" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266694" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266694" name="comment_link_57266694" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&cid=57266694" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266694)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266694" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266694); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~St.Creed">St.Creed</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~St.Creed">( 853824 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266694"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266694"><p>And indeed, a subject of economic studies. Pretty brilliant work in that respect. Whether it's successful as an enjoyable game is something else entirely.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266694">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266694"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266694">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266694" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266694"><li id="tree_57267018" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267018" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267018" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267018" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267018" name="comment_link_57267018" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&cid=57267018" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267018)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267018" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267018); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Luckyo">Luckyo</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Luckyo">( 1726890 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267018"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267018"><p>Not economic. Political. This is literally the core tenets of concept of sovereignty. Economy is just a part of the picture here.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267018">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267018"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267018">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267018" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li></ul></li></ul></li><li id="hidestring_57265904"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265904">2 replies</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266064" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266064" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266064" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266064" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266064" name="comment_link_57266064" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&cid=57266064" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266064)" >Eve Online New addon will contain loot boxes</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266064" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266064); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Cito">Cito</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Cito">( 1725214 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266064"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266064"><p>No more expansion packs but eve online will offer season passes at 4 different tier prices; standard, deluxe edition, legacy and ultimate edition.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266064">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266064"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266064">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266064" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266064"><li id="tree_57266690" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266690" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266690" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266690"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266690">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266690" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57266064"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266064">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57267204" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267204" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267204" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267204" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267204" name="comment_link_57267204" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&cid=57267204" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267204)" >Also known as</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267204" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267204); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~JustAnotherOldGuy">JustAnotherOldGuy</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~JustAnotherOldGuy">( 4145623 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267204"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267204"><p>"Eve Online", also affectionately known as "Spreadsheet Simulator".</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267204">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267204"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267204">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267204" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267452" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267452" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267452" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267452" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267452" name="comment_link_57267452" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580362&cid=57267452" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267452)" >made me laugh</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267452" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267452); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~meglon">meglon</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~meglon">( 1001833 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267452"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267452"><p><div class="quote"><p>Eve Online isn't the biggest MMORPG on the market</p></div><p>
+In other news: water is wet, and the sky is blue.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267452">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
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+
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+ <!-- 1x1 story page -->
+ <div id='div-gpt-ad-1x1'><script type='text/javascript'>
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+
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+ <script type="text/javascript">
+ if (!window.is_euro_union) {
+ window._taboola = window._taboola || [];
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+
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+ <!-- footer type=current end -->
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+
+ <!DOCTYPE html>
+
+ <html lang="en">
+ <head>
+ <!-- Render IE9 -->
+ <meta http-equiv="X-UA-Compatible" content="IE=edge,chrome=1">
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+<script src="https://a.fsdn.com/con/js/sftheme/cmp.js"></script>
+<script src="https://slashdot.org/country.js"></script>
+<script type='text/javascript'>
+if (window.is_euro_union) {
+ bizx.cmp.init({
+ // to test: 'Display UI': 'always',
+ 'Publisher Name': 'Slashdot',
+ 'Publisher Logo': 'https://a.fsdn.com/sd/sdlogo.svg',
+ 'Consent Scope': 'global group',
+ 'Consent Scope Group URL': 'https://slashdot.org/gdpr-cookies.pl',
+ });
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+<link rel="stylesheet" href="//a.fsdn.com/con/css/sftheme/sandiego/cmp.css" type="text/css">
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+ background-color: #016765;
+}
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+ })(window,document,'script','https://www.stack-sonar.com/ping.js','stackSonar');
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+ pageload.content_ready_time = pageload.content_ready - pageload.before_content;
+ pageload.script_ready_time = pageload.after_readycode - pageload.content_ready;
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+ <meta http-equiv="X-UA-Compatible" content="IE=edge,chrome=1">
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+ <title>Valve Explains How It Decides Who's a 'Straight Up Troll' Publishing Video Games On Steam - Slashdot</title>
+ <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
+
+ <meta name="description" content="An anonymous reader quotes a report from Motherboard: Wednesday, Valve, the company that operates the huge online video game store Steam, shared more details about how it plans to control and moderate the ever-increasing number of games published on its platform. In the post published Wednesday, Val...">
+
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+ <meta property="og:url" content="https://games.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2146237/valve-explains-how-it-decides-whos-a-straight-up-troll-publishing-video-games-on-steam">
+
+ <meta property="og:title" content="Valve Explains How It Decides Who's a 'Straight Up Troll' Publishing Video Games On Steam - Slashdot">
+ <meta property="og:description" content="An anonymous reader quotes a report from Motherboard: Wednesday, Valve, the company that operates the huge online video game store Steam, shared more details about how it plans to control and moderate the ever-increasing number of games published on its platform. In the post published Wednesday, Val...">
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+ <meta name="apple-mobile-web-app-capable" content="yes">
+ <meta name="apple-mobile-web-app-status-bar-style" content="black">
+
+ <link rel="canonical" href="https://games.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2146237/valve-explains-how-it-decides-whos-a-straight-up-troll-publishing-video-games-on-steam">
+
+ <link rel="alternate" media="only screen and (max-width: 640px)" href="http://m.slashdot.org/story/345552" >
+
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+ <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" media="screen, projection" href="//a.fsdn.com/sd/classic.ssl.css?8f5016a67a2f2048" >
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+ bizx.cmp.ifConsent('all', 'all', function(){
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+ }, function(){
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+ }, function () {
+ window.bizxPrebid.Ads.initPrebid(window.bizxPrebid.adUnits);
+ });
+</script>
+
+<!-- prep GPT ads -->
+<script type='text/javascript'>
+(function() {
+ function page_type (loc) {
+ /*
+ only four page types:
+ - Story
+ - Poll
+ - Homepage (/ only)
+ - Other (but AdOps wants 'Homepage' again)
+ */
+ var path = loc.pathname;
+ var just_the_root = /^\/?$/.test(path);
+ var story_or_poll = /^\/(story(?=\/)|submission(?=\/)|poll(?=\/|Booth|s\b))/i.exec(path);
+
+ var page_type = just_the_root ? 'homepage'
+ : story_or_poll ? story_or_poll[1]
+ : 'other'
+
+ // exceptions
+ if (page_type.toLowerCase() === 'submission')
+ page_type = 'story'; // submissions are like stories, right?
+ else if (page_type.toLowerCase() === 'other')
+ page_type = 'homepage'; // this one might move out of here
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+ return page_type;
+ }
+ function page_section (loc) {
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+ var pathwise = '^/(?:(recent|popular|blog)|stories/([^/]+))';
+ var rootwise = '^\/?$';
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+ } else {
+ return single_size(sz);
+ }
+ }
+
+ function unique_tpc_array(array1,array2) {
+ var j = array1.concat(array2);
+ j.forEach(function (v,i,a) {
+ a[i] = v.replace(/[^_a-z]/ig, '');
+ });
+ return j.filter(function (v,i,a) {
+ return v != '' && a.indexOf(v) === i;
+ });
+ }
+
+ /* LEGEND:
+ - 'sz' = "size"
+ - 'npt' = "no page type" in ad unit name
+ */
+ var tags = {
+ '728x90_A': { 'sz': [[728, 90], [970, 90], [970, 250], [980, 66]] },
+ '728x90_B': { 'sz': [728, 90] },
+ '728x90_C': { 'sz': [728, 90], 'skip': { 'homepage': 1 } },
+ 'HubIcon_200x90_A': { 'sz': [[200, 90], [220, 90]]},
+ 'PowerSwitch_980x66_A': { 'sz': [980, 66], 'skip': { 'homepage': 1 } },
+ 'PollPeel': { 'sz': [200, 90], 'skip': { 'homepage': 1 } },
+ //'VideoWidget_300x250': { 'sz': [300, 250], 'npt': 1 },
+ '300x250_A': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600], [300, 1050]] },
+ '300x250_B': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]] },
+ '300x250_C': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]] },
+ '300x250_D': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]] },
+ 'Pulse_300x600_A': { 'sz': [300, 600] },
+ //'Polls_Detail_300x250_A': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]], 'npt': 1 },
+ //'Poll_300x250_A': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]], 'npt': 1 },
+ //'SD_Story_1x1': { 'sz': [1, 1] },
+ '1x1': { 'sz': [1, 1] }
+ };
+
+ //var network_path = '/41014381/Slashdot/';
+ var network_path = '/41014381/Slashdot/';
+ var tag_name_prefix = 'SD';
+ var tag_name_linkage = '_';
+ var tag_name_pagetype = page_type(location);
+ var tag_topic = page_section(location);
+ if(tag_name_pagetype == 'poll'){
+ tag_name_pagetype = 'Poll';
+ }
+ var before_tag_pagetyped = network_path
+ + tag_name_prefix
+ + tag_name_linkage
+ + tag_name_pagetype
+ + tag_name_linkage
+ ;
+ var before_tag_pagetypeless = network_path
+ + tag_name_prefix
+ + tag_name_linkage
+ /* + tag_name_pagetype */
+ /* + tag_name_linkage */
+ ;
+
+
+ googletag.cmd.push(function() {
+
+ function remove_sticky_top() {
+ setTimeout(function(){
+ $('#div-gpt-ad-728x90_a').parent('div').addClass('adwrap-viewed-banner');
+ $('#div-gpt-ad-728x90_a').addClass('viewableImpression');
+ }, 1000);
+ }
+ function remove_sticky_railad() {
+ setTimeout(function(){
+ $('#slashboxes .adwrap-unviewed').addClass('adwrap-viewed-railad');
+ $('.railad').addClass('viewableImpression');
+ }, 1000);
+ }
+ function viewable_imp (slot) {
+ for(var i in slot) {
+ if(typeof slot[i] !== 'string') continue;
+ switch(slot[i]){
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_728x90_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_story_728x90_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_Poll_728x90_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_728x90_Ref_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_story_728x90_Ref_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_Poll_728x90_Ref_A":
+ remove_sticky_top();
+ break;
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_300x250_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_story_300x250_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_Poll_300x250_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_300x250_Ref_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_story_300x250_Ref_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_Poll_300x250_Ref_A":
+ remove_sticky_railad();
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+ <li >
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+ <li><a href="//devices.slashdot.org">Devices</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//build.slashdot.org">Build</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//entertainment.slashdot.org">Entertainment</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//technology.slashdot.org">Technology</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org/?fhfilter=opensource">Open Source</a></li>
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+ <li><a href="//yro.slashdot.org">YRO</a></li>
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+ <li><a href="http://rss.slashdot.org/Slashdot/slashdotMain" target="_blank"><i class="icon-rss-squared"></i><span class="sr-only">RSS</span></a></li>
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+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org/newsletter" target="_blank"><i class="icon-mail-squared"></i><span class="sr-only">Newsletter</span></a></li>
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+ <span class="icon-quote-left"></span>
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+ Follow <a href="//slashdot.org/blog">Slashdot blog</a> updates by <a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/SlashdotSitenews">subscribing to our blog RSS feed</a>
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+ <span class="sd-key-firehose-id">102640946</span>
+ <span class="type">story</span>
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+<header>
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+
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+ </span>
+
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+ <h2 class="story">
+
+
+
+
+
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+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <span id="title-102640946" class="story-title"> <a href="//games.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2146237/valve-explains-how-it-decides-whos-a-straight-up-troll-publishing-video-games-on-steam">Valve Explains How It Decides Who's a 'Straight Up Troll' Publishing Video Games On Steam</a> <span class=" no extlnk"><a class="story-sourcelnk" href="https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/9kmej7/valve-it-really-does-seem-bad-games-are-made-by-bad-people" title="External link - https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/9kmej7/valve-it-really-does-seem-bad-games-are-made-by-bad-people" target="_blank"> (vice.com) </a></span></span>
+
+
+
+ <!--<span class="comments commentcnt-102640946" >32</span>-->
+
+
+
+ <!-- comment bubble -->
+
+ <span class="comment-bubble"><a href="//games.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2146237/valve-explains-how-it-decides-whos-a-straight-up-troll-publishing-video-games-on-steam#comments" title="">32</a></span>
+
+ </h2>
+ <div class="details" id="details-102640946">
+ <span class="story-details">
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+ Posted
+ by
+
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+ <a href="https://twitter.com/BeauHD" rel="nofollow">BeauHD</a>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <time id="fhtime-102640946" datetime="on Thursday September 06, 2018 @08:45PM">on Thursday September 06, 2018 @08:45PM</time>
+
+
+ from the <span class="dept-text">behind-the-scenes</span> dept.
+
+ </span>
+ </div>
+</header>
+
+<div class="body" id="fhbody-102640946">
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <div id="text-102640946" class="p">
+
+
+ An anonymous reader quotes a report from Motherboard: <i>Wednesday, Valve, the company that operates the huge online video game store Steam, shared more details about <a href="https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/9kmej7/valve-it-really-does-seem-bad-games-are-made-by-bad-people">how it plans to control and moderate the ever-increasing number of games published on its platform</a>. In the post <a href="https://steamcommunity.com/games/593110/announcements/detail/1708442022337025126">published Wednesday</a>, Valve shared more details about how it determines what it considers "outright trolling." "It is vague and we'll tell you why," Valve wrote. "You're a denizen of the internet so you know that trolls come in all forms. On Steam, some are simply trying to rile people up with something we call 'a game shaped object' (ie: a crudely made piece of software that technically and just barely passes our bar as a functioning video game but isn't what 99.9% of folks would say is "good.")
+<br> <br>
+Valve goes on to explain that some trolls are trying to scam folks out of their Steam inventory items (digital items that can be traded for real money), while others are trying to generate a small amount of money through a variety of schemes that have to do with how developers use keys to unlock Steam games, while others are trying to "incite and sow discord." "Trolls are figuring out new ways to be loathsome as we write this," Valve said. "But the thing these folks have in common is that they aren't actually interested in good faith efforts to make and sell games to you or anyone. When a developer's motives aren't that, they're probably a troll." One interesting observation Valve shares in the blog post is that it rarely bans individual games from Steam, and more often bans developers and/or publishers entirely. [...] Valve said that its review process for determining that something may be a "troll game" is a "deep assessment" that involves investigating who the developer is, what they've done in the past, their behavior on Steam as a developer, as a customer, their banking information, developers they associate with, and more.</i><br>
+
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+ data-janrain-url="https://games.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2146237/valve-explains-how-it-decides-whos-a-straight-up-troll-publishing-video-games-on-steam"
+ data-janrain-title="Valve Explains How It Decides Who's a 'Straight Up Troll' Publishing Video Games On Steam"
+ data-janrain-message="Valve Explains How It Decides Who's a 'Straight Up Troll' Publishing Video Games On Steam @slashdot"
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+ <h2><a href="//games.slashdot.org/story/18/07/08/0150207/game-company-fires-two-employees-who-complained-about-mansplaining-on-twitter?sdsrc=popbyskid">Game Company Fires Two Employees Who Complained About 'Mansplaining' on Twitter</a><br></h2>
+ <h2><a href="//games.slashdot.org/story/18/02/22/219243/president-trump-we-have-to-do-something-about-violent-video-games-movies?sdsrc=popbyskid">President Trump: 'We Have To Do Something' About Violent Video Games, Movies</a><br></h2>
+ <h2><a href="//games.slashdot.org/story/17/12/29/2350239/call-of-duty-gaming-community-points-to-swatting-in-wichita-police-shooting?sdsrc=popbyskid">Call of Duty Gaming Community Points To 'Swatting' In Wichita Police Shooting</a><br></h2>
+ <h2><a href="//games.slashdot.org/story/18/01/31/2133204/gdc-rescinds-award-for-atari-founder-nolan-bushnell-after-criticisms-of-sexually-inappropriate-behavior?sdsrc=popbyskid">GDC Rescinds Award For Atari Founder Nolan Bushnell After Criticisms of Sexually Inappropriate Behavior</a><br></h2>
+ <h2><a href="//games.slashdot.org/story/18/06/07/0221200/valve-will-stop-removing-controversial-games-on-steam-unless-they-are-illegal-or-straight-up-trolling?sdsrc=popbyskid">Valve Will Stop Removing Controversial Games on Steam Unless They Are 'Illegal or Straight up Trolling'</a><br></h2>
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+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266938" name="comment_link_57266938" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580630&cid=57266938" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266938)" >Just charge a $5K "listing fee"</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266938" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266938); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>5</a>, Interesting)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~west">west</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~west">( 39918 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266938">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @08:51PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580630&cid=57266938">#57266938</a>)
+ <small> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266938"><p>98% of the total garbage disappears (as well as a few percent of the good). Of course "not terribly good games" will still appear, but it gets rid of the absolute garbage.</p><p>Or if people are appalled at paying to appear on Steam, allow spending $10K for a Steam "check-mark of marketing", and allow users to filter to show only check-marked games.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
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+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267230" name="comment_link_57267230" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580630&cid=57267230" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267230)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267230" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267230); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>1</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span>Anonymous Coward</span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267230"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267230"><p>"Choices"???</p><p>Thirty-five (35) games were released on Steam <i>today alone</i>.</p><p>Go fuck yourself.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
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+<div id="comment_status_57267296" class="commentstatus"></div>
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+ <div id="comment_top_57267296" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267296" name="comment_link_57267296" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580630&cid=57267296" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267296)" >Steam wants the garbage</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267296" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267296); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>3</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~rsilvergun">rsilvergun</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~rsilvergun">( 571051 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267296"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267296">because there's no accounting for taste, and if you took away garbage there'd be no Goat Simulator. As the saying goes, one man's trash is another's treasure. <br> <br>
+
+Plus, a lot of good devs get their start making trash.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267296">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267296"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267296">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267296" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57267296"><li id="tree_57267350" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267350" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267350" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267350" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267350" name="comment_link_57267350" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580630&cid=57267350" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267350)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267350" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267350); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>3</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~AC-x">AC-x</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~AC-x">( 735297 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267350"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267350"><p><div class="quote"><p>because there's no accounting for taste, and if you took away garbage there'd be no Goat Simulator. As the saying goes, one man's trash is another's treasure.</p></div><p>I'm sorry, but anyone with a functioning brain would see that infinitely more effort and polish has been put in to games like Goat Simulator than any of those garbage "asset flips" that litter the Steam store.</p><p>Yes the difference between a good and bad game is subjective, but broken zero effort trash is much easier to agree on...</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267350">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267350"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267350">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267350" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li></ul></li><li id="tree_57267546" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267546" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267546" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267546" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267546" name="comment_link_57267546" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580630&cid=57267546" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267546)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267546" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267546); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~mentil">mentil</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~mentil">( 1748130 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267546"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267546"><p>Will never happen. There are way too many games like PUBG that would've never become Steam hits if they had such a policy. It only needs to be enough to make the trolls miss it/lose out with their scams; $100 would likely be enough.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267546">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267546"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267546">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267546" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57267546"><li id="tree_57267610" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267610" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267610" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267610"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267610">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267610" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57267546"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580630&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57267546">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57267548" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267548" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267548" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267548"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267548">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267548" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267566" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267566" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267566" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267566" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267566" name="comment_link_57267566" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580630&cid=57267566" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267566)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267566" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267566); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Escogido">Escogido</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Escogido">( 884359 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267566"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267566"><p>Either would shut a lot of starting indie games developers out of the system, thus preventing said developers and the gaming industry in general from making future hits. Basically, all new games are either essentially reskins/clones of existing games, or trying new mechanics and/or interactions, and sometimes (rarely) stories and characters. Given the typical indie level production values are garbage, in general, only the ones that try to innovate actually do have some value for the industry. However, first<span class="substr"> </span></p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267566">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267566"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267566">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267566" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57266938"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580630&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266938">4 replies</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266960" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266960" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266960" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266960" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266960" name="comment_link_57266960" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580630&cid=57266960" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266960)" >Best New Feature</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266960" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266960); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Kunedog">Kunedog</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Kunedog">( 1033226 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266960"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266960"><p><div class="quote"><p>A second set of changes was focused on improving how you can ignore things you're not interested in. In the past you've been able to ignore individual games or product types (like VR, or Early Access) you didn't want to see again. But now we've added ways for you to also easily ignore individual developers, publishers, and curators.</p></div><p>Imagine how much easier browsing Netflix would be if you could filter out whole franchises and showrunners. Of course, that might make it obvious how little on Netflix actually interests you.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266960">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266960"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266960">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266960" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266960"><li id="tree_57266992" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266992" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266992" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266992" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266992" name="comment_link_57266992" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580630&cid=57266992" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266992)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266992" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266992); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>, Funny)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span>Anonymous Coward</span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266992"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266992"><p>Then they could charge a fee to shows that don't want to be filtered by you</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266992">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266992"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266992">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266992" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266992"><li id="tree_57267140" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267140" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267140" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267140" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267140" name="comment_link_57267140" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580630&cid=57267140" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267140)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267140" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267140); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Archfeld">Archfeld</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Archfeld">( 6757 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267140"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267140"><p>Sounds like Amazon, and the Kindle Library. No matter what you search, every 7th listing is a 'Sponsored' listing, and even if you specify a particular author or absolute title, you always get 10 or 12 additional 'bonus' items listed.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267140">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267140"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267140">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267140" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li></ul></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57267010" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267010" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267010" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267010" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267010" name="comment_link_57267010" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580630&cid=57267010" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267010)" >Early Access Garbage and abandonment</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267010" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267010); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~shendar">shendar</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~shendar">( 674986 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267010"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267010">How about if a developer starts a EA Project and walks away (takes forever with no progress) they are banned from further EA?
+How about if they are banned from the store entirely?</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267010">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267010"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267010">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267010" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57267010"><li id="tree_57267100" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267100" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267100" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267100"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267100">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267100" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267356" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267356" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267356" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267356" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267356" name="comment_link_57267356" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580630&cid=57267356" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267356)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267356" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267356); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>3</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~AC-x">AC-x</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~AC-x">( 735297 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267356"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267356"><p>I'm sure the type of developer who does that would simply abandon their old label and create a new developer account to carry on.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267356">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267356"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267356">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267356" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267558" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267558" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267558" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267558" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267558" name="comment_link_57267558" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580630&cid=57267558" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267558)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267558" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267558); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~mentil">mentil</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~mentil">( 1748130 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267558"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267558"><p>"I'm sick of development, so here's version '1.0'."<br>Also define 'forever' in a timescale that doesn't apply to Notch, Rockstar or Valve.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267558">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267558"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267558">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267558" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57267558"><li id="tree_57267646" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267646" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267646" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267646" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267646" name="comment_link_57267646" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580630&cid=57267646" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267646)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267646" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267646); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Calydor">Calydor</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Calydor">( 739835 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267646"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267646"><p>Wait. I see what you did there.</p><p>You mentioned three developers.</p><p>CONFIRMED: Half-Life 3 is being produced by Notch and Rockstar!</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267646">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267646"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267646">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267646" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li></ul></li><li id="hidestring_57267010"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580630&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57267010">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57267014" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267014" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267014" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267014" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267014" name="comment_link_57267014" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580630&cid=57267014" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267014)" >Great Yet Another Meaning For Troll</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267014" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267014); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>1</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Crashmarik">Crashmarik</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Crashmarik">( 635988 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267014"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267014"><p>Already May well be the most overloaded operator in the English language. As it seems to mean anything anyone anywhere takes objection to, or otherwise makes them feel bad.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267014">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267014"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267014">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267014" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57267014"><li id="tree_57267044" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267044" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267044" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267044" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267044" name="comment_link_57267044" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580630&cid=57267044" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267044)" >Re: Great Yet Another Meaning For Troll</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267044" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267044); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Nidi62">Nidi62</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Nidi62">( 1525137 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267044"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267044">The troll in me wants to say that "nazi" probably has "troll" beat<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267044">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267044"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267044">
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+<div id="comment_57267200" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267200" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267200" name="comment_link_57267200" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580630&cid=57267200" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267200)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267200" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267200); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~tepples">tepples</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~tepples">( 727027 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267200"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267200"><p>Furthermore, unlike console and mobile platforms, Steam has very little switching cost. An end user can always just up and switch to Itch or Origin or GOG or Humble or wherever else.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267200">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267200"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267200">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267200" class="hide"></li>
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+
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+</div>
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+ <li id="hiddens_57267198" class="hide"></li>
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+<div id="comment_status_57267476" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267476" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267476" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267476" name="comment_link_57267476" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580630&cid=57267476" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267476)" >Steam's progression</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267476" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267476); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>3</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Luckyo">Luckyo</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Luckyo">( 1726890 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267476">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:59PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580630&cid=57267476">#57267476</a>)
+ <small> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267476"><p>So Steam started as "shove it down their throats" Counter Strike 1.6 launcher. Evolved into highly curated game store over about a decade.</p><p>Then decided to suddenly drop all curation and allow anything and everything on the platform. Got flooded with garbage. Added weird "meta gaming" shit like trading cards. Got games that literally existed just to allow people to get cards. Allowed some trading and other meta gaming of the system. Even got pressured by some SJW types to drop politically controversial games like Hatred and even had their recent porn games brouhaha.</p><p>And now, they're doing this. I guess there's just too much pressure from all directions, and they really just decided that no, we're not bending to various pressure groups, and instead just making sure that asset flips and such are not on the store. If true, good on them.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267476">
+<span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57267476" class="btn link" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580630&op=Reply&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57267476" onclick="D2.replyTo(57267476); return false;">Reply to This</a> <a href="#" class="comment_share_toggle btn link">Share</a>
+ <div class="comment_share sharethis-0 hide"><span class="au"></span>
+ <a class="janrain t" href="#" data-provider="twitter" data-message="Steam's progression by Luckyo @slashdot" data-url="https://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580630&cid=57267476" data-title="Steam's progression">twitter</a>
+ <a class="janrain f" href="#" data-provider="facebook" data-message="Steam's progression by Luckyo" data-url="https://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580630&cid=57267476" data-title="Steam's progression">facebook</a>
+ <a class="janrain l" href="#" data-provider="linkedin" data-message="Steam's progression by Luckyo" data-url="https://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580630&cid=57267476" data-title="Steam's progression">linkedin</a>
+ <a class="g" href="https://plus.google.com/share?url=https://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580630%26cid=57267476" onclick="javascript:window.open(this.href,'', 'menubar=no,toolbar=no,resizable=yes,scrollbars=yes,height=600,width=600');return false;"><img src="//www.gstatic.com/images/icons/gplus-16.png" alt="Share on Google+"/></a>
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+<div id="comment_status_57267492" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267492" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267492" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267492" name="comment_link_57267492" href="//games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580630&cid=57267492" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267492)" >Early Access</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267492" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267492); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~tylersoze">tylersoze</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~tylersoze">( 789256 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267492"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267492"><p>Eh, all I really want from Valve is a filter that blocks all "Early Access" games from ever appearing, as I'm browsing for games on their web site.</p></div>
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+ if($(this).hasClass('railad')) {
+ if(topBannerViewed){
+ var topPixels = $(this).offset().top;
+ navOffset += $('.adwrap').outerHeight();
+ if(y >= topPixels && y >= navOffset){
+ $('#slashboxes').css('top', 0).css('position','fixed').css('right',13);
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+ return;
+ }
+ var topPixels = $(this).offset().top;
+ if(y >= topPixels && y >= navOffset){
+ $(this).addClass(cls);
+ $(this).removeClass('adwrap');
+ if(cls == 'adwrap-sticky') { //top banner
+ topBannerViewed = false;
+ $('#slashboxes').css('top',$(this).outerHeight() || 0).css('position','fixed').css('right',13);
+ }
+ if(topBannerViewed) {
+ console.log('hereeee');
+ $('#slashboxes').css('top', 0).css('position','fixed').css('right',13);
+ }
+ }else{
+ $(this).removeClass(cls);
+ $(this).addClass(toggleCls);
+ $('#slashboxes').removeAttr('style');
+ }
+ });
+ if($('.adwrap-viewed-banner').length > 0){
+ topBannerViewed = true;
+ $('.adwrap-viewed-banner').removeClass('adwrap-unviewed').removeClass('adwrap-sticky').addClass('adwrap');
+ }
+ if($('.adwrap-viewed-railad').length > 0){
+ $('.adwrap-viewed-railad').removeClass('adwrap-unviewed').removeClass('adwrap-railad-sticky');
+ $('#slashboxes').removeAttr('style');
+ }
+ });
+}
+</script>
+
+<!-- Piwik -->
+<script type="text/javascript">
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+ }
+ $.ajax({
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+ success: function(html){
+ $('#firehoselist article').eq(1).after(html);
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+ });
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+ if(document.getElementById('announcementText')){
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+ var hlUrl = '/ajax.pl?op=hl_nel';
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+ },
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+ });
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+bizx.cmp.ifConsent('publisher', ['storage', 'measurement'], initPiwikAndNels);
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+<script async type="text/javascript" src="//ads.pro-market.net/ads/scripts/site-143573.js"></script>
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+ <img src="//slashdot.org/images/njs.gif?155">
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+ $(window).scroll(function () {
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+ sessionStorage.scrollPos = $(window).scrollTop();
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+ }
+ $(function(){
+ $('a').click(function(){
+ delete sessionStorage.scrollPos;
+ })
+ });
+ // window.onbeforeunload = function () {
+ // console.log('bakc button clicked');
+ // delete sessionStorage.scrollPos;
+ // }
+ window.onpopstate=function() {
+ delete sessionStorage.scrollPos;
+ }
+ </script>
+
+
+
+ <!-- 1x1 story page -->
+ <div id='div-gpt-ad-1x1'><script type='text/javascript'>
+googletag.cmd.push(function(){
+googletag.display('div-gpt-ad-1x1');});</script></div>
+
+
+ <script type="text/javascript">
+ if (!window.is_euro_union) {
+ window._taboola = window._taboola || [];
+ _taboola.push({flush: true});
+ }
+ </script>
+
+ </body>
+ </html>
+
+
+ <!-- footer type=current end -->
\ No newline at end of file
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+<!-- html-header type=current begin -->
+
+ <!DOCTYPE html>
+
+ <html lang="en">
+ <head>
+ <!-- Render IE9 -->
+ <meta http-equiv="X-UA-Compatible" content="IE=edge,chrome=1">
+
+
+
+<script>window.is_euro_union = 1;</script>
+<script src="https://a.fsdn.com/con/js/sftheme/vendor/promise.polyfill.min.js"></script>
+<script src="https://a.fsdn.com/con/js/sftheme/cmp.js"></script>
+<script src="https://slashdot.org/country.js"></script>
+<script type='text/javascript'>
+if (window.is_euro_union) {
+ bizx.cmp.init({
+ // to test: 'Display UI': 'always',
+ 'Publisher Name': 'Slashdot',
+ 'Publisher Logo': 'https://a.fsdn.com/sd/sdlogo.svg',
+ 'Consent Scope': 'global group',
+ 'Consent Scope Group URL': 'https://slashdot.org/gdpr-cookies.pl',
+ });
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+</script>
+<link rel="stylesheet" href="//a.fsdn.com/con/css/sftheme/sandiego/cmp.css" type="text/css">
+<style type="text/css">
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+ background-color: #016765;
+}
+</style>
+<script>
+if (!window.is_euro_union) {
+(function (s,o,n,a,r,i,z,e) {s['StackSonarObject']=r;s[r]=s[r]||function(){
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+ z=o.getElementsByTagName(n)[0];i.async=1;i.src=a;z.parentNode.insertBefore(i,z)
+ })(window,document,'script','https://www.stack-sonar.com/ping.js','stackSonar');
+ stackSonar('stack-connect', '66');
+}
+</script>
+
+ <script id="before-content" type="text/javascript">
+(function () {
+ if (typeof window.sdmedia !== 'object') {
+ window.sdmedia = {};
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+ window.sdmedia.site = {};
+ }
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+ var site = window.sdmedia.site;
+ site.rootdir = "//slashdot.org";
+}());
+
+var pageload = {
+ pagemark: '199255659274998772',
+ before_content: (new Date).getTime()
+};
+function pageload_done( $, console, maybe ){
+ pageload.after_readycode = (new Date).getTime();
+ pageload.content_ready_time = pageload.content_ready - pageload.before_content;
+ pageload.script_ready_time = pageload.after_readycode - pageload.content_ready;
+ pageload.ready_time = pageload.after_readycode - pageload.before_content;
+ // Only report 1% of cases.
+ maybe || (Math.random()>0.01) || $.ajax({ data: {
+ op: 'page_profile',
+ pagemark: pageload.pagemark,
+ dom: pageload.content_ready_time,
+ js: pageload.script_ready_time
+ } });
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+</script>
+ <meta http-equiv="X-UA-Compatible" content="IE=edge,chrome=1">
+
+ <title>Robot Boat Sails Into History By Finishing Atlantic Crossing - Slashdot</title>
+ <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
+
+ <meta name="description" content="An anonymous reader writes: For the first time an autonomous sailing robot has completed the Microtransat Challenge by crossing the Atlantic from Newfoundland, Canada to Ireland. The Microtransat has been running since 2010 and has seen 23 previous entries all fail to make it across. The successful ...">
+
+ <meta name="twitter:card" content="summary">
+ <meta name="twitter:site" content="@slashdot">
+ <meta name="twitter:domain" content="hardware.slashdot.org">
+ <meta property="og:url" content="https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1719243/robot-boat-sails-into-history-by-finishing-atlantic-crossing?utm_source=rss1.0mainlinkanon&utm_medium=feed">
+
+ <meta property="og:title" content="Robot Boat Sails Into History By Finishing Atlantic Crossing - Slashdot">
+ <meta property="og:description" content="An anonymous reader writes: For the first time an autonomous sailing robot has completed the Microtransat Challenge by crossing the Atlantic from Newfoundland, Canada to Ireland. The Microtransat has been running since 2010 and has seen 23 previous entries all fail to make it across. The successful ...">
+
+
+
+ <meta property="og:image" content="https://a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/robot_64.png">
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+ <meta property="fb:admins" content="100000696822412">
+ <meta property="fb:page_id" content="267995220856">
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+ <meta name="viewport" content="width=1000, user-scalable=yes, minimum-scale=0, maximum-scale=10.0" />
+ <meta name="apple-mobile-web-app-capable" content="yes">
+ <meta name="apple-mobile-web-app-status-bar-style" content="black">
+
+ <link rel="canonical" href="https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1719243/robot-boat-sails-into-history-by-finishing-atlantic-crossing">
+
+ <link rel="alternate" media="only screen and (max-width: 640px)" href="http://m.slashdot.org/story/345534" >
+
+
+ <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" media="screen, projection" href="//a.fsdn.com/sd/classic.ssl.css?8f5016a67a2f2048" >
+ <!--[if IE 8]><link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" media="screen, projection" href="//a.fsdn.com/sd/ie8-classic.ssl.css?8f5016a67a2f2048" ><![endif]-->
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+ <!-- -->
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+ <link rel="stylesheet" href="//a.fsdn.com/sd/css/app.css?8f5016a67a2f2048">
+
+ <script type='text/javascript'>
+var _gaq = _gaq || [];
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+
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+<script type='text/javascript'>
+ /*global performance */
+ var googletag = window.googletag || {};
+ googletag.cmd = googletag.cmd || [];
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+ window.Ads_disallowPersonalization = 1;
+ bizx.cmp.ifConsent('all', 'all', function(){
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+ }, function(){
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+ }, function () {
+ window.bizxPrebid.Ads.initPrebid(window.bizxPrebid.adUnits);
+ });
+</script>
+
+<!-- prep GPT ads -->
+<script type='text/javascript'>
+(function() {
+ function page_type (loc) {
+ /*
+ only four page types:
+ - Story
+ - Poll
+ - Homepage (/ only)
+ - Other (but AdOps wants 'Homepage' again)
+ */
+ var path = loc.pathname;
+ var just_the_root = /^\/?$/.test(path);
+ var story_or_poll = /^\/(story(?=\/)|submission(?=\/)|poll(?=\/|Booth|s\b))/i.exec(path);
+
+ var page_type = just_the_root ? 'homepage'
+ : story_or_poll ? story_or_poll[1]
+ : 'other'
+
+ // exceptions
+ if (page_type.toLowerCase() === 'submission')
+ page_type = 'story'; // submissions are like stories, right?
+ else if (page_type.toLowerCase() === 'other')
+ page_type = 'homepage'; // this one might move out of here
+
+ return page_type;
+ }
+ function page_section (loc) {
+ //var greek = ['alpha', 'beta', 'gamma', 'delta'].join('|');
+ //var hostwise = '^([a-z]+)(?:-(?:'+greek+'))?\\.(?:slashdot\\.org|\\.xb\\.sf\\.net)$';
+ var pathwise = '^/(?:(recent|popular|blog)|stories/([^/]+))';
+ var rootwise = '^\/?$';
+
+ //var hostwisely = new RegExp(hostwise,'i').exec(loc.hostname);
+ var pathwisely = new RegExp(pathwise,'i').exec(loc.pathname);
+ var rootwisely = new RegExp(rootwise,'i').exec(loc.pathname);
+
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+ || (pathwisely && (pathwisely[1] || pathwisely[2]))
+ || ''
+ ;
+
+ return section.replace(/[^_a-z]/ig, '');
+ }
+ function single_size (size) {
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+ }
+ function sz_sz (sz) {
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+ var sizes = [];
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+ }
+ return sizes.join(',');
+ } else {
+ return single_size(sz);
+ }
+ }
+
+ function unique_tpc_array(array1,array2) {
+ var j = array1.concat(array2);
+ j.forEach(function (v,i,a) {
+ a[i] = v.replace(/[^_a-z]/ig, '');
+ });
+ return j.filter(function (v,i,a) {
+ return v != '' && a.indexOf(v) === i;
+ });
+ }
+
+ /* LEGEND:
+ - 'sz' = "size"
+ - 'npt' = "no page type" in ad unit name
+ */
+ var tags = {
+ '728x90_A': { 'sz': [[728, 90], [970, 90], [970, 250], [980, 66]] },
+ '728x90_B': { 'sz': [728, 90] },
+ '728x90_C': { 'sz': [728, 90], 'skip': { 'homepage': 1 } },
+ 'HubIcon_200x90_A': { 'sz': [[200, 90], [220, 90]]},
+ 'PowerSwitch_980x66_A': { 'sz': [980, 66], 'skip': { 'homepage': 1 } },
+ 'PollPeel': { 'sz': [200, 90], 'skip': { 'homepage': 1 } },
+ //'VideoWidget_300x250': { 'sz': [300, 250], 'npt': 1 },
+ '300x250_A': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600], [300, 1050]] },
+ '300x250_B': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]] },
+ '300x250_C': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]] },
+ '300x250_D': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]] },
+ 'Pulse_300x600_A': { 'sz': [300, 600] },
+ //'Polls_Detail_300x250_A': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]], 'npt': 1 },
+ //'Poll_300x250_A': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]], 'npt': 1 },
+ //'SD_Story_1x1': { 'sz': [1, 1] },
+ '1x1': { 'sz': [1, 1] }
+ };
+
+ //var network_path = '/41014381/Slashdot/';
+ var network_path = '/41014381/Slashdot/';
+ var tag_name_prefix = 'SD';
+ var tag_name_linkage = '_';
+ var tag_name_pagetype = page_type(location);
+ var tag_topic = page_section(location);
+ if(tag_name_pagetype == 'poll'){
+ tag_name_pagetype = 'Poll';
+ }
+ var before_tag_pagetyped = network_path
+ + tag_name_prefix
+ + tag_name_linkage
+ + tag_name_pagetype
+ + tag_name_linkage
+ ;
+ var before_tag_pagetypeless = network_path
+ + tag_name_prefix
+ + tag_name_linkage
+ /* + tag_name_pagetype */
+ /* + tag_name_linkage */
+ ;
+
+
+ googletag.cmd.push(function() {
+
+ function remove_sticky_top() {
+ setTimeout(function(){
+ $('#div-gpt-ad-728x90_a').parent('div').addClass('adwrap-viewed-banner');
+ $('#div-gpt-ad-728x90_a').addClass('viewableImpression');
+ }, 1000);
+ }
+ function remove_sticky_railad() {
+ setTimeout(function(){
+ $('#slashboxes .adwrap-unviewed').addClass('adwrap-viewed-railad');
+ $('.railad').addClass('viewableImpression');
+ }, 1000);
+ }
+ function viewable_imp (slot) {
+ for(var i in slot) {
+ if(typeof slot[i] !== 'string') continue;
+ switch(slot[i]){
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_728x90_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_story_728x90_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_Poll_728x90_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_728x90_Ref_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_story_728x90_Ref_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_Poll_728x90_Ref_A":
+ remove_sticky_top();
+ break;
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_300x250_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_story_300x250_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_Poll_300x250_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_300x250_Ref_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_story_300x250_Ref_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_Poll_300x250_Ref_A":
+ remove_sticky_railad();
+ break;
+ }
+ //if(slot[i] === "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_728x90_A") remove_sticky_top();
+ //if(slot[i] === "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_300x250_A") remove_sticky_railad();
+ }
+ }
+ function define_me_a_slot (tag) {
+ if (tags[tag].skip && tags[tag].skip[tag_name_pagetype])
+ return;
+ var sandbox_regex = /\.xb\.sf\.net$/i;
+ var full_name = tags[tag].npt // "no page type"
+ ? before_tag_pagetypeless + tag
+ : before_tag_pagetyped + tag
+ ;
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+ <link rel="top" title="News for nerds, stuff that matters" href="//slashdot.org/" >
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+ <a href="//slashdot.org"><span>Slashdot</span></a>
+</h1>
+
+<ul class="nav-site">
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org"><i class="icon-book" title="Stories"></i><span>Stories</span></a></li>
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+
+ <li><a href="//events.slashdot.org"><i class="icon-calendar"></i><span>Events</span></a></li>
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+<a href="//slashdot.org/submission" class="btn btn-success">Submit</a>
+ </nav>
+ <nav class="nav-user" role="navigation" aria-label="user access and account controls">
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+<!-- //hardware.slashdot.org/index2.pl" -->
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+ <div class="input-group">
+ <input type="text" id="" class="" name="fhfilter" value="" placeholder="Search">
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+ </div>
+ <button type="submit" class="btn icon-search"></button>
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+<ul class="user-access">
+
+
+ <li >
+ <a href="//slashdot.org/my/login" onclick="show_login_box(); return false;"><i class="icon-login"></i><span> Login</span></a>
+
+ </li>
+
+
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+ <li class="nav-label">or</li>
+
+
+
+ <li >
+ <a href="//slashdot.org/my/newuser" ><i class="icon-user-add"></i><span> Sign up</span></a>
+
+ </li>
+
+
+</ul>
+ </nav>
+ </div>
+ <div class="nav-secondary-wrap">
+ <nav class="nav-secondary" role="secondary-navigation">
+ <ul>
+ <li class="nav-label">Topics: </li>
+ <li><a href="//devices.slashdot.org">Devices</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//build.slashdot.org">Build</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//entertainment.slashdot.org">Entertainment</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//technology.slashdot.org">Technology</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org/?fhfilter=opensource">Open Source</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//science.slashdot.org">Science</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//yro.slashdot.org">YRO</a></li>
+ <!-- <li><a href="//slashdot.org/topics.pl">more...</a></li> -->
+ </ul>
+</nav>
+<nav class="nav-social" role="social navigation">
+ <ul>
+ <li class="nav-label">Follow us:</li>
+ <li><a href="http://rss.slashdot.org/Slashdot/slashdotMain" target="_blank"><i class="icon-rss-squared"></i><span class="sr-only">RSS</span></a></li>
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+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org/newsletter" target="_blank"><i class="icon-mail-squared"></i><span class="sr-only">Newsletter</span></a></li>
+ </ul>
+</nav>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+
+ <section>
+
+ <div class="message-bar" id="firehose-message-tray">
+ <span class="icon-quote-left"></span>
+ <p>
+
+
+ Follow Slashdot stories on <a href="http://twitter.com/slashdot">Twitter</a>
+
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+
+<div id="janrainEngageEmbed"></div>
+<div class="actions">
+ <a class="ico close" onclick="hide_login_slider();" href=""><span>Close</span></a>
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+ global.left = Math.min(global.left, right-$menu.width());
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+<header>
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+ <span class="topic" id="topic-102637868">
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+ <span id="title-102637868" class="story-title"> <a href="//hardware.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1719243/robot-boat-sails-into-history-by-finishing-atlantic-crossing">Robot Boat Sails Into History By Finishing Atlantic Crossing</a> <span class=" no extlnk"><a class="story-sourcelnk" href="https://www.apnews.com/f6d0e2a099684468873ab48966590ada" title="External link - https://www.apnews.com/f6d0e2a099684468873ab48966590ada" target="_blank"> (apnews.com) </a></span></span>
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+ Posted
+ by
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+ msmash
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+
+
+ <time id="fhtime-102637868" datetime="on Thursday September 06, 2018 @01:20PM">on Thursday September 06, 2018 @01:20PM</time>
+
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+ from the <span class="dept-text">impressive-feat</span> dept.
+
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+ <div id="text-102637868" class="p">
+
+
+ An anonymous reader writes: <i>For the first time an autonomous sailing robot has completed the <a href="https://www.microtransat.org/">Microtransat Challenge</a> by <a href="https://www.apnews.com/f6d0e2a099684468873ab48966590ada">crossing the Atlantic from Newfoundland, Canada to Ireland</a>. The Microtransat has been running since 2010 and has seen 23 previous entries all fail to make it across. The successful boat, <a href="https://www.microtransat.org/2018_sailbuoy_boat.php">SB Met</a> was built by the Norwegian company <a href="http://sailbuoy.no/">Offshore Sensing AS</a> and is only 2 metres (6.5 ft) long. It completed the crossing on August 26th, 79 days and 5000 km (3100 miles) of sailing after departing Newfoundland on June 7th.</i> <b>Further reading:</b> <a href="https://science.slashdot.org/story/18/05/16/228245/a-fleet-of-sailing-robots-sets-out-to-quantify-the-oceans">A Fleet of Sailing Robots Sets Out To Quantify the Oceans</a>.<br>
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+<ul id="commtree_57264736"><li id="tree_57264962" class="comment full contain"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57264962" class="commentstatus"></div>
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+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57264962" name="comment_link_57264962" href="//hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580070&cid=57264962" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57264962)" >Re:Hard to understand why this would be difficult</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57264962" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57264962); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>4</a>, Informative)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~arth1">arth1</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~arth1">( 260657 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57264962">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @01:58PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580070&cid=57264962">#57264962</a>)
+ <small><a href="http://2130706433/" title="http://2130706433/" class="user_homepage_display">Homepage</a>
+<a href="//slashdot.org/~arth1/journal/" title="Thursday June 27, 2013 @03:02PM" class="user_journal_display">Journal</a> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57264962"><p>You're a landlubber, I take it?<br>The Atlantic waves are quite an obstacle for a 2m boat.<br>Even drifting tar (and garbage) is a problem when you're that small.</p></div>
+ </div>
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+ <div id="comment_top_57264966" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57264966" name="comment_link_57264966" href="//hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580070&cid=57264966" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57264966)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57264966" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57264966); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>3</a>, Funny)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span>Anonymous Coward</span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57264966"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57264966"><p>It is not that easy. If you just start sailing in a straight line, you will end up many kilometers above the sea, which is no good for a sail boat. If instead you point the boat straight at the finish line, you'll be under water for most of the trip. Again, not ideal for a sail boat. The earth is not flat, you know.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
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+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265170" name="comment_link_57265170" href="//hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580070&cid=57265170" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265170)" >Re:Hard to understand why this would be difficult</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265170" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265170); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>4</a>, Funny)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Oswald+McWeany">Oswald McWeany</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Oswald+McWeany">( 2428506 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265170">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @02:33PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580070&cid=57265170">#57265170</a>)
+ <small> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265170"><p>I've found a <b>FLAT EARTH DENIER</b>!</p><p>I bet you vaccinate your kids and don't believe in lizard people either.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
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+<div id="comment_status_57265444" class="commentstatus"></div>
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+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265444" name="comment_link_57265444" href="//hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580070&cid=57265444" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265444)" >Re:</a>
+
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+ <span id="comment_score_57265444" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265444); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~gnick">gnick</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~gnick">( 1211984 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265444"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265444"><p>Flat Earth statistic: If gravity is caused by a flat earth accelerating at g, it'll reach c after about 1 year (~354 days).</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265444">
+
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+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265608" name="comment_link_57265608" href="//hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580070&cid=57265608" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265608)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265608" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265608); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~amorsen">amorsen</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~amorsen">( 7485 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265608"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265608"><p><div class="quote"><p>Flat Earth statistic: If gravity is caused by a flat earth accelerating at g, it'll reach c after about 1 year (~354 days).</p></div><p>You are saying that as if it is a problem to hit C, like it would be impossible to continue after 354 days. This is not the case. As long as you only care about your own point of view and you're the one being accelerated, you can reach as many times C as you want (well, have fuel for).</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265608">
+
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+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265608"></div>
+
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+<div id="comment_57265624" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265624" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265624" name="comment_link_57265624" href="//hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580070&cid=57265624" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265624)" >Re:</a>
+
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+ <span id="comment_score_57265624" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265624); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~gnick">gnick</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~gnick">( 1211984 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265624"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265624"><p>You also have to decide what "at rest" means. A year accelerating at g will put you at your current velocity + c.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265624">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265624"></div>
+
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+ <li id="hiddens_57265624" class="hide"></li>
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+ <li id="hiddens_57266332" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266332"><li id="tree_57267124" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267124" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267124" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267124" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267124" name="comment_link_57267124" href="//hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580070&cid=57267124" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267124)" >Re:</a>
+
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+ <span id="comment_score_57267124" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267124); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~lokedhs">lokedhs</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~lokedhs">( 672255 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267124"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267124">Would a flat earther believe in relativity though? If simple geometry eludes them, what would they do when being faced with a Lorentz transformation?</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267124">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267124"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267124">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267124" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li></ul></li><li id="hidestring_57265624"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580070&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265624">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li></ul></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57265708" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265708" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265708" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265708" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265708" name="comment_link_57265708" href="//hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580070&cid=57265708" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265708)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265708" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265708); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~lgw">lgw</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~lgw">( 121541 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265708"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265708"><p><div class="quote"><p> I've found a FLAT EARTH DENIER!</p><p>I bet you vaccinate your kids and don't believe in lizard people either.</p></div><p>The earth is not flat - that's just silly. When we ent to the moon, and we did go to the moon, we discovered the terrifying truth. The MOON is flat!</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265708">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265708"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265708">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265708" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li></ul></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57265008" class="comment full contain"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265008" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265008" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265008" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265008" name="comment_link_57265008" href="//hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580070&cid=57265008" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265008)" >Re:Hard to understand why this would be difficult</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265008" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265008); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>4</a>, Insightful)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~hey!">hey!</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~hey!">( 33014 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265008">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @02:07PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580070&cid=57265008">#57265008</a>)
+ <small><a href="http://kamthaka.blogspot.com/" title="http://kamthaka.blogspot.com/" class="user_homepage_display">Homepage</a>
+<a href="//slashdot.org/~hey!/journal/" title="Friday March 13, 2015 @07:45AM" class="user_journal_display">Journal</a> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265008"><p><div class="quote"><p>There really aren't a lot of obstacles to deal with. Just point the boat and go.</p></div><p>I imagine that's true, if you have an effectively unlimited energy, but the terms of this contest is to build a vehicle <em>less than eight feet long</em> that can cross the Atlantic.</p><p>That's not a lot of room to stuff with batteries or diesel fuel, or to cover with solar panels. And that's the whole point. If you could make the vehicle a hundred feet long, this challenge would be expensive, but easy. By making the boat tiny, you make the challenge affordable, but tough.</p><p>The race has two divisions, sail powered and unlimited, but it's hard to see what they had in mind for propulsion by having an unlimited division. Possibly some seawater-replenished fuel cell.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
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+ <span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57265008" title="Flag this comment as Inappropriate" class="ui-icon flag fright" href="//hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580070&op=flag&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265008" onclick="return false;">Flag as Inappropriate</a>
+</div>
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+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57265008"><li id="tree_57265274" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265274" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265274" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265274"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265274">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265274" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57265582" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265582" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265582" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265582"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265582">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265582" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57265582"><li id="tree_57266616" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266616" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266616" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266616" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266616" name="comment_link_57266616" href="//hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580070&cid=57266616" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266616)" >Bottles with corks have traversed the Atlantic</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266616" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266616); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~aberglas">aberglas</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~aberglas">( 991072 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266616"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266616"><p>Being small means relative high strength. A solid two meter boat should indestructible by waves. No need to keep a human alive, nor to go very fast. A very basic, fixed, small but strong sail would do.</p><p>Ice bergs could be a problem. Surely better to start further south. Longer but safer. Also need to stay out of shipping lanes.</p><p>I think this could be done without a computer. Just a magnetic compass controlling a rudder. Occasionally it would be blown backwards but no big deal. No need to worry about po<span class="substr"> </span></p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266616">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266616"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266616">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266616" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266616"><li id="tree_57266748" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266748" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266748" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266748"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266748">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266748" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57266616"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580070&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266616">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li></ul></li><li id="hidestring_57265008"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580070&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265008">2 replies</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57264742" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57264742" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57264742" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57264742"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57264742">
+ <li id="hiddens_57264742" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57264748" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57264748" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57264748" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57264748" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57264748" name="comment_link_57264748" href="//hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580070&cid=57264748" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57264748)" >KABLAM</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57264748" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57264748); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>1</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~fluffernutter">fluffernutter</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~fluffernutter">( 1411889 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57264748"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57264748">No concrete barriers in the ocean?</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57264748">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57264748"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57264748">
+ <li id="hiddens_57264748" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57264748"><li id="tree_57264930" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57264930" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57264930" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57264930" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57264930" name="comment_link_57264930" href="//hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580070&cid=57264930" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57264930)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57264930" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57264930); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~zlives">zlives</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~zlives">( 2009072 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57264930"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57264930"><p>or pedestrians</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57264930">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57264930"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57264930">
+ <li id="hiddens_57264930" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li></ul></li><li id="tree_57264802" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57264802" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57264802" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57264802" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57264802" name="comment_link_57264802" href="//hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580070&cid=57264802" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57264802)" >A small achievement...</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57264802" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57264802); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Bearhouse">Bearhouse</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Bearhouse">( 1034238 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57264802"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57264802"><p>Sure the Atlantic can be a tough place, but 79 days?</p><p>Single-handed (human) record is 3 1/2 days...</p><p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transatlantic_sailing_record" title="wikipedia.org">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...</a> [wikipedia.org]</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57264802">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57264802"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57264802">
+ <li id="hiddens_57264802" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57264802"><li id="tree_57264890" class="comment full contain"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57264890" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57264890" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57264890" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57264890" name="comment_link_57264890" href="//hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580070&cid=57264890" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57264890)" >Re:A small achievement...</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57264890" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57264890); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>4</a>, Informative)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~careysub">careysub</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~careysub">( 976506 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57264890">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @01:46PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580070&cid=57264890">#57264890</a>)
+ <small> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57264890"><p>This is a <i>2 meter</i> vessel, not a large racing hull built to be fast (and nothing but fast). Using the page you link to, the most useful comparison would be the <i>single-handed</i> records, and the one from 1987 which was about 11.5 days was in a <i>26 meter</i> hull! And this is the <i>smallest</i> vessel on the list. You are probably not going to get a 2 meter vessel to tear along at an average speed of 7.5 m/sec which would be needed for that 11.5 day crossing.</p></div>
+ </div>
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Solandri">Solandri</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Solandri">( 704621 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265510"></span>
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+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265510">There have been a few sailboats in the 2 meter size range which have made the transatlantic crossing.
+<ul>
+<li>Hugo Vihlen aboard April Fool (1.8m) in 84 days in 1968, though technically he never finished since he was picked up by the USCG 6 miles offshore.</li><span class="substr"> </span><li>Tom MacNally aboard the Vera Hugh (1.64m) in 134 days in 1993.</li><li>Hugo Vihlen again aboard the Father's Day (1.62m) in 115 days in 1993.</li><li>Tom MacNally unsuccessfully attempted the trip again aboard a 1.19m craft in 1998. He passed away last year.</li></ul><p>
+<a href="http://www.microcruising.com/famoussmallboats.htm" title="microcruising.com">Site with picture</a> [microcruising.com]</p></div>
+ </div>
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~careysub">careysub</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~careysub">( 976506 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57264924"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57264924"><p>Also note that the world speed record for a radio-controlled sailing vessel (which was also 2 meters long) is <a href="http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/greatest-distance-by-radio-controlled-model-sailing-ship-in-24-hours-(rc)" title="guinnessworldrecords.com">157.65 km in 23 hours 42 min</a> [guinnessworldrecords.com] in the milder waters of the Mediterranean. At that <i>world record</i> speed in a small RC boat this challenge would have taken 32 days.</p><p>So 79 days in a boat not controlled by a human, and not limited to a 24 hour period, in the open waters of the Atlantic is not so shabby. The speed made good over that whole journey is 40% of that 24 hour record.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~arth1">arth1</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~arth1">( 260657 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265014"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265014"><p><div class="quote"><p>Sure the Atlantic can be a tough place, but 79 days?</p></div><p>The Mayflower took 66 days to cross, and was much bigger.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265014">
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+ <div id="comment_top_57264942" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57264942" name="comment_link_57264942" href="//hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580070&cid=57264942" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57264942)" >Re:</a>
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~zlives">zlives</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~zlives">( 2009072 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57264942"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57264942"><p>shipping containers are more profitable.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57264942">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57264942"></div>
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+<div id="comment_status_57265160" class="commentstatus"></div>
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+ <div id="comment_top_57265160" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265160" name="comment_link_57265160" href="//hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580070&cid=57265160" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265160)" >And now the jokes begin...</a>
+
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Jharish">Jharish</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Jharish">( 101858 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265160"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265160"><p>..."I rowboat".</p><p>https://www.theonion.com/i-rowboat-1819583491</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265160">
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+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265294" name="comment_link_57265294" href="//hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580070&cid=57265294" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265294)" >Re:</a>
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~starless">starless</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~starless">( 60879 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265294"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265294"><p>Followed later by Cory Doctorow<br><a href="http://bestsciencefictionstories.com/2009/03/29/i-row-boat-by-cory-doctorow/" title="bestscienc...tories.com">http://bestsciencefictionstori...</a> [bestscienc...tories.com]</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265294">
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+ <div id="comment_top_57265238" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265238" name="comment_link_57265238" href="//hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580070&cid=57265238" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265238)" >Description wrong? Not autonomous?</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265238" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265238); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>5</a>, Informative)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~starless">starless</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~starless">( 60879 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265238">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @02:46PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580070&cid=57265238">#57265238</a>)
+ <small> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265238"><p><div class="quote"><p>For the first time an autonomous sailing robot...</p></div><p>From the linked article:<br><a href="https://www.apnews.com/f6d0e2a099684468873ab48966590ada" title="apnews.com">https://www.apnews.com/f6d0e2a...</a> [apnews.com] </p><p><div class="quote"><p>The Sailbuoy competed in the “unmanned” class, which allows operators to change its course along the way. There’s a separate “autonomous” class that prohibits any such communication.</p><p><div class="quote"></div></div></div>
+ </div>
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+<div id="comment_status_57265376" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265376" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265376" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265376" name="comment_link_57265376" href="//hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580070&cid=57265376" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265376)" >So you crossed the sea, Columbot</a>
+
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+ <span id="comment_score_57265376" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265376); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>1</a>)</span></h4>
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+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~DulcetTone">DulcetTone</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~DulcetTone">( 601692 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265376"></span>
+ </div>
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+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265376"><p>Don't forget that indigenous robots have rights, too.</p></div>
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+ <meta name="description" content="A 28-year-old MIT graduate named You Wu spent six years developing a low-cost robot designed to find leaks in pipes early, both to save water and to avoid bigger damage later from bursting water mains. "Called Lighthouse, the robot looks like a badminton birdie," reports Fast Company. "A soft 'skirt...">
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+
+ <meta property="og:title" content="MIT Graduate Creates Robot That Swims Through Pipes To Find Out If They're Leaking - Slashdot">
+ <meta property="og:description" content="A 28-year-old MIT graduate named You Wu spent six years developing a low-cost robot designed to find leaks in pipes early, both to save water and to avoid bigger damage later from bursting water mains. "Called Lighthouse, the robot looks like a badminton birdie," reports Fast Company. "A soft 'skirt...">
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+
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+
+<!-- SMACKS: BEGIN STORY CONTENT -->
+<div class="container">
+ <!--SMACKS: BEGING CENTER COLUMN -->
+ <div class="main-wrap has-rail-right">
+ <div class="main-content">
+ <div class="grid_24 a2 ">
+ </div>
+ <div id="firehose" class="nothumbs">
+ <div id="firehoselist" class="fhroot fleft grid_24">
+ <div id="announcement">
+ <div id="announcementText" style="display: none;"> <span class="headline">Migrate from GitHub to SourceForge quickly and easily with <strong><a href="https://sourceforge.net/p/forge/documentation/GitHub%20Importer/">this tool</a></strong>.</span> Check out all of SourceForge’s <strong><a href="https://sourceforge.net/blog/brief-history-sourceforge-look-to-future/">recent improvements.</a></strong></div>
+ <a href="" class="btn-close" title="don't show me this again" onclick="closeAnnouncement(); return false;">×</a>
+</div>
+
+
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+</script>
+ <article id="firehose-102640424" data-fhid="102640424" data-fhtype="story" class="fhitem fhitem-story article usermode thumbs grid_24">
+ <span class="sd-info-block" style="display: none">
+ <span class="sd-key-firehose-id">102640424</span>
+ <span class="type">story</span>
+
+ </span>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<header>
+
+ <span class="topic" id="topic-102640424">
+ <a href="//hardware.slashdot.org/index2.pl?fhfilter=robot" onclick="return addfhfilter('robot');">
+
+ <img src="//a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/robot_64.png" width="64" height="64" alt="Robotics" title="Robotics">
+
+ </a>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <a href="//hardware.slashdot.org/index2.pl?fhfilter=science" onclick="return addfhfilter('science');">
+
+ <img src="//a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/science_64.png" width="64" height="64" alt="Science" title="Science">
+
+ </a>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <a href="//hardware.slashdot.org/index2.pl?fhfilter=technology" onclick="return addfhfilter('technology');">
+
+ <img src="//a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/technology_64.png" width="64" height="64" alt="Technology" title="Technology">
+
+ </a>
+ </span>
+
+
+ <h2 class="story">
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <span id="title-102640424" class="story-title"> <a href="//hardware.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2058201/mit-graduate-creates-robot-that-swims-through-pipes-to-find-out-if-theyre-leaking">MIT Graduate Creates Robot That Swims Through Pipes To Find Out If They're Leaking</a> <span class=" no extlnk"><a class="story-sourcelnk" href="https://www.fastcompany.com/90232363/this-leak-seeking-robot-just-won-the-u-s-james-dyson-award" title="External link - https://www.fastcompany.com/90232363/this-leak-seeking-robot-just-won-the-u-s-james-dyson-award" target="_blank"> (fastcompany.com) </a></span></span>
+
+
+
+ <!--<span class="comments commentcnt-102640424" >18</span>-->
+
+
+
+ <!-- comment bubble -->
+
+ <span class="comment-bubble"><a href="//hardware.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2058201/mit-graduate-creates-robot-that-swims-through-pipes-to-find-out-if-theyre-leaking#comments" title="">18</a></span>
+
+ </h2>
+ <div class="details" id="details-102640424">
+ <span class="story-details">
+ <span class="story-views">
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+ <time id="fhtime-102640424" datetime="on Thursday September 06, 2018 @07:20PM">on Thursday September 06, 2018 @07:20PM</time>
+
+
+ from the <span class="dept-text">leak-detecting</span> dept.
+
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+<div class="body" id="fhbody-102640424">
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+ <div id="text-102640424" class="p">
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+ A 28-year-old MIT graduate named You Wu spent six years <a href="https://www.fastcompany.com/90232363/this-leak-seeking-robot-just-won-the-u-s-james-dyson-award">developing a low-cost robot designed to find leaks in pipes early</a>, both to save water and to avoid bigger damage later from bursting water mains. "Called Lighthouse, the robot looks like a badminton birdie," reports Fast Company. "A soft 'skirt' on the device is covered with sensors. As it travels through pipes, propelled by the flowing water, suction tugs at the device when there's a leak, and it records the location, making a map of critical leaks to fix." From the report: <i> MIT doctoral student You Wu spent six years developing the design, building on research that earlier students began under a project sponsored by a university in Saudi Arabia, where most drinking water comes from expensive desalination plants and around a third of it is lost to leaks. It took three years before he had a working prototype. Then Wu got inspiration from an unexpected source: At a party with his partner, he accidentally stepped on her dress. She noticed immediately, unsurprisingly, and Wu realized that he could use a similar skirt-like design on a robot so that the robot could detect subtle tugs from the suction at each leak. Wu graduated from MIT in June, and is now launching the technology through a startup called <a href="http://watchtowerrobotics.com/">WatchTower Robotics</a>. The company will soon begin pilots in Australia and in Cambridge, Massachusetts. One challenge now, he says, is creating a guide so water companies can use the device on their own. </i><br>
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+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Alain+Williams">Alain Williams</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Alain+Williams">( 2972 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266608"></span>
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+ <div id="comment_body_57266608"><p>is he still with his partner who's dress he trod on ?</p></div>
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+</li><li id="hidestring_57266858"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580540&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266858">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="hidestring_57266608"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580540&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266608">2 replies</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266678" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
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+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266678" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266678); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>1</a>, Informative)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span>Anonymous Coward</span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266678"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266678"><p>Congratulations, you reinvented the pig.</p><p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigging" title="wikipedia.org" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...</a> [wikipedia.org]</p></div>
+ </div>
+
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+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266994" name="comment_link_57266994" href="//hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580540&cid=57266994" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266994)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266994" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266994); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~An+Ominous+Coward">An Ominous Coward</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~An+Ominous+Coward">( 13324 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266994"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266994"><p>Ridiculous, how dare you plebeians libel our foremost technology elite. It's MIT, of course what they're doing is utterly novel and deserving of fawning media coverage.</p><p>(<a href="https://puretechltd.com/technology/purerobotics-pipeline-inspection-system/" title="puretechltd.com">https://puretechltd.com/technology/purerobotics-pipeline-inspection-system/</a> [puretechltd.com])</p></div>
+ </div>
+
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+
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+
+<div id="replyto_57266994"></div>
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+
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+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267658"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267658">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267658" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57266704"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580540&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266704">2 replies</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266724" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266724" class="commentstatus"></div>
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+ <div id="comment_top_57266724" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266724" name="comment_link_57266724" href="//hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580540&cid=57266724" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266724)" >They tried that robot in Montreal...</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266724" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266724); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~ls671">ls671</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~ls671">( 1122017 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266724"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266724"><p>I hear they tried that robot in Montreal and it crashed due to memory exhaustion.</p><p>Montreal is one of the oldest city in North America and there are so many leaks in its water system that it loses 30% of its fresh water supply.</p><p>Makes you wonder what is the average water loss in other systems.</p><p><span class="substr"> </span> <a href="https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/by-the-numbers-30-percent-of-montreals-water-is-lost-due-to-leaky-city-pipes" title="montrealgazette.com">https://montrealgazette.com/ne...</a> [montrealgazette.com] </p><p> <a href="https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/city-water-leaks-wasting-millions-of-tax-dollars-1.1048035" title="www.cbc.ca">https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada...</a> [www.cbc.ca]</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266724">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266724"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266724">
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+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266852"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266852">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266852" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267656" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
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+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267656" name="comment_link_57267656" href="//hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580540&cid=57267656" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267656)" >Badminton Birdie?</a>
+
+
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~TechyImmigrant">TechyImmigrant</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~TechyImmigrant">( 175943 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267656"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267656"><p>It's called a shuttlecock you blithering idiot.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
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+
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+ <span class="cmntcnt"><span class="slant"></span><span>1014<span class="hide"> comments</span></span></span><a href="//hardware.slashdot.org/story/18/01/10/002255/jack-in-the-box-ceo-says-it-just-makes-sense-to-replace-workers-with-robots?sdsrc=popbyskidbtmprev">Jack In the Box CEO Says 'It Just Makes Sense' To Replace Workers With Robots</a>
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+ <title>Slashdot: News for nerds, stuff that matters</title>
+ <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
+
+ <meta name="description" content="Slashdot: News for nerds, stuff that matters. Timely news source for technology related news with a heavy slant towards Linux and Open Source issues.">
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+ <meta property="og:title" content="Slashdot: News for nerds, stuff that matters">
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+ var page_type = just_the_root ? 'homepage'
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+ if (page_type.toLowerCase() === 'submission')
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+ else if (page_type.toLowerCase() === 'other')
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+ }
+ function page_section (loc) {
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+ var pathwise = '^/(?:(recent|popular|blog)|stories/([^/]+))';
+ var rootwise = '^\/?$';
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+ var pathwisely = new RegExp(pathwise,'i').exec(loc.pathname);
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+ }
+ }
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+ function unique_tpc_array(array1,array2) {
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+ j.forEach(function (v,i,a) {
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+ });
+ return j.filter(function (v,i,a) {
+ return v != '' && a.indexOf(v) === i;
+ });
+ }
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+ /* LEGEND:
+ - 'sz' = "size"
+ - 'npt' = "no page type" in ad unit name
+ */
+ var tags = {
+ '728x90_A': { 'sz': [[728, 90], [970, 90], [970, 250], [980, 66]] },
+ '728x90_B': { 'sz': [728, 90] },
+ '728x90_C': { 'sz': [728, 90], 'skip': { 'homepage': 1 } },
+ 'HubIcon_200x90_A': { 'sz': [[200, 90], [220, 90]]},
+ 'PowerSwitch_980x66_A': { 'sz': [980, 66], 'skip': { 'homepage': 1 } },
+ 'PollPeel': { 'sz': [200, 90], 'skip': { 'homepage': 1 } },
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+ '300x250_A': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600], [300, 1050]] },
+ '300x250_B': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]] },
+ '300x250_C': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]] },
+ '300x250_D': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]] },
+ 'Pulse_300x600_A': { 'sz': [300, 600] },
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+ //'Poll_300x250_A': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]], 'npt': 1 },
+ //'SD_Story_1x1': { 'sz': [1, 1] },
+ '1x1': { 'sz': [1, 1] }
+ };
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+ //var network_path = '/41014381/Slashdot/';
+ var network_path = '/41014381/Slashdot/';
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+ var tag_name_linkage = '_';
+ var tag_name_pagetype = page_type(location);
+ var tag_topic = page_section(location);
+ if(tag_name_pagetype == 'poll'){
+ tag_name_pagetype = 'Poll';
+ }
+ var before_tag_pagetyped = network_path
+ + tag_name_prefix
+ + tag_name_linkage
+ + tag_name_pagetype
+ + tag_name_linkage
+ ;
+ var before_tag_pagetypeless = network_path
+ + tag_name_prefix
+ + tag_name_linkage
+ /* + tag_name_pagetype */
+ /* + tag_name_linkage */
+ ;
+
+
+ googletag.cmd.push(function() {
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+ function remove_sticky_top() {
+ setTimeout(function(){
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+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_story_728x90_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_Poll_728x90_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_728x90_Ref_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_story_728x90_Ref_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_Poll_728x90_Ref_A":
+ remove_sticky_top();
+ break;
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_300x250_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_story_300x250_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_Poll_300x250_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_300x250_Ref_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_story_300x250_Ref_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_Poll_300x250_Ref_A":
+ remove_sticky_railad();
+ break;
+ }
+ //if(slot[i] === "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_728x90_A") remove_sticky_top();
+ //if(slot[i] === "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_300x250_A") remove_sticky_railad();
+ }
+ }
+ function define_me_a_slot (tag) {
+ if (tags[tag].skip && tags[tag].skip[tag_name_pagetype])
+ return;
+ var sandbox_regex = /\.xb\.sf\.net$/i;
+ var full_name = tags[tag].npt // "no page type"
+ ? before_tag_pagetypeless + tag
+ : before_tag_pagetyped + tag
+ ;
+ var div_id = 'div-gpt-ad-' + tag.toLowerCase();
+
+ var service;
+ // extend jQuery and get URL query params
+ jQuery.extend({
+ getQueryParameters : function(str) {
+ return (str || document.location.search).replace(/(^\?)/,'').split("&").map(function(n){
+ return n = n.split("="),this[n[0]] = n[1],this
+ }.bind({}))[0];
+ }
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+
+ var queryParams = $.getQueryParameters();
+
+ if( queryParams.source === 'autorefresh' ) {
+ full_name = full_name.replace(/(\d+x\d+)/,'$1_Ref');
+ //console.log('TAG NAME: ', full_name);
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+ service = googletag.defineSlot(
+ full_name
+ , tags[tag].sz
+ , div_id
+ ).addService(googletag.pubads());
+
+ service.setTargeting('sz', tags[tag].sz);
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+
+ var frontend_tpc = tag_topic.split(",");
+ var backend_tpc = [ ];
+
+ var tpc_final = unique_tpc_array(frontend_tpc, backend_tpc);
+ service.setTargeting('tpc', tpc_final);
+ if (location.hostname.match(sandbox_regex)) {
+ service.setTargeting('test', 'adops');
+ }
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+ }
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+ for (tag in tags) {
+ define_me_a_slot(tag, false);
+ }
+ googletag.pubads().addEventListener('impressionViewable', function(event) {
+ viewable_imp(event.slot);
+ });
+
+ googletag.pubads().setTargeting('requestSource', 'GPT');
+ googletag.pubads().setRequestNonPersonalizedAds(window.Ads_disallowPersonalization);
+ googletag.pubads().enableAsyncRendering();
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+
+ googletag.pubads().collapseEmptyDivs();
+ window.bizxPrebid.SAFEFRAMES = true;
+ bizxPrebid.Ads.pushToGoogle();
+ googletag.enableServices();
+ });
+})();
+</script>
+
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+<!-- CrossPixel -->
+<script type="text/javascript"> try{(function(){ var cb = new Date().getTime(); var s = document.createElement("script"); s.defer = true; s.src = "//tag.crsspxl.com/s1.js?d=2397&cb="+cb; var s0 = document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0]; s0.parentNode.insertBefore(s, s0); })();}catch(e){} </script>
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+ </nav>
+ <nav class="nav-user" role="navigation" aria-label="user access and account controls">
+ <form id="search" class="form-inline nav-search-form" method="get" action="//slashdot.org/index2.pl">
+<!-- //slashdot.org/index2.pl" -->
+ <div class="form-group">
+ <label class="sr-only" for="sitesearch">Search Slashdot</label>
+ <div class="input-group">
+ <input type="text" id="" class="" name="fhfilter" value="" placeholder="Search">
+ </div>
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+ <button type="submit" class="btn icon-search"></button>
+</form>
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+
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+ <!-- <li><a href="//slashdot.org/topics.pl">more...</a></li> -->
+ </ul>
+</nav>
+<nav class="nav-social" role="social navigation">
+ <ul>
+ <li class="nav-label">Follow us:</li>
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+<div style='height:25px;'> </div>
+ <input type="hidden" name="returnto" value="">
+ <input type="hidden" name="op" value="userlogin">
+ <p>
+ <label class="fleft" for="unickname">Nickname:</label>
+ <input type="text" name="unickname" value="">
+ </p>
+ <p>
+ <label class="fleft" for="upasswd">Password:</label>
+ <input type="password" name="upasswd" placeholder="6-1024 characters long">
+ </p>
+ <label class="checkbox"><input type="checkbox" name="login_temp" value="yes"> Public Terminal</label>
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+ <hr>
+ <input type="submit" name="userlogin" value="Log In" class="fno"> <a href="//slashdot.org/my/mailpassword" class="btn link" onclick="getModalPrefs('sendPasswdModal', 'Retrieve Password', 1); return false;">Forgot your password?</a>
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+
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+ <a class="ico close" onclick="hide_login_slider();" href=""><span>Close</span></a>
+</div>
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+ <span id="title-102641010" class="story-title"> <a onclick="return toggle_fh_body_wrap_return(this);" href="//science.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2153223/study-finds-probiotics-not-as-beneficial-for-gut-health-as-previously-thought">Study Finds Probiotics 'Not As Beneficial For Gut Health As Previously Thought'</a> <span class=" no extlnk"><a class="story-sourcelnk" href="https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/sep/06/probiotics-not-as-beneficial-for-gut-health-as-previously-thought" title="External link - https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/sep/06/probiotics-not-as-beneficial-for-gut-health-as-previously-thought" target="_blank"> (theguardian.com) </a></span></span>
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+ <time id="fhtime-102641010" datetime="on Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM">on Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM</time>
+
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+ from the <span class="dept-text">contrary-to-popular-belief</span> dept.
+
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+ An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Guardian: <i>The gut microbiome is the sum total of all the micro-organisms living in a person's gut, and has been shown to play a huge role in human health. New research has found probiotics -- usually taken as supplements or in foods such as yoghurt, kimchi or kefir -- <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/sep/06/probiotics-not-as-beneficial-for-gut-health-as-previously-thought">can hinder a patient's gut microbiome from returning to normal after a course of antibiotics</a>, and that different people respond to probiotics in dramatically different ways. In the <a href="https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(18)31102-4">first of two papers</a> published in the journal Cell, researchers performed endoscopies and colonoscopies to sample and study the gut microbiomes of people who took antibiotics before and after probiotic consumption. Another group were given samples of their own gut microbiomes collected before consuming antibiotics. The researchers found the microbiomes of those who had taken the probiotics had suffered a "very severe disturbance." "Once the probiotics had colonized the gut, they completely inhibited the return of the indigenous microbiome which was disrupted during antibiotic treatment," said Eran Elinav, an immunologist at the Weizmann Institute of Science in Israel and lead author on the studies.
+<br> <br>
+The scientists also compared the gut microbiomes of the gut intestinal tract of 25 volunteers with that of their stools. They found that stool bacteria only partially correlated with the microbiomes functioning inside their bodies. "So the fact that we all almost exclusively rely on stool in our microbiome research may not be a reliable way of studying gut microbiome health," said Elinav. In the <a href="https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(18)31108-5">second paper</a>, the researchers examined the colonization and impact of probiotics on 15 people by sampling within their gastrointestinal tract. They divided the individuals into two groups: one were given a preparation made of 11 strains of very commonly used probiotics and the other were given a placebo. Of those who were given probiotics, he said, "We could group the individuals into two distinct groups: one which resisted the colonisation of the probiotics, and one in which the probiotics colonized the gut and modified the composition of the gut microbiome and the genes of the host individual."</i><br>
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+ <time id="fhtime-102643378" datetime="on Thursday September 06, 2018 @10:50PM">on Thursday September 06, 2018 @10:50PM</time>
+
+
+ from the <span class="dept-text">sorry-not-sorry</span> dept.
+
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+
+ Earlier today, British Airways said <a href="https://news.sky.com/story/ba-calls-in-police-over-customer-data-theft-from-website-11491980">credit card information of at least 380,000 customers have been "compromised" in a data breach</a> that occurred between August 21 and September 5. The information stolen includes customer names, email addresses, home addresses and payment card information -- but not travel or passport details. Sky News reports: <i> In an email to affected customers, BA said: "We're deeply sorry, but you may have been affected. We recommend that you contact your bank or credit card provider and follow their recommended advice. We take the protection of your personal information very seriously. Please accept our deepest apologies for the worry and inconvenience that this criminal activity has caused." The breach has been "resolved" and the website is "working normally," it said. In a statement, the airline added: "We have notified the police and relevant authorities... [and] will continue to keep our customers updated with the very latest information. We will be contacting customers and will manage any claims on an individual basis." </i><br>
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+ <span id="title-102641672" class="story-title"> <a onclick="return toggle_fh_body_wrap_return(this);" href="//mobile.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/235254/icelanders-seek-to-keep-remote-nordic-peninsula-digital-free">Icelanders Seek To Keep Remote Nordic Peninsula Digital-Free</a> <span class=" no extlnk"><a class="story-sourcelnk" href="https://www.apnews.com/71cdfb7b1c2245069a6f681f8b8f906f/Wired-Icelanders-seek-to-keep-remote-peninsula-digital-free" title="External link - https://www.apnews.com/71cdfb7b1c2245069a6f681f8b8f906f/Wired-Icelanders-seek-to-keep-remote-peninsula-digital-free" target="_blank"> (apnews.com) </a></span></span>
+
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+ <!--<span class="comments commentcnt-102641672" >26</span>-->
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+ <time id="fhtime-102641672" datetime="on Thursday September 06, 2018 @09:25PM">on Thursday September 06, 2018 @09:25PM</time>
+
+
+ from the <span class="dept-text">no-cellphones-allowed</span> dept.
+
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+ Hikers, park rangers, and summer residents of Iceland's northernmost peninsula are <a href="https://www.apnews.com/71cdfb7b1c2245069a6f681f8b8f906f/Wired-Icelanders-seek-to-keep-remote-peninsula-digital-free">seeking to keep the area free from internet service</a>, worrying that all that comes with it "will destroy a way of life that depends on the absence of [email, news, and social media]," reports the Associated Press. "The area has long resisted cell towers, but commercial initiatives could take the decision out of Icelanders' hands and push Hornstrandir across the digital divide." From the report: <i> Despite or because of its remoteness, Iceland ranks first on a U.N. index comparing nations by information technology use, with roughly 98 percent of the population using the internet. Among adults, 93 percent report having Facebook accounts and two-thirds are Snapchat users, according to pollster MMR. Many people who live in northwestern Iceland or visit as outdoor enthusiasts want Hornstrandir's 570 square kilometers (220 square miles), which accounts for 0.6 percent of Iceland's land mass, to be declared a "digital-free zone." The idea hasn't coalesced into a petition or formal campaign, so what it would require or prohibit hasn't been fleshed out. The last full-time resident of the rugged area moved away in 1952 -- it never was an easy place to farm -- but many descendants have turned family farmsteads into summer getaways. </i> Northwest Iceland's representative, Halla Signy Kristjansdottir, is in favor of adding cell towers for the safety of sailors and travelers in the area. "I don't see anything romantic about lying on the ground with a broken thigh bone and no cellphone signal," Kristjansdottir said in an interview.<br>
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+ <span id="title-102640946" class="story-title"> <a onclick="return toggle_fh_body_wrap_return(this);" href="//games.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2146237/valve-explains-how-it-decides-whos-a-straight-up-troll-publishing-video-games-on-steam">Valve Explains How It Decides Who's a 'Straight Up Troll' Publishing Video Games On Steam</a> <span class=" no extlnk"><a class="story-sourcelnk" href="https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/9kmej7/valve-it-really-does-seem-bad-games-are-made-by-bad-people" title="External link - https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/9kmej7/valve-it-really-does-seem-bad-games-are-made-by-bad-people" target="_blank"> (vice.com) </a></span></span>
+
+
+
+ <!--<span class="comments commentcnt-102640946" >32</span>-->
+
+
+
+ <!-- comment bubble -->
+
+ <span class="comment-bubble"><a href="//games.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2146237/valve-explains-how-it-decides-whos-a-straight-up-troll-publishing-video-games-on-steam#comments" title="">32</a></span>
+
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+ Posted
+ by
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+ <a href="https://twitter.com/BeauHD" rel="nofollow">BeauHD</a>
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+
+
+ <time id="fhtime-102640946" datetime="on Thursday September 06, 2018 @08:45PM">on Thursday September 06, 2018 @08:45PM</time>
+
+
+ from the <span class="dept-text">behind-the-scenes</span> dept.
+
+ </span>
+ </div>
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+
+<div class="body" id="fhbody-102640946">
+
+
+
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+ <div id="text-102640946" class="p">
+
+
+ An anonymous reader quotes a report from Motherboard: <i>Wednesday, Valve, the company that operates the huge online video game store Steam, shared more details about <a href="https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/9kmej7/valve-it-really-does-seem-bad-games-are-made-by-bad-people">how it plans to control and moderate the ever-increasing number of games published on its platform</a>. In the post <a href="https://steamcommunity.com/games/593110/announcements/detail/1708442022337025126">published Wednesday</a>, Valve shared more details about how it determines what it considers "outright trolling." "It is vague and we'll tell you why," Valve wrote. "You're a denizen of the internet so you know that trolls come in all forms. On Steam, some are simply trying to rile people up with something we call 'a game shaped object' (ie: a crudely made piece of software that technically and just barely passes our bar as a functioning video game but isn't what 99.9% of folks would say is "good.")
+<br> <br>
+Valve goes on to explain that some trolls are trying to scam folks out of their Steam inventory items (digital items that can be traded for real money), while others are trying to generate a small amount of money through a variety of schemes that have to do with how developers use keys to unlock Steam games, while others are trying to "incite and sow discord." "Trolls are figuring out new ways to be loathsome as we write this," Valve said. "But the thing these folks have in common is that they aren't actually interested in good faith efforts to make and sell games to you or anyone. When a developer's motives aren't that, they're probably a troll." One interesting observation Valve shares in the blog post is that it rarely bans individual games from Steam, and more often bans developers and/or publishers entirely. [...] Valve said that its review process for determining that something may be a "troll game" is a "deep assessment" that involves investigating who the developer is, what they've done in the past, their behavior on Steam as a developer, as a customer, their banking information, developers they associate with, and more.</i><br>
+
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+ data-janrain-title="Valve Explains How It Decides Who's a 'Straight Up Troll' Publishing Video Games On Steam"
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+ <span id="title-102640274" class="story-title"> <a onclick="return toggle_fh_body_wrap_return(this);" href="//news.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2043213/professor-who-coined-term-net-neutrality-thinks-its-time-to-break-up-facebook">Professor Who Coined Term 'Net Neutrality' Thinks It's Time To Break Up Facebook</a> <span class=" no extlnk"><a class="story-sourcelnk" href="https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/4/17816572/tim-wu-facebook-regulation-interview-curse-of-bigness-antitrust" title="External link - https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/4/17816572/tim-wu-facebook-regulation-interview-curse-of-bigness-antitrust" target="_blank"> (theverge.com) </a></span></span>
+
+
+
+ <!--<span class="comments commentcnt-102640274" >61</span>-->
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+ <!-- comment bubble -->
+
+ <span class="comment-bubble"><a href="//news.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2043213/professor-who-coined-term-net-neutrality-thinks-its-time-to-break-up-facebook#comments" title="">61</a></span>
+
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+ Posted
+ by
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+ <a href="https://twitter.com/BeauHD" rel="nofollow">BeauHD</a>
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+
+
+ <time id="fhtime-102640274" datetime="on Thursday September 06, 2018 @08:03PM">on Thursday September 06, 2018 @08:03PM</time>
+
+
+ from the <span class="dept-text">easier-said-than-done</span> dept.
+
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+
+
+ <a href="/~pgmrdlm">pgmrdlm</a> shares a report from The Verge: <i>Best known for coining the phrase "net neutrality" and his book The Master Switch: The Rise and Fall of Information Empires, Wu has a new book coming out in November called <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Curse-Bigness-Antitrust-New-Gilded/dp/0999745468">The Curse of Bigness: Antitrust in the New Gilded Age</a>. In it, he argues compellingly for a return to aggressive antitrust enforcement in the style of Teddy Roosevelt, saying that Google, Facebook, Amazon, and other huge tech companies <a href="https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/4/17816572/tim-wu-facebook-regulation-interview-curse-of-bigness-antitrust">are a threat to democracy as they get bigger and bigger</a>. "We live in America, which has a strong and proud tradition of breaking up companies that are too big for inefficient reasons," Wu told me on this week's Vergecast. "We need to reverse this idea that it's not an American tradition. We've broken up dozens of companies."
+<br> <br>
+"I think if you took a hard look at the acquisition of WhatsApp and Instagram, the argument that the effects of those acquisitions have been anticompetitive would be easy to prove for a number of reasons," says Wu. And breaking up the company wouldn't be hard, he says. "What would be the harm? You'll have three competitors. It's not 'Oh my god, if you get rid of WhatsApp and Instagram, well then the whole world's going to fall apart.' It would be like 'Okay, now you have some companies actually trying to offer you an alternative to Facebook.'" Breaking up Facebook (and other huge tech companies like Google and Amazon) could be simple under the current law, suggests Wu. But it could also lead to a major rethinking of how antitrust law should work in a world where the giant platform companies give their products away for free, and the ability for the government to restrict corporate power seems to be diminishing by the day. And it demands that we all think seriously about the conditions that create innovation. "I think everyone's steering way away from the monopolies, and I think it's hurting innovation in the tech sector," says Wu.</i><br>
+
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+ <span id="title-102640424" class="story-title"> <a onclick="return toggle_fh_body_wrap_return(this);" href="//hardware.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2058201/mit-graduate-creates-robot-that-swims-through-pipes-to-find-out-if-theyre-leaking">MIT Graduate Creates Robot That Swims Through Pipes To Find Out If They're Leaking</a> <span class=" no extlnk"><a class="story-sourcelnk" href="https://www.fastcompany.com/90232363/this-leak-seeking-robot-just-won-the-u-s-james-dyson-award" title="External link - https://www.fastcompany.com/90232363/this-leak-seeking-robot-just-won-the-u-s-james-dyson-award" target="_blank"> (fastcompany.com) </a></span></span>
+
+
+
+ <!--<span class="comments commentcnt-102640424" >18</span>-->
+
+
+
+ <!-- comment bubble -->
+
+ <span class="comment-bubble"><a href="//hardware.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2058201/mit-graduate-creates-robot-that-swims-through-pipes-to-find-out-if-theyre-leaking#comments" title="">18</a></span>
+
+ </h2>
+ <div class="details" id="details-102640424">
+ <span class="story-details">
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+
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+ Posted
+ by
+
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+
+ <a href="https://twitter.com/BeauHD" rel="nofollow">BeauHD</a>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <time id="fhtime-102640424" datetime="on Thursday September 06, 2018 @07:20PM">on Thursday September 06, 2018 @07:20PM</time>
+
+
+ from the <span class="dept-text">leak-detecting</span> dept.
+
+ </span>
+ </div>
+</header>
+
+<div class="body" id="fhbody-102640424">
+
+
+
+
+ <div id="text-102640424" class="p">
+
+
+ A 28-year-old MIT graduate named You Wu spent six years <a href="https://www.fastcompany.com/90232363/this-leak-seeking-robot-just-won-the-u-s-james-dyson-award">developing a low-cost robot designed to find leaks in pipes early</a>, both to save water and to avoid bigger damage later from bursting water mains. "Called Lighthouse, the robot looks like a badminton birdie," reports Fast Company. "A soft 'skirt' on the device is covered with sensors. As it travels through pipes, propelled by the flowing water, suction tugs at the device when there's a leak, and it records the location, making a map of critical leaks to fix." From the report: <i> MIT doctoral student You Wu spent six years developing the design, building on research that earlier students began under a project sponsored by a university in Saudi Arabia, where most drinking water comes from expensive desalination plants and around a third of it is lost to leaks. It took three years before he had a working prototype. Then Wu got inspiration from an unexpected source: At a party with his partner, he accidentally stepped on her dress. She noticed immediately, unsurprisingly, and Wu realized that he could use a similar skirt-like design on a robot so that the robot could detect subtle tugs from the suction at each leak. Wu graduated from MIT in June, and is now launching the technology through a startup called <a href="http://watchtowerrobotics.com/">WatchTower Robotics</a>. The company will soon begin pilots in Australia and in Cambridge, Massachusetts. One challenge now, he says, is creating a guide so water companies can use the device on their own. </i><br>
+
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+ data-janrain-title="MIT Graduate Creates Robot That Swims Through Pipes To Find Out If They're Leaking"
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+ <span id="title-102640864" class="story-title"> <a onclick="return toggle_fh_body_wrap_return(this);" href="//politics.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2137245/blockchains-are-not-safe-for-voting-concludes-nap-report">Blockchains Are Not Safe For Voting, Concludes NAP Report</a> <span class=" no extlnk"><a class="story-sourcelnk" href="https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2018/09/06/technology/ap-us-tec-election-security-reform-report.html" title="External link - https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2018/09/06/technology/ap-us-tec-election-security-reform-report.html" target="_blank"> (nytimes.com) </a></span></span>
+
+
+
+ <!--<span class="comments commentcnt-102640864" >52</span>-->
+
+
+
+ <!-- comment bubble -->
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+ <span class="comment-bubble"><a href="//politics.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2137245/blockchains-are-not-safe-for-voting-concludes-nap-report#comments" title="">52</a></span>
+
+ </h2>
+ <div class="details" id="details-102640864">
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+ Posted
+ by
+
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+
+ <a href="https://twitter.com/BeauHD" rel="nofollow">BeauHD</a>
+
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+
+
+
+
+ <time id="fhtime-102640864" datetime="on Thursday September 06, 2018 @06:40PM">on Thursday September 06, 2018 @06:40PM</time>
+
+
+ from the <span class="dept-text">ensuring-the-integrity-of-elections</span> dept.
+
+ </span>
+ </div>
+</header>
+
+<div class="body" id="fhbody-102640864">
+
+
+
+
+ <div id="text-102640864" class="p">
+
+
+ The National Academies Press has released a 156-page report, called "<a href="https://www.nap.edu/catalog/25120/securing-the-vote-protecting-american-democracy">Securing the Vote: Protecting American Democracy</a>," concluding that blockchains are not safe for the U.S. election system. "While the notion of using a blockchain as an immutable ballot box may seem promising, blockchain technology does little to solve the fundamental security issues of elections, and indeed, blockchains introduce additional security vulnerabilities," the report <a href="https://www.nap.edu/read/25120/chapter/7#103">states</a>. "In particular, if malware on a voter's device alters a vote before it ever reaches a blockchain, the immutability of the blockchain fails to provide the desired integrity, and the voter may never know of the alteration."<br> <br> The report goes on to say that "Blockchains do not provide the anonymity often ascribed to them." It continues: "In the particular context of elections, voters need to be authorized as eligible to vote and as not having cast more than one ballot in the particular election. Blockchains do not offer means for providing the necessary authorization. [...] If a blockchain is used, then cast ballots must be encrypted or otherwise anonymized to prevent coercion and vote-selling." The New York Times summarizes the findings: <i> The cautiously worded report <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2018/09/06/technology/ap-us-tec-election-security-reform-report.html">calls for conducting all federal, state and local elections on paper ballots by 2020</a>. Its other top recommendation would require nationwide use of a specific form of routine postelection audit to ensure votes have been accurately counted. The panel did not offer a price tag for its recommended overhaul. New York University's Brennan Center has estimated that replacing aging voting machines over the next few years could cost well over $1 billion. The 156-page report [...] bemoans a rickety system compromised by insecure voting equipment and software whose vulnerabilities were exposed more than a decade ago and which are too often managed by officials with little training in cybersecurity.
+<br> <br>
+Among its specific recommendations was a mainstay of election reformers: All elections should use human-readable paper ballots by 2020. Such systems are intended to assure voters that their vote was recorded accurately. They also create a lasting record of "voter intent" that can be used for reliable recounts, which may not be possible in systems that record votes electronically. [...] The panel also calls for all states to adopt a type of post-election audit that employs statistical analysis of ballots prior to results certification. Such "risk-limiting" audits are designed to uncover miscounts and vote tampering. Currently only three states mandate them. </i><br>
+
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+ data-janrain-title="Blockchains Are Not Safe For Voting, Concludes NAP Report"
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+
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+
+
+
+ <span id="title-102640098" class="story-title"> <a onclick="return toggle_fh_body_wrap_return(this);" href="//developers.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2024232/software-developers-are-now-more-valuable-to-companies-than-money-says-survey">Software Developers Are Now More Valuable To Companies Than Money, Says Survey</a> <span class=" no extlnk"><a class="story-sourcelnk" href="https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/06/companies-worry-more-about-access-to-software-developers-than-capital.html" title="External link - https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/06/companies-worry-more-about-access-to-software-developers-than-capital.html" target="_blank"> (cnbc.com) </a></span></span>
+
+
+
+ <!--<span class="comments commentcnt-102640098" >97</span>-->
+
+
+
+ <!-- comment bubble -->
+
+ <span class="comment-bubble"><a href="//developers.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2024232/software-developers-are-now-more-valuable-to-companies-than-money-says-survey#comments" title="">97</a></span>
+
+ </h2>
+ <div class="details" id="details-102640098">
+ <span class="story-details">
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+ </span>
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+ <span class="story-byline">
+
+
+ Posted
+ by
+
+
+
+ <a href="https://twitter.com/BeauHD" rel="nofollow">BeauHD</a>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <time id="fhtime-102640098" datetime="on Thursday September 06, 2018 @06:00PM">on Thursday September 06, 2018 @06:00PM</time>
+
+
+ from the <span class="dept-text">new-breed-of-corporate-leaders</span> dept.
+
+ </span>
+ </div>
+</header>
+
+<div class="body" id="fhbody-102640098">
+
+
+
+
+ <div id="text-102640098" class="p">
+
+
+ An anonymous reader quotes a report from CNBC: <i>As our global economy increasingly comes to run on technology-enabled rails and every company becomes a tech company, demand for high-quality software engineers is at an all-time high. A recent study from <a href="https://stripe.com/reports/developer-coefficient-2018">Stripe and Harris Poll</a> found that 61 percent of C-suite executives believe access to developer talent is a threat to the success of their business. Perhaps more surprisingly -- as we mark a decade after the financial crisis -- <a href="https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/06/companies-worry-more-about-access-to-software-developers-than-capital.html">this threat was even ranked above capital constraints</a>. And yet, despite being many corporations' most precious resource, developer talents are all too often squandered. Collectively, companies today lose upward of $300 billion a year paying down "technical debt," as developers pour time into maintaining legacy systems or dealing with the ramifications of bad software. This is especially worrisome, given the outsized impact developers have on companies' chances of success. Software developers don't have a monopoly on good ideas, but their skill set makes them a uniquely deep source of innovation, productivity and new economic connections. When deployed correctly, developers can be economic multipliers -- coefficients that dramatically ratchet up the output of the teams and companies of which they're a part.</i><br>
+
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+ data-janrain-title="Software Developers Are Now More Valuable To Companies Than Money, Says Survey"
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+ <span id="title-102636958" class="story-title"> <a onclick="return toggle_fh_body_wrap_return(this);" href="//news.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1558206/computer-chips-are-still-made-in-usa">Computer Chips Are Still 'Made in USA'</a> <span class=" no extlnk"><a class="story-sourcelnk" href="https://www.axios.com/computer-chips-manufacturing-america--10dcfe13-64f3-4ea9-ad4a-cb189a00429a.html" title="External link - https://www.axios.com/computer-chips-manufacturing-america--10dcfe13-64f3-4ea9-ad4a-cb189a00429a.html" target="_blank"> (axios.com) </a></span></span>
+
+
+
+ <!--<span class="comments commentcnt-102636958" >70</span>-->
+
+
+
+ <!-- comment bubble -->
+
+ <span class="comment-bubble"><a href="//news.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1558206/computer-chips-are-still-made-in-usa#comments" title="">70</a></span>
+
+ </h2>
+ <div class="details" id="details-102636958">
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+
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+ Posted
+ by
+
+
+
+ msmash
+
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+
+
+
+
+ <time id="fhtime-102636958" datetime="on Thursday September 06, 2018 @05:20PM">on Thursday September 06, 2018 @05:20PM</time>
+
+
+ from the <span class="dept-text">how-about-that</span> dept.
+
+ </span>
+ </div>
+</header>
+
+<div class="body" id="fhbody-102636958">
+
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+
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+ <div id="text-102636958" class="p">
+
+
+ For all the wishful thinking about manufacturing more laptops and iPhones in the U.S., there is <a href="https://www.axios.com/computer-chips-manufacturing-america--10dcfe13-64f3-4ea9-ad4a-cb189a00429a.html">one sector of tech manufacturing where America remains a leader: computer chips</a>. From a report:<i> Some $44 billion worth of semiconductors are exported from the U.S. each year, making them America's fourth leading manufacturing export after cars, airplanes and refined oil. There are roughly 80 wafer fabrication plants (aka fabs) in the U.S., spread across 19 states. [...] An even greater share of the world's computer chips are designed domestically and made overseas by companies including Qualcomm, Apple, Broadcom and Nvidia. A bunch of the high-tech gear needed to produce chips is also designed and/or made in the U.S.</i><br>
+
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+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <span id="title-102639856" class="story-title"> <a onclick="return toggle_fh_body_wrap_return(this);" href="//tech.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/205221/ive-seen-the-future-of-consumer-ai-and-it-doesnt-have-one">'I've Seen the Future of Consumer AI, and it Doesn't Have One'</a> <span class=" no extlnk"><a class="story-sourcelnk" href="https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/09/05/consumer_ai_ifa_2018_roundup/" title="External link - https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/09/05/consumer_ai_ifa_2018_roundup/" target="_blank"> (theregister.co.uk) </a></span></span>
+
+
+
+ <!--<span class="comments commentcnt-102639856" >97</span>-->
+
+
+
+ <!-- comment bubble -->
+
+ <span class="comment-bubble"><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/205221/ive-seen-the-future-of-consumer-ai-and-it-doesnt-have-one#comments" title="">97</a></span>
+
+ </h2>
+ <div class="details" id="details-102639856">
+ <span class="story-details">
+ <span class="story-views">
+ <span class="sodify" onclick="firehose_set_options('color', 'red')" title="Filter Firehose to entries rated red or better"></span><span class="icon-beaker pop1 " alt="Popularity" title="Filter Firehose to entries rated red or better" onclick="firehose_set_options('color', 'red')"><span></span></span>
+ </span>
+ </span>
+ <span class="story-byline">
+
+
+ Posted
+ by
+
+
+
+ msmash
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <time id="fhtime-102639856" datetime="on Thursday September 06, 2018 @04:40PM">on Thursday September 06, 2018 @04:40PM</time>
+
+
+ from the <span class="dept-text">there-is-no-spoon</span> dept.
+
+ </span>
+ </div>
+</header>
+
+<div class="body" id="fhbody-102639856">
+
+
+
+
+ <div id="text-102639856" class="p">
+
+
+ Andrew Orlowski of <em>The Register</em> recounts all the gadgets <a href="https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/09/05/consumer_ai_ifa_2018_roundup/">supercharged with AI that he came across at IFA tradeshow last week -- and wonders what value AI brought to the table</a>. He writes:<i> I didn't see a blockchain toothbrush at IFA in Berlin last week, but I'm sure there was one lurking about somewhere. With 30 vast halls to cover, I didn't look too hard for it. But I did see many things almost as tragic that no one could miss -- AI being squeezed into almost every conceivable bit of consumer electronics. But none were convincing. If ever there was a solution looking for a problem, it's ramming AI into gadgets to show of a company's machine learning prowess. For the consumer it adds unreliability, cost and complexity, and the annoyance of being prompted. <br> <br> [...] Back to LG, which takes 2018's prize for sticking AI into a superfluous gadget. The centrepiece of its AI efforts this year is a robot, ClOi. Put Google Assistant or Alexa on wheels, and you have ClOi. I asked the booth person what exactly ClOi could do to be told "it can take notes for your shopping list." Why wasn't this miracle of the Fourth Industrial Revolution let loose on the LG floor? I wondered -- a question answered by this account of ClOi's debut at CES in January. Clearly things haven't improved much -- this robot buddy was kept indoors.</i><br>
+
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+ data-janrain-title="'I've Seen the Future of Consumer AI, and it Doesn't Have One'"
+ data-janrain-message="'I've Seen the Future of Consumer AI, and it Doesn't Have One' @slashdot"
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+ <span class="sd-key-firehose-id">102639752</span>
+ <span class="type">story</span>
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+<header>
+
+ <span class="topic" id="topic-102639752">
+ <a href="//slashdot.org/index2.pl?fhfilter=security" onclick="return addfhfilter('security');">
+
+ <img src="//a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/security_64.png" width="64" height="64" alt="Security" title="Security">
+
+ </a>
+ </span>
+
+
+ <h2 class="story">
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <span id="title-102639752" class="story-title"> <a onclick="return toggle_fh_body_wrap_return(this);" href="//tech.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1954253/400000-websites-vulnerable-through-exposed-git-directories">400,000 Websites Vulnerable Through Exposed<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.git Directories</a> <span class=" no extlnk"><a class="story-sourcelnk" href="https://www.scmagazine.com/home/news/400000-websites-vulnerable-through-exposed-git-directories/" title="External link - https://www.scmagazine.com/home/news/400000-websites-vulnerable-through-exposed-git-directories/" target="_blank"> (scmagazine.com) </a></span></span>
+
+
+
+ <!--<span class="comments commentcnt-102639752" >32</span>-->
+
+
+
+ <!-- comment bubble -->
+
+ <span class="comment-bubble"><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1954253/400000-websites-vulnerable-through-exposed-git-directories#comments" title="">32</a></span>
+
+ </h2>
+ <div class="details" id="details-102639752">
+ <span class="story-details">
+ <span class="story-views">
+ <span class="sodify" onclick="firehose_set_options('color', 'red')" title="Filter Firehose to entries rated red or better"></span><span class="icon-beaker pop1 " alt="Popularity" title="Filter Firehose to entries rated red or better" onclick="firehose_set_options('color', 'red')"><span></span></span>
+ </span>
+ </span>
+ <span class="story-byline">
+
+
+ Posted
+ by
+
+
+
+ msmash
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <time id="fhtime-102639752" datetime="on Thursday September 06, 2018 @04:00PM">on Thursday September 06, 2018 @04:00PM</time>
+
+
+ from the <span class="dept-text">security-woes</span> dept.
+
+ </span>
+ </div>
+</header>
+
+<div class="body" id="fhbody-102639752">
+
+
+
+
+ <div id="text-102639752" class="p">
+
+
+ Open .git directories are a bigger cybersecurity problem than many might imagine, at least according to a Czech security researcher who <a href="https://www.scmagazine.com/home/news/400000-websites-vulnerable-through-exposed-git-directories/">discovered almost 400,000 web pages with an open .git directory</a> possibly exposing a wide variety of data. From a report:<i> Vladimir Smitka began his .git directory odyssey in July when he began looking at Czech websites to find how many were improperly configured and allow access to their .git folders within the file versions repository. Open .git directories are a particularly dangerous issue, he said, because they can contain a great deal of sensitive information. "Information about the website's structure, and sometimes you can get very sensitive data such as database passwords, API keys, development IDE settings, and so on. However, this data shouldn't be stored in the repository, but in previous scans of various security issues, I have found many developers that do not follow these best practices," Smitka wrote. Smitka queried 230 million websites to discover the 390,000 allowing access to their .git directories. The vast majority of the websites with open directories had a .com TLD with .net, .de, .org and uk comprising most of the others.</i><br>
+
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+ data-janrain-title="400,000 Websites Vulnerable Through Exposed .git Directories"
+ data-janrain-message="400,000 Websites Vulnerable Through Exposed .git Directories @slashdot"
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+ <span class="sd-key-firehose-id">102639448</span>
+ <span class="type">story</span>
+
+ </span>
+
+
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+
+<header>
+
+ <span class="topic" id="topic-102639448">
+ <a href="//slashdot.org/index2.pl?fhfilter=business" onclick="return addfhfilter('business');">
+
+ <img src="//a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/business_64.png" width="64" height="64" alt="Businesses" title="Businesses">
+
+ </a>
+ </span>
+
+
+ <h2 class="story">
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <span id="title-102639448" class="story-title"> <a onclick="return toggle_fh_body_wrap_return(this);" href="//games.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1921222/eve-online-studio-acquired-by-korean-mmo-maker">'Eve Online' Studio Acquired By Korean MMO Maker</a> <span class=" no extlnk"><a class="story-sourcelnk" href="https://www.engadget.com/2018/09/06/eve-online-pearl-abyss-ccp-games/" title="External link - https://www.engadget.com/2018/09/06/eve-online-pearl-abyss-ccp-games/" target="_blank"> (engadget.com) </a></span></span>
+
+
+
+ <!--<span class="comments commentcnt-102639448" >57</span>-->
+
+
+
+ <!-- comment bubble -->
+
+ <span class="comment-bubble"><a href="//games.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1921222/eve-online-studio-acquired-by-korean-mmo-maker#comments" title="">57</a></span>
+
+ </h2>
+ <div class="details" id="details-102639448">
+ <span class="story-details">
+ <span class="story-views">
+ <span class="sodify" onclick="firehose_set_options('color', 'red')" title="Filter Firehose to entries rated red or better"></span><span class="icon-beaker pop1 " alt="Popularity" title="Filter Firehose to entries rated red or better" onclick="firehose_set_options('color', 'red')"><span></span></span>
+ </span>
+ </span>
+ <span class="story-byline">
+
+
+ Posted
+ by
+
+
+
+ msmash
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <time id="fhtime-102639448" datetime="on Thursday September 06, 2018 @03:22PM">on Thursday September 06, 2018 @03:22PM</time>
+
+
+ from the <span class="dept-text">in-some-business-news</span> dept.
+
+ </span>
+ </div>
+</header>
+
+<div class="body" id="fhbody-102639448">
+
+
+
+
+ <div id="text-102639448" class="p">
+
+
+ <a href="/~MAXOMENOS">MAXOMENOS</a> writes: <i> <i>EVE Online</i> developer CCP Games <a href="https://www.ccpgames.com/news/2018/black-desert-online-creators-pearl-abyss-to-acquire-ccp-games-makers-of-eve">has been acquired by Pearl Abyss</a>, the South Korean studio behind the action-oriented MMORPG Black Desert Online. According to <a href="https://venturebeat.com/2018/09/06/black-desert-online-creator-pearl-abyss-acquires-eve-online-maker-ccp-games-for-425-million/">VentureBeat</a>, the deal was worth $425 million and will close in early October. It's a surprise announcement for CCP, which has long operated as an independent developer. Eve Online isn't the biggest MMORPG on the market, but it has maintained a steady and loyal userbase through continuous updates and a well-timed switch to a hybrid premium and free-to-play model. The 15-year-old game is unique, too, with its large-scale battles and notoriously complex economic and political systems.</i><br>
+
+ </div>
+
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+ <aside class="novote">
+
+ </aside>
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+ class="janrainSocialPlaceholder"
+ data-janrain-url="https://games.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1921222/eve-online-studio-acquired-by-korean-mmo-maker"
+ data-janrain-title="'Eve Online' Studio Acquired By Korean MMO Maker"
+ data-janrain-message="'Eve Online' Studio Acquired By Korean MMO Maker @slashdot"
+ ></div>
+
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+ <span class="sd-key-firehose-id">102638976</span>
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+
+ <span class="topic" id="topic-102638976">
+ <a href="//slashdot.org/index2.pl?fhfilter=chrome" onclick="return addfhfilter('chrome');">
+
+ <img src="//a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/chrome_64.png" width="64" height="64" alt="Chrome" title="Chrome">
+
+ </a>
+ </span>
+
+
+ <h2 class="story">
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <span id="title-102638976" class="story-title"> <a onclick="return toggle_fh_body_wrap_return(this);" href="//tech.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1839242/google-investigating-issue-with-blurry-fonts-on-new-chrome-69">Google Investigating Issue With Blurry Fonts on new Chrome 69</a> <span class=" no extlnk"><a class="story-sourcelnk" href="https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-investigating-issue-with-blurry-fonts-on-new-chrome-69/" title="External link - https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-investigating-issue-with-blurry-fonts-on-new-chrome-69/" target="_blank"> (zdnet.com) </a></span></span>
+
+
+
+ <!--<span class="comments commentcnt-102638976" >59</span>-->
+
+
+
+ <!-- comment bubble -->
+
+ <span class="comment-bubble"><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1839242/google-investigating-issue-with-blurry-fonts-on-new-chrome-69#comments" title="">59</a></span>
+
+ </h2>
+ <div class="details" id="details-102638976">
+ <span class="story-details">
+ <span class="story-views">
+ <span class="sodify" onclick="firehose_set_options('color', 'red')" title="Filter Firehose to entries rated red or better"></span><span class="icon-beaker pop1 " alt="Popularity" title="Filter Firehose to entries rated red or better" onclick="firehose_set_options('color', 'red')"><span></span></span>
+ </span>
+ </span>
+ <span class="story-byline">
+
+
+ Posted
+ by
+
+
+
+ msmash
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <time id="fhtime-102638976" datetime="on Thursday September 06, 2018 @02:40PM">on Thursday September 06, 2018 @02:40PM</time>
+
+
+ from the <span class="dept-text">blurry-texts</span> dept.
+
+ </span>
+ </div>
+</header>
+
+<div class="body" id="fhbody-102638976">
+
+
+
+
+ <div id="text-102638976" class="p">
+
+
+ Since the <a href="https://tech.slashdot.org/story/18/09/04/1711250/chrome-69-arrives-with-revamped-design-more-powerful-omnibox-and-better-password-manager">release of Chrome 69 earlier this week</a>, countless of users have gone on social media and Google Product Forums to <a href="https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-investigating-issue-with-blurry-fonts-on-new-chrome-69/">complain about "blurry" or "fuzzy" text inside Chrome</a>. ZDNet:<i> The blurred font issue isn't only limited to text rendered inside a web page, users said, but also for the text suggestions displayed inside the address bar search drop-down, and Chrome's Developer Tools panel. [...] According to reports, the issue only manifests for Chrome 69 users on Windows. Those who rolled back to Chrome 68 stopped having problems. Users said that changing Chrome, operating system, or screen DPI settings didn't help. "Our team is investigating reports of this behavior. You can find more information in this public bug report," a Google spokesperson said last night after first user complaints started surfacing online.</i> Some users have also expressed concerns over Chrome not showing <a href="https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=881410">"trivial subdomains" including <em>www</em></a> and secure lock sign in the address bar.<br>
+
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+ data-janrain-title="Google Investigating Issue With Blurry Fonts on new Chrome 69"
+ data-janrain-message="Google Investigating Issue With Blurry Fonts on new Chrome 69 @slashdot"
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+ <span class="sd-key-firehose-id">102637536</span>
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+ <a href="//slashdot.org/index2.pl?fhfilter=firefox" onclick="return addfhfilter('firefox');">
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+ <img src="//a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/firefox_64.png" width="64" height="64" alt="Firefox" title="Firefox">
+
+ </a>
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+ <h2 class="story">
+
+
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+
+
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+
+
+
+
+ <span id="title-102637536" class="story-title"> <a onclick="return toggle_fh_body_wrap_return(this);" href="//yro.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1651255/tor-browser-gets-a-redesign-switches-to-new-firefox-quantum-engine">Tor Browser Gets a Redesign, Switches To New Firefox Quantum Engine</a> <span class=" no extlnk"><a class="story-sourcelnk" href="https://www.zdnet.com/article/tor-browser-gets-a-redesign-switches-to-new-firefox-quantum-engine/" title="External link - https://www.zdnet.com/article/tor-browser-gets-a-redesign-switches-to-new-firefox-quantum-engine/" target="_blank"> (zdnet.com) </a></span></span>
+
+
+
+ <!--<span class="comments commentcnt-102637536" >44</span>-->
+
+
+
+ <!-- comment bubble -->
+
+ <span class="comment-bubble"><a href="//yro.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1651255/tor-browser-gets-a-redesign-switches-to-new-firefox-quantum-engine#comments" title="">44</a></span>
+
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+ <div class="details" id="details-102637536">
+ <span class="story-details">
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+ Posted
+ by
+
+
+
+ msmash
+
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+
+
+ <time id="fhtime-102637536" datetime="on Thursday September 06, 2018 @02:00PM">on Thursday September 06, 2018 @02:00PM</time>
+
+
+ from the <span class="dept-text">for-the-record</span> dept.
+
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+<div class="body" id="fhbody-102637536">
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+
+ The Tor Browser has <a href="https://www.zdnet.com/article/tor-browser-gets-a-redesign-switches-to-new-firefox-quantum-engine/">rolled out a new interface with the release of v8</a>. From a report:<i> The Tor Browser has always been based on the Firefox codebase, but it lagged behind a few releases. Mozilla rolled out a major overhaul of the Firefox codebase in November 2017, with the release of Firefox 57, <a href="https://news.slashdot.org/story/17/11/25/1938225/firefox-quantum-is-better-faster-smarter-than-chrome-says-wired">the first release in the Firefox Quantum series</a>. Firefox Quantum came with a new page rendering engine, a new add-ons API, and a new user interface called the Photon UI. Because these were major, code-breaking changes, it took the smaller Tor team some time to integrate all of them into the Tor Browser codebase and make sure everything worked as intended. The new Tor Browser 8, released yesterday, is now in sync with the most recent version of Firefox, the Quantum release, and also supports all of its features. This means the Tor Browser now uses the same modern Photon UI that current Firefox versions use, it supports the same speed-optimized page rendering engine and has also dropped support for the old XUL-based add-ons system for the new WebExtensions API system used by Chrome, Opera, Vivaldi, Brave, and the rest of the Chromium browsers.</i><br>
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+ <span id="title-102637868" class="story-title"> <a onclick="return toggle_fh_body_wrap_return(this);" href="//hardware.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1719243/robot-boat-sails-into-history-by-finishing-atlantic-crossing">Robot Boat Sails Into History By Finishing Atlantic Crossing</a> <span class=" no extlnk"><a class="story-sourcelnk" href="https://www.apnews.com/f6d0e2a099684468873ab48966590ada" title="External link - https://www.apnews.com/f6d0e2a099684468873ab48966590ada" target="_blank"> (apnews.com) </a></span></span>
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+ msmash
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+ <time id="fhtime-102637868" datetime="on Thursday September 06, 2018 @01:20PM">on Thursday September 06, 2018 @01:20PM</time>
+
+
+ from the <span class="dept-text">impressive-feat</span> dept.
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+<div class="body" id="fhbody-102637868">
+
+
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+ <div id="text-102637868" class="p">
+
+
+ An anonymous reader writes: <i>For the first time an autonomous sailing robot has completed the <a href="https://www.microtransat.org/">Microtransat Challenge</a> by <a href="https://www.apnews.com/f6d0e2a099684468873ab48966590ada">crossing the Atlantic from Newfoundland, Canada to Ireland</a>. The Microtransat has been running since 2010 and has seen 23 previous entries all fail to make it across. The successful boat, <a href="https://www.microtransat.org/2018_sailbuoy_boat.php">SB Met</a> was built by the Norwegian company <a href="http://sailbuoy.no/">Offshore Sensing AS</a> and is only 2 metres (6.5 ft) long. It completed the crossing on August 26th, 79 days and 5000 km (3100 miles) of sailing after departing Newfoundland on June 7th.</i> <b>Further reading:</b> <a href="https://science.slashdot.org/story/18/05/16/228245/a-fleet-of-sailing-robots-sets-out-to-quantify-the-oceans">A Fleet of Sailing Robots Sets Out To Quantify the Oceans</a>.<br>
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+ 380,000 Card Payments Compromised In British Airways Breach
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+ Tor Browser Gets a Redesign, Switches To New Firefox Quantum Engine
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+ One Year After the Massive Equifax Data Breach, Pretty Much Nothing Has Changed
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+
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+ DOJ: We Will Examine Social Media Firms That 'May Be Hurting Competition'
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+
+
+<tr>
+ <td class="thisday-yr">
+ 2012
+ </td>
+ <td>
+ <a href="//ask.slashdot.org/story/12/09/07/1720206/ask-slashdot-how-would-you-fix-the-linux-desktop?sbsrc=thisday">Ask Slashdot: How Would You Fix the Linux Desktop?</a>
+ </td>
+ <td>
+ <span style="" class="cmntcnt"><span style="background:#333" class="slant"></span><span style="background: #333; color:#fff; font-weight:bold; font-size:.85em">1154<span class="hide"> comments</span></span></span>
+ </td>
+</tr>
+
+
+<tr>
+ <td class="thisday-yr">
+ 2011
+ </td>
+ <td>
+ <a href="//news.slashdot.org/story/11/09/07/1344205/marx-may-have-had-a-point?sbsrc=thisday">Marx May Have Had a Point</a>
+ </td>
+ <td>
+ <span style="" class="cmntcnt"><span style="background:#333" class="slant"></span><span style="background: #333; color:#fff; font-weight:bold; font-size:.85em">1271<span class="hide"> comments</span></span></span>
+ </td>
+</tr>
+
+
+<tr>
+ <td class="thisday-yr">
+ 2009
+ </td>
+ <td>
+ <a href="//games.slashdot.org/story/09/09/07/1417255/police-swarm-bungie-office-over-halo-replica-rifle?sbsrc=thisday">Police Swarm Bungie Office Over <em>Halo</em> Replica Rifle</a>
+ </td>
+ <td>
+ <span style="" class="cmntcnt"><span style="background:#333" class="slant"></span><span style="background: #333; color:#fff; font-weight:bold; font-size:.85em">746<span class="hide"> comments</span></span></span>
+ </td>
+</tr>
+
+
+<tr>
+ <td class="thisday-yr">
+ 2007
+ </td>
+ <td>
+ <a href="//ask.slashdot.org/story/07/09/07/1242212/name-your-favorite-bloat-free-software?sbsrc=thisday">Name Your Favorite Bloat-Free Software</a>
+ </td>
+ <td>
+ <span style="" class="cmntcnt"><span style="background:#333" class="slant"></span><span style="background: #333; color:#fff; font-weight:bold; font-size:.85em">1296<span class="hide"> comments</span></span></span>
+ </td>
+</tr>
+
+
+<tr>
+ <td class="thisday-yr">
+ 2004
+ </td>
+ <td>
+ <a href="//news.slashdot.org/story/04/09/06/1722203/the-underground-history-of-american-education?sbsrc=thisday">The Underground History of American Education</a>
+ </td>
+ <td>
+ <span style="" class="cmntcnt"><span style="background:#333" class="slant"></span><span style="background: #333; color:#fff; font-weight:bold; font-size:.85em">1346<span class="hide"> comments</span></span></span>
+ </td>
+</tr>
+
+</tbody></table>
+
+ </section>
+ </article><article id="sourceforge2" class="nosort">
+ <header id="sourceforge2-title">
+ <h2><a href="">Sourceforge Top Downloads</a></h2>
+ </header>
+ <section class="b" id="sourceforge2-content">
+ <ul class="sf_widget">
+<li>
+<a onclick="trackLink(this, 'sfSlashboxDownloadLink', 'https://sourceforge.net/projects/corefonts/?source=sd_slashbox'); return false;" href="https://sourceforge.net/projects/corefonts/?source=sd_slashbox" title="Microsoft's TrueType core fonts">
+TrueType core fonts <span class="sf-size">2.2B downloads</span></a>
+</li>
+<li>
+<a onclick="trackLink(this, 'sfSlashboxDownloadLink', 'https://sourceforge.net/projects/npppluginmgr/?source=sd_slashbox'); return false;" href="https://sourceforge.net/projects/npppluginmgr/?source=sd_slashbox" title="Notepad++ Plugin Manager (old repo)">
+Notepad++ Plugin Mgr <span class="sf-size">1.5B downloads</span></a>
+</li>
+<li>
+<a onclick="trackLink(this, 'sfSlashboxDownloadLink', 'https://sourceforge.net/projects/vlc/?source=sd_slashbox'); return false;" href="https://sourceforge.net/projects/vlc/?source=sd_slashbox" title="VLC media player">
+VLC media player <span class="sf-size">899M downloads</span></a>
+</li>
+<li>
+<a onclick="trackLink(this, 'sfSlashboxDownloadLink', 'https://sourceforge.net/projects/emule/?source=sd_slashbox'); return false;" href="https://sourceforge.net/projects/emule/?source=sd_slashbox" title="eMule">
+eMule <span class="sf-size">686M downloads</span></a>
+</li>
+<li>
+<a onclick="trackLink(this, 'sfSlashboxDownloadLink', 'https://sourceforge.net/projects/mingw/?source=sd_slashbox'); return false;" href="https://sourceforge.net/projects/mingw/?source=sd_slashbox" title="MinGW - Minimalist GNU for Windows">
+MinGW <span class="sf-size">631M downloads</span></a>
+</li>
+</ul>
+<div id="sf-logo">
+<p>Powered By</p>
+<a onclick="trackLink(this, 'sfSlashboxHomeLink', 'https://sourceforge.net/?source=sd_slashbox'); return false;" href="https://sourceforge.net/?source=sd_slashbox">sf</a>
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+ <title>380,000 Card Payments Compromised In British Airways Breach - Slashdot</title>
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+
+ <meta name="description" content="Earlier today, British Airways said credit card information of at least 380,000 customers have been "compromised" in a data breach that occurred between August 21 and September 5. The information stolen includes customer names, email addresses, home addresses and payment card information -- but not ...">
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+ <meta property="og:title" content="380,000 Card Payments Compromised In British Airways Breach - Slashdot">
+ <meta property="og:description" content="Earlier today, British Airways said credit card information of at least 380,000 customers have been "compromised" in a data breach that occurred between August 21 and September 5. The information stolen includes customer names, email addresses, home addresses and payment card information -- but not ...">
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+ break;
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+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_story_300x250_A":
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+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_story_300x250_Ref_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_Poll_300x250_Ref_A":
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+ googletag.pubads().setTargeting('requestSource', 'GPT');
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+
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+
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+
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+
+ <span id="title-102643378" class="story-title"> <a href="//it.slashdot.org/story/18/09/07/0247228/380000-card-payments-compromised-in-british-airways-breach">380,000 Card Payments Compromised In British Airways Breach</a> <span class=" no extlnk"><a class="story-sourcelnk" href="https://news.sky.com/story/ba-calls-in-police-over-customer-data-theft-from-website-11491980" title="External link - https://news.sky.com/story/ba-calls-in-police-over-customer-data-theft-from-website-11491980" target="_blank"> (sky.com) </a></span></span>
+
+
+
+ <!--<span class="comments commentcnt-102643378" >18</span>-->
+
+
+
+ <!-- comment bubble -->
+
+ <span class="comment-bubble"><a href="//it.slashdot.org/story/18/09/07/0247228/380000-card-payments-compromised-in-british-airways-breach#comments" title="">18</a></span>
+
+ </h2>
+ <div class="details" id="details-102643378">
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+ </span>
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+ <span class="story-byline">
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+ Posted
+ by
+
+
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+ <a href="https://twitter.com/BeauHD" rel="nofollow">BeauHD</a>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <time id="fhtime-102643378" datetime="on Thursday September 06, 2018 @10:50PM">on Thursday September 06, 2018 @10:50PM</time>
+
+
+ from the <span class="dept-text">sorry-not-sorry</span> dept.
+
+ </span>
+ </div>
+</header>
+
+<div class="body" id="fhbody-102643378">
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <div id="text-102643378" class="p">
+
+
+ Earlier today, British Airways said <a href="https://news.sky.com/story/ba-calls-in-police-over-customer-data-theft-from-website-11491980">credit card information of at least 380,000 customers have been "compromised" in a data breach</a> that occurred between August 21 and September 5. The information stolen includes customer names, email addresses, home addresses and payment card information -- but not travel or passport details. Sky News reports: <i> In an email to affected customers, BA said: "We're deeply sorry, but you may have been affected. We recommend that you contact your bank or credit card provider and follow their recommended advice. We take the protection of your personal information very seriously. Please accept our deepest apologies for the worry and inconvenience that this criminal activity has caused." The breach has been "resolved" and the website is "working normally," it said. In a statement, the airline added: "We have notified the police and relevant authorities... [and] will continue to keep our customers updated with the very latest information. We will be contacting customers and will manage any claims on an individual basis." </i><br>
+
+ </div>
+
+
+
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+ <div class="units-12 story-detail-tags">
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+ class="janrainSocialPlaceholder"
+ data-janrain-url="https://it.slashdot.org/story/18/09/07/0247228/380000-card-payments-compromised-in-british-airways-breach"
+ data-janrain-title="380,000 Card Payments Compromised In British Airways Breach"
+ data-janrain-message="380,000 Card Payments Compromised In British Airways Breach @slashdot"
+ ></div>
+ </div>
+
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+
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+ <h3><a title="Next story" href="//science.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2153223/study-finds-probiotics-not-as-beneficial-for-gut-health-as-previously-thought?sdsrc=next">→</a></h3>
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+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~johnsnails">johnsnails</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~johnsnails">( 1715452 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
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+<div id="comment_57267450" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267450"></div>
+
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+ <li id="hiddens_57267450" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57267404"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580968&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57267404">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="hidestring_57267390"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580968&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57267390">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="hidestring_57267368"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580968&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57267368">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="hidestring_57267348"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580968&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57267348">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="hidestring_57267342"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580968&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57267342">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="hidestring_57267320"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580968&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57267320">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57267346" class="comment full contain"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267346" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267346" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267346" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267346" name="comment_link_57267346" href="//it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580968&cid=57267346" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267346)" >And that should be really expensive for them</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267346" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267346); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>5</a>, Insightful)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~gweihir">gweihir</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~gweihir">( 88907 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267346">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:03PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580968&cid=57267346">#57267346</a>)
+ <small> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267346"><p>Say, $100 per customer, payable to the customer for their hassle. But likely this will not cost them a thing. So it will happen again and again and again.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267346">
+<span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57267346" class="btn link" href="//it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580968&op=Reply&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57267346" onclick="D2.replyTo(57267346); return false;">Reply to This</a> <a href="#" class="comment_share_toggle btn link">Share</a>
+ <div class="comment_share sharethis-0 hide"><span class="au"></span>
+ <a class="janrain t" href="#" data-provider="twitter" data-message="And that should be really expensive for them by gweihir @slashdot" data-url="https://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580968&cid=57267346" data-title="And that should be really expensive for them">twitter</a>
+ <a class="janrain f" href="#" data-provider="facebook" data-message="And that should be really expensive for them by gweihir" data-url="https://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580968&cid=57267346" data-title="And that should be really expensive for them">facebook</a>
+ <a class="janrain l" href="#" data-provider="linkedin" data-message="And that should be really expensive for them by gweihir" data-url="https://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580968&cid=57267346" data-title="And that should be really expensive for them">linkedin</a>
+ <a class="g" href="https://plus.google.com/share?url=https://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580968%26cid=57267346" onclick="javascript:window.open(this.href,'', 'menubar=no,toolbar=no,resizable=yes,scrollbars=yes,height=600,width=600');return false;"><img src="//www.gstatic.com/images/icons/gplus-16.png" alt="Share on Google+"/></a>
+ </div>
+ <span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57267346" title="Flag this comment as Inappropriate" class="ui-icon flag fright" href="//it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580968&op=flag&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57267346" onclick="return false;">Flag as Inappropriate</a>
+</div>
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+
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+
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+ <li id="hiddens_57267346" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
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+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267400"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267400">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267400" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267530" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267530" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267530" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267530"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267530">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267530" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57267530"><li id="tree_57267580" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267580" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267580" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267580"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267580">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267580" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57267530"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580968&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57267530">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="hidestring_57267346"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580968&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57267346">3 replies</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57267364" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267364" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267364" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267364" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267364" name="comment_link_57267364" href="//it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580968&cid=57267364" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267364)" >For 380,000 ...</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267364" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267364); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~CaptainDork">CaptainDork</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~CaptainDork">( 3678879 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267364"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267364"><p>... years, the universe was in an expanding opaque plasma state so dense that photons could not travel very far.</p><p>Coincidence?</p><p>Yes, I'm sure of it.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267364">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267364"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267364">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267364" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267408" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267408" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267408" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267408"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267408">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267408" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267446" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267446" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267446" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267446"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267446">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267446" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267534" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267534" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267534" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267534" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267534" name="comment_link_57267534" href="//it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580968&cid=57267534" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267534)" >What else is new.</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267534" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267534); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Hallux-F-Sinister">Hallux-F-Sinister</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Hallux-F-Sinister">( 5127197 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267534"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267534"><p>-Sigh-.</p><p>This is why we can’t have nice things.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267534">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267534"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267534">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267534" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267554" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267554" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267554" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267554"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267554">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267554" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267666" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267666" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267666" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267666" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267666" name="comment_link_57267666" href="//it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580968&cid=57267666" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267666)" >Not enough</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267666" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267666); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~hcs_%24reboot">hcs_$reboot</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~hcs_%24reboot">( 1536101 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267666"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267666">"We take the protection of your personal information very seriously" Almost insulting to put that in the email sent to affected clients.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267666">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267666"></div>
+
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+ <span class="cmntcnt"><span class="slant"></span><span>510<span class="hide"> comments</span></span></span><a href="//it.slashdot.org/story/17/11/09/235253/doj-strong-encryption-that-we-dont-have-access-to-is-unreasonable?sdsrc=popbyskidbtmprev">DOJ: Strong Encryption That We Don't Have Access To Is 'Unreasonable'</a>
+ </li>
+
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+ </li>
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+ <span class="cmntcnt"><span class="slant"></span><span>445<span class="hide"> comments</span></span></span><a href="//it.slashdot.org/story/18/06/09/0219229/should-developers-abandon-agile?sdsrc=popbyskidbtmprev">Should Developers Abandon Agile?</a>
+ </li>
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+ if (sz[0] instanceof Array) {
+ for (size in sz) {
+ sizes.push(single_size(sz[size]));
+ }
+ return sizes.join(',');
+ } else {
+ return single_size(sz);
+ }
+ }
+
+ function unique_tpc_array(array1,array2) {
+ var j = array1.concat(array2);
+ j.forEach(function (v,i,a) {
+ a[i] = v.replace(/[^_a-z]/ig, '');
+ });
+ return j.filter(function (v,i,a) {
+ return v != '' && a.indexOf(v) === i;
+ });
+ }
+
+ /* LEGEND:
+ - 'sz' = "size"
+ - 'npt' = "no page type" in ad unit name
+ */
+ var tags = {
+ '728x90_A': { 'sz': [[728, 90], [970, 90], [970, 250], [980, 66]] },
+ '728x90_B': { 'sz': [728, 90] },
+ '728x90_C': { 'sz': [728, 90], 'skip': { 'homepage': 1 } },
+ 'HubIcon_200x90_A': { 'sz': [[200, 90], [220, 90]]},
+ 'PowerSwitch_980x66_A': { 'sz': [980, 66], 'skip': { 'homepage': 1 } },
+ 'PollPeel': { 'sz': [200, 90], 'skip': { 'homepage': 1 } },
+ //'VideoWidget_300x250': { 'sz': [300, 250], 'npt': 1 },
+ '300x250_A': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600], [300, 1050]] },
+ '300x250_B': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]] },
+ '300x250_C': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]] },
+ '300x250_D': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]] },
+ 'Pulse_300x600_A': { 'sz': [300, 600] },
+ //'Polls_Detail_300x250_A': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]], 'npt': 1 },
+ //'Poll_300x250_A': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]], 'npt': 1 },
+ //'SD_Story_1x1': { 'sz': [1, 1] },
+ '1x1': { 'sz': [1, 1] }
+ };
+
+ //var network_path = '/41014381/Slashdot/';
+ var network_path = '/41014381/Slashdot/';
+ var tag_name_prefix = 'SD';
+ var tag_name_linkage = '_';
+ var tag_name_pagetype = page_type(location);
+ var tag_topic = page_section(location);
+ if(tag_name_pagetype == 'poll'){
+ tag_name_pagetype = 'Poll';
+ }
+ var before_tag_pagetyped = network_path
+ + tag_name_prefix
+ + tag_name_linkage
+ + tag_name_pagetype
+ + tag_name_linkage
+ ;
+ var before_tag_pagetypeless = network_path
+ + tag_name_prefix
+ + tag_name_linkage
+ /* + tag_name_pagetype */
+ /* + tag_name_linkage */
+ ;
+
+
+ googletag.cmd.push(function() {
+
+ function remove_sticky_top() {
+ setTimeout(function(){
+ $('#div-gpt-ad-728x90_a').parent('div').addClass('adwrap-viewed-banner');
+ $('#div-gpt-ad-728x90_a').addClass('viewableImpression');
+ }, 1000);
+ }
+ function remove_sticky_railad() {
+ setTimeout(function(){
+ $('#slashboxes .adwrap-unviewed').addClass('adwrap-viewed-railad');
+ $('.railad').addClass('viewableImpression');
+ }, 1000);
+ }
+ function viewable_imp (slot) {
+ for(var i in slot) {
+ if(typeof slot[i] !== 'string') continue;
+ switch(slot[i]){
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_728x90_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_story_728x90_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_Poll_728x90_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_728x90_Ref_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_story_728x90_Ref_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_Poll_728x90_Ref_A":
+ remove_sticky_top();
+ break;
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_300x250_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_story_300x250_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_Poll_300x250_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_300x250_Ref_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_story_300x250_Ref_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_Poll_300x250_Ref_A":
+ remove_sticky_railad();
+ break;
+ }
+ //if(slot[i] === "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_728x90_A") remove_sticky_top();
+ //if(slot[i] === "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_300x250_A") remove_sticky_railad();
+ }
+ }
+ function define_me_a_slot (tag) {
+ if (tags[tag].skip && tags[tag].skip[tag_name_pagetype])
+ return;
+ var sandbox_regex = /\.xb\.sf\.net$/i;
+ var full_name = tags[tag].npt // "no page type"
+ ? before_tag_pagetypeless + tag
+ : before_tag_pagetyped + tag
+ ;
+ var div_id = 'div-gpt-ad-' + tag.toLowerCase();
+
+ var service;
+ // extend jQuery and get URL query params
+ jQuery.extend({
+ getQueryParameters : function(str) {
+ return (str || document.location.search).replace(/(^\?)/,'').split("&").map(function(n){
+ return n = n.split("="),this[n[0]] = n[1],this
+ }.bind({}))[0];
+ }
+ });
+
+ var queryParams = $.getQueryParameters();
+
+ if( queryParams.source === 'autorefresh' ) {
+ full_name = full_name.replace(/(\d+x\d+)/,'$1_Ref');
+ //console.log('TAG NAME: ', full_name);
+ }
+
+ service = googletag.defineSlot(
+ full_name
+ , tags[tag].sz
+ , div_id
+ ).addService(googletag.pubads());
+
+ service.setTargeting('sz', tags[tag].sz);
+
+
+ var frontend_tpc = tag_topic.split(",");
+ var backend_tpc = [ "earth", "cellphones", "technology", "network", "digital", "communications", "mobile", "iceland" ];
+
+ var tpc_final = unique_tpc_array(frontend_tpc, backend_tpc);
+ service.setTargeting('tpc', tpc_final);
+ if (location.hostname.match(sandbox_regex)) {
+ service.setTargeting('test', 'adops');
+ }
+
+ }
+
+ for (tag in tags) {
+ define_me_a_slot(tag, false);
+ }
+ googletag.pubads().addEventListener('impressionViewable', function(event) {
+ viewable_imp(event.slot);
+ });
+
+ googletag.pubads().setTargeting('requestSource', 'GPT');
+ googletag.pubads().setRequestNonPersonalizedAds(window.Ads_disallowPersonalization);
+ googletag.pubads().enableAsyncRendering();
+
+
+ googletag.pubads().collapseEmptyDivs();
+ window.bizxPrebid.SAFEFRAMES = true;
+ bizxPrebid.Ads.pushToGoogle();
+ googletag.enableServices();
+ });
+})();
+</script>
+
+
+
+<!-- CrossPixel -->
+<script type="text/javascript"> try{(function(){ var cb = new Date().getTime(); var s = document.createElement("script"); s.defer = true; s.src = "//tag.crsspxl.com/s1.js?d=2397&cb="+cb; var s0 = document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0]; s0.parentNode.insertBefore(s, s0); })();}catch(e){} </script>
+
+<!-- AdBlock Check -->
+<script>
+var isAdBlockActive = true;
+</script>
+<script async src="//a.fsdn.com/sd/js/scripts/ad.js?8f5016a67a2f2048"></script>
+
+</head>
+<body class="anon firehose ">
+
+
+ <script src="//a.fsdn.com/sd/all-minified.js?8f5016a67a2f2048" type="text/javascript"></script>
+
+
+ <script type="text/javascript">
+(function(){
+var regexp=/\s*(?:\d+|many)\s+more\s*/i;
+
+
+ var auto_more_count = 1;
+
+ function auto_more(){
+ var $more_link = $('#more-experiment a');
+ $more_link.each(function(){
+ var $lastitem = $('#firehoselist>article.fhitem:visible:last');
+ if ( Bounds.intersect(window, $lastitem) ) {
+
+
+ !--auto_more_count && (auto_more=undefined);
+ // don't allow a call till the next paginate gets built and |more_possible|
+ $(document).unbind('scroll', call_auto_more);
+ }
+ });
+ };
+
+ function call_auto_more(){ auto_more && auto_more(); }
+
+
+$('#more-experiment a').
+ live('more-possible', function( event ){
+ var $more_link=$(this);
+ if ( regexp.test($more_link.text()) ) {
+
+ $(document).bind('scroll', call_auto_more);
+ } else {
+ $(document).unbind('scroll', call_auto_more);
+
+ }
+ });
+})();
+</script>
+ <!--[if lt IE 9]><script src="//a.fsdn.com/sd/html5.js"></script><![endif]-->
+
+
+ <script type="text/javascript">
+ (function() {
+ if (typeof window.janrain !== 'object') window.janrain = {};
+ if (typeof window.janrain.settings !== 'object') window.janrain.settings = {};
+
+ /* _______________ can edit below this line _______________ */
+
+ janrain.settings.tokenUrl = 'https://slashdot.org/token_callback.pl';
+ janrain.settings.type = 'embed';
+ janrain.settings.appId = 'ggidemlconlmjciiohla';
+ janrain.settings.appUrl = 'https://login.slashdot.org';
+ janrain.settings.providers = [
+ 'googleplus',
+ 'facebook',
+ 'twitter',
+ 'linkedin'];
+ janrain.settings.providersPerPage = '5';
+ janrain.settings.format = 'one column';
+ janrain.settings.actionText = 'Sign in with';
+ janrain.settings.showAttribution = false;
+ janrain.settings.fontColor = '#666666';
+ janrain.settings.fontFamily = 'lucida grande, Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif';
+ janrain.settings.backgroundColor = '#ffffff';
+ janrain.settings.width = '300';
+ janrain.settings.borderColor = '#cccccc';
+ janrain.settings.borderRadius = '5'; janrain.settings.buttonBorderColor = '#CCCCCC';
+ janrain.settings.buttonBorderRadius = '0';
+ janrain.settings.buttonBackgroundStyle = 'gray';
+ janrain.settings.language = '';
+ janrain.settings.linkClass = 'janrainEngage';
+
+ /* _______________ can edit above this line _______________ */
+
+ function isReady() { janrain.ready = true; };
+ if (document.addEventListener) {
+ document.addEventListener("DOMContentLoaded", isReady, false);
+ } else {
+ window.attachEvent('onload', isReady);
+ }
+
+ var e = document.createElement('script');
+ e.type = 'text/javascript';
+ e.id = 'janrainAuthWidget';
+
+ e.src = 'https://rpxnow.com/js/lib/login.slashdot.org/engage.js';
+
+ var s = document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0];
+ s.parentNode.insertBefore(e, s);
+ })();
+ </script>
+
+ <script src="//cdn-social.janrain.com/social/janrain-social.min.js"></script>
+ <script type="text/javascript">
+ (function($) {
+ $(function(){
+ janrain.settings.appUrl = "https://login.slashdot.org";
+ $twitter = $('body .janrain_twitterButton');
+ $twitter.append('<i class="icon-twitter"></i>');
+
+ janrain.settings.social = {
+ providers: [
+ "native-facebook",
+ "twitter",
+ "linkedin",
+ "native-googleplus",
+ "native-reddit"
+ ],
+ shareCountMin: "100",
+ shareCountMode: "combined"
+ };
+ });
+ })($j);
+ </script>
+ <!-- index2_variant ||-->
+
+ <!-- TABOOLA -->
+ <script type="text/javascript">
+ if (!window.is_euro_union) {
+ window._taboola = window._taboola || [];
+ _taboola.push({home:'auto'});
+ !function (e, f, u) {
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+ e.src = u;
+ f.parentNode.insertBefore(e, f);
+ }(document.createElement('script'),
+ document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0],
+ '//cdn.taboola.com/libtrc/slashdot/loader.js');
+ }
+ </script>
+
+ <!-- html-header type=current end --><!-- header type=current begin -->
+
+
+
+ <link rel="top" title="News for nerds, stuff that matters" href="//slashdot.org/" >
+<link rel="search" title="Search Slashdot" href="//mobile.slashdot.org/search.pl">
+<link rel="alternate" title="Slashdot RSS" href="http://rss.slashdot.org/Slashdot/slashdotMain" type="application/rss+xml">
+ <link rel="shortcut icon" href="/favicon.ico" type="image/x-icon">
+
+
+ <div id="top_parent"></div>
+ <a name="topothepage"></a>
+
+ <div class="container">
+ <div class="nav-wrap">
+ <nav class="nav-primary" role="navigation" aria-label="Global Navigation">
+ <h1 class="logo">
+ <a href="//slashdot.org"><span>Slashdot</span></a>
+</h1>
+
+<ul class="nav-site">
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org"><i class="icon-book" title="Stories"></i><span>Stories</span></a></li>
+ <li>
+ <ul class="filter-firehose">
+ <li class="nav-label">Firehose <i class="icon-angle-right"></i></li>
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org/recent">All</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org/popular">Popular</a></li>
+ </ul>
+ </li>
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org/polls"><i class="icon-chart-bar" title="Polls"></i><span>Polls</span></a></li>
+
+ <!--
+ <li><a href="//ask.slashdot.org"><i class="icon-question-circle"></i><span>Ask</span></a></li>
+
+ <li><a href="//events.slashdot.org"><i class="icon-calendar"></i><span>Events</span></a></li>
+ -->
+ <li><a href="http://deals.slashdot.org/?utm_source=slashdot&utm_medium=navbar&utm_campaign=dealshp_1" target="_blank"><i class="sd-mini" title="Deals"></i> <span>Deals</span></a></li>
+</ul>
+<a href="//slashdot.org/submission" class="btn btn-success">Submit</a>
+ </nav>
+ <nav class="nav-user" role="navigation" aria-label="user access and account controls">
+ <form id="search" class="form-inline nav-search-form" method="get" action="//slashdot.org/index2.pl">
+<!-- //mobile.slashdot.org/index2.pl" -->
+ <div class="form-group">
+ <label class="sr-only" for="sitesearch">Search Slashdot</label>
+ <div class="input-group">
+ <input type="text" id="" class="" name="fhfilter" value="" placeholder="Search">
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <button type="submit" class="btn icon-search"></button>
+</form>
+<ul class="user-access">
+
+
+ <li >
+ <a href="//slashdot.org/my/login" onclick="show_login_box(); return false;"><i class="icon-login"></i><span> Login</span></a>
+
+ </li>
+
+
+
+ <li class="nav-label">or</li>
+
+
+
+ <li >
+ <a href="//slashdot.org/my/newuser" ><i class="icon-user-add"></i><span> Sign up</span></a>
+
+ </li>
+
+
+</ul>
+ </nav>
+ </div>
+ <div class="nav-secondary-wrap">
+ <nav class="nav-secondary" role="secondary-navigation">
+ <ul>
+ <li class="nav-label">Topics: </li>
+ <li><a href="//devices.slashdot.org">Devices</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//build.slashdot.org">Build</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//entertainment.slashdot.org">Entertainment</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//technology.slashdot.org">Technology</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org/?fhfilter=opensource">Open Source</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//science.slashdot.org">Science</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//yro.slashdot.org">YRO</a></li>
+ <!-- <li><a href="//slashdot.org/topics.pl">more...</a></li> -->
+ </ul>
+</nav>
+<nav class="nav-social" role="social navigation">
+ <ul>
+ <li class="nav-label">Follow us:</li>
+ <li><a href="http://rss.slashdot.org/Slashdot/slashdotMain" target="_blank"><i class="icon-rss-squared"></i><span class="sr-only">RSS</span></a></li>
+ <li><a href="http://www.facebook.com/slashdot" target="_blank"><i class="icon-facebook-squared"></i><span class="sr-only">Facebook</span></a></li>
+ <li><a href="https://plus.google.com/112601993642376762846/" target="_blank"><i class="icon-gplus-squared"></i><span class="sr-only">Google+</span></a></li>
+ <li><a href="http://twitter.com/slashdot" target="_blank"><i class="icon-twitter-squared"></i><span class="sr-only">Twitter</span></a></li>
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org/newsletter" target="_blank"><i class="icon-mail-squared"></i><span class="sr-only">Newsletter</span></a></li>
+ </ul>
+</nav>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+
+ <section>
+
+ <div class="message-bar" id="firehose-message-tray">
+ <span class="icon-quote-left"></span>
+ <p>
+
+
+ Follow <a href="//slashdot.org/blog">Slashdot blog</a> updates by <a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/SlashdotSitenews">subscribing to our blog RSS feed</a>
+
+ </p>
+ </div>
+
+
+ <div id='embbeded_login_modal' class="hide">
+<form action="https://slashdot.org/my/login" method="post" onsubmit="if (global_returnto) { this.returnto.value = global_returnto }" class="embedded"><fieldset style="-webkit-border-radius:10px 10px 0 0;border-radius:10px 10px 0 0;-moz-border-radius:10px 10px 0 0">
+<div style='height:25px;'> </div>
+ <input type="hidden" name="returnto" value="">
+ <input type="hidden" name="op" value="userlogin">
+ <p>
+ <label class="fleft" for="unickname">Nickname:</label>
+ <input type="text" name="unickname" value="">
+ </p>
+ <p>
+ <label class="fleft" for="upasswd">Password:</label>
+ <input type="password" name="upasswd" placeholder="6-1024 characters long">
+ </p>
+ <label class="checkbox"><input type="checkbox" name="login_temp" value="yes"> Public Terminal</label>
+ <br>
+ <hr>
+ <input type="submit" name="userlogin" value="Log In" class="fno"> <a href="//slashdot.org/my/mailpassword" class="btn link" onclick="getModalPrefs('sendPasswdModal', 'Retrieve Password', 1); return false;">Forgot your password?</a>
+</fieldset></form>
+
+<div id="janrainEngageEmbed"></div>
+<div class="actions">
+ <a class="ico close" onclick="hide_login_slider();" href=""><span>Close</span></a>
+</div>
+</div>
+
+
+ <div class="banner-wrapper">
+ <div class="adwrap adwrap-unviewed banner-contain">
+
+ <div id='div-gpt-ad-728x90_a'><script type='text/javascript'>
+googletag.cmd.push(function(){
+googletag.display('div-gpt-ad-728x90_a');});</script></div>
+ <div id='div-gpt-ad-hubicon_200x90_a'><script type='text/javascript'>
+googletag.cmd.push(function(){
+googletag.display('div-gpt-ad-hubicon_200x90_a');});</script></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+
+ <a name="main-articles"></a>
+
+ <!-- header type=current end --><!-- body begin -->
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <style type="text/css">
+menu, menu * {
+ text-decoration:none;
+}
+
+menu[type=context] {
+ display:none;
+ position:absolute;
+ z-index:10000;
+}
+
+menu[type=context]:not(.brief) {
+ background-color:#dfdfdf;
+ margin:0;
+ padding:2px 0.5em;
+ border-style:solid;
+ border-width:1px;
+ border-color:#eeeeee #aaaaaa #aaaaaa #eeeeee;
+ -moz-border-radius-topright:.7em;
+ -webkit-border-top-right-radius: 0.7em 0.7em;
+}
+
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+ -moz-border-radius-topright:.6em;
+ -webkit-border-top-right-radius: 0.6em 0.6em;
+}
+
+
+
+menu.brief[type=context] > a {
+ -moz-border-radius:.6em;
+ -webkit-border-radius: 0.6em;
+ color:#ffffff;
+ background-color:#000000;
+}
+
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+span.briefmenu a.tag:not(.datatype) {
+ padding-left:.5em;
+}
+*/
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+
+
+
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+ margin:-0.1em -0.5em;
+ cursor:pointer;
+}
+
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+article aside.view_mode .share { min-width:120px; padding-top:.5em; }
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+
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+ display:inline-block;
+ height:22px;
+ width:22px;
+ margin: 2px 10px 0 0;
+ color:rgb(255,255,255);
+ text-decoration:none;
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+ text-align:center;
+ font-weight:bold;
+ font-size:14px;
+ border-width:1px;
+ border-style:solid;
+ border-color:rgba(0,0,0,0.5);
+}
+
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+
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+.vote .up, .vote .down, .votedup .up, .votedup .down, .voteddown .up, .voteddown .down { border-radius: 4px; -moz-border-radius: 4px; -webkit-border-radius: 4px; /* text-shadow:0 0 2px #000000; }*/}
+article:not(.fhitem-story) .vote .up,article:not(.fhitem-story) .vote .down,article:not(.fhitem-story) .votedup .up,article:not(.fhitem-story) .votedup .down,article:not(.fhitem-story) .voteddown .up,article:not(.fhitem-story) .voteddown .down { /*text-shadow:none !important; */}
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+article.fhitem-story .votedup .up,article.fhitem-story .voteddown .down {background: rgb(0,66,66);background-image: -webkit-gradient(linear, 0% 0%, 0% 100%, from(rgb(0,53,53)), to(rgb(0,102,102)));background-image: -moz-linear-gradient(100% 100% 90deg,rgb(0,102,102), rgb(0,53,53) 100%);}
+
+
+
+
+#tag-menu span.var-tag {
+font-weight:normal;
+color:#444444;
+}
+
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+padding:0 .25em 0 .25em;
+font-size:80%;
+-moz-border-radius:.5em;
+-webkit-border-radius:.5em;
+cursor:pointer;
+}
+
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+ <span class="sd-key-firehose-id">102641672</span>
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+ <h2 class="story">
+
+
+
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+
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+
+
+
+
+ <span id="title-102641672" class="story-title"> <a href="//mobile.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/235254/icelanders-seek-to-keep-remote-nordic-peninsula-digital-free">Icelanders Seek To Keep Remote Nordic Peninsula Digital-Free</a> <span class=" no extlnk"><a class="story-sourcelnk" href="https://www.apnews.com/71cdfb7b1c2245069a6f681f8b8f906f/Wired-Icelanders-seek-to-keep-remote-peninsula-digital-free" title="External link - https://www.apnews.com/71cdfb7b1c2245069a6f681f8b8f906f/Wired-Icelanders-seek-to-keep-remote-peninsula-digital-free" target="_blank"> (apnews.com) </a></span></span>
+
+
+
+ <!--<span class="comments commentcnt-102641672" >26</span>-->
+
+
+
+ <!-- comment bubble -->
+
+ <span class="comment-bubble"><a href="//mobile.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/235254/icelanders-seek-to-keep-remote-nordic-peninsula-digital-free#comments" title="">26</a></span>
+
+ </h2>
+ <div class="details" id="details-102641672">
+ <span class="story-details">
+ <span class="story-views">
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+ </span>
+ </span>
+ <span class="story-byline">
+
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+ Posted
+ by
+
+
+
+ <a href="https://twitter.com/BeauHD" rel="nofollow">BeauHD</a>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <time id="fhtime-102641672" datetime="on Thursday September 06, 2018 @09:25PM">on Thursday September 06, 2018 @09:25PM</time>
+
+
+ from the <span class="dept-text">no-cellphones-allowed</span> dept.
+
+ </span>
+ </div>
+</header>
+
+<div class="body" id="fhbody-102641672">
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <div id="text-102641672" class="p">
+
+
+ Hikers, park rangers, and summer residents of Iceland's northernmost peninsula are <a href="https://www.apnews.com/71cdfb7b1c2245069a6f681f8b8f906f/Wired-Icelanders-seek-to-keep-remote-peninsula-digital-free">seeking to keep the area free from internet service</a>, worrying that all that comes with it "will destroy a way of life that depends on the absence of [email, news, and social media]," reports the Associated Press. "The area has long resisted cell towers, but commercial initiatives could take the decision out of Icelanders' hands and push Hornstrandir across the digital divide." From the report: <i> Despite or because of its remoteness, Iceland ranks first on a U.N. index comparing nations by information technology use, with roughly 98 percent of the population using the internet. Among adults, 93 percent report having Facebook accounts and two-thirds are Snapchat users, according to pollster MMR. Many people who live in northwestern Iceland or visit as outdoor enthusiasts want Hornstrandir's 570 square kilometers (220 square miles), which accounts for 0.6 percent of Iceland's land mass, to be declared a "digital-free zone." The idea hasn't coalesced into a petition or formal campaign, so what it would require or prohibit hasn't been fleshed out. The last full-time resident of the rugged area moved away in 1952 -- it never was an easy place to farm -- but many descendants have turned family farmsteads into summer getaways. </i> Northwest Iceland's representative, Halla Signy Kristjansdottir, is in favor of adding cell towers for the safety of sailors and travelers in the area. "I don't see anything romantic about lying on the ground with a broken thigh bone and no cellphone signal," Kristjansdottir said in an interview.<br>
+
+ </div>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ </div>
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+
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+ data-janrain-url="https://mobile.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/235254/icelanders-seek-to-keep-remote-nordic-peninsula-digital-free"
+ data-janrain-title="Icelanders Seek To Keep Remote Nordic Peninsula Digital-Free"
+ data-janrain-message="Icelanders Seek To Keep Remote Nordic Peninsula Digital-Free @slashdot"
+ ></div>
+ </div>
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+ <h3>You may like to read:</h3>
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+ <a href="//games.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2146237/valve-explains-how-it-decides-whos-a-straight-up-troll-publishing-video-games-on-steam?sdsrc=prev">Valve Explains How It Decides Who's a 'Straight Up Troll' Publishing Video Games On Steam </a>
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+ <div class="grid_12">
+ <span class="c">
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <h2><a href="//mobile.slashdot.org/story/18/06/02/0645252/why-no-one-answers-their-phone-anymore?sdsrc=popbyskid">Why No One Answers Their Phone Anymore</a><br></h2>
+ <h2><a href="//mobile.slashdot.org/story/18/05/17/2129211/ask-slashdot-which-is-the-safest-router?sdsrc=popbyskid">Ask Slashdot: Which Is the Safest Router?</a><br></h2>
+ <h2><a href="//mobile.slashdot.org/story/17/09/17/2214251/can-an-individual-still-resist-the-spread-of-technology?sdsrc=popbyskid">Can An Individual Still Resist The Spread of Technology?</a><br></h2>
+ <h2><a href="//mobile.slashdot.org/story/18/01/29/0224236/trump-team-considers-nationalizing-americas-5g-network?sdsrc=popbyskid">Trump Team Considers Nationalizing America's 5G Network</a><br></h2>
+ <h2><a href="//mobile.slashdot.org/story/17/12/19/2135240/your-phone-may-send-you-blue-alerts-to-warn-you-when-local-police-are-in-danger?sdsrc=popbyskid">Your Phone May Send You 'Blue Alerts' To Warn You When Local Police Are In Danger</a><br></h2>
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+
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+
+ <a href="//it.slashdot.org/story/18/09/07/0247228/380000-card-payments-compromised-in-british-airways-breach?sdsrc=next">380,000 Card Payments Compromised In British Airways Breach</a>
+
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+ <span class="escape-link"><a href="//mobile.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/235254/icelanders-seek-to-keep-remote-nordic-peninsula-digital-free" title="Back to Article - Icelanders Seek To Keep Remote Nordic Peninsula Digital-Free">Icelanders Seek To Keep Remote Nordic Peninsula Digital-Free</a></span>
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Crashmarik">Crashmarik</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Crashmarik">( 635988 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267048">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @09:31PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580710&cid=57267048">#57267048</a>)
+ <small> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267048"><p>You're out in the wilderness and somebody's WiFi is screwing up the colors of the forest and making everything look strange, while the cell towers are driving the wildlife nuts. / sarcasm</p><p>I'd love to hear these people justify how this in anyway diminishes them.</p></div>
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+
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+ <a class="janrain t" href="#" data-provider="twitter" data-message="Yeah it's real annoying by Crashmarik @slashdot" data-url="https://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580710&cid=57267048" data-title="Yeah it's real annoying ">twitter</a>
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+<ul id="commtree_57267048"><li id="tree_57267118" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
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+
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+<div id="comment_status_57267130" class="commentstatus"></div>
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+ <div id="comment_top_57267130" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267130" name="comment_link_57267130" href="//mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580710&cid=57267130" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267130)" >Because people no longer have self discipline?</a>
+
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+ <span id="comment_score_57267130" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267130); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>3</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~thesupraman">thesupraman</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~thesupraman">( 179040 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267130"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267130"><p>Because they CAN get Farcebook, I guess they Must get Farcebook.<br>I mean, you would think they could just choose to turn off their devices, not bring a charger, whatever.</p><p>Although knowing people from such areas, I suspect it is more about giving one big finger to 'thems city folks' (even if most of these people live in the cit\y most of the time).</p><p>Anyway, good on them for caring, but good luck in keeping such things out. The safety point is also quite valid.</p></div>
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+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~ShanghaiBill">ShanghaiBill</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~ShanghaiBill">( 739463 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
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+ <div id="comment_body_57267402"><p><div class="quote"><p>I mean, you would think they could just choose to turn off their devices</p></div><p>They don't want to just stop using Facebook, they want their NEIGHBORS to stop using it too.</p><p>This isn't about self-control. It is about controlling others, which is a near universal human desire.</p></div>
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+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~e3m4n">e3m4n</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~e3m4n">( 947977 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
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+ <div id="comment_body_57267410"><p>exactly. I just posted a more descriptive explanation of that very thing a thread above this one. Sometimes it's easier to buy a vacation that makes the choice for you, than having to, repeatedly, make the same choice throughout the entire vacation. Picking a destination that has no access means you can re-focus on other forms of entertainment. Its easy to fall back into habits. By picking a spot with no access, you are not fighting temptation, and i dare say withdrawal, the entire time. The price of vacati<span class="substr"> </span></p></div>
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+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Rei">Rei</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Rei">( 128717 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267306">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @10:50PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580710&cid=57267306">#57267306</a>)
+ <small><a href="http://www.cursor.org/" title="http://www.cursor.org/" class="user_homepage_display">Homepage</a> </small>
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+ <div id="comment_body_57267306"><p>Forest? *snicker*. Here's the joke everyone over the age of 8 here knows:</p><p>Q: What do you do if you get lost in an Icelandic forest?<br>A: Stand up.</p><p>I've actually not been to Hornstrandir; it's been on my TODO list for a long, long time, but I've lacked one of the obligatory "round tuits". So it's actually surprising to hear that there's <i>not</i> internet access (via cell towers) there, because in general even the most remote places here have cell access. When Bárðarbunga erupted, deep in the highlands, the eruption was livestreamed. And there's a lot more people in Vestfirðir then in the highlands!</p><p>This would of course be more about visitors than residents, given that there's no permanent residents in Hornstrandir. And in some ways I can sympathize. For example, there's always a lot of opposition to improving the highland roads because we don't want to have more cars driving through and tons of people flooding in, and driving really fast on some paved road would totally change the experience of going into the highlands... it would just turn into a set of "sites to see" rather than a journey. The effect of the isolation on you can really be profound. You feel like a person exploring Mars - so tiny in an endless empty expanse, completely devoid of any signs of human civilization except the half-bulldozed-out "road" you take, the endless travel punctured by rushes of adrenaline as you try to ford a river or trying to avoid ruining your car crossing a lava field. And people who know that experience generally don't want to see it altered. So I imagine it's the same thing for Hornstrandir. The difference being, as previously mentioned, in much of the highlands there's cell coverage. At least as far as I know, when I go out I'm not checking Facebook all the time.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;) But I don't recall any meaningful loss of coverage events.</p><p>ED: Just checked <a href="https://i2.wp.com/www.icelandnorthernlightshq.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Screen-Shot-2015-06-27-at-09.57.16.png?ssl=1" title="wp.com">a map</a> [wp.com] from my cell provider. Looks like most of Hornstrandir is indeed marked in white (no coverage), while most of the highlands is light blue (2G) or in some places blue (3G) - even a good chunk of Vatnajökull (largest glacier in Europe).</p></div>
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+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~e3m4n">e3m4n</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~e3m4n">( 947977 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267396"></span>
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+ <div id="comment_body_57267396"><p>Actually this intrigues me. I go on cruises for the same getaway. Sure one can declare a weekend of no devices or technology, but theres always something that comes up that eventually screws that up. I go on cruises with the family and we do not buy the internet package. The fact that its ridiculously expensive helps 'cut the cord' when on vacation. The most online time the kids ever experience is when we pull into a port and visit a place that has 'free wifi'; giving them 30-60 min of checking their email<span class="substr"> </span></p></div>
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+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~GumphMaster">GumphMaster</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~GumphMaster">( 772693 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267678"></span>
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+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267678"><p><div class="quote"><p>You're out in the wilderness and somebody's<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p><span class="substr"> </span></div><p>bloody mobile phone is playing something loosely called "music" over the shittiest, tinny piezoelectric "speaker" you ever heard. I have personally experienced this scenario while walking the Milford Track (NZ) and in Torres del Payne (Chile). I can only imagine how much worse it would be _with_ coverage: Youtube videos turned up to 11, incessant need to share the latest "news" from home, inattentive walking in dangerous places etc. If your region's livelihood depends on people coming to experience wil</p></div>
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+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267104" name="comment_link_57267104" href="//mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580710&cid=57267104" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267104)" >Satellite Internet</a>
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~crow">crow</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~crow">( 16139 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267104"></span>
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+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267104"><p>We may only be a few years away from Starlink or something similar providing practical high-bandwidth Internet service globally. So they may hold back the tide a bit longer, but the reality is that modern communications will become a fact of life everywhere for anyone that wants it. Yes, that will mean some significant changes to the lifestyles of the people living there, and yes, it won't all be for the better, but I don't see the point of fighting it now.</p></div>
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+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~rossdee">rossdee</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~rossdee">( 243626 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
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+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267166"><p>How far north are we talking about? Satellite coverage is always going to be a problem at the poles</p></div>
+ </div>
+
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+
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+ </div>
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+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~quenda">quenda</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~quenda">( 644621 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267258">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @10:31PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580710&cid=57267258">#57267258</a>)
+ <small> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267258"><p><div class="quote"><p> Satellite coverage is always going to be a problem at the poles</p></div><p>No, that applies to geosynchronous broadcast satellites, but not to LEO constellations such as Starlink or Irridium.</p></div>
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+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~crow">crow</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~crow">( 16139 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
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+ <div id="comment_body_57267266"><p>Good point. A quick look at Google Maps suggests around 66 degrees north. I'm not the best a geography, and I had thought Iceland was a bit further south. I didn't realize it was north of the southern tip of Greenland. That could well be outside the range of satellite Internet, depending on the orbits involved. I have no idea what the plans are.</p></div>
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+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Mashiki">Mashiki</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Mashiki">( 184564 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
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+ <div id="comment_body_57267362"><p>Seem to remember there was active satellite links in Resolute, Nvt.(74deg/N), so I don't think that's a problem. The real problem was the astronomical cost of those links, short of a stationary polar orbit satellite there is no real way to keep it cheap. So they've been building fiber as a replacement since 2012ish for the far north remote communities at least here in Canada. I think Resolute was finished in 2016ish or so.</p></div>
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+</li></ul></li></ul></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57267158" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267158" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267158" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267158"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267158">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267158" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267160" class="comment full contain"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267160" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267160" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267160" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267160" name="comment_link_57267160" href="//mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580710&cid=57267160" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267160)" >Fuck yes.</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267160" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267160); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>3</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~DogDude">DogDude</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~DogDude">( 805747 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267160">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @09:59PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580710&cid=57267160">#57267160</a>)
+ <small> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267160">Fuck yes, I fucking love Icelanders. I'm so sick of seeing smartphone zombies everywhere. The addicts and the stupid will be addicted and stupid anywhere there's an Internet connection. What a wonderful, thoughtful, human decision to make. Wonderful idea.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267160">
+<span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57267160" class="btn link" href="//mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580710&op=Reply&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57267160" onclick="D2.replyTo(57267160); return false;">Reply to This</a> <a href="#" class="comment_share_toggle btn link">Share</a>
+ <div class="comment_share sharethis-0 hide"><span class="au"></span>
+ <a class="janrain t" href="#" data-provider="twitter" data-message="Fuck yes. by DogDude @slashdot" data-url="https://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580710&cid=57267160" data-title="Fuck yes.">twitter</a>
+ <a class="janrain f" href="#" data-provider="facebook" data-message="Fuck yes. by DogDude" data-url="https://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580710&cid=57267160" data-title="Fuck yes.">facebook</a>
+ <a class="janrain l" href="#" data-provider="linkedin" data-message="Fuck yes. by DogDude" data-url="https://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580710&cid=57267160" data-title="Fuck yes.">linkedin</a>
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+ </div>
+ <span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57267160" title="Flag this comment as Inappropriate" class="ui-icon flag fright" href="//mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580710&op=flag&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57267160" onclick="return false;">Flag as Inappropriate</a>
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+
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+</ul>
+
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+<div id="comment_status_57267302" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267302" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267302" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267302" name="comment_link_57267302" href="//mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580710&cid=57267302" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267302)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267302" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267302); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Gojira+Shipi-Taro">Gojira Shipi-Taro</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Gojira+Shipi-Taro">( 465802 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267302"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267302"><p>I don't see it as thoughtful or "human" at all. Simply reactionary.</p><p>As long as EVERYONE in that area agrees, fine.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267302">
+
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+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267302"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267302">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267302" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
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+<div id="comment_status_57267174" class="commentstatus"></div>
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+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267174"></div>
+
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+ <li id="hiddens_57267174" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267246" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
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+
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+<div id="comment_57267624" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267624"></div>
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+<ul id="group_57267624">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267624" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57267246"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580710&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57267246">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57267274" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267274" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267274" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267274"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267274">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267274" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267498" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267498" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267498" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267498" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267498" name="comment_link_57267498" href="//mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580710&cid=57267498" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267498)" >safety, use a friggin' PLB</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267498" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267498); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>1</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span>Anonymous Coward</span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267498"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267498"><p>I spend a lot of time in the woods of British Columbia, Canada. There is no celphone coverage in probably 95% of our woods/wilderness. I don't ask for cel towers, I carry a Personal Locator Beacon (PLB) for safety. If it is that important to someone to be connected, let them use satellite. We don't need more cel coverage for narcisists.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
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+ error: function () {
+ $('#announcementText').show();
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+bizx.cmp.ifConsent('publisher', ['storage', 'measurement'], initPiwikAndNels);
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+ $(window).scroll(function () {
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+ $(function(){
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+ delete sessionStorage.scrollPos;
+ })
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+ // window.onbeforeunload = function () {
+ // console.log('bakc button clicked');
+ // delete sessionStorage.scrollPos;
+ // }
+ window.onpopstate=function() {
+ delete sessionStorage.scrollPos;
+ }
+ </script>
+
+
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+ <!-- 1x1 story page -->
+ <div id='div-gpt-ad-1x1'><script type='text/javascript'>
+googletag.cmd.push(function(){
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+
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+ <script type="text/javascript">
+ if (!window.is_euro_union) {
+ window._taboola = window._taboola || [];
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+
+ </body>
+ </html>
+
+
+ <!-- footer type=current end -->
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+<!-- html-header type=current begin -->
+
+ <!DOCTYPE html>
+
+ <html lang="en">
+ <head>
+ <!-- Render IE9 -->
+ <meta http-equiv="X-UA-Compatible" content="IE=edge,chrome=1">
+
+
+
+<script>window.is_euro_union = 1;</script>
+<script src="https://a.fsdn.com/con/js/sftheme/vendor/promise.polyfill.min.js"></script>
+<script src="https://a.fsdn.com/con/js/sftheme/cmp.js"></script>
+<script src="https://slashdot.org/country.js"></script>
+<script type='text/javascript'>
+if (window.is_euro_union) {
+ bizx.cmp.init({
+ // to test: 'Display UI': 'always',
+ 'Publisher Name': 'Slashdot',
+ 'Publisher Logo': 'https://a.fsdn.com/sd/sdlogo.svg',
+ 'Consent Scope': 'global group',
+ 'Consent Scope Group URL': 'https://slashdot.org/gdpr-cookies.pl',
+ });
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+</script>
+<link rel="stylesheet" href="//a.fsdn.com/con/css/sftheme/sandiego/cmp.css" type="text/css">
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+ background-color: #016765;
+}
+</style>
+<script>
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+ })(window,document,'script','https://www.stack-sonar.com/ping.js','stackSonar');
+ stackSonar('stack-connect', '66');
+}
+</script>
+
+ <script id="before-content" type="text/javascript">
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+ if (typeof window.sdmedia.site !== 'object') {
+ window.sdmedia.site = {};
+ }
+
+ var site = window.sdmedia.site;
+ site.rootdir = "//slashdot.org";
+}());
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+var pageload = {
+ pagemark: '396844337569319772',
+ before_content: (new Date).getTime()
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+ pageload.content_ready_time = pageload.content_ready - pageload.before_content;
+ pageload.script_ready_time = pageload.after_readycode - pageload.content_ready;
+ pageload.ready_time = pageload.after_readycode - pageload.before_content;
+ // Only report 1% of cases.
+ maybe || (Math.random()>0.01) || $.ajax({ data: {
+ op: 'page_profile',
+ pagemark: pageload.pagemark,
+ dom: pageload.content_ready_time,
+ js: pageload.script_ready_time
+ } });
+}
+</script>
+ <meta http-equiv="X-UA-Compatible" content="IE=edge,chrome=1">
+
+ <title>Computer Chips Are Still 'Made in USA' - Slashdot</title>
+ <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
+
+ <meta name="description" content="For all the wishful thinking about manufacturing more laptops and iPhones in the U.S., there is one sector of tech manufacturing where America remains a leader: computer chips. From a report: Some $44 billion worth of semiconductors are exported from the U.S. each year, making them America's fourth ...">
+
+ <meta name="twitter:card" content="summary">
+ <meta name="twitter:site" content="@slashdot">
+ <meta name="twitter:domain" content="news.slashdot.org">
+ <meta property="og:url" content="https://news.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1558206/computer-chips-are-still-made-in-usa?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=slashdot">
+
+ <meta property="og:title" content="Computer Chips Are Still 'Made in USA' - Slashdot">
+ <meta property="og:description" content="For all the wishful thinking about manufacturing more laptops and iPhones in the U.S., there is one sector of tech manufacturing where America remains a leader: computer chips. From a report: Some $44 billion worth of semiconductors are exported from the U.S. each year, making them America's fourth ...">
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+ <meta name="viewport" content="width=1000, user-scalable=yes, minimum-scale=0, maximum-scale=10.0" />
+ <meta name="apple-mobile-web-app-capable" content="yes">
+ <meta name="apple-mobile-web-app-status-bar-style" content="black">
+
+ <link rel="canonical" href="https://news.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1558206/computer-chips-are-still-made-in-usa">
+
+ <link rel="alternate" media="only screen and (max-width: 640px)" href="http://m.slashdot.org/story/345528" >
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+<script type='text/javascript'>
+ /*global performance */
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+ }, function () {
+ window.bizxPrebid.Ads.initPrebid(window.bizxPrebid.adUnits);
+ });
+</script>
+
+<!-- prep GPT ads -->
+<script type='text/javascript'>
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+ only four page types:
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+ - Poll
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+ - Other (but AdOps wants 'Homepage' again)
+ */
+ var path = loc.pathname;
+ var just_the_root = /^\/?$/.test(path);
+ var story_or_poll = /^\/(story(?=\/)|submission(?=\/)|poll(?=\/|Booth|s\b))/i.exec(path);
+
+ var page_type = just_the_root ? 'homepage'
+ : story_or_poll ? story_or_poll[1]
+ : 'other'
+
+ // exceptions
+ if (page_type.toLowerCase() === 'submission')
+ page_type = 'story'; // submissions are like stories, right?
+ else if (page_type.toLowerCase() === 'other')
+ page_type = 'homepage'; // this one might move out of here
+
+ return page_type;
+ }
+ function page_section (loc) {
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+ //var hostwise = '^([a-z]+)(?:-(?:'+greek+'))?\\.(?:slashdot\\.org|\\.xb\\.sf\\.net)$';
+ var pathwise = '^/(?:(recent|popular|blog)|stories/([^/]+))';
+ var rootwise = '^\/?$';
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+ var pathwisely = new RegExp(pathwise,'i').exec(loc.pathname);
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+ }
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+ function unique_tpc_array(array1,array2) {
+ var j = array1.concat(array2);
+ j.forEach(function (v,i,a) {
+ a[i] = v.replace(/[^_a-z]/ig, '');
+ });
+ return j.filter(function (v,i,a) {
+ return v != '' && a.indexOf(v) === i;
+ });
+ }
+
+ /* LEGEND:
+ - 'sz' = "size"
+ - 'npt' = "no page type" in ad unit name
+ */
+ var tags = {
+ '728x90_A': { 'sz': [[728, 90], [970, 90], [970, 250], [980, 66]] },
+ '728x90_B': { 'sz': [728, 90] },
+ '728x90_C': { 'sz': [728, 90], 'skip': { 'homepage': 1 } },
+ 'HubIcon_200x90_A': { 'sz': [[200, 90], [220, 90]]},
+ 'PowerSwitch_980x66_A': { 'sz': [980, 66], 'skip': { 'homepage': 1 } },
+ 'PollPeel': { 'sz': [200, 90], 'skip': { 'homepage': 1 } },
+ //'VideoWidget_300x250': { 'sz': [300, 250], 'npt': 1 },
+ '300x250_A': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600], [300, 1050]] },
+ '300x250_B': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]] },
+ '300x250_C': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]] },
+ '300x250_D': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]] },
+ 'Pulse_300x600_A': { 'sz': [300, 600] },
+ //'Polls_Detail_300x250_A': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]], 'npt': 1 },
+ //'Poll_300x250_A': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]], 'npt': 1 },
+ //'SD_Story_1x1': { 'sz': [1, 1] },
+ '1x1': { 'sz': [1, 1] }
+ };
+
+ //var network_path = '/41014381/Slashdot/';
+ var network_path = '/41014381/Slashdot/';
+ var tag_name_prefix = 'SD';
+ var tag_name_linkage = '_';
+ var tag_name_pagetype = page_type(location);
+ var tag_topic = page_section(location);
+ if(tag_name_pagetype == 'poll'){
+ tag_name_pagetype = 'Poll';
+ }
+ var before_tag_pagetyped = network_path
+ + tag_name_prefix
+ + tag_name_linkage
+ + tag_name_pagetype
+ + tag_name_linkage
+ ;
+ var before_tag_pagetypeless = network_path
+ + tag_name_prefix
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+ /* + tag_name_pagetype */
+ /* + tag_name_linkage */
+ ;
+
+
+ googletag.cmd.push(function() {
+
+ function remove_sticky_top() {
+ setTimeout(function(){
+ $('#div-gpt-ad-728x90_a').parent('div').addClass('adwrap-viewed-banner');
+ $('#div-gpt-ad-728x90_a').addClass('viewableImpression');
+ }, 1000);
+ }
+ function remove_sticky_railad() {
+ setTimeout(function(){
+ $('#slashboxes .adwrap-unviewed').addClass('adwrap-viewed-railad');
+ $('.railad').addClass('viewableImpression');
+ }, 1000);
+ }
+ function viewable_imp (slot) {
+ for(var i in slot) {
+ if(typeof slot[i] !== 'string') continue;
+ switch(slot[i]){
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_728x90_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_story_728x90_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_Poll_728x90_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_728x90_Ref_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_story_728x90_Ref_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_Poll_728x90_Ref_A":
+ remove_sticky_top();
+ break;
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_300x250_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_story_300x250_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_Poll_300x250_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_300x250_Ref_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_story_300x250_Ref_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_Poll_300x250_Ref_A":
+ remove_sticky_railad();
+ break;
+ }
+ //if(slot[i] === "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_728x90_A") remove_sticky_top();
+ //if(slot[i] === "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_300x250_A") remove_sticky_railad();
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+ ;
+ var div_id = 'div-gpt-ad-' + tag.toLowerCase();
+
+ var service;
+ // extend jQuery and get URL query params
+ jQuery.extend({
+ getQueryParameters : function(str) {
+ return (str || document.location.search).replace(/(^\?)/,'').split("&").map(function(n){
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+ }.bind({}))[0];
+ }
+ });
+
+ var queryParams = $.getQueryParameters();
+
+ if( queryParams.source === 'autorefresh' ) {
+ full_name = full_name.replace(/(\d+x\d+)/,'$1_Ref');
+ //console.log('TAG NAME: ', full_name);
+ }
+
+ service = googletag.defineSlot(
+ full_name
+ , tags[tag].sz
+ , div_id
+ ).addService(googletag.pubads());
+
+ service.setTargeting('sz', tags[tag].sz);
+
+
+ var frontend_tpc = tag_topic.split(",");
+ var backend_tpc = [ "business", "usa", "technology", "news" ];
+
+ var tpc_final = unique_tpc_array(frontend_tpc, backend_tpc);
+ service.setTargeting('tpc', tpc_final);
+ if (location.hostname.match(sandbox_regex)) {
+ service.setTargeting('test', 'adops');
+ }
+
+ }
+
+ for (tag in tags) {
+ define_me_a_slot(tag, false);
+ }
+ googletag.pubads().addEventListener('impressionViewable', function(event) {
+ viewable_imp(event.slot);
+ });
+
+ googletag.pubads().setTargeting('requestSource', 'GPT');
+ googletag.pubads().setRequestNonPersonalizedAds(window.Ads_disallowPersonalization);
+ googletag.pubads().enableAsyncRendering();
+
+
+ googletag.pubads().collapseEmptyDivs();
+ window.bizxPrebid.SAFEFRAMES = true;
+ bizxPrebid.Ads.pushToGoogle();
+ googletag.enableServices();
+ });
+})();
+</script>
+
+
+
+<!-- CrossPixel -->
+<script type="text/javascript"> try{(function(){ var cb = new Date().getTime(); var s = document.createElement("script"); s.defer = true; s.src = "//tag.crsspxl.com/s1.js?d=2397&cb="+cb; var s0 = document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0]; s0.parentNode.insertBefore(s, s0); })();}catch(e){} </script>
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+
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+ $more_link.each(function(){
+ var $lastitem = $('#firehoselist>article.fhitem:visible:last');
+ if ( Bounds.intersect(window, $lastitem) ) {
+
+
+ !--auto_more_count && (auto_more=undefined);
+ // don't allow a call till the next paginate gets built and |more_possible|
+ $(document).unbind('scroll', call_auto_more);
+ }
+ });
+ };
+
+ function call_auto_more(){ auto_more && auto_more(); }
+
+
+$('#more-experiment a').
+ live('more-possible', function( event ){
+ var $more_link=$(this);
+ if ( regexp.test($more_link.text()) ) {
+
+ $(document).bind('scroll', call_auto_more);
+ } else {
+ $(document).unbind('scroll', call_auto_more);
+
+ }
+ });
+})();
+</script>
+ <!--[if lt IE 9]><script src="//a.fsdn.com/sd/html5.js"></script><![endif]-->
+
+
+ <script type="text/javascript">
+ (function() {
+ if (typeof window.janrain !== 'object') window.janrain = {};
+ if (typeof window.janrain.settings !== 'object') window.janrain.settings = {};
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+ /* _______________ can edit below this line _______________ */
+
+ janrain.settings.tokenUrl = 'https://slashdot.org/token_callback.pl';
+ janrain.settings.type = 'embed';
+ janrain.settings.appId = 'ggidemlconlmjciiohla';
+ janrain.settings.appUrl = 'https://login.slashdot.org';
+ janrain.settings.providers = [
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+ 'facebook',
+ 'twitter',
+ 'linkedin'];
+ janrain.settings.providersPerPage = '5';
+ janrain.settings.format = 'one column';
+ janrain.settings.actionText = 'Sign in with';
+ janrain.settings.showAttribution = false;
+ janrain.settings.fontColor = '#666666';
+ janrain.settings.fontFamily = 'lucida grande, Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif';
+ janrain.settings.backgroundColor = '#ffffff';
+ janrain.settings.width = '300';
+ janrain.settings.borderColor = '#cccccc';
+ janrain.settings.borderRadius = '5'; janrain.settings.buttonBorderColor = '#CCCCCC';
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+ janrain.settings.buttonBackgroundStyle = 'gray';
+ janrain.settings.language = '';
+ janrain.settings.linkClass = 'janrainEngage';
+
+ /* _______________ can edit above this line _______________ */
+
+ function isReady() { janrain.ready = true; };
+ if (document.addEventListener) {
+ document.addEventListener("DOMContentLoaded", isReady, false);
+ } else {
+ window.attachEvent('onload', isReady);
+ }
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+ var e = document.createElement('script');
+ e.type = 'text/javascript';
+ e.id = 'janrainAuthWidget';
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+ e.src = 'https://rpxnow.com/js/lib/login.slashdot.org/engage.js';
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+ var s = document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0];
+ s.parentNode.insertBefore(e, s);
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+ </script>
+
+ <script src="//cdn-social.janrain.com/social/janrain-social.min.js"></script>
+ <script type="text/javascript">
+ (function($) {
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+ janrain.settings.appUrl = "https://login.slashdot.org";
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+ $twitter.append('<i class="icon-twitter"></i>');
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+ janrain.settings.social = {
+ providers: [
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+ "native-googleplus",
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+ });
+ })($j);
+ </script>
+ <!-- index2_variant ||-->
+
+ <!-- TABOOLA -->
+ <script type="text/javascript">
+ if (!window.is_euro_union) {
+ window._taboola = window._taboola || [];
+ _taboola.push({home:'auto'});
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+ e.src = u;
+ f.parentNode.insertBefore(e, f);
+ }(document.createElement('script'),
+ document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0],
+ '//cdn.taboola.com/libtrc/slashdot/loader.js');
+ }
+ </script>
+
+ <!-- html-header type=current end --><!-- header type=current begin -->
+
+
+
+ <link rel="top" title="News for nerds, stuff that matters" href="//slashdot.org/" >
+<link rel="search" title="Search Slashdot" href="//news.slashdot.org/search.pl">
+<link rel="alternate" title="Slashdot RSS" href="http://rss.slashdot.org/Slashdot/slashdotMain" type="application/rss+xml">
+ <link rel="shortcut icon" href="/favicon.ico" type="image/x-icon">
+
+
+ <div id="top_parent"></div>
+ <a name="topothepage"></a>
+
+ <div class="container">
+ <div class="nav-wrap">
+ <nav class="nav-primary" role="navigation" aria-label="Global Navigation">
+ <h1 class="logo">
+ <a href="//slashdot.org"><span>Slashdot</span></a>
+</h1>
+
+<ul class="nav-site">
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org"><i class="icon-book" title="Stories"></i><span>Stories</span></a></li>
+ <li>
+ <ul class="filter-firehose">
+ <li class="nav-label">Firehose <i class="icon-angle-right"></i></li>
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org/recent">All</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org/popular">Popular</a></li>
+ </ul>
+ </li>
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org/polls"><i class="icon-chart-bar" title="Polls"></i><span>Polls</span></a></li>
+
+ <!--
+ <li><a href="//ask.slashdot.org"><i class="icon-question-circle"></i><span>Ask</span></a></li>
+
+ <li><a href="//events.slashdot.org"><i class="icon-calendar"></i><span>Events</span></a></li>
+ -->
+ <li><a href="http://deals.slashdot.org/?utm_source=slashdot&utm_medium=navbar&utm_campaign=dealshp_1" target="_blank"><i class="sd-mini" title="Deals"></i> <span>Deals</span></a></li>
+</ul>
+<a href="//slashdot.org/submission" class="btn btn-success">Submit</a>
+ </nav>
+ <nav class="nav-user" role="navigation" aria-label="user access and account controls">
+ <form id="search" class="form-inline nav-search-form" method="get" action="//slashdot.org/index2.pl">
+<!-- //news.slashdot.org/index2.pl" -->
+ <div class="form-group">
+ <label class="sr-only" for="sitesearch">Search Slashdot</label>
+ <div class="input-group">
+ <input type="text" id="" class="" name="fhfilter" value="" placeholder="Search">
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <button type="submit" class="btn icon-search"></button>
+</form>
+<ul class="user-access">
+
+
+ <li >
+ <a href="//slashdot.org/my/login" onclick="show_login_box(); return false;"><i class="icon-login"></i><span> Login</span></a>
+
+ </li>
+
+
+
+ <li class="nav-label">or</li>
+
+
+
+ <li >
+ <a href="//slashdot.org/my/newuser" ><i class="icon-user-add"></i><span> Sign up</span></a>
+
+ </li>
+
+
+</ul>
+ </nav>
+ </div>
+ <div class="nav-secondary-wrap">
+ <nav class="nav-secondary" role="secondary-navigation">
+ <ul>
+ <li class="nav-label">Topics: </li>
+ <li><a href="//devices.slashdot.org">Devices</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//build.slashdot.org">Build</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//entertainment.slashdot.org">Entertainment</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//technology.slashdot.org">Technology</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org/?fhfilter=opensource">Open Source</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//science.slashdot.org">Science</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//yro.slashdot.org">YRO</a></li>
+ <!-- <li><a href="//slashdot.org/topics.pl">more...</a></li> -->
+ </ul>
+</nav>
+<nav class="nav-social" role="social navigation">
+ <ul>
+ <li class="nav-label">Follow us:</li>
+ <li><a href="http://rss.slashdot.org/Slashdot/slashdotMain" target="_blank"><i class="icon-rss-squared"></i><span class="sr-only">RSS</span></a></li>
+ <li><a href="http://www.facebook.com/slashdot" target="_blank"><i class="icon-facebook-squared"></i><span class="sr-only">Facebook</span></a></li>
+ <li><a href="https://plus.google.com/112601993642376762846/" target="_blank"><i class="icon-gplus-squared"></i><span class="sr-only">Google+</span></a></li>
+ <li><a href="http://twitter.com/slashdot" target="_blank"><i class="icon-twitter-squared"></i><span class="sr-only">Twitter</span></a></li>
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org/newsletter" target="_blank"><i class="icon-mail-squared"></i><span class="sr-only">Newsletter</span></a></li>
+ </ul>
+</nav>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+
+ <section>
+
+ <div class="message-bar" id="firehose-message-tray">
+ <span class="icon-quote-left"></span>
+ <p>
+
+
+ Slashdot is powered by <strong><a href="//news.slashdot.org/submission">your submissions</a></strong>, so send in your scoop
+
+ </p>
+ </div>
+
+
+ <div id='embbeded_login_modal' class="hide">
+<form action="https://slashdot.org/my/login" method="post" onsubmit="if (global_returnto) { this.returnto.value = global_returnto }" class="embedded"><fieldset style="-webkit-border-radius:10px 10px 0 0;border-radius:10px 10px 0 0;-moz-border-radius:10px 10px 0 0">
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+ <input type="hidden" name="returnto" value="">
+ <input type="hidden" name="op" value="userlogin">
+ <p>
+ <label class="fleft" for="unickname">Nickname:</label>
+ <input type="text" name="unickname" value="">
+ </p>
+ <p>
+ <label class="fleft" for="upasswd">Password:</label>
+ <input type="password" name="upasswd" placeholder="6-1024 characters long">
+ </p>
+ <label class="checkbox"><input type="checkbox" name="login_temp" value="yes"> Public Terminal</label>
+ <br>
+ <hr>
+ <input type="submit" name="userlogin" value="Log In" class="fno"> <a href="//slashdot.org/my/mailpassword" class="btn link" onclick="getModalPrefs('sendPasswdModal', 'Retrieve Password', 1); return false;">Forgot your password?</a>
+</fieldset></form>
+
+<div id="janrainEngageEmbed"></div>
+<div class="actions">
+ <a class="ico close" onclick="hide_login_slider();" href=""><span>Close</span></a>
+</div>
+</div>
+
+
+ <div class="banner-wrapper">
+ <div class="adwrap adwrap-unviewed banner-contain">
+
+ <div id='div-gpt-ad-728x90_a'><script type='text/javascript'>
+googletag.cmd.push(function(){
+googletag.display('div-gpt-ad-728x90_a');});</script></div>
+ <div id='div-gpt-ad-hubicon_200x90_a'><script type='text/javascript'>
+googletag.cmd.push(function(){
+googletag.display('div-gpt-ad-hubicon_200x90_a');});</script></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+
+ <a name="main-articles"></a>
+
+ <!-- header type=current end --><!-- body begin -->
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <style type="text/css">
+menu, menu * {
+ text-decoration:none;
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+ position:absolute;
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+ display:inline-block;
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+ margin: 2px 10px 0 0;
+ color:rgb(255,255,255);
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+color:#444444;
+}
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+font-size:80%;
+-moz-border-radius:.5em;
+-webkit-border-radius:.5em;
+cursor:pointer;
+}
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+menu.reasons-menu {
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+ margin:0;
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+div.fhitem h3 menu.reasons-menu {
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+
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+ <a class="tag">typo</a><a class="tag">dupe</a><a class="tag">error</a>
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+ <span class="type">story</span>
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+ </span>
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+ <h2 class="story">
+
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+
+
+ <span id="title-102636958" class="story-title"> <a href="//news.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1558206/computer-chips-are-still-made-in-usa">Computer Chips Are Still 'Made in USA'</a> <span class=" no extlnk"><a class="story-sourcelnk" href="https://www.axios.com/computer-chips-manufacturing-america--10dcfe13-64f3-4ea9-ad4a-cb189a00429a.html" title="External link - https://www.axios.com/computer-chips-manufacturing-america--10dcfe13-64f3-4ea9-ad4a-cb189a00429a.html" target="_blank"> (axios.com) </a></span></span>
+
+
+
+ <!--<span class="comments commentcnt-102636958" >70</span>-->
+
+
+
+ <!-- comment bubble -->
+
+ <span class="comment-bubble"><a href="//news.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1558206/computer-chips-are-still-made-in-usa#comments" title="">70</a></span>
+
+ </h2>
+ <div class="details" id="details-102636958">
+ <span class="story-details">
+ <span class="story-views">
+ <span class="sodify" onclick="firehose_set_options('color', 'red')" title="Filter Firehose to entries rated red or better"></span><span class="icon-beaker pop1 " alt="Popularity" title="Filter Firehose to entries rated red or better" onclick="firehose_set_options('color', 'red')"><span></span></span>
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+ <span class="story-byline">
+
+
+ Posted
+ by
+
+
+
+ msmash
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <time id="fhtime-102636958" datetime="on Thursday September 06, 2018 @05:20PM">on Thursday September 06, 2018 @05:20PM</time>
+
+
+ from the <span class="dept-text">how-about-that</span> dept.
+
+ </span>
+ </div>
+</header>
+
+<div class="body" id="fhbody-102636958">
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <div id="text-102636958" class="p">
+
+
+ For all the wishful thinking about manufacturing more laptops and iPhones in the U.S., there is <a href="https://www.axios.com/computer-chips-manufacturing-america--10dcfe13-64f3-4ea9-ad4a-cb189a00429a.html">one sector of tech manufacturing where America remains a leader: computer chips</a>. From a report:<i> Some $44 billion worth of semiconductors are exported from the U.S. each year, making them America's fourth leading manufacturing export after cars, airplanes and refined oil. There are roughly 80 wafer fabrication plants (aka fabs) in the U.S., spread across 19 states. [...] An even greater share of the world's computer chips are designed domestically and made overseas by companies including Qualcomm, Apple, Broadcom and Nvidia. A bunch of the high-tech gear needed to produce chips is also designed and/or made in the U.S.</i><br>
+
+ </div>
+
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+ data-janrain-title="Computer Chips Are Still 'Made in USA'"
+ data-janrain-message="Computer Chips Are Still 'Made in USA' @slashdot"
+ ></div>
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+ <h3><a title="Previous story" href="//tech.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/205221/ive-seen-the-future-of-consumer-ai-and-it-doesnt-have-one?sdsrc=prev">←</a></h3>
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+ <h3><a title="Next story" href="//developers.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2024232/software-developers-are-now-more-valuable-to-companies-than-money-says-survey?sdsrc=next">→</a></h3>
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+ <div class="grid_6">
+ <span class="c">
+ <a href="//tech.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/205221/ive-seen-the-future-of-consumer-ai-and-it-doesnt-have-one?sdsrc=prev">'I've Seen the Future of Consumer AI, and it Doesn't Have One' </a>
+ </span>
+ </div>
+ <div class="grid_12">
+ <span class="c">
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <h2><a href="//news.slashdot.org/story/18/08/14/1628218/fewer-than-half-of-young-americans-are-positive-about-capitalism?sdsrc=popbyskid">Fewer Than Half of Young Americans Are Positive About Capitalism</a><br></h2>
+ <h2><a href="//news.slashdot.org/story/18/08/26/1919246/mass-shooting-reported-at-madden-video-game-tournament-in-florida?sdsrc=popbyskid">Mass Shooting Reported at Madden Video Game Tournament in Florida</a><br></h2>
+ <h2><a href="//news.slashdot.org/story/17/10/02/1159214/las-vegas-shooting-leaves-at-least-50-dead-more-than-200-wounded?sdsrc=popbyskid">Las Vegas Shooting Leaves at Least 50 Dead, More Than 200 Wounded</a><br></h2>
+ <h2><a href="//news.slashdot.org/story/18/07/31/2223201/san-francisco-officials-are-planning-to-ban-corporate-cafeterias-force-tech-workers-to-eat-out-at-local-restaurants?sdsrc=popbyskid">San Francisco Officials Are Planning To Ban Corporate Cafeterias, Force Tech Workers To Eat Out At Local Restaurants</a><br></h2>
+ <h2><a href="//news.slashdot.org/story/18/04/03/2022254/update-possible-active-shooter-reported-at-youtube-hq?sdsrc=popbyskid">Update: Possible Active Shooter Reported at YouTube HQ</a><br></h2>
+
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+
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+
+ <a href="//developers.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2024232/software-developers-are-now-more-valuable-to-companies-than-money-says-survey?sdsrc=next">Software Developers Are Now More Valuable To Companies Than Money, Says Survey</a>
+
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+ <span class="escape-link"><a href="//news.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1558206/computer-chips-are-still-made-in-usa" title="Back to Article - Computer Chips Are Still 'Made in USA'">Computer Chips Are Still 'Made in USA'</a></span>
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+<ul id="commtree_57266070"><li id="tree_57266116" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266116" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266116" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266116" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266116" name="comment_link_57266116" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579860&cid=57266116" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266116)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266116" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266116); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~bobbied">bobbied</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~bobbied">( 2522392 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266116"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266116"><p>Why? </p><p>Politics of course.. </p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266116">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266116"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266116">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266116" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266116"><li id="tree_57266170" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266170" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266170" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266170" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266170" name="comment_link_57266170" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579860&cid=57266170" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266170)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266170" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266170); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~AlwinBarni">Alwin Barni</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~AlwinBarni">( 5107629 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266170"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266170"><p><div class="quote"><p>Why? </p><p>Politics of course.. </p></div><p>Could you please expand?</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266170">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266170"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266170">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266170" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266170"><li id="tree_57266194" class="comment full contain"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266194" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266194" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266194" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266194" name="comment_link_57266194" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579860&cid=57266194" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266194)" >Re:Why is it "wishful thinking"?</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266194" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266194); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>5</a>, Funny)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~fahrbot-bot">fahrbot-bot</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~fahrbot-bot">( 874524 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266194">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @05:49PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579860&cid=57266194">#57266194</a>)
+ <small> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266194"><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p>Why? </p><p>Politics of course.. </p></div><p>Could you please expand?</p></div><p> <tt>
+P o l i t i c s o f c o u r s e.
+</tt></p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266194">
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+ <div id="comment_top_57266242" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266242" name="comment_link_57266242" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579860&cid=57266242" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266242)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266242" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266242); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>, Funny)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span>Anonymous Coward</span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266242"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266242"><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p>Why? </p><p>Politics of course.. </p></div><p>Could you please expand?</p></div><p> <tt><br>P o l i t i c s o f c o u r s e.<br></tt> </p></div><p>I'm not sure if I should laugh, or hunt you down and smack you upside your head with a 2x4.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266242">
+
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+
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Highdude702">Highdude702</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Highdude702">( 4456913 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266272"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266272"><p>I mean, I thought it was hilarious, and it wasn't the name calling garbage you see here too often.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266272">
+
+</div>
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+
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~AlwinBarni">Alwin Barni</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~AlwinBarni">( 5107629 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266414"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266414"><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)
+
+</p><p> However:<br>
+
+expand
+ikspand/<br>
+verb<br>
+verb: expand; 3rd person present: expands; past tense: expanded; past participle: expanded; gerund or present participle: expanding<br>
+* become or make larger or more extensive<br>
+* <b>give a fuller version or account of.</b></p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266414">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
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+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266540" name="comment_link_57266540" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579860&cid=57266540" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266540)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266540" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266540); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~fahrbot-bot">fahrbot-bot</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~fahrbot-bot">( 874524 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266540"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266540"><p><div class="quote"><p><nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)
+
+</p><p> However: expand - verb<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...<br>
+ (1) become or make larger or more extensive<br>
+ (2) <b>give a fuller version or account of.</b>
+</p></div><p>
+Yup, I know; I was married to an English teacher for 20 years, but using the first definition was funnier.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)
+</p><p>
+<a href="http://remembersue.tumblr.com/" title="tumblr.com">Remember Sue...</a> [tumblr.com]</p></div>
+ </div>
+
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+<div id="comment_status_57266322" class="commentstatus"></div>
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+ <div id="comment_top_57266322" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266322" name="comment_link_57266322" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579860&cid=57266322" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266322)" >Re: Why is it "wishful thinking"?</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266322" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266322); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>1</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span>Anonymous Coward</span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266322"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266322"><p>The only reason is automation. Jobs were never going to come back from chip manufacturing.</p><p>They have a factory crew for setting up the parts and feeding the machines. Pretty cheap, doesn't actually make much money for anyone but the corporation running it. It's all "unskilled" and low pay...setting up all those machines, getting material dimensions in spec and running the machine is just considered general labor.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266322">
+
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+</div>
+
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+
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+</ul>
+
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+<div id="comment_status_57266406" class="commentstatus"></div>
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+ <div id="comment_top_57266406" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266406" name="comment_link_57266406" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579860&cid=57266406" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266406)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266406" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266406); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>3</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~YuppieScum">YuppieScum</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~YuppieScum">( 1096 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266406"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266406"><p><div class="quote"><p>If the US leads in chip manufacture, why can't it be competitive in putting the pieces together?</p></div><p>
+Because most of the CPU silicon used in the commonest devices - phones and laptops - is fabbed in Asia.<br> <br>
+Because most of the parts - like screens, RAM and flash storage - are also made in Asia, so it's cheaper to bolt it all together in a location closest to the source of the most parts.<br> <br>
+Because final assembly of something like an iPhone is a manual process that requires the dexterity of nimble fingers. It's not quite the same as bolting doors onto a Chevvy.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266406">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266406"></div>
+
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+ <li id="hiddens_57266406" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
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+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266432" name="comment_link_57266432" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579860&cid=57266432" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266432)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266432" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266432); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~GameboyRMH">GameboyRMH</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~GameboyRMH">( 1153867 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266432"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266432"><p>Because it hardly has any of the pieces right now - it would be a massive effort to put all the supply chains in place for the various electronics components needed for a whole computer when the US currently makes little more than chips. Currently those supply chains are in Asia (which also has the advantages of cheap labor and lax environmental laws). I'd compare it to going from just making engine blocks to making a whole car, but that underplays the difficulty too much.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266432">
+
+</div>
+</div>
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+
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+</ul>
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+ <div id="comment_top_57266438" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266438" name="comment_link_57266438" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579860&cid=57266438" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266438)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266438" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266438); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~AHuxley">AHuxley</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~AHuxley">( 892839 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266438"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266438">Re "why can't it be competitive in putting the pieces together?"<br>
+Think back to the 1970 and 1980's when the CPU thing needed new production lines and was no longer low yield skilled lab work.<br>
+Non first world nations part pay their workers in food, dormitories. Their introduction to work is free as its part of the nations free "education".<br>
+Tax reductions and industrial export support then further supports the electronics brand in the poor nation.<br>
+No unions. Lots of pollution. <br> <br>
+The big brands moved to ver</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266438">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266438"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266438">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266438" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57266070"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579860&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266070">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266076" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266076" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266076" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266076"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266076">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266076" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266082" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266082" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266082" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266082" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266082" name="comment_link_57266082" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579860&cid=57266082" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266082)" >But for how long?</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266082" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266082); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~DMJC">DMJC</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~DMJC">( 682799 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266082"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266082">Sure they still do, but China is beginning to manufacture X86 CPUs directly. It's only a matter of time until they catch up and crush Intel and AMD through undercutting, and throwing money at the problem.
+<a href="https://www.tomshardware.com/news/china-zen-x86-processor-dryhana,37417.html" title="tomshardware.com">https://www.tomshardware.com/n...</a> [tomshardware.com]</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266082">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266082"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266082">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266082" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266082"><li id="tree_57266166" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266166" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266166" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266166"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266166">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266166" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266168" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266168" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266168" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266168" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266168" name="comment_link_57266168" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579860&cid=57266168" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266168)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266168" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266168); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~DalM">Dallas May</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~DalM">( 4891515 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266168"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266168"><p>In the long run, yes. Probably not really soon. There are plenty of significant advances happening that space right now. They might market to the far low end PCs, but they aren't the market AMD and Intel really want anyway.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266168">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266168"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266168">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266168" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266240" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266240" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266240" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266240" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266240" name="comment_link_57266240" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579860&cid=57266240" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266240)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266240" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266240); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~jon3k">jon3k</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~jon3k">( 691256 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266240"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266240">By then (10-20 years, if they're lucky) the desktop will be commoditized and mobile (ie laptops) mostly replaced with ARM. All the growth is in the server market and China is a long, long way from producing an X86 CPU that can compete with Intel Xeons. Who knows what the landscape will look like by then.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266240">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266240"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266240">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266240" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266240"><li id="tree_57267168" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267168" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267168" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267168" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267168" name="comment_link_57267168" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579860&cid=57267168" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267168)" >Re: But for how long?</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267168" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267168); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~adolf">adolf</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~adolf">( 21054 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267168"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267168"><p>This will also be the year of Linux on the desktop!</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267168">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267168"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267168">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267168" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57267168"><li id="tree_57267622" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267622" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267622" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267622" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267622" name="comment_link_57267622" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579860&cid=57267622" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267622)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267622" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267622); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~tsa">tsa</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~tsa">( 15680 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267622"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267622"><p>Yeah, paradise is near!</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267622">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267622"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267622">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267622" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57267622"><li id="tree_57267712" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267712" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267712" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267712" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267712" name="comment_link_57267712" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579860&cid=57267712" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267712)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267712" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267712); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~adolf">adolf</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~adolf">( 21054 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267712"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267712"><p>We're on the home stretch, boys!</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267712">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267712"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267712">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267712" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li></ul></li></ul></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266400" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266400" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266400" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266400" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266400" name="comment_link_57266400" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579860&cid=57266400" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266400)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266400" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266400); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~AHuxley">AHuxley</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~AHuxley">( 892839 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266400"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266400">As long as the NRO needs hand crafted space CPU products.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266400">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266400"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266400">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266400" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267142" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267142" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267142" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267142" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267142" name="comment_link_57267142" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579860&cid=57267142" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267142)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267142" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267142); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~CaffeinatedBacon">CaffeinatedBacon</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~CaffeinatedBacon">( 5363221 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267142"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267142"><p>But who will people trust to make their CPU's. Intel with their "management engine" and AMD etc all with the same is already freaking enough people out.</p><p>Who is going to want a Chinese CPU with who knows what running on it that you will never be able to see, has access to everything, and can do anything it wants to "your computer" and "your data".<br>
+Most countries would probably just ban them like they are <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/23/technology/huawei-banned-australia-5g.html" title="nytimes.com">doing for 5G telecom equipment already.<span class="substr"> </span></a> [nytimes.com] </p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267142">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267142"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267142">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267142" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57266082"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579860&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266082">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266084" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266084" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266084" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266084"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266084">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266084" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266092" class="comment full contain"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266092" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266092" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266092" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266092" name="comment_link_57266092" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579860&cid=57266092" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266092)" >Yeah, but . . .</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266092" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266092); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>5</a>, Interesting)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~dtmos">dtmos</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~dtmos">( 447842 )</a></span></a> <a href="/faq/subscriptions.shtml#subscription_other_advantages">*</a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266092">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @05:28PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579860&cid=57266092">#57266092</a>)
+ <small> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266092"><p>. . . computer chips with <strong>state-of-the-art lithography</strong> soon all will be manufactured overseas. Specifically, they will be made by exactly two companies, <a href="https://www.samsungfoundry.com/foundry/homepage.do" title="samsungfoundry.com">Samsung</a> [samsungfoundry.com] and <a href="http://www.tsmc.com/english/default.htm" title="tsmc.com">TSMC</a> [tsmc.com], with GlobalFoundries' recent announcement that it is <a href="https://www.anandtech.com/show/13277/globalfoundries-stops-all-7nm-development" title="anandtech.com">stopping development of its 7nm process</a> [anandtech.com]. GF operated the old IBM facility in Fishkill, NY, and AFAIK was the last company offering state-of-the-art foundry services with a fab in the US.</p><p>Intel is still in business, of course, and even has a <a href="https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/foundry/overview.html" title="intel.com">foundry business</a> [intel.com], but it cannot seem to successfully operate it -- substantially all of its wafer starts are chips of its own design. With the capital cost of each new-generation fab reaching $20 billion, it's only a matter of time until Intel -- which has only its internal product base of chip designs to fill its fabs, while Samsung and TSMC make chips for the entire industry -- can no longer afford the move to the next generation.</p><p>If the rest of the semiconductor industry (or the US DoD) wants high-performance computer chips, there's now nowhere to go except Samsung and TSMC. It will be interesting to see what politicians do when they realize that the best digital chips can no longer be manufactured in the US. The choice seems to be either (1) have our economy -- everything from cell phones to missiles -- dependent on chips manufactured overseas, or (2) subsidize Intel's foundry business and the semiconductor equipment manufacturers to the tune of tens of $billions, just to keep a US source of high-performance semiconductors.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266092">
+<span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57266092" class="btn link" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579860&op=Reply&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266092" onclick="D2.replyTo(57266092); return false;">Reply to This</a> <a href="#" class="comment_share_toggle btn link">Share</a>
+ <div class="comment_share sharethis-0 hide"><span class="au"></span>
+ <a class="janrain t" href="#" data-provider="twitter" data-message="Yeah, but . . . by dtmos @slashdot" data-url="https://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579860&cid=57266092" data-title="Yeah, but . . .">twitter</a>
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+ <span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57266092" title="Flag this comment as Inappropriate" class="ui-icon flag fright" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579860&op=flag&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266092" onclick="return false;">Flag as Inappropriate</a>
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266092"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266092">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266092" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266092"><li id="tree_57266146" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266146" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266146" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266146"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266146">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266146" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266146"><li id="tree_57266174" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266174" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266174" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266174" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266174" name="comment_link_57266174" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579860&cid=57266174" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266174)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266174" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266174); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>3</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~DalM">Dallas May</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~DalM">( 4891515 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266174"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266174"><p>The same reason they haven't produced a car yet. They could, but they don't want to. They have good deals with their current suppliers, so why make that investment?</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266174">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266174"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266174">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266174" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266174"><li id="tree_57266622" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266622" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266622" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266622" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266622" name="comment_link_57266622" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579860&cid=57266622" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266622)" >The normal Transition of economies</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266622" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266622); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~aberglas">aberglas</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~aberglas">( 991072 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266622"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266622"><p>1. Primary production<br>2. Manufacturing<br>3. Services</p><p>Services will keep things going fine. Lawyers, tax accountants, retail and beauty consultants. That is where the growth will come from.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266622">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266622"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266622">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266622" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li></ul></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266196" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266196" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266196" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266196"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266196">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266196" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266336" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266336" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266336" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266336"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266336">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266336" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266336"><li id="tree_57266838" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266838" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266838" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266838" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266838" name="comment_link_57266838" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579860&cid=57266838" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266838)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266838" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266838); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~nateman1352">nateman1352</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~nateman1352">( 971364 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266838"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266838">TI doesn't have state-of-the-art lithography for digital. They gave up on the Moore's Law race 10 years ago after they reached 45nm. TI realized during the development of WinRT that building CPUs requires very expensive fabs and if you are not an x86 supplier then your only option is to make ARM chips, which is a race to the bottom with very thin margins. TI realized they can make more money building mixed signal designs on older process.</div>
+ </div>
+
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+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266560" name="comment_link_57266560" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579860&cid=57266560" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266560)" >Re:Yeah, but . . .</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266560" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266560); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>4</a>, Insightful)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Graymalkin">Graymalkin</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Graymalkin">( 13732 )</a></span></a> <a href="/faq/subscriptions.shtml#subscription_other_advantages">*</a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266560">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @07:18PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579860&cid=57266560">#57266560</a>)
+ <small> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266560"><p>State of the art lithography is not a synonym for high-performance computer chips. In fact for a lot of uses, DoD included, state of the art lithography is nowhere in the requirements. Hardened chips on robust/insulated substrates is more important in many uses than smaller die traces.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
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+<div id="comment_status_57266768" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266768" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266768" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266768" name="comment_link_57266768" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579860&cid=57266768" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266768)" >Re:</a>
+
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+ <span id="comment_score_57266768" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266768); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~KalvinB">KalvinB</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~KalvinB">( 205500 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266768"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266768"><p>They'll be subsidized under issues of national security if they're really needed by the government. The government generally doesn't run bleeding edge technology so the chips that can be produced in the US will be plenty sufficient for government needs. If the government ever needs a $20 billion plant, they'll cut a check under the national defense budget.</p><p>We've been comfortable with foreign made chips for decades in the consumer market. Unless there is a severe national security issue that won't change.<span class="substr"> </span></p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266768">
+
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+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266898" name="comment_link_57266898" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579860&cid=57266898" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266898)" >Re:</a>
+
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+ <span id="comment_score_57266898" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266898); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~nateman1352">nateman1352</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~nateman1352">( 971364 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266898"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266898"><p>Intel has the same fundamental problem with foundry that AMD had 10 years ago. Every 3rd party company does not trust Intel to prioritize their products over Intel's own products. Intel will always build their own products on the latest process node first. If you fab with Intel then your wafers will always get 2nd priority over Intel's own wafers. The only way that is not the case is if you are such a huge customer that your contract requires Intel to construct an entire new factory just for you. Then you h<span class="substr"> </span></p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266898">
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+<div id="comment_status_57266122" class="commentstatus"></div>
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+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266122"></div>
+
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+ <li id="hiddens_57266122" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
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+<div id="comment_status_57266176" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266176" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266176"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266176">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266176" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266206" class="comment full contain"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266206" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266206" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266206" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266206" name="comment_link_57266206" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579860&cid=57266206" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266206)" >Poor writing in TFA</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266206" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266206); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>5</a>, Informative)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~whoever57">whoever57</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~whoever57">( 658626 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266206">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @05:52PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579860&cid=57266206">#57266206</a>)
+ <small><a href="//slashdot.org/~whoever57/journal/" title="Thursday September 30, 2004 @02:33AM" class="user_journal_display">Journal</a> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266206"><p><i>"An even greater share of the world's computer chips are designed domestically and made overseas by companies including Qualcomm, Apple, Broadcom and Nvidia."</i></p><p>This reads as though Qualcomm, Apple, Broadcom and Nvidia are making chips. What would be clear and accurate is:</p><p>"An even greater share of the world's computer chips are designed domestically by companies including Qualcomm, Apple, Broadcom and Nvidia and made overseas."</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266206">
+<span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57266206" class="btn link" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579860&op=Reply&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266206" onclick="D2.replyTo(57266206); return false;">Reply to This</a> <a href="#" class="comment_share_toggle btn link">Share</a>
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+<div id="comment_57266324" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266324"></div>
+
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+ <li id="hiddens_57266324" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266338" class="comment full contain"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266338" class="commentstatus"></div>
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+ <div id="comment_top_57266338" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266338" name="comment_link_57266338" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579860&cid=57266338" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266338)" >Still somewhat misleading...</a>
+
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+ <span id="comment_score_57266338" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266338); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>4</a>, Informative)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~YuppieScum">YuppieScum</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~YuppieScum">( 1096 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266338">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @06:20PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579860&cid=57266338">#57266338</a>)
+ <small><a href="//slashdot.org/~YuppieScum/journal/" title="Tuesday August 05, 2003 @03:40PM" class="user_journal_display">Journal</a> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266338">Don't forget, a hefty chunk of Qualcomm's - and pretty much all of Apple's - designs are not original, but instead are based on IP from ARM, a British company (although recently bought out by SoftBank).<br> <br>In fact, Broadcom and Nvidia are also licencees of ARM IP as well, but less of their overall product range derives from it.</div>
+ </div>
+
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+ <div class="comment_share sharethis-0 hide"><span class="au"></span>
+ <a class="janrain t" href="#" data-provider="twitter" data-message="Still somewhat misleading... by YuppieScum @slashdot" data-url="https://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579860&cid=57266338" data-title="Still somewhat misleading...">twitter</a>
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+<div id="comment_status_57266320" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266320" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266320" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266320" name="comment_link_57266320" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579860&cid=57266320" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266320)" >Are you sure?</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266320" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266320); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>3</a>, Interesting)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Gabest">Gabest</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Gabest">( 852807 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266320">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @06:17PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579860&cid=57266320">#57266320</a>)
+ <small> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266320">TSMC and Samsung are the leaders in chip making. And second class Intel and AMD both have shady Middle-East ties from Israel and Dubai.</div>
+ </div>
+
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+</ul>
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+<div id="comment_57266786" class="cw">
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+
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+
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+ <li id="hiddens_57266786" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266884" class="comment full contain"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266884" class="commentstatus"></div>
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+ <div id="comment_top_57266884" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266884" name="comment_link_57266884" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579860&cid=57266884" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266884)" >13% market share is not good</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266884" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266884); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>4</a>, Interesting)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Goldsmith">Goldsmith</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Goldsmith">( 561202 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266884">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @08:34PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579860&cid=57266884">#57266884</a>)
+ <small> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266884"><p>This is a crazy article. At the end, it meekly points out that the US has a 13% market share in chip production. Given that the US started this industry, leads in design in this space, leads in capital available for high tech industry, and that the US accounts for 15% to 18% of global GDP, a 13% market share in chip production is very poor performance. This is below what you might expect for a simple commodity that depends only on domestic market size and way below what you'd expect for this industry.</p></div>
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+<script type='text/javascript'>
+(function() {
+ function page_type (loc) {
+ /*
+ only four page types:
+ - Story
+ - Poll
+ - Homepage (/ only)
+ - Other (but AdOps wants 'Homepage' again)
+ */
+ var path = loc.pathname;
+ var just_the_root = /^\/?$/.test(path);
+ var story_or_poll = /^\/(story(?=\/)|submission(?=\/)|poll(?=\/|Booth|s\b))/i.exec(path);
+
+ var page_type = just_the_root ? 'homepage'
+ : story_or_poll ? story_or_poll[1]
+ : 'other'
+
+ // exceptions
+ if (page_type.toLowerCase() === 'submission')
+ page_type = 'story'; // submissions are like stories, right?
+ else if (page_type.toLowerCase() === 'other')
+ page_type = 'homepage'; // this one might move out of here
+
+ return page_type;
+ }
+ function page_section (loc) {
+ //var greek = ['alpha', 'beta', 'gamma', 'delta'].join('|');
+ //var hostwise = '^([a-z]+)(?:-(?:'+greek+'))?\\.(?:slashdot\\.org|\\.xb\\.sf\\.net)$';
+ var pathwise = '^/(?:(recent|popular|blog)|stories/([^/]+))';
+ var rootwise = '^\/?$';
+
+ //var hostwisely = new RegExp(hostwise,'i').exec(loc.hostname);
+ var pathwisely = new RegExp(pathwise,'i').exec(loc.pathname);
+ var rootwisely = new RegExp(rootwise,'i').exec(loc.pathname);
+
+ var section = (rootwisely && 'homepage')
+ || (pathwisely && (pathwisely[1] || pathwisely[2]))
+ || ''
+ ;
+
+ return section.replace(/[^_a-z]/ig, '');
+ }
+ function single_size (size) {
+ return '' + size[0] + 'x' + size[1];
+ }
+ function sz_sz (sz) {
+ var str = '';
+ var sizes = [];
+ if (sz[0] instanceof Array) {
+ for (size in sz) {
+ sizes.push(single_size(sz[size]));
+ }
+ return sizes.join(',');
+ } else {
+ return single_size(sz);
+ }
+ }
+
+ function unique_tpc_array(array1,array2) {
+ var j = array1.concat(array2);
+ j.forEach(function (v,i,a) {
+ a[i] = v.replace(/[^_a-z]/ig, '');
+ });
+ return j.filter(function (v,i,a) {
+ return v != '' && a.indexOf(v) === i;
+ });
+ }
+
+ /* LEGEND:
+ - 'sz' = "size"
+ - 'npt' = "no page type" in ad unit name
+ */
+ var tags = {
+ '728x90_A': { 'sz': [[728, 90], [970, 90], [970, 250], [980, 66]] },
+ '728x90_B': { 'sz': [728, 90] },
+ '728x90_C': { 'sz': [728, 90], 'skip': { 'homepage': 1 } },
+ 'HubIcon_200x90_A': { 'sz': [[200, 90], [220, 90]]},
+ 'PowerSwitch_980x66_A': { 'sz': [980, 66], 'skip': { 'homepage': 1 } },
+ 'PollPeel': { 'sz': [200, 90], 'skip': { 'homepage': 1 } },
+ //'VideoWidget_300x250': { 'sz': [300, 250], 'npt': 1 },
+ '300x250_A': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600], [300, 1050]] },
+ '300x250_B': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]] },
+ '300x250_C': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]] },
+ '300x250_D': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]] },
+ 'Pulse_300x600_A': { 'sz': [300, 600] },
+ //'Polls_Detail_300x250_A': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]], 'npt': 1 },
+ //'Poll_300x250_A': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]], 'npt': 1 },
+ //'SD_Story_1x1': { 'sz': [1, 1] },
+ '1x1': { 'sz': [1, 1] }
+ };
+
+ //var network_path = '/41014381/Slashdot/';
+ var network_path = '/41014381/Slashdot/';
+ var tag_name_prefix = 'SD';
+ var tag_name_linkage = '_';
+ var tag_name_pagetype = page_type(location);
+ var tag_topic = page_section(location);
+ if(tag_name_pagetype == 'poll'){
+ tag_name_pagetype = 'Poll';
+ }
+ var before_tag_pagetyped = network_path
+ + tag_name_prefix
+ + tag_name_linkage
+ + tag_name_pagetype
+ + tag_name_linkage
+ ;
+ var before_tag_pagetypeless = network_path
+ + tag_name_prefix
+ + tag_name_linkage
+ /* + tag_name_pagetype */
+ /* + tag_name_linkage */
+ ;
+
+
+ googletag.cmd.push(function() {
+
+ function remove_sticky_top() {
+ setTimeout(function(){
+ $('#div-gpt-ad-728x90_a').parent('div').addClass('adwrap-viewed-banner');
+ $('#div-gpt-ad-728x90_a').addClass('viewableImpression');
+ }, 1000);
+ }
+ function remove_sticky_railad() {
+ setTimeout(function(){
+ $('#slashboxes .adwrap-unviewed').addClass('adwrap-viewed-railad');
+ $('.railad').addClass('viewableImpression');
+ }, 1000);
+ }
+ function viewable_imp (slot) {
+ for(var i in slot) {
+ if(typeof slot[i] !== 'string') continue;
+ switch(slot[i]){
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_728x90_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_story_728x90_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_Poll_728x90_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_728x90_Ref_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_story_728x90_Ref_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_Poll_728x90_Ref_A":
+ remove_sticky_top();
+ break;
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_300x250_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_story_300x250_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_Poll_300x250_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_300x250_Ref_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_story_300x250_Ref_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_Poll_300x250_Ref_A":
+ remove_sticky_railad();
+ break;
+ }
+ //if(slot[i] === "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_728x90_A") remove_sticky_top();
+ //if(slot[i] === "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_300x250_A") remove_sticky_railad();
+ }
+ }
+ function define_me_a_slot (tag) {
+ if (tags[tag].skip && tags[tag].skip[tag_name_pagetype])
+ return;
+ var sandbox_regex = /\.xb\.sf\.net$/i;
+ var full_name = tags[tag].npt // "no page type"
+ ? before_tag_pagetypeless + tag
+ : before_tag_pagetyped + tag
+ ;
+ var div_id = 'div-gpt-ad-' + tag.toLowerCase();
+
+ var service;
+ // extend jQuery and get URL query params
+ jQuery.extend({
+ getQueryParameters : function(str) {
+ return (str || document.location.search).replace(/(^\?)/,'').split("&").map(function(n){
+ return n = n.split("="),this[n[0]] = n[1],this
+ }.bind({}))[0];
+ }
+ });
+
+ var queryParams = $.getQueryParameters();
+
+ if( queryParams.source === 'autorefresh' ) {
+ full_name = full_name.replace(/(\d+x\d+)/,'$1_Ref');
+ //console.log('TAG NAME: ', full_name);
+ }
+
+ service = googletag.defineSlot(
+ full_name
+ , tags[tag].sz
+ , div_id
+ ).addService(googletag.pubads());
+
+ service.setTargeting('sz', tags[tag].sz);
+
+
+ var frontend_tpc = tag_topic.split(",");
+ var backend_tpc = [ "facebook", "business", "usa", "technology", "social", "internet", "news" ];
+
+ var tpc_final = unique_tpc_array(frontend_tpc, backend_tpc);
+ service.setTargeting('tpc', tpc_final);
+ if (location.hostname.match(sandbox_regex)) {
+ service.setTargeting('test', 'adops');
+ }
+
+ }
+
+ for (tag in tags) {
+ define_me_a_slot(tag, false);
+ }
+ googletag.pubads().addEventListener('impressionViewable', function(event) {
+ viewable_imp(event.slot);
+ });
+
+ googletag.pubads().setTargeting('requestSource', 'GPT');
+ googletag.pubads().setRequestNonPersonalizedAds(window.Ads_disallowPersonalization);
+ googletag.pubads().enableAsyncRendering();
+
+
+ googletag.pubads().collapseEmptyDivs();
+ window.bizxPrebid.SAFEFRAMES = true;
+ bizxPrebid.Ads.pushToGoogle();
+ googletag.enableServices();
+ });
+})();
+</script>
+
+
+
+<!-- CrossPixel -->
+<script type="text/javascript"> try{(function(){ var cb = new Date().getTime(); var s = document.createElement("script"); s.defer = true; s.src = "//tag.crsspxl.com/s1.js?d=2397&cb="+cb; var s0 = document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0]; s0.parentNode.insertBefore(s, s0); })();}catch(e){} </script>
+
+<!-- AdBlock Check -->
+<script>
+var isAdBlockActive = true;
+</script>
+<script async src="//a.fsdn.com/sd/js/scripts/ad.js?8f5016a67a2f2048"></script>
+
+</head>
+<body class="anon firehose ">
+
+
+ <script src="//a.fsdn.com/sd/all-minified.js?8f5016a67a2f2048" type="text/javascript"></script>
+
+
+ <script type="text/javascript">
+(function(){
+var regexp=/\s*(?:\d+|many)\s+more\s*/i;
+
+
+ var auto_more_count = 1;
+
+ function auto_more(){
+ var $more_link = $('#more-experiment a');
+ $more_link.each(function(){
+ var $lastitem = $('#firehoselist>article.fhitem:visible:last');
+ if ( Bounds.intersect(window, $lastitem) ) {
+
+
+ !--auto_more_count && (auto_more=undefined);
+ // don't allow a call till the next paginate gets built and |more_possible|
+ $(document).unbind('scroll', call_auto_more);
+ }
+ });
+ };
+
+ function call_auto_more(){ auto_more && auto_more(); }
+
+
+$('#more-experiment a').
+ live('more-possible', function( event ){
+ var $more_link=$(this);
+ if ( regexp.test($more_link.text()) ) {
+
+ $(document).bind('scroll', call_auto_more);
+ } else {
+ $(document).unbind('scroll', call_auto_more);
+
+ }
+ });
+})();
+</script>
+ <!--[if lt IE 9]><script src="//a.fsdn.com/sd/html5.js"></script><![endif]-->
+
+
+ <script type="text/javascript">
+ (function() {
+ if (typeof window.janrain !== 'object') window.janrain = {};
+ if (typeof window.janrain.settings !== 'object') window.janrain.settings = {};
+
+ /* _______________ can edit below this line _______________ */
+
+ janrain.settings.tokenUrl = 'https://slashdot.org/token_callback.pl';
+ janrain.settings.type = 'embed';
+ janrain.settings.appId = 'ggidemlconlmjciiohla';
+ janrain.settings.appUrl = 'https://login.slashdot.org';
+ janrain.settings.providers = [
+ 'googleplus',
+ 'facebook',
+ 'twitter',
+ 'linkedin'];
+ janrain.settings.providersPerPage = '5';
+ janrain.settings.format = 'one column';
+ janrain.settings.actionText = 'Sign in with';
+ janrain.settings.showAttribution = false;
+ janrain.settings.fontColor = '#666666';
+ janrain.settings.fontFamily = 'lucida grande, Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif';
+ janrain.settings.backgroundColor = '#ffffff';
+ janrain.settings.width = '300';
+ janrain.settings.borderColor = '#cccccc';
+ janrain.settings.borderRadius = '5'; janrain.settings.buttonBorderColor = '#CCCCCC';
+ janrain.settings.buttonBorderRadius = '0';
+ janrain.settings.buttonBackgroundStyle = 'gray';
+ janrain.settings.language = '';
+ janrain.settings.linkClass = 'janrainEngage';
+
+ /* _______________ can edit above this line _______________ */
+
+ function isReady() { janrain.ready = true; };
+ if (document.addEventListener) {
+ document.addEventListener("DOMContentLoaded", isReady, false);
+ } else {
+ window.attachEvent('onload', isReady);
+ }
+
+ var e = document.createElement('script');
+ e.type = 'text/javascript';
+ e.id = 'janrainAuthWidget';
+
+ e.src = 'https://rpxnow.com/js/lib/login.slashdot.org/engage.js';
+
+ var s = document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0];
+ s.parentNode.insertBefore(e, s);
+ })();
+ </script>
+
+ <script src="//cdn-social.janrain.com/social/janrain-social.min.js"></script>
+ <script type="text/javascript">
+ (function($) {
+ $(function(){
+ janrain.settings.appUrl = "https://login.slashdot.org";
+ $twitter = $('body .janrain_twitterButton');
+ $twitter.append('<i class="icon-twitter"></i>');
+
+ janrain.settings.social = {
+ providers: [
+ "native-facebook",
+ "twitter",
+ "linkedin",
+ "native-googleplus",
+ "native-reddit"
+ ],
+ shareCountMin: "100",
+ shareCountMode: "combined"
+ };
+ });
+ })($j);
+ </script>
+ <!-- index2_variant ||-->
+
+ <!-- TABOOLA -->
+ <script type="text/javascript">
+ if (!window.is_euro_union) {
+ window._taboola = window._taboola || [];
+ _taboola.push({home:'auto'});
+ !function (e, f, u) {
+ e.async = 1;
+ e.src = u;
+ f.parentNode.insertBefore(e, f);
+ }(document.createElement('script'),
+ document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0],
+ '//cdn.taboola.com/libtrc/slashdot/loader.js');
+ }
+ </script>
+
+ <!-- html-header type=current end --><!-- header type=current begin -->
+
+
+
+ <link rel="top" title="News for nerds, stuff that matters" href="//slashdot.org/" >
+<link rel="search" title="Search Slashdot" href="//news.slashdot.org/search.pl">
+<link rel="alternate" title="Slashdot RSS" href="http://rss.slashdot.org/Slashdot/slashdotMain" type="application/rss+xml">
+ <link rel="shortcut icon" href="/favicon.ico" type="image/x-icon">
+
+
+ <div id="top_parent"></div>
+ <a name="topothepage"></a>
+
+ <div class="container">
+ <div class="nav-wrap">
+ <nav class="nav-primary" role="navigation" aria-label="Global Navigation">
+ <h1 class="logo">
+ <a href="//slashdot.org"><span>Slashdot</span></a>
+</h1>
+
+<ul class="nav-site">
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org"><i class="icon-book" title="Stories"></i><span>Stories</span></a></li>
+ <li>
+ <ul class="filter-firehose">
+ <li class="nav-label">Firehose <i class="icon-angle-right"></i></li>
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org/recent">All</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org/popular">Popular</a></li>
+ </ul>
+ </li>
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org/polls"><i class="icon-chart-bar" title="Polls"></i><span>Polls</span></a></li>
+
+ <!--
+ <li><a href="//ask.slashdot.org"><i class="icon-question-circle"></i><span>Ask</span></a></li>
+
+ <li><a href="//events.slashdot.org"><i class="icon-calendar"></i><span>Events</span></a></li>
+ -->
+ <li><a href="http://deals.slashdot.org/?utm_source=slashdot&utm_medium=navbar&utm_campaign=dealshp_1" target="_blank"><i class="sd-mini" title="Deals"></i> <span>Deals</span></a></li>
+</ul>
+<a href="//slashdot.org/submission" class="btn btn-success">Submit</a>
+ </nav>
+ <nav class="nav-user" role="navigation" aria-label="user access and account controls">
+ <form id="search" class="form-inline nav-search-form" method="get" action="//slashdot.org/index2.pl">
+<!-- //news.slashdot.org/index2.pl" -->
+ <div class="form-group">
+ <label class="sr-only" for="sitesearch">Search Slashdot</label>
+ <div class="input-group">
+ <input type="text" id="" class="" name="fhfilter" value="" placeholder="Search">
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <button type="submit" class="btn icon-search"></button>
+</form>
+<ul class="user-access">
+
+
+ <li >
+ <a href="//slashdot.org/my/login" onclick="show_login_box(); return false;"><i class="icon-login"></i><span> Login</span></a>
+
+ </li>
+
+
+
+ <li class="nav-label">or</li>
+
+
+
+ <li >
+ <a href="//slashdot.org/my/newuser" ><i class="icon-user-add"></i><span> Sign up</span></a>
+
+ </li>
+
+
+</ul>
+ </nav>
+ </div>
+ <div class="nav-secondary-wrap">
+ <nav class="nav-secondary" role="secondary-navigation">
+ <ul>
+ <li class="nav-label">Topics: </li>
+ <li><a href="//devices.slashdot.org">Devices</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//build.slashdot.org">Build</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//entertainment.slashdot.org">Entertainment</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//technology.slashdot.org">Technology</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org/?fhfilter=opensource">Open Source</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//science.slashdot.org">Science</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//yro.slashdot.org">YRO</a></li>
+ <!-- <li><a href="//slashdot.org/topics.pl">more...</a></li> -->
+ </ul>
+</nav>
+<nav class="nav-social" role="social navigation">
+ <ul>
+ <li class="nav-label">Follow us:</li>
+ <li><a href="http://rss.slashdot.org/Slashdot/slashdotMain" target="_blank"><i class="icon-rss-squared"></i><span class="sr-only">RSS</span></a></li>
+ <li><a href="http://www.facebook.com/slashdot" target="_blank"><i class="icon-facebook-squared"></i><span class="sr-only">Facebook</span></a></li>
+ <li><a href="https://plus.google.com/112601993642376762846/" target="_blank"><i class="icon-gplus-squared"></i><span class="sr-only">Google+</span></a></li>
+ <li><a href="http://twitter.com/slashdot" target="_blank"><i class="icon-twitter-squared"></i><span class="sr-only">Twitter</span></a></li>
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org/newsletter" target="_blank"><i class="icon-mail-squared"></i><span class="sr-only">Newsletter</span></a></li>
+ </ul>
+</nav>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+
+ <section>
+
+ <div class="message-bar" id="firehose-message-tray">
+ <span class="icon-quote-left"></span>
+ <p>
+
+
+ Want to read Slashdot from your mobile device? Point it at <a href="http://m.slashdot.org">m.slashdot.org</a> and keep reading!
+
+ </p>
+ </div>
+
+
+ <div id='embbeded_login_modal' class="hide">
+<form action="https://slashdot.org/my/login" method="post" onsubmit="if (global_returnto) { this.returnto.value = global_returnto }" class="embedded"><fieldset style="-webkit-border-radius:10px 10px 0 0;border-radius:10px 10px 0 0;-moz-border-radius:10px 10px 0 0">
+<div style='height:25px;'> </div>
+ <input type="hidden" name="returnto" value="">
+ <input type="hidden" name="op" value="userlogin">
+ <p>
+ <label class="fleft" for="unickname">Nickname:</label>
+ <input type="text" name="unickname" value="">
+ </p>
+ <p>
+ <label class="fleft" for="upasswd">Password:</label>
+ <input type="password" name="upasswd" placeholder="6-1024 characters long">
+ </p>
+ <label class="checkbox"><input type="checkbox" name="login_temp" value="yes"> Public Terminal</label>
+ <br>
+ <hr>
+ <input type="submit" name="userlogin" value="Log In" class="fno"> <a href="//slashdot.org/my/mailpassword" class="btn link" onclick="getModalPrefs('sendPasswdModal', 'Retrieve Password', 1); return false;">Forgot your password?</a>
+</fieldset></form>
+
+<div id="janrainEngageEmbed"></div>
+<div class="actions">
+ <a class="ico close" onclick="hide_login_slider();" href=""><span>Close</span></a>
+</div>
+</div>
+
+
+ <div class="banner-wrapper">
+ <div class="adwrap adwrap-unviewed banner-contain">
+
+ <div id='div-gpt-ad-728x90_a'><script type='text/javascript'>
+googletag.cmd.push(function(){
+googletag.display('div-gpt-ad-728x90_a');});</script></div>
+ <div id='div-gpt-ad-hubicon_200x90_a'><script type='text/javascript'>
+googletag.cmd.push(function(){
+googletag.display('div-gpt-ad-hubicon_200x90_a');});</script></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+
+ <a name="main-articles"></a>
+
+ <!-- header type=current end --><!-- body begin -->
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <style type="text/css">
+menu, menu * {
+ text-decoration:none;
+}
+
+menu[type=context] {
+ display:none;
+ position:absolute;
+ z-index:10000;
+}
+
+menu[type=context]:not(.brief) {
+ background-color:#dfdfdf;
+ margin:0;
+ padding:2px 0.5em;
+ border-style:solid;
+ border-width:1px;
+ border-color:#eeeeee #aaaaaa #aaaaaa #eeeeee;
+ -moz-border-radius-topright:.7em;
+ -webkit-border-top-right-radius: 0.7em 0.7em;
+}
+
+menu.full[type=context] > a.slash-hover:first-child {
+ -moz-border-radius-topright:.6em;
+ -webkit-border-top-right-radius: 0.6em 0.6em;
+}
+
+
+
+menu.brief[type=context] > a {
+ -moz-border-radius:.6em;
+ -webkit-border-radius: 0.6em;
+ color:#ffffff;
+ background-color:#000000;
+}
+
+/*
+span.briefmenu a.tag:not(.datatype) {
+ padding-left:.5em;
+}
+*/
+
+
+
+
+/* #tag-menu a, #feedback-menu a { */
+menu.tag-menu-admin a {
+ display:list-item;
+ list-style:none;
+ text-align:left;
+ font-weight:bold;
+ color:black;
+ padding:0.1em 0.5em;
+ margin:-0.1em -0.5em;
+ cursor:pointer;
+}
+
+
+.tags .edit-bar { position:relative; }
+article aside .share .addthis_toolbox { display:block; width:60px; float:left; }
+article aside.view_mode .share { min-width:120px; padding-top:.5em; }
+#firehose.list article header h2 {padding-left: 20px; !important}
+.novote .vote { display:none; }
+
+.vote > a, .votedup > a, .voteddown > a {
+ display:inline-block;
+ height:22px;
+ width:22px;
+ margin: 2px 10px 0 0;
+ color:rgb(255,255,255);
+ text-decoration:none;
+ line-height:22px;
+ text-align:center;
+ font-weight:bold;
+ font-size:14px;
+ border-width:1px;
+ border-style:solid;
+ border-color:rgba(0,0,0,0.5);
+}
+
+.vote > a, .votedup > a, .voteddown > a {color:rgb(0,0,0);}
+
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+function open_menu( trigger, $menu ){
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+ // pin the menu (horizontally) on-screen
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+
+function close_menu( trigger, $menu ){
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+}
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+
+
+ var user_is_admin = 0;
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+
+$('a[rel=tag]').live('mousedown',function(ea){
+ window.open(this.href);
+ return false;
+})
+
+$('.tag-bar .disagree').live('mousedown',function(ee){
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+ try { Tags.submit(fhitem, command); } catch ( err ) { }
+ return false;
+})
+
+
+
+$('a[rel=tag]').
+ live('mousedown', function( e ){
+
+ return true;
+
+
+ }).
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+ if ( !logged_in ) {
+ var target = original_target(e),
+ tag = $(target).text();
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+ // Insert the tagname into the menu items where needed.
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+ command;
+
+ // Global for positioning other things.
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+ switch ( op ) {
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+ command = (op + tag).replace(NOTNOT, '');
+ try { Tags.submit(fhitem, command); } catch ( err ) { }
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+ stop: function( e, ui ){ close_menu(ui.trigger, $TAG_MENU); }
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+
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+
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+</script>
+
+
+
+<!-- SMACKS: BEGIN STORY CONTENT -->
+<div class="container">
+ <!--SMACKS: BEGING CENTER COLUMN -->
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+ <article id="firehose-102640274" data-fhid="102640274" data-fhtype="story" class="fhitem fhitem-story article usermode thumbs grid_24">
+ <span class="sd-info-block" style="display: none">
+ <span class="sd-key-firehose-id">102640274</span>
+ <span class="type">story</span>
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+ </span>
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+
+ </a>
+ </span>
+
+
+ <h2 class="story">
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <span id="title-102640274" class="story-title"> <a href="//news.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2043213/professor-who-coined-term-net-neutrality-thinks-its-time-to-break-up-facebook">Professor Who Coined Term 'Net Neutrality' Thinks It's Time To Break Up Facebook</a> <span class=" no extlnk"><a class="story-sourcelnk" href="https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/4/17816572/tim-wu-facebook-regulation-interview-curse-of-bigness-antitrust" title="External link - https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/4/17816572/tim-wu-facebook-regulation-interview-curse-of-bigness-antitrust" target="_blank"> (theverge.com) </a></span></span>
+
+
+
+ <!--<span class="comments commentcnt-102640274" >61</span>-->
+
+
+
+ <!-- comment bubble -->
+
+ <span class="comment-bubble"><a href="//news.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2043213/professor-who-coined-term-net-neutrality-thinks-its-time-to-break-up-facebook#comments" title="">61</a></span>
+
+ </h2>
+ <div class="details" id="details-102640274">
+ <span class="story-details">
+ <span class="story-views">
+ <span class="sodify" onclick="firehose_set_options('color', 'red')" title="Filter Firehose to entries rated red or better"></span><span class="icon-beaker pop1 " alt="Popularity" title="Filter Firehose to entries rated red or better" onclick="firehose_set_options('color', 'red')"><span></span></span>
+ </span>
+ </span>
+ <span class="story-byline">
+
+
+ Posted
+ by
+
+
+
+ <a href="https://twitter.com/BeauHD" rel="nofollow">BeauHD</a>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <time id="fhtime-102640274" datetime="on Thursday September 06, 2018 @08:03PM">on Thursday September 06, 2018 @08:03PM</time>
+
+
+ from the <span class="dept-text">easier-said-than-done</span> dept.
+
+ </span>
+ </div>
+</header>
+
+<div class="body" id="fhbody-102640274">
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <div id="text-102640274" class="p">
+
+
+ <a href="/~pgmrdlm">pgmrdlm</a> shares a report from The Verge: <i>Best known for coining the phrase "net neutrality" and his book The Master Switch: The Rise and Fall of Information Empires, Wu has a new book coming out in November called <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Curse-Bigness-Antitrust-New-Gilded/dp/0999745468">The Curse of Bigness: Antitrust in the New Gilded Age</a>. In it, he argues compellingly for a return to aggressive antitrust enforcement in the style of Teddy Roosevelt, saying that Google, Facebook, Amazon, and other huge tech companies <a href="https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/4/17816572/tim-wu-facebook-regulation-interview-curse-of-bigness-antitrust">are a threat to democracy as they get bigger and bigger</a>. "We live in America, which has a strong and proud tradition of breaking up companies that are too big for inefficient reasons," Wu told me on this week's Vergecast. "We need to reverse this idea that it's not an American tradition. We've broken up dozens of companies."
+<br> <br>
+"I think if you took a hard look at the acquisition of WhatsApp and Instagram, the argument that the effects of those acquisitions have been anticompetitive would be easy to prove for a number of reasons," says Wu. And breaking up the company wouldn't be hard, he says. "What would be the harm? You'll have three competitors. It's not 'Oh my god, if you get rid of WhatsApp and Instagram, well then the whole world's going to fall apart.' It would be like 'Okay, now you have some companies actually trying to offer you an alternative to Facebook.'" Breaking up Facebook (and other huge tech companies like Google and Amazon) could be simple under the current law, suggests Wu. But it could also lead to a major rethinking of how antitrust law should work in a world where the giant platform companies give their products away for free, and the ability for the government to restrict corporate power seems to be diminishing by the day. And it demands that we all think seriously about the conditions that create innovation. "I think everyone's steering way away from the monopolies, and I think it's hurting innovation in the tech sector," says Wu.</i><br>
+
+ </div>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ </div>
+ <aside class="grid_24 view_mode">
+
+ <div class="units-12 story-detail-tags">
+ <span id="sharethis-102640274" class="">
+
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+
+ <div class="story-controls">
+ <div
+ class="janrainSocialPlaceholder"
+ data-janrain-url="https://news.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2043213/professor-who-coined-term-net-neutrality-thinks-its-time-to-break-up-facebook"
+ data-janrain-title="Professor Who Coined Term 'Net Neutrality' Thinks It's Time To Break Up Facebook"
+ data-janrain-message="Professor Who Coined Term 'Net Neutrality' Thinks It's Time To Break Up Facebook @slashdot"
+ ></div>
+ </div>
+
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+ <div class="grid_6 pr">
+ <h3><a title="Previous story" href="//hardware.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2058201/mit-graduate-creates-robot-that-swims-through-pipes-to-find-out-if-theyre-leaking?sdsrc=prev">←</a></h3>
+ </div>
+ <div class="grid_12 rl">
+ <h3>You may like to read:</h3>
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+ </div>
+ <div class="grid_6">
+ <span class="c">
+ <a href="//hardware.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2058201/mit-graduate-creates-robot-that-swims-through-pipes-to-find-out-if-theyre-leaking?sdsrc=prev">MIT Graduate Creates Robot That Swims Through Pipes To Find Out If They're Leaking </a>
+ </span>
+ </div>
+ <div class="grid_12">
+ <span class="c">
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <h2><a href="//news.slashdot.org/story/18/08/14/1628218/fewer-than-half-of-young-americans-are-positive-about-capitalism?sdsrc=popbyskid">Fewer Than Half of Young Americans Are Positive About Capitalism</a><br></h2>
+ <h2><a href="//news.slashdot.org/story/18/08/26/1919246/mass-shooting-reported-at-madden-video-game-tournament-in-florida?sdsrc=popbyskid">Mass Shooting Reported at Madden Video Game Tournament in Florida</a><br></h2>
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+ <h2><a href="//news.slashdot.org/story/18/07/31/2223201/san-francisco-officials-are-planning-to-ban-corporate-cafeterias-force-tech-workers-to-eat-out-at-local-restaurants?sdsrc=popbyskid">San Francisco Officials Are Planning To Ban Corporate Cafeterias, Force Tech Workers To Eat Out At Local Restaurants</a><br></h2>
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+
+
+
+ <h3 class="js_disp_only hide"><a class="jshandle_related" data-goto-url="//news.slashdot.org/submission/8569644/tim-wu-thinks-its-time-to-break-up-facebook?sdsrc=rel" href="#">Submission: Tim Wu thinks it's time to break up Facebook.</a></h3><script type="text/javascript">
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+ });
+ })($j);
+ </script>
+
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+ <span class="c">
+
+ <a href="//games.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2146237/valve-explains-how-it-decides-whos-a-straight-up-troll-publishing-video-games-on-steam?sdsrc=next">Valve Explains How It Decides Who's a 'Straight Up Troll' Publishing Video Games On Steam</a>
+
+ </span>
+ </div>
+ </section>
+
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+
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+
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+
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+
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+
+
+
+
+ <ul id="commentlisting" class="d2">
+ <li id="tree_57266778" class="comment full contain"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266778" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266778" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266778" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266778" name="comment_link_57266778" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&cid=57266778" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266778)" >Safe Harbor</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266778" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266778); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>5</a>, Interesting)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Kunedog">Kunedog</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Kunedog">( 1033226 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266778">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @08:09PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&cid=57266778">#57266778</a>)
+ <small> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266778">There's a simpler way: <br>
+<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMLLlnRCBqg" title="youtube.com">https://www.youtube.com/watch?...</a> [youtube.com] <br> <br>
+
+If they want to curate content according to their political bias, then treat them like the politically-biased media outlets they are, legally liable for the content they host, instead of platforms under "safe harbor" protections. If they want to continue to be treated like platforms, then they can keep their hands off their political opponents' speech.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266778">
+<span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57266778" class="btn link" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&op=Reply&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266778" onclick="D2.replyTo(57266778); return false;">Reply to This</a> <a href="#" class="comment_share_toggle btn link">Share</a>
+ <div class="comment_share sharethis-0 hide"><span class="au"></span>
+ <a class="janrain t" href="#" data-provider="twitter" data-message="Safe Harbor by Kunedog @slashdot" data-url="https://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&cid=57266778" data-title="Safe Harbor">twitter</a>
+ <a class="janrain f" href="#" data-provider="facebook" data-message="Safe Harbor by Kunedog" data-url="https://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&cid=57266778" data-title="Safe Harbor">facebook</a>
+ <a class="janrain l" href="#" data-provider="linkedin" data-message="Safe Harbor by Kunedog" data-url="https://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&cid=57266778" data-title="Safe Harbor">linkedin</a>
+ <a class="g" href="https://plus.google.com/share?url=https://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506%26cid=57266778" onclick="javascript:window.open(this.href,'', 'menubar=no,toolbar=no,resizable=yes,scrollbars=yes,height=600,width=600');return false;"><img src="//www.gstatic.com/images/icons/gplus-16.png" alt="Share on Google+"/></a>
+ </div>
+ <span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57266778" title="Flag this comment as Inappropriate" class="ui-icon flag fright" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&op=flag&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266778" onclick="return false;">Flag as Inappropriate</a>
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+</ul>
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+
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+
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+ <li id="hiddens_57266828" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
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+<div id="comment_status_57266848" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266848" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266848"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266848">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266848" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266850" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266850" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266850" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266850"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266850">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266850" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
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+ <li id="hiddens_57266860" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266902" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266902" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266902" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266902" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266902" name="comment_link_57266902" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&cid=57266902" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266902)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266902" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266902); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~HornWumpus">HornWumpus</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~HornWumpus">( 783565 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266902"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266902"><p>
+They're already not 'common carriers' so they really didn't lose anything by curating.
+</p><p>
+The solution is to reestablish 'common carrier' protections for those web forums that deserve it.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266902">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266902"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266902">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266902" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266964" class="comment full contain"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266964" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266964" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266964" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266964" name="comment_link_57266964" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&cid=57266964" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266964)" >Re:Safe Harbor</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266964" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266964); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>4</a>, Interesting)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~pots">pots</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~pots">( 5047349 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266964">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @09:02PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&cid=57266964">#57266964</a>)
+ <small> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266964">I didn't read the article, but the summary has nothing to do with what you're talking about. The issue at hand is monopolies and the consequent stifling of innovation and lack of competitive pressure, that being the only thing which makes our economy work for people instead of against them.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266964">
+<span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57266964" class="btn link" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&op=Reply&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266964" onclick="D2.replyTo(57266964); return false;">Reply to This</a> <span class="ind"></span><a class="btn link" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&cid=57266778" onclick="return D2.selectParent(57266778)">Parent</a> <a href="#" class="comment_share_toggle btn link">Share</a>
+ <div class="comment_share sharethis-0 hide"><span class="au"></span>
+ <a class="janrain t" href="#" data-provider="twitter" data-message="Re:Safe Harbor by pots @slashdot" data-url="https://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&cid=57266964" data-title="Re:Safe Harbor">twitter</a>
+ <a class="janrain f" href="#" data-provider="facebook" data-message="Re:Safe Harbor by pots" data-url="https://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&cid=57266964" data-title="Re:Safe Harbor">facebook</a>
+ <a class="janrain l" href="#" data-provider="linkedin" data-message="Re:Safe Harbor by pots" data-url="https://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&cid=57266964" data-title="Re:Safe Harbor">linkedin</a>
+ <a class="g" href="https://plus.google.com/share?url=https://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506%26cid=57266964" onclick="javascript:window.open(this.href,'', 'menubar=no,toolbar=no,resizable=yes,scrollbars=yes,height=600,width=600');return false;"><img src="//www.gstatic.com/images/icons/gplus-16.png" alt="Share on Google+"/></a>
+ </div>
+ <span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57266964" title="Flag this comment as Inappropriate" class="ui-icon flag fright" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&op=flag&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266964" onclick="return false;">Flag as Inappropriate</a>
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266964"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266964">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266964" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266988" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266988" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266988" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266988"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266988">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266988" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267336" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267336" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267336" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267336"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267336">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267336" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57266778"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266778">7 replies</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266784" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266784" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266784" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266784" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266784" name="comment_link_57266784" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&cid=57266784" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266784)" >Holy Fuck</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266784" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266784); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>1</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span>Anonymous Coward</span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266784"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266784"><p>Why do I bother coming here anymore?</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266784">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266784"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266784">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266784" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266784"><li id="tree_57266806" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266806" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266806" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266806"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266806">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266806" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266806"><li id="tree_57266862" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266862" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266862" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266862" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266862" name="comment_link_57266862" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&cid=57266862" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266862)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266862" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266862); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>3</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~ArchieBunker">ArchieBunker</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~ArchieBunker">( 132337 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266862"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266862"><p>We don't even have that anymore.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266862">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266862"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266862">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266862" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266956" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266956" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266956" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266956" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266956" name="comment_link_57266956" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&cid=57266956" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266956)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266956" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266956); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>1</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~DontBeAMoran">DontBeAMoran</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~DontBeAMoran">( 4843879 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266956"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266956"><p>PHRASING.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266956">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266956"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266956">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266956" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267036" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267036" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267036" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267036"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267036">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267036" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267182" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267182" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267182" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267182"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267182">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267182" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57267182"><li id="tree_57267386" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267386" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267386" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267386" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267386" name="comment_link_57267386" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&cid=57267386" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267386)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267386" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267386); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>1</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~rojash">rojash</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~rojash">( 2567409 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267386"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267386">i really wanted to mod this up...but screw this mod point rationing here</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267386">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267386"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267386">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267386" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li></ul></li><li id="hidestring_57266784"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266784">3 replies</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266804" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266804" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266804" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266804"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266804">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266804" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266804"><li id="tree_57267468" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267468" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267468" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267468" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267468" name="comment_link_57267468" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&cid=57267468" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267468)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267468" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267468); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~LostMyBeaver">LostMyBeaver</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~LostMyBeaver">( 1226054 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267468"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267468">I honestly want the monopolies to pretend to strengthen democracy.<br><span class="substr"> </span> <br>At this point in time,<br>Jeff Bezos owns Amazon and news papers and whatever else<br>Satya Nadella is in control of one of the biggest new networks (which slashdotters will never see because it's through Edge and Bing)<br>The Alphabet boys are in control of what almost everyone in the world sees<br>Zuck and Dorsey could easily control a MASSIVE amount of what everyone sees.<br> <br>What's also important is that most of these people seem to have some inkling of wanti</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267468">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267468"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267468">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267468" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267700" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267700" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267700" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267700" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267700" name="comment_link_57267700" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&cid=57267700" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267700)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267700" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267700); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>1</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Tyger-ZA">Tyger-ZA</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Tyger-ZA">( 1886544 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267700"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267700"><p>It's correct that people want one point of access to a thing, but nobody really wants a monopoly.</p><p>Assuming that one inevitably leads to the other is part of the problem.</p><p>For example, with the video streaming sites, what we really need is for them to <i>collaborate</i> on the platform (how you login and watch shit) but <i>compete</i> on the content, meaning that if you watch American Gods on the shared platform, Amazon gets paid a share of your subscription, yet if you watch Luke Cage on the <i>same platform</i>, Netflix gets paid<span class="substr"> </span></p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267700">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267700"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267700">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267700" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266810" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266810" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266810" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266810"></div>
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+<ul id="group_57266810">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266810" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266810"><li id="tree_57267512" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267512" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267512" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267512" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267512" name="comment_link_57267512" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&cid=57267512" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267512)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267512" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267512); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~LostMyBeaver">LostMyBeaver</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~LostMyBeaver">( 1226054 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267512"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267512">Nope... that was back before we had mass real-time media and we didn't fully understand how incredibly fucked the entire government was.<br><span class="substr"> </span> <br>Then there was FDR who had the national radio and used it as a weapon against others in Washington to give him near-dictator powers. And then he completely without foresight fucked up the political system in America by imposing term limits which meant that politicians who have real plans that take more than 8 years to accomplish... won't.<br> <br>When we got TV and had 1-3 channels,</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267512">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267512"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267512">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267512" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266812" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266812" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266812" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266812" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266812" name="comment_link_57266812" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&cid=57266812" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266812)" >Professor? Professor?</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266812" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266812); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~NoNonAlphaCharsHere">NoNonAlphaCharsHere</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~NoNonAlphaCharsHere">( 2201864 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266812"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266812">Professor Who???</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266812">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266812"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266812">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266812" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266812"><li id="tree_57266822" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266822" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266822" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266822"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266822">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266822" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267052" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267052" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267052" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267052"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267052">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267052" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267264" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267264" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267264" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267264" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267264" name="comment_link_57267264" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&cid=57267264" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267264)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267264" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267264); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>1</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~antdude">antdude</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~antdude">( 79039 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267264"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267264"><p>Dr. Who!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:D</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267264">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267264"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267264">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267264" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57266812"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266812">2 replies</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266868" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266868" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266868" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266868" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266868" name="comment_link_57266868" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&cid=57266868" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266868)" >How</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266868" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266868); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~ArchieBunker">ArchieBunker</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~ArchieBunker">( 132337 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266868"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266868"><p>exactly do you break up a company who offers a service for free?</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266868">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266868"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266868">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266868" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266868"><li id="tree_57266968" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266968" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266968" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266968" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266968" name="comment_link_57266968" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&cid=57266968" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266968)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266968" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266968); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>1</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~pots">pots</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~pots">( 5047349 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266968"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266968">Facebook's service is selling advertising. It is not free, they are the #2 advertiser in the world right now (I think that's right, but I'm not going to look it up).</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266968">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266968"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266968">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266968" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266968"><li id="tree_57267412" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267412" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267412" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267412"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267412">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267412" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57266968"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266968">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57267188" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267188" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267188" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267188"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267188">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267188" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267210" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267210" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267210" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267210"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267210">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267210" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57266868"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266868">2 replies</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266870" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266870" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266870" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266870" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266870" name="comment_link_57266870" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&cid=57266870" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266870)" >Facebook, Google, and Apple need to be broken up. </a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266870" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266870); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>1</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~WCMI92">WCMI92</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~WCMI92">( 592436 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266870"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266870"><p>Microsoft has fallen below the zone they were once in.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266870">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266870"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266870">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266870" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266892" class="comment full contain"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266892" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266892" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266892" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266892" name="comment_link_57266892" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&cid=57266892" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266892)" >And how would that solve anything for consumers?</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266892" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266892); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>3</a>, Interesting)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span>Anonymous Coward</span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266892">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @08:38PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&cid=57266892">#57266892</a>)
+ <small> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266892"><p>Facebook has grown because it offered the best social platform for users. The point of social platforms is to connect with everyone else. Fragmentation means people needing to belong to and check multiple platforms. Trying to force competition won't solve any user issues. However, once Facebook stops providing a compelling service, people will move on their own. The same as they gave up MySpace and the same as they rejected Google+. The market chose Facebook and will purge it when time comes.</p><p>The same with Google. There were plenty of entrenched search services when Google came to be. Users chose it because it was better. The old search services died because they didn't evolve. If Google stops being the best fit option, people will go somewhere else. They already have choices like Bing and Duck Duck Go. As the service is free, people are choosing based on functionality, not on price. Those that don't like the privacy price of Google are opting for other services. You can't just declare another search service is required and then force the public to use it so that you can claim to have multiple services with comparable market share.</p><p>If people were given a choice of all you can eat steak or beets at equal cost, odds are that the majority would choose steak. When you remove cost and scarcity, the premium option will dominate. Digital services don't have scarcity like physical products do. It's a different economy.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266892">
+<span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57266892" class="btn link" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&op=Reply&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266892" onclick="D2.replyTo(57266892); return false;">Reply to This</a> <a href="#" class="comment_share_toggle btn link">Share</a>
+ <div class="comment_share sharethis-0 hide"><span class="au"></span>
+ <a class="janrain t" href="#" data-provider="twitter" data-message="And how would that solve anything for consumers? by Anonymous Coward @slashdot" data-url="https://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&cid=57266892" data-title="And how would that solve anything for consumers?">twitter</a>
+ <a class="janrain f" href="#" data-provider="facebook" data-message="And how would that solve anything for consumers? by Anonymous Coward" data-url="https://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&cid=57266892" data-title="And how would that solve anything for consumers?">facebook</a>
+ <a class="janrain l" href="#" data-provider="linkedin" data-message="And how would that solve anything for consumers? by Anonymous Coward" data-url="https://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&cid=57266892" data-title="And how would that solve anything for consumers?">linkedin</a>
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+ </div>
+ <span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57266892" title="Flag this comment as Inappropriate" class="ui-icon flag fright" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&op=flag&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266892" onclick="return false;">Flag as Inappropriate</a>
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266892"></div>
+
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+ <li id="hiddens_57266892" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266892"><li id="tree_57266990" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266990" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266990" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266990" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266990" name="comment_link_57266990" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&cid=57266990" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266990)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266990" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266990); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>1</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~pots">pots</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~pots">( 5047349 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266990"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266990"><p><div class="quote"><p>Facebook has grown because it offered the best social platform for users.</p></div><p>As stated in the summary: Facebook has grown by purchasing their competitors. The summary mentions WhatsApp and Instagram specifically.<br> <br>
+
+Your comment about the problem with fragmentation is an example of why Facebook needs to be broken up by an outside entity: they have a natural monopoly, since real competition from startups would lead to fragmentation.<br> <br>
+
+I've said this before, but if the government came along and broke up the company by splitting off Facebook's front-end from its back-end, then we could<span class="substr"> </span></p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266990">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266990"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266990">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266990" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266990"><li id="tree_57267376" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267376" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267376" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267376" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267376" name="comment_link_57267376" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&cid=57267376" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267376)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267376" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267376); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~jrumney">jrumney</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~jrumney">( 197329 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267376"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267376"><p><div class="quote"><p>As stated in the summary: Facebook has grown by purchasing their competitors. The summary mentions WhatsApp and Instagram specifically.</p></div><p>While this is true, so far they have not bought their competitors to shut them down, or to raise prices to the detriment of consumers. They are building a monopoly, but so far, it is not harmful from an economic perspective, and unfortunately I don't think anti-trust law is concerned with privacy, so the case for breaking up Facebook is not strong.</p><p>Apple would be a much juicier target, especially as they recently became the world's first trillion dollar company (with Amazon close behind). Splitting out the<span class="substr"> </span></p></div>
+ </div>
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+<div id="comment_status_57266904" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266904" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266904" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266904" name="comment_link_57266904" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&cid=57266904" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266904)" >ok</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266904" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266904); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>1</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Alyks">Alyks</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Alyks">( 798644 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266904"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266904">why do I care about a guy whose biggest contribution to this subject is clever phrasing?</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266904">
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+</div>
+</div>
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+<div id="replyto_57266904"></div>
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+<ul id="commtree_57266904"><li id="tree_57266962" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
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+<div id="comment_57266962" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266962" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266962" name="comment_link_57266962" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&cid=57266962" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266962)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266962" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266962); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Zontar+The+Mindless">Zontar The Mindless</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Zontar+The+Mindless">( 9002 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266962"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266962"><blockquote><div><p> <em>Are you with me Doctor Wu<br>Are you really just a shadow<br>Of the man that I once knew<br>Are you crazy are you high<br>Or just an ordinary guy<br>Have you done all you can do<br>Are you with me Doctor</em></p></div> </blockquote></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266962">
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+</div>
+</div>
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+</li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266914" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
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+ <li id="hiddens_57267084" class="hide"></li>
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+<div id="comment_status_57267334" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267334" class="cw">
+</div>
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+<div id="replyto_57267334"></div>
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+<ul id="group_57267334">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267334" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
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+</li><li id="hidestring_57267084"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57267084">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57267102" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267102" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267102" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267102"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267102">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267102" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267120" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267120" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267120" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267120" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267120" name="comment_link_57267120" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&cid=57267120" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267120)" >We need open platforms</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267120" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267120); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>1</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Karmashock">Karmashock</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Karmashock">( 2415832 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267120"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267120"><p>These proprietary social networks are bad for free speech.</p><p>I have no problem with facebook, google, twitter, except that they concentrate the internet in the hands of a few large companies.</p><p>We need open platforms like HTML, TCP/IP, Email, Newsgroups, etc.</p><p>All old retrograde stuff according to the children. But there isn't one of these social networks that couldn't be made P2P or something that anyone could set up their own personal server for that interlinked with each other.</p><p>A 20 dollar raspberry pi could host<span class="substr"> </span></p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267120">
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+<ul id="group_57267430">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267430" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
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+</li><li id="hidestring_57267138"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57267138">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57267144" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267144" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267144" class="cw">
+</div>
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+<div id="replyto_57267144"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267144">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267144" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
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+</li><li id="tree_57267206" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267206" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267206" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267206"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267206">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267206" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267268" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267268" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267268" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267268" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267268" name="comment_link_57267268" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&cid=57267268" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267268)" >Not a monopoly or required...</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267268" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267268); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Archfeld">Archfeld</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Archfeld">( 6757 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267268"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267268"><p>I don't like Facebook either but its not a monopoly, nor is it required in anyway to use the internet. Anyone could come up with the next social network thing anytime now or you can just NOT use Facebook. It isn't like an OS or a browser that is necessary for use or access to anything. Facebook or Twitter are tools of convenience and can easily be done without. If you don't like what is being said filter it out or don't use either.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267268">
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+</div>
+</div>
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+<ul id="group_57267576">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267576" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
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+</li><li id="hidestring_57267268"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57267268">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57267308" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267308" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267308" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267308" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267308" name="comment_link_57267308" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&cid=57267308" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267308)" >We had the chance...</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267308" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267308); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~erp_consultant">erp_consultant</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~erp_consultant">( 2614861 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267308"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267308"><p>and blew it...with Microsoft. They should have been broken up just like Standard Oil. But they were not and that just created a precedent for companies like Facebook and Amazon and Google. We reap what we sow.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267308">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267308"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267308">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267308" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267324" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267324" class="commentstatus"></div>
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+</div>
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+<div id="replyto_57267324"></div>
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+<ul id="group_57267324">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267324" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
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+<div id="comment_status_57267382" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267382" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267382"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267382">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267382" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267424" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267424" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267424" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267424" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267424" name="comment_link_57267424" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&cid=57267424" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267424)" >Why I posted this</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267424" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267424); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~pgmrdlm">pgmrdlm</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~pgmrdlm">( 1642279 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267424"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267424">Look, I don't get my news from Facebook. Local, National, World. Be it political or otherwise.
+
+I don't give a shit about who they ban, and who they don't. I don't give a shit on who they censor, and who they don't. Just don't care.
+
+Face book has purchased the following which was competition. At least they didn't kill them. They own Tinder, dating. They own Instagram, another form of social media. And a couple others were mentioned in the article.
+
+My profile was not used by that company that tried t</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267424">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267424"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267424">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267424" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267428" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267428" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267428" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267428" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267428" name="comment_link_57267428" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&cid=57267428" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267428)" >What the f____</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267428" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267428); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~WolfgangVL">WolfgangVL</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~WolfgangVL">( 3494585 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267428"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267428"><p>"Look over here! See? We're thinking about maybe eventually doing something someday! (Pay no attention to the massive personal data collection feast that every-single-damn-corporation and government in the entire bloody world is gorging on behind the curtain)"</p><p>WHY do people give so many shits for instabook and facegram? It's not something anybody actually needs to begin with. For fucks sake. Big tech is not "The internet"... in fact, the case has been made that these companies are big evil time eaters that p<span class="substr"> </span></p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267428">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267428"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267428">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267428" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57267428"><li id="tree_57267458" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267458" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267458" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267458" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267458" name="comment_link_57267458" href="//news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580506&cid=57267458" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267458)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267458" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267458); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~pgmrdlm">pgmrdlm</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~pgmrdlm">( 1642279 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267458"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267458">Hell, let's start with the fact that before Facebook, what ever. Credit cards are tracked, companies record everything you purchase from them. Those company cards on your key change to save 3 cents. That is all tracked.
+
+And it is all shared via companies selling the information</div>
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+ <div id='div-gpt-ad-1x1'><script type='text/javascript'>
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+
+
+ <!-- footer type=current end -->
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+<!-- html-header type=current begin -->
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+
+ <html lang="en">
+ <head>
+ <!-- Render IE9 -->
+ <meta http-equiv="X-UA-Compatible" content="IE=edge,chrome=1">
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+ if (!window.is_euro_union) {
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+<div class="container">
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+ $.cookie('hide_sitenotice_36', 'true', { path: '/', domain: 'slashdot.org', expires: 1 });
+}
+</script>
+ <article id="firehose-102640864" data-fhid="102640864" data-fhtype="story" class="fhitem fhitem-story article usermode thumbs grid_24">
+ <span class="sd-info-block" style="display: none">
+ <span class="sd-key-firehose-id">102640864</span>
+ <span class="type">story</span>
+
+ </span>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<header>
+
+ <span class="topic" id="topic-102640864">
+ <a href="//politics.slashdot.org/index2.pl?fhfilter=government" onclick="return addfhfilter('government');">
+
+ <img src="//a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/government_64.png" width="64" height="64" alt="Government" title="Government">
+
+ </a>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <a href="//politics.slashdot.org/index2.pl?fhfilter=privacy" onclick="return addfhfilter('privacy');">
+
+ <img src="//a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/privacy_64.png" width="64" height="64" alt="Privacy" title="Privacy">
+
+ </a>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <a href="//politics.slashdot.org/index2.pl?fhfilter=security" onclick="return addfhfilter('security');">
+
+ <img src="//a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/security_64.png" width="64" height="64" alt="Security" title="Security">
+
+ </a>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <a href="//politics.slashdot.org/index2.pl?fhfilter=usa" onclick="return addfhfilter('usa');">
+
+ <img src="//a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/usa_64.png" width="64" height="64" alt="United States" title="United States">
+
+ </a>
+
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+
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+ <a href="//politics.slashdot.org/index2.pl?fhfilter=politics" onclick="return addfhfilter('politics');">
+
+ <img src="//a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/politics_64.png" width="64" height="64" alt="Politics" title="Politics">
+
+ </a>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <a href="//politics.slashdot.org/index2.pl?fhfilter=technology" onclick="return addfhfilter('technology');">
+
+ <img src="//a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/technology_64.png" width="64" height="64" alt="Technology" title="Technology">
+
+ </a>
+ </span>
+
+
+ <h2 class="story">
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <span id="title-102640864" class="story-title"> <a href="//politics.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2137245/blockchains-are-not-safe-for-voting-concludes-nap-report">Blockchains Are Not Safe For Voting, Concludes NAP Report</a> <span class=" no extlnk"><a class="story-sourcelnk" href="https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2018/09/06/technology/ap-us-tec-election-security-reform-report.html" title="External link - https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2018/09/06/technology/ap-us-tec-election-security-reform-report.html" target="_blank"> (nytimes.com) </a></span></span>
+
+
+
+ <!--<span class="comments commentcnt-102640864" >52</span>-->
+
+
+
+ <!-- comment bubble -->
+
+ <span class="comment-bubble"><a href="//politics.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2137245/blockchains-are-not-safe-for-voting-concludes-nap-report#comments" title="">52</a></span>
+
+ </h2>
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+ <time id="fhtime-102640864" datetime="on Thursday September 06, 2018 @06:40PM">on Thursday September 06, 2018 @06:40PM</time>
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+ The National Academies Press has released a 156-page report, called "<a href="https://www.nap.edu/catalog/25120/securing-the-vote-protecting-american-democracy">Securing the Vote: Protecting American Democracy</a>," concluding that blockchains are not safe for the U.S. election system. "While the notion of using a blockchain as an immutable ballot box may seem promising, blockchain technology does little to solve the fundamental security issues of elections, and indeed, blockchains introduce additional security vulnerabilities," the report <a href="https://www.nap.edu/read/25120/chapter/7#103">states</a>. "In particular, if malware on a voter's device alters a vote before it ever reaches a blockchain, the immutability of the blockchain fails to provide the desired integrity, and the voter may never know of the alteration."<br> <br> The report goes on to say that "Blockchains do not provide the anonymity often ascribed to them." It continues: "In the particular context of elections, voters need to be authorized as eligible to vote and as not having cast more than one ballot in the particular election. Blockchains do not offer means for providing the necessary authorization. [...] If a blockchain is used, then cast ballots must be encrypted or otherwise anonymized to prevent coercion and vote-selling." The New York Times summarizes the findings: <i> The cautiously worded report <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2018/09/06/technology/ap-us-tec-election-security-reform-report.html">calls for conducting all federal, state and local elections on paper ballots by 2020</a>. Its other top recommendation would require nationwide use of a specific form of routine postelection audit to ensure votes have been accurately counted. The panel did not offer a price tag for its recommended overhaul. New York University's Brennan Center has estimated that replacing aging voting machines over the next few years could cost well over $1 billion. The 156-page report [...] bemoans a rickety system compromised by insecure voting equipment and software whose vulnerabilities were exposed more than a decade ago and which are too often managed by officials with little training in cybersecurity.
+<br> <br>
+Among its specific recommendations was a mainstay of election reformers: All elections should use human-readable paper ballots by 2020. Such systems are intended to assure voters that their vote was recorded accurately. They also create a lasting record of "voter intent" that can be used for reliable recounts, which may not be possible in systems that record votes electronically. [...] The panel also calls for all states to adopt a type of post-election audit that employs statistical analysis of ballots prior to results certification. Such "risk-limiting" audits are designed to uncover miscounts and vote tampering. Currently only three states mandate them. </i><br>
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+ <li id="tree_57266446" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
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+ <div id="comment_top_57266476" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266476" name="comment_link_57266476" href="//politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&cid=57266476" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266476)" >Re:All security = an implementation.</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266476" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266476); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>5</a>, Insightful)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~PopeRatzo">PopeRatzo</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~PopeRatzo">( 965947 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266476">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @06:55PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&cid=57266476">#57266476</a>)
+ <small><a href="//slashdot.org/~PopeRatzo/journal/" title="Monday March 26, 2018 @10:19PM" class="user_journal_display">Journal</a> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266476"><blockquote><div><p>To say blockchain is inherently unsafe is like saying software is inherently unsafe</p></div></blockquote><p>Oh, you are so close to a breakthrough.</p><p>When it comes to voting, blockchain, like software, IS inherently unsafe. If the main goal for voting security is maintaining the people's confidence in an election, the only system that will meet that standard is a system where people are actually keeping an eye on one another. And I mean physically watching one another. And that's the system we had in place before the advent of voting machines and election software. You had a room full of election judges from both sides, and they sat side-by-side checking in voters as they approached the voting booth and physically watched them put the ballot in the box. When the votes were counted, there was a whole bunch of people from both parties standing around keeping a close eye. When the ballots were sent for storage, one person from each party rode in the truck to drop them off after sealing the container - together - and signing off.</p><p>It was trust, but verify. Was it possible to jigger with an election like that? Of course. But you had a list of names of people you could hold accountable at every step in the process. Electronic voting will never, ever be trusted. That is the effect of transparency.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266476">
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+ <div class="comment_share sharethis-0 hide"><span class="au"></span>
+ <a class="janrain t" href="#" data-provider="twitter" data-message="Re:All security = an implementation. by PopeRatzo @slashdot" data-url="https://politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&cid=57266476" data-title="Re:All security = an implementation.">twitter</a>
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+<ul id="commtree_57266510"><li id="tree_57266548" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266548" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266548" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266548" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266548" name="comment_link_57266548" href="//politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&cid=57266548" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266548)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266548" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266548); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>1</a>, Insightful)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span>Anonymous Coward</span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266548"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266548"><p><div class="quote"><p>" If the main goal for voting security is maintaining the people's confidence in an election " - Well I don't agree with that starting point definition. I think security = security, not theater of.</p></div><p>Then you're bad at security. Security is theater.</p><p>There is no impregnable system. Security can only increase the difficulty of entering a system, it cannot stop a determined opponent. Is a CCTV system going to stop someone from breaking into your store? No, but it will make the person think twice about it, because they are likely to be recorded, found, and caught. Is the TSA likely to stop all bad guys from getting on planes? No, but it alters how much they must prepare to get on board the plane so hop<span class="substr"> </span></p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266548">
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+</li><li id="hidestring_57266714"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266714">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57267690" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267690" class="commentstatus"></div>
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+ <div id="comment_top_57267690" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267690" name="comment_link_57267690" href="//politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&cid=57267690" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267690)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267690" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267690); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Ocker3">Ocker3</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Ocker3">( 1232550 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267690"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267690">Sadly, the TSA haven't shown themselves to be any good at their job, repeatedly. It's hard to get good help when the work is shite, the 'customers' range from sullen to hating you, and the pay is peanuts.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267690">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267690"></div>
+
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+ <li id="hiddens_57267690" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57266548"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266548">3 replies</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266742" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266742" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266742" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266742" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266742" name="comment_link_57266742" href="//politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&cid=57266742" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266742)" >Transparency is the key</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266742" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266742); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>1</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~victor_alarcon">victor_alarcon</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~victor_alarcon">( 5520418 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266742"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266742">I thought that was the main selling point. Yes, I'm sure someone can come up with some anonymity scheme but transparency should be top priority. Apologies if the point is too naive.</div>
+ </div>
+
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+ <div id="comment_top_57266874" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266874" name="comment_link_57266874" href="//politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&cid=57266874" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266874)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266874" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266874); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>1</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span>Anonymous Coward</span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266874"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266874"><p>Paper votes aren't any better, just look at Russia's vote stuffing. Literately. Someone comes up to the booth and stuffs fake/coerced votes into the box.</p><p>Now the way most US, Canadian, and UK elections are run, the paper vote is a two-step process.</p><p>A) You go to a scrutineer to check your name off a PAPER list, they hand you a ballot with no identifying information on it<br>B) You mark an X on the ballot, fold it in half or stick it in a privacy envelope and then stick it in a cardboard box with a hole on top.</p><p>Now<span class="substr"> </span></p></div>
+ </div>
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+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266924" name="comment_link_57266924" href="//politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&cid=57266924" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266924)" >Re:</a>
+
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+ <span id="comment_score_57266924" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266924); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~PopeRatzo">PopeRatzo</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~PopeRatzo">( 965947 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266924"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266924"><blockquote><div><p>Paper votes aren't any better, just look at Russia's vote stuffing. Literately. Someone comes up to the booth and stuffs fake/coerced votes into the box.</p></div></blockquote><p>That's right, because Russia doesn't have the same safeguards built into their elections that we have. You don't have election judges from both sides watching every vote from the time it's cast to the time it's counted to the time it's sent for storage. In the US, there have to be two election judges on hand when absentee ballots are opened.</p><p>People can sti<span class="substr"> </span></p></div>
+ </div>
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+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266924">
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+ <div id="comment_top_57267688" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267688" name="comment_link_57267688" href="//politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&cid=57267688" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267688)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267688" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267688); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Ocker3">Ocker3</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Ocker3">( 1232550 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267688"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267688">I'd invite you to visit us in Australia, where we have the Australian Electoral Commission (AEC), a non-partisan (not bi-partisan) body of people who are collectively considered the Platinum Standard of running elections around the world. We actually send people to the USA to train election staff. We don't have party reps in the voting area until the polls close, then the parties can send in scrutineers who check that the paper ballots are being counted as per the regulations (when I did this I actually not</div>
+ </div>
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+<div id="comment_57267702" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267702" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267702" name="comment_link_57267702" href="//politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&cid=57267702" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267702)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267702" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267702); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~PopeRatzo">PopeRatzo</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~PopeRatzo">( 965947 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267702"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267702"><blockquote><div><p>I'd invite you to visit us in Australia,</p></div></blockquote><p>I've spent a fair amount of time in Australia. Yes, I've heard you guys do a good job with elections, but I'm not coming back until you get rid of those spiders that jump up and bite you on the eye. Oh, and drop bears and yowgwai. I don't need that kind of stress, thanks.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267702">
+
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+</div>
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+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266832" name="comment_link_57266832" href="//politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&cid=57266832" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266832)" >Re:</a>
+
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~shellster_dude">shellster_dude</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~shellster_dude">( 1261444 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266832"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266832">Blockchains are obviously a terrible solution to election fraud. The only thing that prevents blockchain tampering is a ton of neutral third party machines checking the transactions (typically miners). We've already seen that this is a non-trivial problem when there is plenty of incentive for random people to fulfill that role (mining of crypto currency). National elections have very little incentive for people to invest thousands in hardware and electricity, and a ton of incentive for nation states like</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266832">
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+<div id="comment_status_57266466" class="commentstatus"></div>
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+ <div id="comment_top_57266466" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266466" name="comment_link_57266466" href="//politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&cid=57266466" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266466)" >Oh the irony</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266466" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266466); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>4</a>, Insightful)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~the_skywise">the_skywise</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~the_skywise">( 189793 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266466">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @06:49PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&cid=57266466">#57266466</a>)
+ <small> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266466"><p><div class="quote"><p>All elections should use human-readable paper ballots by 2020. Such systems are intended to assure voters that their vote was recorded accurately. They also create a lasting record of "voter intent" that can be used for reliable recounts,</p></div><p>Now I agree with this and am happy to move back to paper ballots - But the entire reason we moved away from paper ballots was because of the 2000 elections where Florida used punch cards and political officers kept trying to argue over "partial punches", "dimpled chads" and "dangling chads" where they tried to reassess what the voter's INTENT was.<br>
+And, of course, let's not forget magical disappearing and appearing boxes of ballots.<br>
+Any system can be hacked but the electronic one is harder to track hacking than the good ol' traditional methods with paper ballots.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266466">
+<span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57266466" class="btn link" href="//politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&op=Reply&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266466" onclick="D2.replyTo(57266466); return false;">Reply to This</a> <a href="#" class="comment_share_toggle btn link">Share</a>
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+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267234" name="comment_link_57267234" href="//politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&cid=57267234" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267234)" >Re:</a>
+
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+ <span id="comment_score_57267234" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267234); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>3</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Dare+nMc">Dare nMc</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Dare+nMc">( 468959 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267234"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267234"><p>Their have been academic papers proposing electronic system that would be safe, where you could verify that your vote was counted (IE received at the server.)</p><p>In theory with open software, hardware, and multiple servers (again all open source) we could have a very robust electronic voting system. This would require a large project likely done with universities, and it may even be similar to some bitcoin concepts.</p><p>The technology side is very solvable, getting the project started, past the politics, and accept<span class="substr"> </span></p></div>
+ </div>
+
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+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266470"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266470">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266470" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266482" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266482" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266482" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266482" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266482" name="comment_link_57266482" href="//politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&cid=57266482" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266482)" >Key statement</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266482" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266482); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>, Insightful)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span>Anonymous Coward</span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266482"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266482"><p>They key statement in the finding that most technology solutions fail to solve is this:</p><p>"Such systems are intended to *assure* voters that their vote was recorded accurately."</p><p>In the end, paper ballots may seem inefficient from a processing perspective, but that inefficiency becomes inherently difficult to tamper with and builds in systems for checks and recounts. The argument here is that blockchain is vulnerable before the data is stored in the blockchain, at the UI and the machine level, and blockchain th<span class="substr"> </span></p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266482">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266482"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266482">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266482" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266482"><li id="tree_57267502" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267502" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267502" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267502" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267502" name="comment_link_57267502" href="//politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&cid=57267502" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267502)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267502" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267502); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~presidenteloco">presidenteloco</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~presidenteloco">( 659168 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267502"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267502"><p>Blanket arguments against computer algorithms for secure voting (or secure anything) are illogical, emotional, and flawed.</p><p>People argue to the effect: Because many programs have been found to have a security flaw in either A) the algorithm mathematics and logical assumptions, or in B) the implementation, therefore ALL programs must have some flaw in A) or B) therefore there is no such thing is a secure computer program. That is just bullshit. It's incorrect, unsupported generalization from specific examples.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267502">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267502"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267502">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267502" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57267502"><li id="tree_57267514" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267514" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267514" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267514" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267514" name="comment_link_57267514" href="//politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&cid=57267514" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267514)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267514" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267514); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~presidenteloco">presidenteloco</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~presidenteloco">( 659168 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267514"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267514"><p>Ok, there's a stupid bug in slashdot apparently, not including my less-than sign.<br>There. One bug.<br>What's up with that. Let me try again. Hmm. There was a less-than in there just to the left of this sentence. That's lame on slashdot software's part.<br>So you proved that ALL programs have bugs?<br>Didn't think so.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267514">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267514"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267514">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267514" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li></ul></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266484" class="comment full contain"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266484" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266484" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266484" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266484" name="comment_link_57266484" href="//politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&cid=57266484" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266484)" >Paper ballots are by far the most secure solution</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266484" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266484); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>4</a>, Insightful)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Seven+Spirals">Seven Spirals</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Seven+Spirals">( 4924941 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266484">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @06:56PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&cid=57266484">#57266484</a>)
+ <small> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266484">Gimme a break. Use paper. Computers will be better tools for tabulating and processing the votes after they are cast, but it's tough to beat paper for a recount. Even paper has it's flaws, but the hand waving crypto-bullshit is pathetic "Oh but this counter signature will detect if the previous initialization vector was properly zeroed inside of the S-Box" *rolls eyes*. KISS baby. Things don't get more secure by making them more complex and I can't think of any way to make something more complex than to introduce computers. Computers are great at some things, ideal for some tasks: not for voting. They suck at that.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266484">
+<span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57266484" class="btn link" href="//politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&op=Reply&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266484" onclick="D2.replyTo(57266484); return false;">Reply to This</a> <a href="#" class="comment_share_toggle btn link">Share</a>
+ <div class="comment_share sharethis-0 hide"><span class="au"></span>
+ <a class="janrain t" href="#" data-provider="twitter" data-message="Paper ballots are by far the most secure solution by Seven Spirals @slashdot" data-url="https://politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&cid=57266484" data-title="Paper ballots are by far the most secure solution">twitter</a>
+ <a class="janrain f" href="#" data-provider="facebook" data-message="Paper ballots are by far the most secure solution by Seven Spirals" data-url="https://politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&cid=57266484" data-title="Paper ballots are by far the most secure solution">facebook</a>
+ <a class="janrain l" href="#" data-provider="linkedin" data-message="Paper ballots are by far the most secure solution by Seven Spirals" data-url="https://politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&cid=57266484" data-title="Paper ballots are by far the most secure solution">linkedin</a>
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+ </div>
+ <span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57266484" title="Flag this comment as Inappropriate" class="ui-icon flag fright" href="//politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&op=flag&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266484" onclick="return false;">Flag as Inappropriate</a>
+</div>
+</div>
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+<div id="replyto_57266484"></div>
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+<div id="comment_status_57267652" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267652" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267652"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267652">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267652" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57266484"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266484">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266492" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266492" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266492" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266492"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266492">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266492" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266498" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266498" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266498" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266498" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266498" name="comment_link_57266498" href="//politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&cid=57266498" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266498)" >paper ballots</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266498" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266498); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>1</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span>Anonymous Coward</span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266498"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266498"><p>The only way you can have some measure of accountability while keeping votes anonymous.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266498">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266498"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266498">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266498" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266498"><li id="tree_57267660" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267660" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267660" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267660"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267660">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267660" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57266498"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266498">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266602" class="comment full contain"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266602" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266602" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266602" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266602" name="comment_link_57266602" href="//politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&cid=57266602" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266602)" >Or, for heaven's sake, you can just use paper</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266602" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266602); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>3</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~mark-t">mark-t</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~mark-t">( 151149 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266602"> <<a href="mailto:markt.nerdflat%40com">markt.nerdflat@com</a>>
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @07:27PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&cid=57266602">#57266602</a>)
+ <small><a href="//slashdot.org/~mark-t/journal/" title="Saturday February 25, 2017 @11:01AM" class="user_journal_display">Journal</a> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266602"><p>
+Make a simple mark on a paper ballot indicating your vote, fold it, put it in a box.
+</p><p>
+done
+</p><p>
+Now theoretically you could bribe people who do the counting, but you'd have to bribe a *LOT* of people to make any kind of difference because each individual ballot box with the folded ballots contains but a tiny fraction of the number of votes, and nobody ever counts the ballots from more than one or sometimes two different boxes.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266602">
+<span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57266602" class="btn link" href="//politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&op=Reply&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266602" onclick="D2.replyTo(57266602); return false;">Reply to This</a> <a href="#" class="comment_share_toggle btn link">Share</a>
+ <div class="comment_share sharethis-0 hide"><span class="au"></span>
+ <a class="janrain t" href="#" data-provider="twitter" data-message="Or, for heaven's sake, you can just use paper by mark-t @slashdot" data-url="https://politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&cid=57266602" data-title="Or, for heaven's sake, you can just use paper">twitter</a>
+ <a class="janrain f" href="#" data-provider="facebook" data-message="Or, for heaven's sake, you can just use paper by mark-t" data-url="https://politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&cid=57266602" data-title="Or, for heaven's sake, you can just use paper">facebook</a>
+ <a class="janrain l" href="#" data-provider="linkedin" data-message="Or, for heaven's sake, you can just use paper by mark-t" data-url="https://politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&cid=57266602" data-title="Or, for heaven's sake, you can just use paper">linkedin</a>
+ <a class="g" href="https://plus.google.com/share?url=https://politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620%26cid=57266602" onclick="javascript:window.open(this.href,'', 'menubar=no,toolbar=no,resizable=yes,scrollbars=yes,height=600,width=600');return false;"><img src="//www.gstatic.com/images/icons/gplus-16.png" alt="Share on Google+"/></a>
+ </div>
+ <span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57266602" title="Flag this comment as Inappropriate" class="ui-icon flag fright" href="//politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&op=flag&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266602" onclick="return false;">Flag as Inappropriate</a>
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266602"></div>
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+ <li id="hiddens_57266602" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266774" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266774" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266774" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266774"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266774">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266774" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266790" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266790" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266790" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266790" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266790" name="comment_link_57266790" href="//politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&cid=57266790" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266790)" >the real story</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266790" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266790); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~slashmydots">slashmydots</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~slashmydots">( 2189826 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266790"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266790">Blockchains are perfect, right? WRONG. And also right. They are mathmatically flawless BUT if you outprocess the rest of the network, you can finalize a block with whatever the hell you want in it. You can form a block that says you own all bitcoins, all transactions put them in your wallet, and you're also the queen of England. The reason this "51% attack" doesn't happen it because that amount of processing power doesn't exist. That many ASICs don't exist on Earth. But let's set up a separate blockchain an</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266790">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266790"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266790">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266790" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266790"><li id="tree_57267344" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267344" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267344" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267344" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267344" name="comment_link_57267344" href="//politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&cid=57267344" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267344)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267344" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267344); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Kaenneth">Kaenneth</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Kaenneth">( 82978 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267344"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267344"><p>Even with a 51% attack, the Bitcoin blockchain is filled with digital signatures; noone but your own nodes would accept the blocks, and you would only be 'fooling' yourself.</p><p>Electronic voting could only work if every citizen had their own private, secure, digital signature key. Which can't happen in the US because poor people can't afford them, and a certain party would never give anything for free, while the other would protect the poor.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267344">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267344"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267344">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267344" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57267344"><li id="tree_57267672" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267672" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267672" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267672"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267672">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267672" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57267344"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57267344">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57267006" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267006" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267006" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267006"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267006">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267006" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57267006"><li id="tree_57267322" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267322" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267322" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267322" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267322" name="comment_link_57267322" href="//politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&cid=57267322" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267322)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267322" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267322); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~jwymanm">jwymanm</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~jwymanm">( 627857 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267322"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267322">This was the dumbest comment in the article. Obviously software methods exist to verify after the fact that what you saved is what you expected.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267322">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267322"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267322">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267322" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li></ul></li><li id="tree_57267022" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267022" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267022" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267022" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267022" name="comment_link_57267022" href="//politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&cid=57267022" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267022)" >It's not how the vote was recorded...</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267022" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267022); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~LynnwoodRooster">LynnwoodRooster</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~LynnwoodRooster">( 966895 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267022"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267022"><p><div class="quote"><p>The report goes on to say that "Blockchains do not provide the anonymity often ascribed to them." It continues: "In the particular context of elections, voters need to be authorized as eligible to vote and as not having cast more than one ballot in the particular election.</p></div><p>It's who casts the vote. Before we even worry about Blockchain, we need to ensure people casting the ballots are legally eligible to vote. Guaranteeing a vote was cast is no more important than guaranteeing who cast the vote was eligible to actually cast that vote.</p></div>
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+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57267022"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57267022">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57267232" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267232" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267232" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267232" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267232" name="comment_link_57267232" href="//politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580620&cid=57267232" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267232)" >Paper ballots</a>
+
+
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~burtosis">burtosis</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~burtosis">( 1124179 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267232"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267232">Let me start out saying 100% electronic voting is going to be a disaster, triply so when done remotely and not at a secure voting machine. But what most people don't realize is we currently use unencrypted images of paper ballots in many states as backups. These are very insecure. Why not use paper ballots for the primary method, blockchain for the electronic backups? This ultimately seems far more secure than what we are doing now. We also could use open source machines and have audits at each polling</div>
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+ $('#slashboxes').css('top',$(this).outerHeight() || 0).css('position','fixed').css('right',13);
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+ $('#slashboxes').css('top', 0).css('position','fixed').css('right',13);
+ }
+ }else{
+ $(this).removeClass(cls);
+ $(this).addClass(toggleCls);
+ $('#slashboxes').removeAttr('style');
+ }
+ });
+ if($('.adwrap-viewed-banner').length > 0){
+ topBannerViewed = true;
+ $('.adwrap-viewed-banner').removeClass('adwrap-unviewed').removeClass('adwrap-sticky').addClass('adwrap');
+ }
+ if($('.adwrap-viewed-railad').length > 0){
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+ $('#slashboxes').removeAttr('style');
+ }
+ });
+}
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+
+<!-- Piwik -->
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+function initPiwikAndNels() {
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+ url += '&nel_id='+nelId;
+ }
+ $.ajax({
+ url: url,
+ success: function(html){
+ $('#firehoselist article').eq(1).after(html);
+ }
+ });
+ }
+ //announcement NEL
+ if(document.getElementById('announcementText')){
+ $('#announcementText').hide();
+ var hlUrl = '/ajax.pl?op=hl_nel';
+ if(nelId){
+ hlUrl += '&nel_id='+nelId;
+ }
+ $.ajax({
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+ $('#announcementText').show();
+ return;
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+ },
+ error: function () {
+ $('#announcementText').show();
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+}
+bizx.cmp.ifConsent('publisher', ['storage', 'measurement'], initPiwikAndNels);
+</script>
+
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+}
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+<noscript>
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+<!-- Datonics -->
+<script async type="text/javascript" src="//ads.pro-market.net/ads/scripts/site-143573.js"></script>
+ <script id="after-content" type="text/javascript">
+(function( $, fn, console ){
+ $ && fn && $(function(){ fn($, console); });
+})(window.jQuery, window.pageload_done, window.console);
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+ <script type='text/javascript'>
+ if(!document.location.href.match(/source=autorefresh/)) {
+ document.write('<img src="//slashdot.org/images/js.gif?661">');
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+<noscript>
+ <img src="//slashdot.org/images/njs.gif?719">
+</noscript>
+ <div class="busy genericspinner hide"><span>Working...</span></div>
+ <script>
+ if(typeof(Storage)!=="undefined"){
+ window.scrollTo(0,sessionStorage.scrollPos);
+ $(window).scroll(function () {
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+ sessionStorage.scrollPos = $(window).scrollTop();
+ });
+ }
+ $(function(){
+ $('a').click(function(){
+ delete sessionStorage.scrollPos;
+ })
+ });
+ // window.onbeforeunload = function () {
+ // console.log('bakc button clicked');
+ // delete sessionStorage.scrollPos;
+ // }
+ window.onpopstate=function() {
+ delete sessionStorage.scrollPos;
+ }
+ </script>
+
+
+
+ <!-- 1x1 story page -->
+ <div id='div-gpt-ad-1x1'><script type='text/javascript'>
+googletag.cmd.push(function(){
+googletag.display('div-gpt-ad-1x1');});</script></div>
+
+
+ <script type="text/javascript">
+ if (!window.is_euro_union) {
+ window._taboola = window._taboola || [];
+ _taboola.push({flush: true});
+ }
+ </script>
+
+ </body>
+ </html>
+
+
+ <!-- footer type=current end -->
\ No newline at end of file
--- /dev/null
+<!-- html-header type=current begin -->
+
+ <!DOCTYPE html>
+
+ <html lang="en">
+ <head>
+ <!-- Render IE9 -->
+ <meta http-equiv="X-UA-Compatible" content="IE=edge,chrome=1">
+
+
+
+<script>window.is_euro_union = 1;</script>
+<script src="https://a.fsdn.com/con/js/sftheme/vendor/promise.polyfill.min.js"></script>
+<script src="https://a.fsdn.com/con/js/sftheme/cmp.js"></script>
+<script src="https://slashdot.org/country.js"></script>
+<script type='text/javascript'>
+if (window.is_euro_union) {
+ bizx.cmp.init({
+ // to test: 'Display UI': 'always',
+ 'Publisher Name': 'Slashdot',
+ 'Publisher Logo': 'https://a.fsdn.com/sd/sdlogo.svg',
+ 'Consent Scope': 'global group',
+ 'Consent Scope Group URL': 'https://slashdot.org/gdpr-cookies.pl',
+ });
+}
+</script>
+<link rel="stylesheet" href="//a.fsdn.com/con/css/sftheme/sandiego/cmp.css" type="text/css">
+<style type="text/css">
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+ background-color: #016765;
+}
+</style>
+<script>
+if (!window.is_euro_union) {
+(function (s,o,n,a,r,i,z,e) {s['StackSonarObject']=r;s[r]=s[r]||function(){
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+ z=o.getElementsByTagName(n)[0];i.async=1;i.src=a;z.parentNode.insertBefore(i,z)
+ })(window,document,'script','https://www.stack-sonar.com/ping.js','stackSonar');
+ stackSonar('stack-connect', '66');
+}
+</script>
+
+ <script id="before-content" type="text/javascript">
+(function () {
+ if (typeof window.sdmedia !== 'object') {
+ window.sdmedia = {};
+ }
+ if (typeof window.sdmedia.site !== 'object') {
+ window.sdmedia.site = {};
+ }
+
+ var site = window.sdmedia.site;
+ site.rootdir = "//slashdot.org";
+}());
+
+var pageload = {
+ pagemark: '166422024521541787',
+ before_content: (new Date).getTime()
+};
+function pageload_done( $, console, maybe ){
+ pageload.after_readycode = (new Date).getTime();
+ pageload.content_ready_time = pageload.content_ready - pageload.before_content;
+ pageload.script_ready_time = pageload.after_readycode - pageload.content_ready;
+ pageload.ready_time = pageload.after_readycode - pageload.before_content;
+ // Only report 1% of cases.
+ maybe || (Math.random()>0.01) || $.ajax({ data: {
+ op: 'page_profile',
+ pagemark: pageload.pagemark,
+ dom: pageload.content_ready_time,
+ js: pageload.script_ready_time
+ } });
+}
+</script>
+ <meta http-equiv="X-UA-Compatible" content="IE=edge,chrome=1">
+
+ <title>Study Finds Probiotics 'Not As Beneficial For Gut Health As Previously Thought' - Slashdot</title>
+ <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
+
+ <meta name="description" content="An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Guardian: The gut microbiome is the sum total of all the micro-organisms living in a person's gut, and has been shown to play a huge role in human health. New research has found probiotics -- usually taken as supplements or in foods such as yoghurt, kimch...">
+
+ <meta name="twitter:card" content="summary">
+ <meta name="twitter:site" content="@slashdot">
+ <meta name="twitter:domain" content="science.slashdot.org">
+ <meta property="og:url" content="https://science.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2153223/study-finds-probiotics-not-as-beneficial-for-gut-health-as-previously-thought?utm_source=feedly1.0mainlinkanon&utm_medium=feed">
+
+ <meta property="og:title" content="Study Finds Probiotics 'Not As Beneficial For Gut Health As Previously Thought' - Slashdot">
+ <meta property="og:description" content="An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Guardian: The gut microbiome is the sum total of all the micro-organisms living in a person's gut, and has been shown to play a huge role in human health. New research has found probiotics -- usually taken as supplements or in foods such as yoghurt, kimch...">
+
+
+
+ <meta property="og:image" content="https://a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/medicine_64.png?refresh=now">
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+ <meta property="fb:admins" content="100000696822412">
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+
+ <meta name="viewport" content="width=1000, user-scalable=yes, minimum-scale=0, maximum-scale=10.0" />
+ <meta name="apple-mobile-web-app-capable" content="yes">
+ <meta name="apple-mobile-web-app-status-bar-style" content="black">
+
+ <link rel="canonical" href="https://science.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2153223/study-finds-probiotics-not-as-beneficial-for-gut-health-as-previously-thought">
+
+ <link rel="alternate" media="only screen and (max-width: 640px)" href="http://m.slashdot.org/story/345554" >
+
+
+ <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" media="screen, projection" href="//a.fsdn.com/sd/classic.ssl.css?8f5016a67a2f2048" >
+ <!--[if IE 8]><link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" media="screen, projection" href="//a.fsdn.com/sd/ie8-classic.ssl.css?8f5016a67a2f2048" ><![endif]-->
+ <!--[if IE 7]><link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" media="screen, projection" href="//a.fsdn.com/sd/ie7-classic.ssl.css?8f5016a67a2f2048" ><![endif]-->
+
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+
+
+ <!-- -->
+
+
+
+
+
+ <!-- SMACKS: NEW CSS -->
+ <link rel="stylesheet" href="//a.fsdn.com/sd/css/app.css?8f5016a67a2f2048">
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+<script type='text/javascript'>
+ /*global performance */
+ var googletag = window.googletag || {};
+ googletag.cmd = googletag.cmd || [];
+
+ window.Ads_disallowPersonalization = 1;
+ bizx.cmp.ifConsent('all', 'all', function(){
+ window.Ads_disallowPersonalization = 0;
+ }, function(){
+ window.Ads_disallowPersonalization = 1;
+ }, function () {
+ window.bizxPrebid.Ads.initPrebid(window.bizxPrebid.adUnits);
+ });
+</script>
+
+<!-- prep GPT ads -->
+<script type='text/javascript'>
+(function() {
+ function page_type (loc) {
+ /*
+ only four page types:
+ - Story
+ - Poll
+ - Homepage (/ only)
+ - Other (but AdOps wants 'Homepage' again)
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+ var just_the_root = /^\/?$/.test(path);
+ var story_or_poll = /^\/(story(?=\/)|submission(?=\/)|poll(?=\/|Booth|s\b))/i.exec(path);
+
+ var page_type = just_the_root ? 'homepage'
+ : story_or_poll ? story_or_poll[1]
+ : 'other'
+
+ // exceptions
+ if (page_type.toLowerCase() === 'submission')
+ page_type = 'story'; // submissions are like stories, right?
+ else if (page_type.toLowerCase() === 'other')
+ page_type = 'homepage'; // this one might move out of here
+
+ return page_type;
+ }
+ function page_section (loc) {
+ //var greek = ['alpha', 'beta', 'gamma', 'delta'].join('|');
+ //var hostwise = '^([a-z]+)(?:-(?:'+greek+'))?\\.(?:slashdot\\.org|\\.xb\\.sf\\.net)$';
+ var pathwise = '^/(?:(recent|popular|blog)|stories/([^/]+))';
+ var rootwise = '^\/?$';
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+ var pathwisely = new RegExp(pathwise,'i').exec(loc.pathname);
+ var rootwisely = new RegExp(rootwise,'i').exec(loc.pathname);
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+ ;
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+ return section.replace(/[^_a-z]/ig, '');
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+ function single_size (size) {
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+ sizes.push(single_size(sz[size]));
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+ } else {
+ return single_size(sz);
+ }
+ }
+
+ function unique_tpc_array(array1,array2) {
+ var j = array1.concat(array2);
+ j.forEach(function (v,i,a) {
+ a[i] = v.replace(/[^_a-z]/ig, '');
+ });
+ return j.filter(function (v,i,a) {
+ return v != '' && a.indexOf(v) === i;
+ });
+ }
+
+ /* LEGEND:
+ - 'sz' = "size"
+ - 'npt' = "no page type" in ad unit name
+ */
+ var tags = {
+ '728x90_A': { 'sz': [[728, 90], [970, 90], [970, 250], [980, 66]] },
+ '728x90_B': { 'sz': [728, 90] },
+ '728x90_C': { 'sz': [728, 90], 'skip': { 'homepage': 1 } },
+ 'HubIcon_200x90_A': { 'sz': [[200, 90], [220, 90]]},
+ 'PowerSwitch_980x66_A': { 'sz': [980, 66], 'skip': { 'homepage': 1 } },
+ 'PollPeel': { 'sz': [200, 90], 'skip': { 'homepage': 1 } },
+ //'VideoWidget_300x250': { 'sz': [300, 250], 'npt': 1 },
+ '300x250_A': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600], [300, 1050]] },
+ '300x250_B': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]] },
+ '300x250_C': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]] },
+ '300x250_D': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]] },
+ 'Pulse_300x600_A': { 'sz': [300, 600] },
+ //'Polls_Detail_300x250_A': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]], 'npt': 1 },
+ //'Poll_300x250_A': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]], 'npt': 1 },
+ //'SD_Story_1x1': { 'sz': [1, 1] },
+ '1x1': { 'sz': [1, 1] }
+ };
+
+ //var network_path = '/41014381/Slashdot/';
+ var network_path = '/41014381/Slashdot/';
+ var tag_name_prefix = 'SD';
+ var tag_name_linkage = '_';
+ var tag_name_pagetype = page_type(location);
+ var tag_topic = page_section(location);
+ if(tag_name_pagetype == 'poll'){
+ tag_name_pagetype = 'Poll';
+ }
+ var before_tag_pagetyped = network_path
+ + tag_name_prefix
+ + tag_name_linkage
+ + tag_name_pagetype
+ + tag_name_linkage
+ ;
+ var before_tag_pagetypeless = network_path
+ + tag_name_prefix
+ + tag_name_linkage
+ /* + tag_name_pagetype */
+ /* + tag_name_linkage */
+ ;
+
+
+ googletag.cmd.push(function() {
+
+ function remove_sticky_top() {
+ setTimeout(function(){
+ $('#div-gpt-ad-728x90_a').parent('div').addClass('adwrap-viewed-banner');
+ $('#div-gpt-ad-728x90_a').addClass('viewableImpression');
+ }, 1000);
+ }
+ function remove_sticky_railad() {
+ setTimeout(function(){
+ $('#slashboxes .adwrap-unviewed').addClass('adwrap-viewed-railad');
+ $('.railad').addClass('viewableImpression');
+ }, 1000);
+ }
+ function viewable_imp (slot) {
+ for(var i in slot) {
+ if(typeof slot[i] !== 'string') continue;
+ switch(slot[i]){
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_728x90_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_story_728x90_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_Poll_728x90_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_728x90_Ref_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_story_728x90_Ref_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_Poll_728x90_Ref_A":
+ remove_sticky_top();
+ break;
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_300x250_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_story_300x250_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_Poll_300x250_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_300x250_Ref_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_story_300x250_Ref_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_Poll_300x250_Ref_A":
+ remove_sticky_railad();
+ break;
+ }
+ //if(slot[i] === "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_728x90_A") remove_sticky_top();
+ //if(slot[i] === "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_300x250_A") remove_sticky_railad();
+ }
+ }
+ function define_me_a_slot (tag) {
+ if (tags[tag].skip && tags[tag].skip[tag_name_pagetype])
+ return;
+ var sandbox_regex = /\.xb\.sf\.net$/i;
+ var full_name = tags[tag].npt // "no page type"
+ ? before_tag_pagetypeless + tag
+ : before_tag_pagetyped + tag
+ ;
+ var div_id = 'div-gpt-ad-' + tag.toLowerCase();
+
+ var service;
+ // extend jQuery and get URL query params
+ jQuery.extend({
+ getQueryParameters : function(str) {
+ return (str || document.location.search).replace(/(^\?)/,'').split("&").map(function(n){
+ return n = n.split("="),this[n[0]] = n[1],this
+ }.bind({}))[0];
+ }
+ });
+
+ var queryParams = $.getQueryParameters();
+
+ if( queryParams.source === 'autorefresh' ) {
+ full_name = full_name.replace(/(\d+x\d+)/,'$1_Ref');
+ //console.log('TAG NAME: ', full_name);
+ }
+
+ service = googletag.defineSlot(
+ full_name
+ , tags[tag].sz
+ , div_id
+ ).addService(googletag.pubads());
+
+ service.setTargeting('sz', tags[tag].sz);
+
+
+ var frontend_tpc = tag_topic.split(",");
+ var backend_tpc = [ "medicine", "science", "health", "bacteria", "probiotics" ];
+
+ var tpc_final = unique_tpc_array(frontend_tpc, backend_tpc);
+ service.setTargeting('tpc', tpc_final);
+ if (location.hostname.match(sandbox_regex)) {
+ service.setTargeting('test', 'adops');
+ }
+
+ }
+
+ for (tag in tags) {
+ define_me_a_slot(tag, false);
+ }
+ googletag.pubads().addEventListener('impressionViewable', function(event) {
+ viewable_imp(event.slot);
+ });
+
+ googletag.pubads().setTargeting('requestSource', 'GPT');
+ googletag.pubads().setRequestNonPersonalizedAds(window.Ads_disallowPersonalization);
+ googletag.pubads().enableAsyncRendering();
+
+
+ googletag.pubads().collapseEmptyDivs();
+ window.bizxPrebid.SAFEFRAMES = true;
+ bizxPrebid.Ads.pushToGoogle();
+ googletag.enableServices();
+ });
+})();
+</script>
+
+
+
+<!-- CrossPixel -->
+<script type="text/javascript"> try{(function(){ var cb = new Date().getTime(); var s = document.createElement("script"); s.defer = true; s.src = "//tag.crsspxl.com/s1.js?d=2397&cb="+cb; var s0 = document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0]; s0.parentNode.insertBefore(s, s0); })();}catch(e){} </script>
+
+<!-- AdBlock Check -->
+<script>
+var isAdBlockActive = true;
+</script>
+<script async src="//a.fsdn.com/sd/js/scripts/ad.js?8f5016a67a2f2048"></script>
+
+</head>
+<body class="anon firehose ">
+
+
+ <script src="//a.fsdn.com/sd/all-minified.js?8f5016a67a2f2048" type="text/javascript"></script>
+
+
+ <script type="text/javascript">
+(function(){
+var regexp=/\s*(?:\d+|many)\s+more\s*/i;
+
+
+ var auto_more_count = 1;
+
+ function auto_more(){
+ var $more_link = $('#more-experiment a');
+ $more_link.each(function(){
+ var $lastitem = $('#firehoselist>article.fhitem:visible:last');
+ if ( Bounds.intersect(window, $lastitem) ) {
+
+
+ !--auto_more_count && (auto_more=undefined);
+ // don't allow a call till the next paginate gets built and |more_possible|
+ $(document).unbind('scroll', call_auto_more);
+ }
+ });
+ };
+
+ function call_auto_more(){ auto_more && auto_more(); }
+
+
+$('#more-experiment a').
+ live('more-possible', function( event ){
+ var $more_link=$(this);
+ if ( regexp.test($more_link.text()) ) {
+
+ $(document).bind('scroll', call_auto_more);
+ } else {
+ $(document).unbind('scroll', call_auto_more);
+
+ }
+ });
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+ <link rel="top" title="News for nerds, stuff that matters" href="//slashdot.org/" >
+<link rel="search" title="Search Slashdot" href="//science.slashdot.org/search.pl">
+<link rel="alternate" title="Slashdot RSS" href="http://rss.slashdot.org/Slashdot/slashdotScience" type="application/rss+xml">
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+ <div class="nav-wrap">
+ <nav class="nav-primary" role="navigation" aria-label="Global Navigation">
+ <h1 class="logo">
+ <a href="//slashdot.org"><span>Slashdot</span></a>
+</h1>
+
+<ul class="nav-site">
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org"><i class="icon-book" title="Stories"></i><span>Stories</span></a></li>
+ <li>
+ <ul class="filter-firehose">
+ <li class="nav-label">Firehose <i class="icon-angle-right"></i></li>
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org/recent">All</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org/popular">Popular</a></li>
+ </ul>
+ </li>
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org/polls"><i class="icon-chart-bar" title="Polls"></i><span>Polls</span></a></li>
+
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+ <li><a href="//ask.slashdot.org"><i class="icon-question-circle"></i><span>Ask</span></a></li>
+
+ <li><a href="//events.slashdot.org"><i class="icon-calendar"></i><span>Events</span></a></li>
+ -->
+ <li><a href="http://deals.slashdot.org/?utm_source=slashdot&utm_medium=navbar&utm_campaign=dealshp_1" target="_blank"><i class="sd-mini" title="Deals"></i> <span>Deals</span></a></li>
+</ul>
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+ </nav>
+ <nav class="nav-user" role="navigation" aria-label="user access and account controls">
+ <form id="search" class="form-inline nav-search-form" method="get" action="//slashdot.org/index2.pl">
+<!-- //science.slashdot.org/index2.pl" -->
+ <div class="form-group">
+ <label class="sr-only" for="sitesearch">Search Slashdot</label>
+ <div class="input-group">
+ <input type="text" id="" class="" name="fhfilter" value="" placeholder="Search">
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <button type="submit" class="btn icon-search"></button>
+</form>
+<ul class="user-access">
+
+
+ <li >
+ <a href="//slashdot.org/my/login" onclick="show_login_box(); return false;"><i class="icon-login"></i><span> Login</span></a>
+
+ </li>
+
+
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+ <li class="nav-label">or</li>
+
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+ <li >
+ <a href="//slashdot.org/my/newuser" ><i class="icon-user-add"></i><span> Sign up</span></a>
+
+ </li>
+
+
+</ul>
+ </nav>
+ </div>
+ <div class="nav-secondary-wrap">
+ <nav class="nav-secondary" role="secondary-navigation">
+ <ul>
+ <li class="nav-label">Topics: </li>
+ <li><a href="//devices.slashdot.org">Devices</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//build.slashdot.org">Build</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//entertainment.slashdot.org">Entertainment</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//technology.slashdot.org">Technology</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org/?fhfilter=opensource">Open Source</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//science.slashdot.org">Science</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//yro.slashdot.org">YRO</a></li>
+ <!-- <li><a href="//slashdot.org/topics.pl">more...</a></li> -->
+ </ul>
+</nav>
+<nav class="nav-social" role="social navigation">
+ <ul>
+ <li class="nav-label">Follow us:</li>
+ <li><a href="http://rss.slashdot.org/Slashdot/slashdotMain" target="_blank"><i class="icon-rss-squared"></i><span class="sr-only">RSS</span></a></li>
+ <li><a href="http://www.facebook.com/slashdot" target="_blank"><i class="icon-facebook-squared"></i><span class="sr-only">Facebook</span></a></li>
+ <li><a href="https://plus.google.com/112601993642376762846/" target="_blank"><i class="icon-gplus-squared"></i><span class="sr-only">Google+</span></a></li>
+ <li><a href="http://twitter.com/slashdot" target="_blank"><i class="icon-twitter-squared"></i><span class="sr-only">Twitter</span></a></li>
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org/newsletter" target="_blank"><i class="icon-mail-squared"></i><span class="sr-only">Newsletter</span></a></li>
+ </ul>
+</nav>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+
+ <section>
+
+ <div class="message-bar" id="firehose-message-tray">
+ <span class="icon-quote-left"></span>
+ <p>
+
+
+ Want to read Slashdot from your mobile device? Point it at <a href="http://m.slashdot.org">m.slashdot.org</a> and keep reading!
+
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+ <input type="password" name="upasswd" placeholder="6-1024 characters long">
+ </p>
+ <label class="checkbox"><input type="checkbox" name="login_temp" value="yes"> Public Terminal</label>
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+ <input type="submit" name="userlogin" value="Log In" class="fno"> <a href="//slashdot.org/my/mailpassword" class="btn link" onclick="getModalPrefs('sendPasswdModal', 'Retrieve Password', 1); return false;">Forgot your password?</a>
+</fieldset></form>
+
+<div id="janrainEngageEmbed"></div>
+<div class="actions">
+ <a class="ico close" onclick="hide_login_slider();" href=""><span>Close</span></a>
+</div>
+</div>
+
+
+ <div class="banner-wrapper">
+ <div class="adwrap adwrap-unviewed banner-contain">
+
+ <div id='div-gpt-ad-728x90_a'><script type='text/javascript'>
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+googletag.cmd.push(function(){
+googletag.display('div-gpt-ad-hubicon_200x90_a');});</script></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+
+ <a name="main-articles"></a>
+
+ <!-- header type=current end --><!-- body begin -->
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
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+menu, menu * {
+ text-decoration:none;
+}
+
+menu[type=context] {
+ display:none;
+ position:absolute;
+ z-index:10000;
+}
+
+menu[type=context]:not(.brief) {
+ background-color:#dfdfdf;
+ margin:0;
+ padding:2px 0.5em;
+ border-style:solid;
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+ border-color:#eeeeee #aaaaaa #aaaaaa #eeeeee;
+ -moz-border-radius-topright:.7em;
+ -webkit-border-top-right-radius: 0.7em 0.7em;
+}
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+}
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+span.briefmenu a.tag:not(.datatype) {
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+}
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+}
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+article aside .share .addthis_toolbox { display:block; width:60px; float:left; }
+article aside.view_mode .share { min-width:120px; padding-top:.5em; }
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+color:#fff;
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+font-size:.8em;
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+
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+ color:#ccc;
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+ padding:0 2px;
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+ -webkit-border-radius:.6em 0 0 .6em;
+ -o-border-radius:.6em 0 0 .6em;
+ border-radius:.6em 0 0 .6em;
+ color:#fff !important;
+ background:transparent !important;
+}
+
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+ background:rgb(153,153,153) !important;
+ background:-moz-linear-gradient(100% 100% 90deg, rgb(102,102,102), rgb(153,153,153) 70%) repeat scroll 0 0 rgb(102,102,102) !important;
+ background-image: -webkit-gradient(linear, 0% 0%, 0% 100%, from(rgb(153,153,153)), to(rgb(102,102,102))) !important;
+}
+
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+
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+ <a class="tag">fresh</a><a class="tag">funny</a><a class="tag">insightful</a><a class="tag">interesting</a><a class="tag">maybe</a>
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+ <a class="tag">offtopic</a><a class="tag">flamebait</a><a class="tag">troll</a><a class="tag">redundant</a><a class="tag">overrated</a>
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+<menu id="comment-nod-reasons" style="display:none">
+ <a class="tag">insightful</a><a class="tag">interesting</a><a class="tag">informative</a><a class="tag">funny</a><a class="tag">underrated</a>
+</menu>
+
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+ <a class="tag">descriptive</a>
+</menu>
+<menu id="feedback-menu" class="tag-menu-admin" type="context">
+ <a class="tag">typo</a><a class="tag">dupe</a><a class="tag">error</a>
+</menu>
+<menu id="tag-menu" class="tag-menu-admin none" type="context">
+
+<!-- <a data-op="!" class="nix">!<span class="var-tag hide"></span></a>-->
+
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+
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+
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+}
+
+function trigger_menu( e, selector, $menu, menu_content ){
+ var $target=$(original_target(e, selector)), in_use=$target.is('.trigger');
+ if ( $CURRENT_MENU ) {
+ $CURRENT_MENU.menu('cancel', e);
+ $CURRENT_MENU = null;
+ }
+
+ if ( !in_use ) {
+ menu_content && $menu.stop(true, true).hide().html(menu_content);
+ ($CURRENT_MENU=$menu).menu('context', e);
+ }
+ return !in_use;
+}
+
+function open_menu( trigger, $menu ){
+ var $trigger=$(trigger), $fhitem=$trigger.closest('.fhitem');
+ $fhitem.length && user_intent('interest', $fhitem[0]);
+
+ $menu.appendTo(document.body).css({ opacity:0 }).show();
+
+ var right = $fhitem.offset().left + $fhitem.width(),
+ global = $trigger.offset(),
+ local = $menu.offsetParent().offset();
+
+ // Ugly IE position hack required:
+ $.browser.msie && IE7.test($.browser.version) && (local.top = 0);
+
+ // pin the menu (horizontally) on-screen
+ global.left = Math.min(global.left, right-$menu.width());
+
+ $trigger.addClass('trigger');
+ $menu.css({
+ position: 'absolute',
+ top: global.top - local.top + $trigger.height(),
+ left: global.left - local.left,
+ opacity: 1
+ });
+}
+
+function close_menu( trigger, $menu ){
+ $menu.hide();
+ $(trigger).removeClass('trigger');
+ ($CURRENT_MENU===$menu) && ($CURRENT_MENU=false);
+}
+
+/* T2 tag context-menu */
+var $TAG_MENU=$('#tag-menu'), NOTNOT=/^!!/;
+
+
+ var user_is_admin = 0;
+
+
+
+$('a[rel=tag]').live('mousedown',function(ea){
+ window.open(this.href);
+ return false;
+})
+
+$('.tag-bar .disagree').live('mousedown',function(ee){
+ var fhitem = $(original_target(ee)).closest('.fhitem')[0],
+ command = ('!' + $(original_target(ee)).attr("data-tag")).replace(NOTNOT, '');
+ try { Tags.submit(fhitem, command); } catch ( err ) { }
+ return false;
+})
+
+
+
+$('a[rel=tag]').
+ live('mousedown', function( e ){
+
+ return true;
+
+
+ }).
+ live('click', function( e ){
+ if ( !logged_in ) {
+ var target = original_target(e),
+ tag = $(target).text();
+ addfhfilter(tag);
+ }
+ e.preventDefault();
+ return false;
+ });
+
+$TAG_MENU.menu({
+ cssNamespace: 'slash',
+ liveTriggers: true,
+ clickDuration: 300,
+
+ start: function( e, ui ){
+ var $tag = $(ui.trigger),
+ tag = get_tag_name($tag),
+ context = firehose_settings && firehose_settings.viewtitle;
+
+ // Insert the tagname into the menu items where needed.
+ $TAG_MENU.find('span.var-tag').text(tag);
+ $TAG_MENU.find('a.nix').attr('title','not ' + tag);
+
+
+ // non-admins may only delete their own tags
+ $TAG_MENU.find('a:[data-op="-"]').toggle($tag.is('.my'));
+
+
+ // *tagname* in *viewtitle*
+ $TAG_MENU.find('a:[data-op="="]').toggle(!!context);
+ context && $TAG_MENU.find('span.var-view').text(context);
+
+ open_menu($tag, $TAG_MENU);
+ },
+
+ select: function( e, ui ){
+ var $tag = $(ui.trigger),
+ tag = get_tag_name($tag),
+ op = $(ui.select).attr('data-op'),
+ fhitem,
+ command;
+
+ // Global for positioning other things.
+ $related_trigger = $tag;
+
+ switch ( op ) {
+ case '=':
+ addfhfilter(tag);
+ break;
+
+ default:
+ fhitem = $tag.closest('.fhitem')[0];
+ command = (op + tag).replace(NOTNOT, '');
+ try { Tags.submit(fhitem, command); } catch ( err ) { }
+ break;
+ }
+ },
+
+ stop: function( e, ui ){ close_menu(ui.trigger, $TAG_MENU); }
+});
+
+
+
+
+/* T2 feedback context-menu */
+
+
+
+/* T2 datatype context-menu (admin-only) */
+
+
+
+
+
+
+});
+</script>
+
+
+
+<!-- SMACKS: BEGIN STORY CONTENT -->
+<div class="container">
+ <!--SMACKS: BEGING CENTER COLUMN -->
+ <div class="main-wrap has-rail-right">
+ <div class="main-content">
+ <div class="grid_24 a2 ">
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+ <div id="firehose" class="nothumbs">
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+ <time id="fhtime-102641010" datetime="on Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM">on Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM</time>
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+ An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Guardian: <i>The gut microbiome is the sum total of all the micro-organisms living in a person's gut, and has been shown to play a huge role in human health. New research has found probiotics -- usually taken as supplements or in foods such as yoghurt, kimchi or kefir -- <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/sep/06/probiotics-not-as-beneficial-for-gut-health-as-previously-thought">can hinder a patient's gut microbiome from returning to normal after a course of antibiotics</a>, and that different people respond to probiotics in dramatically different ways. In the <a href="https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(18)31102-4">first of two papers</a> published in the journal Cell, researchers performed endoscopies and colonoscopies to sample and study the gut microbiomes of people who took antibiotics before and after probiotic consumption. Another group were given samples of their own gut microbiomes collected before consuming antibiotics. The researchers found the microbiomes of those who had taken the probiotics had suffered a "very severe disturbance." "Once the probiotics had colonized the gut, they completely inhibited the return of the indigenous microbiome which was disrupted during antibiotic treatment," said Eran Elinav, an immunologist at the Weizmann Institute of Science in Israel and lead author on the studies.
+<br> <br>
+The scientists also compared the gut microbiomes of the gut intestinal tract of 25 volunteers with that of their stools. They found that stool bacteria only partially correlated with the microbiomes functioning inside their bodies. "So the fact that we all almost exclusively rely on stool in our microbiome research may not be a reliable way of studying gut microbiome health," said Elinav. In the <a href="https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(18)31108-5">second paper</a>, the researchers examined the colonization and impact of probiotics on 15 people by sampling within their gastrointestinal tract. They divided the individuals into two groups: one were given a preparation made of 11 strains of very commonly used probiotics and the other were given a placebo. Of those who were given probiotics, he said, "We could group the individuals into two distinct groups: one which resisted the colonisation of the probiotics, and one in which the probiotics colonized the gut and modified the composition of the gut microbiome and the genes of the host individual."</i><br>
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+ <a href="" data-filter-url="//science.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2153223/study-finds-probiotics-not-as-beneficial-for-gut-health-as-previously-thought/interesting-comments#comments">Interesting</a>
+ </li>
+
+ <li >
+ <a href="" data-filter-url="//science.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2153223/study-finds-probiotics-not-as-beneficial-for-gut-health-as-previously-thought/funny-comments#comments">Funny</a>
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+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267578" name="comment_link_57267578" href="//science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580646&cid=57267578" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267578)" >Re:</a>
+
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~jblues">jblues</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~jblues">( 1703158 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267578"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267578"><p>Bacteria are are naturally present in raw fruit and vegetables and naturally fermented foods, including naturally fermented bread. Most cold climate cultures relied on fermented vegetables to get them through the winter. Salt fermentation of raw vegetables allows the lactobacillus bacterias to proliferate. Almost all of the sugars are consumed, however most of the rest of nutritional profile is intact, including the vitamin C. In some cases the nutritional profile is enhanced. This is why viking sailors di<span class="substr"> </span></p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267578">
+
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+<div id="replyto_57267578"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267578">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267578" class="hide"></li>
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+</li></ul></li><li id="tree_57267464" class="comment full contain"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267464" class="commentstatus"></div>
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+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267464" name="comment_link_57267464" href="//science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580646&cid=57267464" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267464)" >Bitter sweet</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267464" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267464); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>3</a>, Informative)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span>Anonymous Coward</span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267464">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:55PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580646&cid=57267464">#57267464</a>)
+ <small> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267464"><p>Been saying this for years. I get some people have IBS but the reliance on things like yogurt is crazy.</p><p>Fun little tip for a stomach ache - saliva. Let it build in your mouth (without water) and swallow in one gulp. Not only does it give your mouth a natural way to break down any bateria / sugar, but helps to calm your gut. Mouthwash is the nuclear option.</p><p>So much of how your body functions comes down to diet. It's interesting they do not go into what foods were consumed.</p></div>
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+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267626" name="comment_link_57267626" href="//science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580646&cid=57267626" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267626)" >Re:</a>
+
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~omnichad">omnichad</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~omnichad">( 1198475 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267626"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267626"><p>The "S" stands for syndrome, which identifies it as a collection of symptoms and not a disease. It's a diagnosis only in that there are good ways to treat the symptoms even when you don't understand the root cause fully.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267626">
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+<div id="comment_status_57267480" class="commentstatus"></div>
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+
+<div id="replyto_57267480"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267480">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267480" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267488" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267488" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267488" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267488" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267488" name="comment_link_57267488" href="//science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580646&cid=57267488" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267488)" >I guess it's back to</a>
+
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~bobstreo">bobstreo</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~bobstreo">( 1320787 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267488"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267488"><p>shit transplants for the health crazed.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/s</p><p>Seriously, is anything really good or really bad for you in moderation?</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267488">
+
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+<div id="comment_status_57267532" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267532" class="cw">
+</div>
+
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+
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+ <li id="hiddens_57267532" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57267488"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580646&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57267488">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57267516" class="comment full contain"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267516" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267516" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267516" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267516" name="comment_link_57267516" href="//science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580646&cid=57267516" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267516)" >Don't take probiotic pills</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267516" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267516); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>5</a>, Insightful)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~PopeRatzo">PopeRatzo</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~PopeRatzo">( 965947 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267516">
+ on Friday September 07, 2018 @12:15AM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580646&cid=57267516">#57267516</a>)
+ <small><a href="//slashdot.org/~PopeRatzo/journal/" title="Monday March 26, 2018 @10:19PM" class="user_journal_display">Journal</a> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267516"><p>Don't waste your money on probiotic capsules. If you want to try to increase the amount or variety of bacteria in your guts, there are tons of delicious foods that are chock full of probiotics. Olives, pickles, fermented meats like the Italian delicacy soprasetta (which might be the tastiest thing ever invented by humans). Kimchi is also good, but it will make you smell bad, so if you're single, you might want to go easy on the kimchi.</p><p>Also, if you use vinegar on salads, try getting some of that good cider vinegar that still has the "mother" in it. Shake the bottle and use like any other vinegar. And of course, yogurt, kefir, that kind of stuff is delicious too.</p><p>I'm not crazy about kombucha. It's a big fad now and there are places here in California that have kombucha on tap, but it's not really to my taste. Some people swear by it. I notice that now when you buy it in the store, they ask for an ID since there's a small amount of alcohol in it.</p><p>Also, alcohol is not really good for your gut bacteria, but there are more important things in life than gut bacteria, you know? Just eat a lot of different kinds of food and you'll end up with good gut bacteria without even trying.</p></div>
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+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267648" name="comment_link_57267648" href="//science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580646&cid=57267648" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267648)" >Re: Don't take probiotic pills</a>
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~ljw1004">ljw1004</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~ljw1004">( 764174 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267648"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267648"><p>Why would you advise people on natural sources of probiotics - in response to an article which said that they're either ineffectual or actually bad?</p></div>
+ </div>
+
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+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267668" name="comment_link_57267668" href="//science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580646&cid=57267668" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267668)" >Re:</a>
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~omnichad">omnichad</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~omnichad">( 1198475 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267668"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267668"><p>They likely contain a lot more biodiversity vs. a monoculture or handful of strains in probiotic supplements. And they would still probably be ineffectual most of the time, except after antibiotic use. This study doesn't cover any of that. Of course if you're trying to feed the microbiome you already have, eating unfermented vegetables makes more sense as they still have the complex sugars like oligosaccharides, fructans and so on that would feed it. That depends on whether you are repopulating after an<span class="substr"> </span></p></div>
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+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~PopeRatzo">PopeRatzo</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~PopeRatzo">( 965947 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267694"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267694"><blockquote><div><p>Why would you advise people on natural sources of probiotics - in response to an article which said that they're either ineffectual or actually bad?</p></div></blockquote><p>Because on the high probability that this new "study" actually gets overturned by future research, I want people to know they can eat delicious healthy food.</p><p>Remember when fats were bad? And coffee? And wine was good for you? And eggs were bad for you? And low-fat diets were good for losing weight?<br>And chocolate was bad for you? Do you need me to go on? When<span class="substr"> </span></p></div>
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+</li><li id="hidestring_57267648"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580646&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57267648">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57267526" class="comment full contain"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267526" class="commentstatus"></div>
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+ <div id="comment_top_57267526" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267526" name="comment_link_57267526" href="//science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580646&cid=57267526" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267526)" >Makes sense to me.</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267526" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267526); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>5</a>, Informative)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Vegan+Cyclist">Vegan Cyclist</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Vegan+Cyclist">( 1650427 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267526">
+ on Friday September 07, 2018 @12:16AM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580646&cid=57267526">#57267526</a>)
+ <small><a href="http://cycling.davenoisy.com/" title="http://cycling.davenoisy.com/" class="user_homepage_display">Homepage</a> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267526"><p>Most probiotics are a pretty small range of bacteria, and I don't know if I've ever seen anywhere that confirms these are actually the ones we want on a large scale...especially when some supplements have pretty large doses of these.</p><p>From all the reading I've done it seems the best direction will be to focus on prebiotics, aka the foods that the microbiome thrives on, which is typically fibrous vegetable matter. Feed the good ones you've got (rather than trying to implant others), and you'll probably be better off.</p></div>
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+</ul>
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+</li><li id="tree_57267564" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267564" class="commentstatus"></div>
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+ <div id="comment_top_57267564" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267564" name="comment_link_57267564" href="//science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580646&cid=57267564" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267564)" >This study is done by morons</a>
+
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+ <span id="comment_score_57267564" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267564); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~gurps_npc">gurps_npc</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~gurps_npc">( 621217 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267564"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267564"><p>What idiot thinks that if you give pills of a specific biome you will get something BESIDES that specific biome???? Look, if you take probiotic pills, you are replacing your normal biome WITH the biome of the pills.</p><p>That was the presumed GOAL of taking the pills. The fact that your biome change is the thing you were trying to do, that's why you take the pills.</p><p>If you have a blue car, and then paint it with red paint you are an idiot if you complain that the car is no longer red.</p><p>There are lots of good reas<span class="substr"> </span></p></div>
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+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~omnichad">omnichad</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~omnichad">( 1198475 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267640"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267640"><p><div class="quote"><p>Look, if you take probiotic pills, you are replacing your normal biome WITH the biome of the pills.</p></div><p>The study concluded the opposite (in all cases except with antibiotic use). And the results are surprising. What it sounds like is happening is that all of the bacteria in the probiotic compete for food with the biofilm in your intestines. However, the probiotic has no way to supplant the biofilm - that's a protective layer that keeps out competing bacteria. It just starves the resident population a little bit as it passes on through. Either way, more or less none of it stays behind and it all leaves t<span class="substr"> </span></p></div>
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+ <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" media="screen, projection" href="//a.fsdn.com/sd/classic.ssl.css?8f5016a67a2f2048" >
+ <!--[if IE 8]><link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" media="screen, projection" href="//a.fsdn.com/sd/ie8-classic.ssl.css?8f5016a67a2f2048" ><![endif]-->
+ <!--[if IE 7]><link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" media="screen, projection" href="//a.fsdn.com/sd/ie7-classic.ssl.css?8f5016a67a2f2048" ><![endif]-->
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <!-- -->
+
+
+
+
+
+ <!-- SMACKS: NEW CSS -->
+ <link rel="stylesheet" href="//a.fsdn.com/sd/css/app.css?8f5016a67a2f2048">
+
+ <script type='text/javascript'>
+var _gaq = _gaq || [];
+</script>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<script type="text/javascript" id="pbjs_script" data-dom="https://d3tglifpd8whs6.cloudfront.net" src="https://d3tglifpd8whs6.cloudfront.net/js/prebid/slash-story/slash-story.min.js"></script>
+<script type='text/javascript'>
+ /*global performance */
+ var googletag = window.googletag || {};
+ googletag.cmd = googletag.cmd || [];
+
+ window.Ads_disallowPersonalization = 1;
+ bizx.cmp.ifConsent('all', 'all', function(){
+ window.Ads_disallowPersonalization = 0;
+ }, function(){
+ window.Ads_disallowPersonalization = 1;
+ }, function () {
+ window.bizxPrebid.Ads.initPrebid(window.bizxPrebid.adUnits);
+ });
+</script>
+
+<!-- prep GPT ads -->
+<script type='text/javascript'>
+(function() {
+ function page_type (loc) {
+ /*
+ only four page types:
+ - Story
+ - Poll
+ - Homepage (/ only)
+ - Other (but AdOps wants 'Homepage' again)
+ */
+ var path = loc.pathname;
+ var just_the_root = /^\/?$/.test(path);
+ var story_or_poll = /^\/(story(?=\/)|submission(?=\/)|poll(?=\/|Booth|s\b))/i.exec(path);
+
+ var page_type = just_the_root ? 'homepage'
+ : story_or_poll ? story_or_poll[1]
+ : 'other'
+
+ // exceptions
+ if (page_type.toLowerCase() === 'submission')
+ page_type = 'story'; // submissions are like stories, right?
+ else if (page_type.toLowerCase() === 'other')
+ page_type = 'homepage'; // this one might move out of here
+
+ return page_type;
+ }
+ function page_section (loc) {
+ //var greek = ['alpha', 'beta', 'gamma', 'delta'].join('|');
+ //var hostwise = '^([a-z]+)(?:-(?:'+greek+'))?\\.(?:slashdot\\.org|\\.xb\\.sf\\.net)$';
+ var pathwise = '^/(?:(recent|popular|blog)|stories/([^/]+))';
+ var rootwise = '^\/?$';
+
+ //var hostwisely = new RegExp(hostwise,'i').exec(loc.hostname);
+ var pathwisely = new RegExp(pathwise,'i').exec(loc.pathname);
+ var rootwisely = new RegExp(rootwise,'i').exec(loc.pathname);
+
+ var section = (rootwisely && 'homepage')
+ || (pathwisely && (pathwisely[1] || pathwisely[2]))
+ || ''
+ ;
+
+ return section.replace(/[^_a-z]/ig, '');
+ }
+ function single_size (size) {
+ return '' + size[0] + 'x' + size[1];
+ }
+ function sz_sz (sz) {
+ var str = '';
+ var sizes = [];
+ if (sz[0] instanceof Array) {
+ for (size in sz) {
+ sizes.push(single_size(sz[size]));
+ }
+ return sizes.join(',');
+ } else {
+ return single_size(sz);
+ }
+ }
+
+ function unique_tpc_array(array1,array2) {
+ var j = array1.concat(array2);
+ j.forEach(function (v,i,a) {
+ a[i] = v.replace(/[^_a-z]/ig, '');
+ });
+ return j.filter(function (v,i,a) {
+ return v != '' && a.indexOf(v) === i;
+ });
+ }
+
+ /* LEGEND:
+ - 'sz' = "size"
+ - 'npt' = "no page type" in ad unit name
+ */
+ var tags = {
+ '728x90_A': { 'sz': [[728, 90], [970, 90], [970, 250], [980, 66]] },
+ '728x90_B': { 'sz': [728, 90] },
+ '728x90_C': { 'sz': [728, 90], 'skip': { 'homepage': 1 } },
+ 'HubIcon_200x90_A': { 'sz': [[200, 90], [220, 90]]},
+ 'PowerSwitch_980x66_A': { 'sz': [980, 66], 'skip': { 'homepage': 1 } },
+ 'PollPeel': { 'sz': [200, 90], 'skip': { 'homepage': 1 } },
+ //'VideoWidget_300x250': { 'sz': [300, 250], 'npt': 1 },
+ '300x250_A': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600], [300, 1050]] },
+ '300x250_B': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]] },
+ '300x250_C': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]] },
+ '300x250_D': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]] },
+ 'Pulse_300x600_A': { 'sz': [300, 600] },
+ //'Polls_Detail_300x250_A': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]], 'npt': 1 },
+ //'Poll_300x250_A': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]], 'npt': 1 },
+ //'SD_Story_1x1': { 'sz': [1, 1] },
+ '1x1': { 'sz': [1, 1] }
+ };
+
+ //var network_path = '/41014381/Slashdot/';
+ var network_path = '/41014381/Slashdot/';
+ var tag_name_prefix = 'SD';
+ var tag_name_linkage = '_';
+ var tag_name_pagetype = page_type(location);
+ var tag_topic = page_section(location);
+ if(tag_name_pagetype == 'poll'){
+ tag_name_pagetype = 'Poll';
+ }
+ var before_tag_pagetyped = network_path
+ + tag_name_prefix
+ + tag_name_linkage
+ + tag_name_pagetype
+ + tag_name_linkage
+ ;
+ var before_tag_pagetypeless = network_path
+ + tag_name_prefix
+ + tag_name_linkage
+ /* + tag_name_pagetype */
+ /* + tag_name_linkage */
+ ;
+
+
+ googletag.cmd.push(function() {
+
+ function remove_sticky_top() {
+ setTimeout(function(){
+ $('#div-gpt-ad-728x90_a').parent('div').addClass('adwrap-viewed-banner');
+ $('#div-gpt-ad-728x90_a').addClass('viewableImpression');
+ }, 1000);
+ }
+ function remove_sticky_railad() {
+ setTimeout(function(){
+ $('#slashboxes .adwrap-unviewed').addClass('adwrap-viewed-railad');
+ $('.railad').addClass('viewableImpression');
+ }, 1000);
+ }
+ function viewable_imp (slot) {
+ for(var i in slot) {
+ if(typeof slot[i] !== 'string') continue;
+ switch(slot[i]){
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_728x90_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_story_728x90_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_Poll_728x90_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_728x90_Ref_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_story_728x90_Ref_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_Poll_728x90_Ref_A":
+ remove_sticky_top();
+ break;
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_300x250_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_story_300x250_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_Poll_300x250_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_300x250_Ref_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_story_300x250_Ref_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_Poll_300x250_Ref_A":
+ remove_sticky_railad();
+ break;
+ }
+ //if(slot[i] === "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_728x90_A") remove_sticky_top();
+ //if(slot[i] === "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_300x250_A") remove_sticky_railad();
+ }
+ }
+ function define_me_a_slot (tag) {
+ if (tags[tag].skip && tags[tag].skip[tag_name_pagetype])
+ return;
+ var sandbox_regex = /\.xb\.sf\.net$/i;
+ var full_name = tags[tag].npt // "no page type"
+ ? before_tag_pagetypeless + tag
+ : before_tag_pagetyped + tag
+ ;
+ var div_id = 'div-gpt-ad-' + tag.toLowerCase();
+
+ var service;
+ // extend jQuery and get URL query params
+ jQuery.extend({
+ getQueryParameters : function(str) {
+ return (str || document.location.search).replace(/(^\?)/,'').split("&").map(function(n){
+ return n = n.split("="),this[n[0]] = n[1],this
+ }.bind({}))[0];
+ }
+ });
+
+ var queryParams = $.getQueryParameters();
+
+ if( queryParams.source === 'autorefresh' ) {
+ full_name = full_name.replace(/(\d+x\d+)/,'$1_Ref');
+ //console.log('TAG NAME: ', full_name);
+ }
+
+ service = googletag.defineSlot(
+ full_name
+ , tags[tag].sz
+ , div_id
+ ).addService(googletag.pubads());
+
+ service.setTargeting('sz', tags[tag].sz);
+
+
+ var frontend_tpc = tag_topic.split(",");
+ var backend_tpc = [ "bug", "chrome", "internet", "google", "technology", "design" ];
+
+ var tpc_final = unique_tpc_array(frontend_tpc, backend_tpc);
+ service.setTargeting('tpc', tpc_final);
+ if (location.hostname.match(sandbox_regex)) {
+ service.setTargeting('test', 'adops');
+ }
+
+ }
+
+ for (tag in tags) {
+ define_me_a_slot(tag, false);
+ }
+ googletag.pubads().addEventListener('impressionViewable', function(event) {
+ viewable_imp(event.slot);
+ });
+
+ googletag.pubads().setTargeting('requestSource', 'GPT');
+ googletag.pubads().setRequestNonPersonalizedAds(window.Ads_disallowPersonalization);
+ googletag.pubads().enableAsyncRendering();
+
+
+ googletag.pubads().collapseEmptyDivs();
+ window.bizxPrebid.SAFEFRAMES = true;
+ bizxPrebid.Ads.pushToGoogle();
+ googletag.enableServices();
+ });
+})();
+</script>
+
+
+
+<!-- CrossPixel -->
+<script type="text/javascript"> try{(function(){ var cb = new Date().getTime(); var s = document.createElement("script"); s.defer = true; s.src = "//tag.crsspxl.com/s1.js?d=2397&cb="+cb; var s0 = document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0]; s0.parentNode.insertBefore(s, s0); })();}catch(e){} </script>
+
+<!-- AdBlock Check -->
+<script>
+var isAdBlockActive = true;
+</script>
+<script async src="//a.fsdn.com/sd/js/scripts/ad.js?8f5016a67a2f2048"></script>
+
+</head>
+<body class="anon firehose ">
+
+
+ <script src="//a.fsdn.com/sd/all-minified.js?8f5016a67a2f2048" type="text/javascript"></script>
+
+
+ <script type="text/javascript">
+(function(){
+var regexp=/\s*(?:\d+|many)\s+more\s*/i;
+
+
+ var auto_more_count = 1;
+
+ function auto_more(){
+ var $more_link = $('#more-experiment a');
+ $more_link.each(function(){
+ var $lastitem = $('#firehoselist>article.fhitem:visible:last');
+ if ( Bounds.intersect(window, $lastitem) ) {
+
+
+ !--auto_more_count && (auto_more=undefined);
+ // don't allow a call till the next paginate gets built and |more_possible|
+ $(document).unbind('scroll', call_auto_more);
+ }
+ });
+ };
+
+ function call_auto_more(){ auto_more && auto_more(); }
+
+
+$('#more-experiment a').
+ live('more-possible', function( event ){
+ var $more_link=$(this);
+ if ( regexp.test($more_link.text()) ) {
+
+ $(document).bind('scroll', call_auto_more);
+ } else {
+ $(document).unbind('scroll', call_auto_more);
+
+ }
+ });
+})();
+</script>
+ <!--[if lt IE 9]><script src="//a.fsdn.com/sd/html5.js"></script><![endif]-->
+
+
+ <script type="text/javascript">
+ (function() {
+ if (typeof window.janrain !== 'object') window.janrain = {};
+ if (typeof window.janrain.settings !== 'object') window.janrain.settings = {};
+
+ /* _______________ can edit below this line _______________ */
+
+ janrain.settings.tokenUrl = 'https://slashdot.org/token_callback.pl';
+ janrain.settings.type = 'embed';
+ janrain.settings.appId = 'ggidemlconlmjciiohla';
+ janrain.settings.appUrl = 'https://login.slashdot.org';
+ janrain.settings.providers = [
+ 'googleplus',
+ 'facebook',
+ 'twitter',
+ 'linkedin'];
+ janrain.settings.providersPerPage = '5';
+ janrain.settings.format = 'one column';
+ janrain.settings.actionText = 'Sign in with';
+ janrain.settings.showAttribution = false;
+ janrain.settings.fontColor = '#666666';
+ janrain.settings.fontFamily = 'lucida grande, Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif';
+ janrain.settings.backgroundColor = '#ffffff';
+ janrain.settings.width = '300';
+ janrain.settings.borderColor = '#cccccc';
+ janrain.settings.borderRadius = '5'; janrain.settings.buttonBorderColor = '#CCCCCC';
+ janrain.settings.buttonBorderRadius = '0';
+ janrain.settings.buttonBackgroundStyle = 'gray';
+ janrain.settings.language = '';
+ janrain.settings.linkClass = 'janrainEngage';
+
+ /* _______________ can edit above this line _______________ */
+
+ function isReady() { janrain.ready = true; };
+ if (document.addEventListener) {
+ document.addEventListener("DOMContentLoaded", isReady, false);
+ } else {
+ window.attachEvent('onload', isReady);
+ }
+
+ var e = document.createElement('script');
+ e.type = 'text/javascript';
+ e.id = 'janrainAuthWidget';
+
+ e.src = 'https://rpxnow.com/js/lib/login.slashdot.org/engage.js';
+
+ var s = document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0];
+ s.parentNode.insertBefore(e, s);
+ })();
+ </script>
+
+ <script src="//cdn-social.janrain.com/social/janrain-social.min.js"></script>
+ <script type="text/javascript">
+ (function($) {
+ $(function(){
+ janrain.settings.appUrl = "https://login.slashdot.org";
+ $twitter = $('body .janrain_twitterButton');
+ $twitter.append('<i class="icon-twitter"></i>');
+
+ janrain.settings.social = {
+ providers: [
+ "native-facebook",
+ "twitter",
+ "linkedin",
+ "native-googleplus",
+ "native-reddit"
+ ],
+ shareCountMin: "100",
+ shareCountMode: "combined"
+ };
+ });
+ })($j);
+ </script>
+ <!-- index2_variant ||-->
+
+ <!-- TABOOLA -->
+ <script type="text/javascript">
+ if (!window.is_euro_union) {
+ window._taboola = window._taboola || [];
+ _taboola.push({home:'auto'});
+ !function (e, f, u) {
+ e.async = 1;
+ e.src = u;
+ f.parentNode.insertBefore(e, f);
+ }(document.createElement('script'),
+ document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0],
+ '//cdn.taboola.com/libtrc/slashdot/loader.js');
+ }
+ </script>
+
+ <!-- html-header type=current end --><!-- header type=current begin -->
+
+
+
+ <link rel="top" title="News for nerds, stuff that matters" href="//slashdot.org/" >
+<link rel="search" title="Search Slashdot" href="//tech.slashdot.org/search.pl">
+<link rel="alternate" title="Slashdot RSS" href="http://rss.slashdot.org/Slashdot/slashdotMain" type="application/rss+xml">
+ <link rel="shortcut icon" href="/favicon.ico" type="image/x-icon">
+
+
+ <div id="top_parent"></div>
+ <a name="topothepage"></a>
+
+ <div class="container">
+ <div class="nav-wrap">
+ <nav class="nav-primary" role="navigation" aria-label="Global Navigation">
+ <h1 class="logo">
+ <a href="//slashdot.org"><span>Slashdot</span></a>
+</h1>
+
+<ul class="nav-site">
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org"><i class="icon-book" title="Stories"></i><span>Stories</span></a></li>
+ <li>
+ <ul class="filter-firehose">
+ <li class="nav-label">Firehose <i class="icon-angle-right"></i></li>
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org/recent">All</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org/popular">Popular</a></li>
+ </ul>
+ </li>
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org/polls"><i class="icon-chart-bar" title="Polls"></i><span>Polls</span></a></li>
+
+ <!--
+ <li><a href="//ask.slashdot.org"><i class="icon-question-circle"></i><span>Ask</span></a></li>
+
+ <li><a href="//events.slashdot.org"><i class="icon-calendar"></i><span>Events</span></a></li>
+ -->
+ <li><a href="http://deals.slashdot.org/?utm_source=slashdot&utm_medium=navbar&utm_campaign=dealshp_1" target="_blank"><i class="sd-mini" title="Deals"></i> <span>Deals</span></a></li>
+</ul>
+<a href="//slashdot.org/submission" class="btn btn-success">Submit</a>
+ </nav>
+ <nav class="nav-user" role="navigation" aria-label="user access and account controls">
+ <form id="search" class="form-inline nav-search-form" method="get" action="//slashdot.org/index2.pl">
+<!-- //tech.slashdot.org/index2.pl" -->
+ <div class="form-group">
+ <label class="sr-only" for="sitesearch">Search Slashdot</label>
+ <div class="input-group">
+ <input type="text" id="" class="" name="fhfilter" value="" placeholder="Search">
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <button type="submit" class="btn icon-search"></button>
+</form>
+<ul class="user-access">
+
+
+ <li >
+ <a href="//slashdot.org/my/login" onclick="show_login_box(); return false;"><i class="icon-login"></i><span> Login</span></a>
+
+ </li>
+
+
+
+ <li class="nav-label">or</li>
+
+
+
+ <li >
+ <a href="//slashdot.org/my/newuser" ><i class="icon-user-add"></i><span> Sign up</span></a>
+
+ </li>
+
+
+</ul>
+ </nav>
+ </div>
+ <div class="nav-secondary-wrap">
+ <nav class="nav-secondary" role="secondary-navigation">
+ <ul>
+ <li class="nav-label">Topics: </li>
+ <li><a href="//devices.slashdot.org">Devices</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//build.slashdot.org">Build</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//entertainment.slashdot.org">Entertainment</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//technology.slashdot.org">Technology</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org/?fhfilter=opensource">Open Source</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//science.slashdot.org">Science</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//yro.slashdot.org">YRO</a></li>
+ <!-- <li><a href="//slashdot.org/topics.pl">more...</a></li> -->
+ </ul>
+</nav>
+<nav class="nav-social" role="social navigation">
+ <ul>
+ <li class="nav-label">Follow us:</li>
+ <li><a href="http://rss.slashdot.org/Slashdot/slashdotMain" target="_blank"><i class="icon-rss-squared"></i><span class="sr-only">RSS</span></a></li>
+ <li><a href="http://www.facebook.com/slashdot" target="_blank"><i class="icon-facebook-squared"></i><span class="sr-only">Facebook</span></a></li>
+ <li><a href="https://plus.google.com/112601993642376762846/" target="_blank"><i class="icon-gplus-squared"></i><span class="sr-only">Google+</span></a></li>
+ <li><a href="http://twitter.com/slashdot" target="_blank"><i class="icon-twitter-squared"></i><span class="sr-only">Twitter</span></a></li>
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org/newsletter" target="_blank"><i class="icon-mail-squared"></i><span class="sr-only">Newsletter</span></a></li>
+ </ul>
+</nav>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+
+ <section>
+
+ <div class="message-bar" id="firehose-message-tray">
+ <span class="icon-quote-left"></span>
+ <p>
+
+
+ Please <strong><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/login.pl">create an account</a></strong> to participate in the Slashdot moderation system
+
+ </p>
+ </div>
+
+
+ <div id='embbeded_login_modal' class="hide">
+<form action="https://slashdot.org/my/login" method="post" onsubmit="if (global_returnto) { this.returnto.value = global_returnto }" class="embedded"><fieldset style="-webkit-border-radius:10px 10px 0 0;border-radius:10px 10px 0 0;-moz-border-radius:10px 10px 0 0">
+<div style='height:25px;'> </div>
+ <input type="hidden" name="returnto" value="">
+ <input type="hidden" name="op" value="userlogin">
+ <p>
+ <label class="fleft" for="unickname">Nickname:</label>
+ <input type="text" name="unickname" value="">
+ </p>
+ <p>
+ <label class="fleft" for="upasswd">Password:</label>
+ <input type="password" name="upasswd" placeholder="6-1024 characters long">
+ </p>
+ <label class="checkbox"><input type="checkbox" name="login_temp" value="yes"> Public Terminal</label>
+ <br>
+ <hr>
+ <input type="submit" name="userlogin" value="Log In" class="fno"> <a href="//slashdot.org/my/mailpassword" class="btn link" onclick="getModalPrefs('sendPasswdModal', 'Retrieve Password', 1); return false;">Forgot your password?</a>
+</fieldset></form>
+
+<div id="janrainEngageEmbed"></div>
+<div class="actions">
+ <a class="ico close" onclick="hide_login_slider();" href=""><span>Close</span></a>
+</div>
+</div>
+
+
+ <div class="banner-wrapper">
+ <div class="adwrap adwrap-unviewed banner-contain">
+
+ <div id='div-gpt-ad-728x90_a'><script type='text/javascript'>
+googletag.cmd.push(function(){
+googletag.display('div-gpt-ad-728x90_a');});</script></div>
+ <div id='div-gpt-ad-hubicon_200x90_a'><script type='text/javascript'>
+googletag.cmd.push(function(){
+googletag.display('div-gpt-ad-hubicon_200x90_a');});</script></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+
+ <a name="main-articles"></a>
+
+ <!-- header type=current end --><!-- body begin -->
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <style type="text/css">
+menu, menu * {
+ text-decoration:none;
+}
+
+menu[type=context] {
+ display:none;
+ position:absolute;
+ z-index:10000;
+}
+
+menu[type=context]:not(.brief) {
+ background-color:#dfdfdf;
+ margin:0;
+ padding:2px 0.5em;
+ border-style:solid;
+ border-width:1px;
+ border-color:#eeeeee #aaaaaa #aaaaaa #eeeeee;
+ -moz-border-radius-topright:.7em;
+ -webkit-border-top-right-radius: 0.7em 0.7em;
+}
+
+menu.full[type=context] > a.slash-hover:first-child {
+ -moz-border-radius-topright:.6em;
+ -webkit-border-top-right-radius: 0.6em 0.6em;
+}
+
+
+
+menu.brief[type=context] > a {
+ -moz-border-radius:.6em;
+ -webkit-border-radius: 0.6em;
+ color:#ffffff;
+ background-color:#000000;
+}
+
+/*
+span.briefmenu a.tag:not(.datatype) {
+ padding-left:.5em;
+}
+*/
+
+
+
+
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+article aside .share .addthis_toolbox { display:block; width:60px; float:left; }
+article aside.view_mode .share { min-width:120px; padding-top:.5em; }
+#firehose.list article header h2 {padding-left: 20px; !important}
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+
+.vote > a, .votedup > a, .voteddown > a {
+ display:inline-block;
+ height:22px;
+ width:22px;
+ margin: 2px 10px 0 0;
+ color:rgb(255,255,255);
+ text-decoration:none;
+ line-height:22px;
+ text-align:center;
+ font-weight:bold;
+ font-size:14px;
+ border-width:1px;
+ border-style:solid;
+ border-color:rgba(0,0,0,0.5);
+}
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+article:not(.fhitem-story) .vote .up,article:not(.fhitem-story) .vote .down,article:not(.fhitem-story) .votedup .up,article:not(.fhitem-story) .votedup .down,article:not(.fhitem-story) .voteddown .up,article:not(.fhitem-story) .voteddown .down { /*text-shadow:none !important; */}
+.voteddown .down, .votedup .up { margin-right: 10px; text-indent:2px; line-height:24px; }
+article:not(.fhitem-story) .votedup .up,article:not(.fhitem-story) .voteddown .down {background: rgb(174,174,174);background-image: -webkit-gradient(linear, 0% 0%, 0% 100%, from(rgb(174,174,174)), to(rgb(193,193,193)));background-image: -moz-linear-gradient(100% 100% 90deg,rgb(193,193,193), rgb(174,174,174) 100%);color:rgb(0,0,0);}
+article.fhitem-story .votedup .up,article.fhitem-story .voteddown .down {background: rgb(0,66,66);background-image: -webkit-gradient(linear, 0% 0%, 0% 100%, from(rgb(0,53,53)), to(rgb(0,102,102)));background-image: -moz-linear-gradient(100% 100% 90deg,rgb(0,102,102), rgb(0,53,53) 100%);}
+
+
+
+
+#tag-menu span.var-tag {
+font-weight:normal;
+color:#444444;
+}
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+menu.reasons-menu a {
+padding:0 .25em 0 .25em;
+font-size:80%;
+-moz-border-radius:.5em;
+-webkit-border-radius:.5em;
+cursor:pointer;
+}
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+background:rgb(153,153,153);
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+background-image: -webkit-gradient(linear, 0% 0%, 0% 100%, from(rgb(153,153,153)), to(rgb(102,102,102)));
+color:#fff;
+text-decoration:none;
+font-weignt:normal;
+}
+
+article.fhitem-story menu.reasons-menu a:hover {
+background:#002323 !important;
+background:-moz-linear-gradient(100% 100% 90deg, #002323, #005353 70%) repeat scroll 0 0 #002323 !important;
+background-image: -webkit-gradient(linear, 0% 0%, 0% 100%, from(#005353), to(#002323)) !important;
+}
+
+
+menu.reasons-menu {
+ display:none;
+ margin:0;
+ padding:0;
+}
+
+div.fhitem h3 menu.reasons-menu {
+margin:0.25em 0 0;
+}
+
+div.fhitem h3 menu.reasons-menu a.tag {
+font-size:.8em;
+}
+
+#tag-menu a.slash-hover,
+#feedback-menu a.slash-hover,
+
+.tag-display span.tag:hover,
+.tag-display span.tag.trigger {
+ color:white;
+ background-color:rgb(0, 85, 85);
+}
+
+#tag-menu a.slash-hover span.var-tag {
+ color:#eee;
+}
+
+.tag-entry.default {
+ color:#ccc;
+}
+
+.brief .nix {
+ margin-top:-1.35em;
+ margin-left:0px;
+ margin-top:-1.15em;
+ text-decoration:none;
+ line-height:1.35em;
+ padding:0 2px;
+ -moz-border-radius:.6em 0 0 .6em;
+ -webkit-border-radius:.6em 0 0 .6em;
+ -o-border-radius:.6em 0 0 .6em;
+ border-radius:.6em 0 0 .6em;
+ color:#fff !important;
+ background:transparent !important;
+}
+
+.brief .nix:hover {
+ background:rgb(153,153,153) !important;
+ background:-moz-linear-gradient(100% 100% 90deg, rgb(102,102,102), rgb(153,153,153) 70%) repeat scroll 0 0 rgb(102,102,102) !important;
+ background-image: -webkit-gradient(linear, 0% 0%, 0% 100%, from(rgb(153,153,153)), to(rgb(102,102,102))) !important;
+}
+
+</style>
+
+<menu id="nix-reasons" style="display:none">
+ <a class="tag">binspam</a><a class="tag">dupe</a><a class="tag">notthebest</a><a class="tag">offtopic</a><a class="tag">slownewsday</a><a class="tag">stale</a><a class="tag">stupid</a>
+</menu>
+<menu id="nod-reasons" style="display:none">
+ <a class="tag">fresh</a><a class="tag">funny</a><a class="tag">insightful</a><a class="tag">interesting</a><a class="tag">maybe</a>
+</menu>
+<menu id="comment-nix-reasons" style="display:none">
+ <a class="tag">offtopic</a><a class="tag">flamebait</a><a class="tag">troll</a><a class="tag">redundant</a><a class="tag">overrated</a>
+</menu>
+<menu id="comment-nod-reasons" style="display:none">
+ <a class="tag">insightful</a><a class="tag">interesting</a><a class="tag">informative</a><a class="tag">funny</a><a class="tag">underrated</a>
+</menu>
+
+<menu id="tag-nod-reasons" style="display:none">
+ <a class="tag">descriptive</a>
+</menu>
+<menu id="feedback-menu" class="tag-menu-admin" type="context">
+ <a class="tag">typo</a><a class="tag">dupe</a><a class="tag">error</a>
+</menu>
+<menu id="tag-menu" class="tag-menu-admin none" type="context">
+
+<!-- <a data-op="!" class="nix">!<span class="var-tag hide"></span></a>-->
+
+</menu>
+
+<script type="text/javascript">
+$(function(){
+var $CURRENT_MENU, $TAG_MENU=$('#tag-menu'), NOTNOT=/^!!/, IE7=/^7\.0/, TAG_PREFIX=/^\/tag\//;
+
+function get_tag_name( $tag ){
+ return ($tag.attr('href') || '').replace(TAG_PREFIX, '') || $tag.text().toLowerCase();
+}
+
+function trigger_menu( e, selector, $menu, menu_content ){
+ var $target=$(original_target(e, selector)), in_use=$target.is('.trigger');
+ if ( $CURRENT_MENU ) {
+ $CURRENT_MENU.menu('cancel', e);
+ $CURRENT_MENU = null;
+ }
+
+ if ( !in_use ) {
+ menu_content && $menu.stop(true, true).hide().html(menu_content);
+ ($CURRENT_MENU=$menu).menu('context', e);
+ }
+ return !in_use;
+}
+
+function open_menu( trigger, $menu ){
+ var $trigger=$(trigger), $fhitem=$trigger.closest('.fhitem');
+ $fhitem.length && user_intent('interest', $fhitem[0]);
+
+ $menu.appendTo(document.body).css({ opacity:0 }).show();
+
+ var right = $fhitem.offset().left + $fhitem.width(),
+ global = $trigger.offset(),
+ local = $menu.offsetParent().offset();
+
+ // Ugly IE position hack required:
+ $.browser.msie && IE7.test($.browser.version) && (local.top = 0);
+
+ // pin the menu (horizontally) on-screen
+ global.left = Math.min(global.left, right-$menu.width());
+
+ $trigger.addClass('trigger');
+ $menu.css({
+ position: 'absolute',
+ top: global.top - local.top + $trigger.height(),
+ left: global.left - local.left,
+ opacity: 1
+ });
+}
+
+function close_menu( trigger, $menu ){
+ $menu.hide();
+ $(trigger).removeClass('trigger');
+ ($CURRENT_MENU===$menu) && ($CURRENT_MENU=false);
+}
+
+/* T2 tag context-menu */
+var $TAG_MENU=$('#tag-menu'), NOTNOT=/^!!/;
+
+
+ var user_is_admin = 0;
+
+
+
+$('a[rel=tag]').live('mousedown',function(ea){
+ window.open(this.href);
+ return false;
+})
+
+$('.tag-bar .disagree').live('mousedown',function(ee){
+ var fhitem = $(original_target(ee)).closest('.fhitem')[0],
+ command = ('!' + $(original_target(ee)).attr("data-tag")).replace(NOTNOT, '');
+ try { Tags.submit(fhitem, command); } catch ( err ) { }
+ return false;
+})
+
+
+
+$('a[rel=tag]').
+ live('mousedown', function( e ){
+
+ return true;
+
+
+ }).
+ live('click', function( e ){
+ if ( !logged_in ) {
+ var target = original_target(e),
+ tag = $(target).text();
+ addfhfilter(tag);
+ }
+ e.preventDefault();
+ return false;
+ });
+
+$TAG_MENU.menu({
+ cssNamespace: 'slash',
+ liveTriggers: true,
+ clickDuration: 300,
+
+ start: function( e, ui ){
+ var $tag = $(ui.trigger),
+ tag = get_tag_name($tag),
+ context = firehose_settings && firehose_settings.viewtitle;
+
+ // Insert the tagname into the menu items where needed.
+ $TAG_MENU.find('span.var-tag').text(tag);
+ $TAG_MENU.find('a.nix').attr('title','not ' + tag);
+
+
+ // non-admins may only delete their own tags
+ $TAG_MENU.find('a:[data-op="-"]').toggle($tag.is('.my'));
+
+
+ // *tagname* in *viewtitle*
+ $TAG_MENU.find('a:[data-op="="]').toggle(!!context);
+ context && $TAG_MENU.find('span.var-view').text(context);
+
+ open_menu($tag, $TAG_MENU);
+ },
+
+ select: function( e, ui ){
+ var $tag = $(ui.trigger),
+ tag = get_tag_name($tag),
+ op = $(ui.select).attr('data-op'),
+ fhitem,
+ command;
+
+ // Global for positioning other things.
+ $related_trigger = $tag;
+
+ switch ( op ) {
+ case '=':
+ addfhfilter(tag);
+ break;
+
+ default:
+ fhitem = $tag.closest('.fhitem')[0];
+ command = (op + tag).replace(NOTNOT, '');
+ try { Tags.submit(fhitem, command); } catch ( err ) { }
+ break;
+ }
+ },
+
+ stop: function( e, ui ){ close_menu(ui.trigger, $TAG_MENU); }
+});
+
+
+
+
+/* T2 feedback context-menu */
+
+
+
+/* T2 datatype context-menu (admin-only) */
+
+
+
+
+
+
+});
+</script>
+
+
+
+<!-- SMACKS: BEGIN STORY CONTENT -->
+<div class="container">
+ <!--SMACKS: BEGING CENTER COLUMN -->
+ <div class="main-wrap has-rail-right">
+ <div class="main-content">
+ <div class="grid_24 a2 ">
+ </div>
+ <div id="firehose" class="nothumbs">
+ <div id="firehoselist" class="fhroot fleft grid_24">
+ <div id="announcement">
+ <div id="announcementText" style="display: none;"> <span class="headline">Migrate from GitHub to SourceForge quickly and easily with <strong><a href="https://sourceforge.net/p/forge/documentation/GitHub%20Importer/">this tool</a></strong>.</span> Check out all of SourceForge’s <strong><a href="https://sourceforge.net/blog/brief-history-sourceforge-look-to-future/">recent improvements.</a></strong></div>
+ <a href="" class="btn-close" title="don't show me this again" onclick="closeAnnouncement(); return false;">×</a>
+</div>
+
+
+<script type="text/javascript">
+
+if (!$.cookie('hide_sitenotice_36')) {
+ $('#announcement').fadeIn(300);
+}
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+ $('#announcement').fadeOut(300);
+ $.cookie('hide_sitenotice_36', 'true', { path: '/', domain: 'slashdot.org', expires: 1 });
+}
+</script>
+ <article id="firehose-102638976" data-fhid="102638976" data-fhtype="story" class="fhitem fhitem-story article usermode thumbs grid_24">
+ <span class="sd-info-block" style="display: none">
+ <span class="sd-key-firehose-id">102638976</span>
+ <span class="type">story</span>
+
+ </span>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<header>
+
+ <span class="topic" id="topic-102638976">
+ <a href="//tech.slashdot.org/index2.pl?fhfilter=chrome" onclick="return addfhfilter('chrome');">
+
+ <img src="//a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/chrome_64.png" width="64" height="64" alt="Chrome" title="Chrome">
+
+ </a>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <a href="//tech.slashdot.org/index2.pl?fhfilter=google" onclick="return addfhfilter('google');">
+
+ <img src="//a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/google_64.png" width="64" height="64" alt="Google" title="Google">
+
+ </a>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <a href="//tech.slashdot.org/index2.pl?fhfilter=bug" onclick="return addfhfilter('bug');">
+
+ <img src="//a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/bug_64.png" width="64" height="64" alt="Bug" title="Bug">
+
+ </a>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <a href="//tech.slashdot.org/index2.pl?fhfilter=internet" onclick="return addfhfilter('internet');">
+
+ <img src="//a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/internet_64.png" width="64" height="64" alt="The Internet" title="The Internet">
+
+ </a>
+ </span>
+
+
+ <h2 class="story">
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <span id="title-102638976" class="story-title"> <a href="//tech.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1839242/google-investigating-issue-with-blurry-fonts-on-new-chrome-69">Google Investigating Issue With Blurry Fonts on new Chrome 69</a> <span class=" no extlnk"><a class="story-sourcelnk" href="https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-investigating-issue-with-blurry-fonts-on-new-chrome-69/" title="External link - https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-investigating-issue-with-blurry-fonts-on-new-chrome-69/" target="_blank"> (zdnet.com) </a></span></span>
+
+
+
+ <!--<span class="comments commentcnt-102638976" >60</span>-->
+
+
+
+ <!-- comment bubble -->
+
+ <span class="comment-bubble"><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1839242/google-investigating-issue-with-blurry-fonts-on-new-chrome-69#comments" title="">60</a></span>
+
+ </h2>
+ <div class="details" id="details-102638976">
+ <span class="story-details">
+ <span class="story-views">
+ <span class="sodify" onclick="firehose_set_options('color', 'red')" title="Filter Firehose to entries rated red or better"></span><span class="icon-beaker pop1 " alt="Popularity" title="Filter Firehose to entries rated red or better" onclick="firehose_set_options('color', 'red')"><span></span></span>
+ </span>
+ </span>
+ <span class="story-byline">
+
+
+ Posted
+ by
+
+
+
+ msmash
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <time id="fhtime-102638976" datetime="on Thursday September 06, 2018 @02:40PM">on Thursday September 06, 2018 @02:40PM</time>
+
+
+ from the <span class="dept-text">blurry-texts</span> dept.
+
+ </span>
+ </div>
+</header>
+
+<div class="body" id="fhbody-102638976">
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <div id="text-102638976" class="p">
+
+
+ Since the <a href="https://tech.slashdot.org/story/18/09/04/1711250/chrome-69-arrives-with-revamped-design-more-powerful-omnibox-and-better-password-manager">release of Chrome 69 earlier this week</a>, countless of users have gone on social media and Google Product Forums to <a href="https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-investigating-issue-with-blurry-fonts-on-new-chrome-69/">complain about "blurry" or "fuzzy" text inside Chrome</a>. ZDNet:<i> The blurred font issue isn't only limited to text rendered inside a web page, users said, but also for the text suggestions displayed inside the address bar search drop-down, and Chrome's Developer Tools panel. [...] According to reports, the issue only manifests for Chrome 69 users on Windows. Those who rolled back to Chrome 68 stopped having problems. Users said that changing Chrome, operating system, or screen DPI settings didn't help. "Our team is investigating reports of this behavior. You can find more information in this public bug report," a Google spokesperson said last night after first user complaints started surfacing online.</i> Some users have also expressed concerns over Chrome not showing <a href="https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=881410">"trivial subdomains" including <em>www</em></a> and secure lock sign in the address bar.<br>
+
+ </div>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ </div>
+ <aside class="grid_24 view_mode">
+
+ <div class="units-12 story-detail-tags">
+ <span id="sharethis-102638976" class="">
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <div class="story-controls">
+ <div
+ class="janrainSocialPlaceholder"
+ data-janrain-url="https://tech.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1839242/google-investigating-issue-with-blurry-fonts-on-new-chrome-69"
+ data-janrain-title="Google Investigating Issue With Blurry Fonts on new Chrome 69"
+ data-janrain-message="Google Investigating Issue With Blurry Fonts on new Chrome 69 @slashdot"
+ ></div>
+ </div>
+
+
+ </span>
+
+ <div class="story-tags">
+ <div class="tright tw">
+
+ <span class="tright tags">
+
+ <menu type="toolbar" class="edit-bar">
+ <span id="tagbar-102638976" class="tag-bar none">
+ <a class="topic tag" rel="statictag" href="//slashdot.org/tag/" target="_blank"></a>
+<a class="popular tag" rel="statictag" href="//slashdot.org/tag/bug" target="_blank">bug</a>
+<a class="popular tag" rel="statictag" href="//slashdot.org/tag/chrome" target="_blank">chrome</a>
+<a class="popular tag" rel="statictag" href="//slashdot.org/tag/design" target="_blank">design</a>
+
+ </span>
+
+ <a class="edit-toggle" href="/my/login/" onclick="show_login_box();return false;">
+ <span class="icon-tag btn collapse"></span>
+ </a>
+
+
+ <div class="tag-menu">
+ <input class="tag-entry default" type="text" value="apply tags">
+ </div>
+
+
+
+
+
+ </menu>
+
+ </span>
+
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <section class="grid_24" id="newa2footerv2">
+ <div class="grid_6 pr">
+ <h3><a title="Previous story" href="//yro.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1651255/tor-browser-gets-a-redesign-switches-to-new-firefox-quantum-engine?sdsrc=prev">←</a></h3>
+ </div>
+ <div class="grid_12 rl">
+ <h3>Related Links</h3>
+ </div>
+ <div class="grid_6 ns">
+ <h3><a title="Next story" href="//games.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1921222/eve-online-studio-acquired-by-korean-mmo-maker?sdsrc=next">→</a></h3>
+ </div>
+ <div class="grid_6">
+ <span class="c">
+ <a href="//yro.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1651255/tor-browser-gets-a-redesign-switches-to-new-firefox-quantum-engine?sdsrc=prev">Tor Browser Gets a Redesign, Switches To New Firefox Quantum Engine </a>
+ </span>
+ </div>
+ <div class="grid_12">
+ <span class="c">
+
+
+ <h3><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/story/18/09/04/1711250/chrome-69-arrives-with-revamped-design-more-powerful-omnibox-and-better-password-manager?sdsrc=rel">Chrome 69 Arrives With Revamped Design, More Powerful Omnibox, and Better Password Manager</a></h3><script type="text/javascript">
+ (function($){
+ $('.js_disp_only').show();
+ $('a.jshandle_related').on('click', '', function(e) {
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+ window.location = url
+ });
+ })($j);
+ </script>
+
+ </span>
+ </div>
+ <div class="grid_6">
+ <span class="c">
+
+ <a href="//games.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1921222/eve-online-studio-acquired-by-korean-mmo-maker?sdsrc=next">'Eve Online' Studio Acquired By Korean MMO Maker</a>
+
+ </span>
+ </div>
+ </section>
+
+
+
+ </aside>
+
+
+
+
+ </article>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <!-- SMACKS: BEGIN RIGHT RAIL -->
+ <aside id="slashboxes" class="rail-right">
+
+ <div id="slashboxesin" class="yui-b">
+
+
+
+ </div>
+ <div class="railad adwrap-unviewed">
+<div id='div-gpt-ad-300x250_a'><script type='text/javascript'>
+googletag.cmd.push(function(){
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+ target_type: 'mix'
+ });
+ };
+</script>
+
+ </aside>
+ <!-- SMACKS: END RIGHT RAIL -->
+</div>
+<!-- END STORY CONTENT -->
+
+<!-- THIS IS THE LOCATION FOR THE NEW STORY_B CODE -->
+<div class="adwrap">
+<div id='div-gpt-ad-728x90_b'><script type='text/javascript'>
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+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265224">Whats the deal with the new interface. Looks like we are back to rounded corners again.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265224">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265224"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265224">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265224" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57265224"><li id="tree_57265252" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265252" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265252" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265252"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265252">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265252" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57265252"><li id="tree_57265290" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265290" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265290" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265290" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265290" name="comment_link_57265290" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&cid=57265290" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265290)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265290" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265290); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>1</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~110010001000">110010001000</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~110010001000">( 697113 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265290"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265290">And what's the deal with decaf coffee? How do they get the caffeine out of there, and then where does it go?</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265290">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265290"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265290">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265290" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57265290"><li id="tree_57265902" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265902" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265902" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265902" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265902" name="comment_link_57265902" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&cid=57265902" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265902)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265902" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265902); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>1</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span>Anonymous Coward</span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265902"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265902"><p>Why do they put caffeine in coffee and then take it back out?</p><p>And why if Chrome rendering fonts in the first place? That's a job for the operating system.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265902">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265902"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265902">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265902" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267618" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267618" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267618" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267618" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267618" name="comment_link_57267618" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&cid=57267618" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267618)" >Re: Whats the deal</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267618" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267618); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~spongman">spongman</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~spongman">( 182339 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267618"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267618"><p>dichloromethe (or ethyl acetate) leeching.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267618">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267618"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267618">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267618" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266944" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266944" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266944" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266944" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266944" name="comment_link_57266944" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&cid=57266944" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266944)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266944" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266944); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~DontBeAMoran">DontBeAMoran</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~DontBeAMoran">( 4843879 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266944"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266944"><p>Score: 5, That's gold Jerry, GOLD!</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266944">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266944"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266944">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266944" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li></ul></li><li id="tree_57265256" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265256" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265256" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265256"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265256">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265256" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57265292" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265292" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265292" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265292"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265292">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265292" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57265224"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265224">3 replies</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57265240" class="comment full contain"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265240" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265240" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265240" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265240" name="comment_link_57265240" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&cid=57265240" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265240)" >So Chrome 69 makes you blind?</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265240" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265240); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>4</a>, Funny)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~the_skywise">the_skywise</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~the_skywise">( 189793 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265240">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @02:46PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&cid=57265240">#57265240</a>)
+ <small> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265240">The jokes write themselves...</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265240">
+<span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57265240" class="btn link" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&op=Reply&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265240" onclick="D2.replyTo(57265240); return false;">Reply to This</a> <a href="#" class="comment_share_toggle btn link">Share</a>
+ <div class="comment_share sharethis-0 hide"><span class="au"></span>
+ <a class="janrain t" href="#" data-provider="twitter" data-message="So Chrome 69 makes you blind? by the_skywise @slashdot" data-url="https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&cid=57265240" data-title="So Chrome 69 makes you blind?">twitter</a>
+ <a class="janrain f" href="#" data-provider="facebook" data-message="So Chrome 69 makes you blind? by the_skywise" data-url="https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&cid=57265240" data-title="So Chrome 69 makes you blind?">facebook</a>
+ <a class="janrain l" href="#" data-provider="linkedin" data-message="So Chrome 69 makes you blind? by the_skywise" data-url="https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&cid=57265240" data-title="So Chrome 69 makes you blind?">linkedin</a>
+ <a class="g" href="https://plus.google.com/share?url=https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274%26cid=57265240" onclick="javascript:window.open(this.href,'', 'menubar=no,toolbar=no,resizable=yes,scrollbars=yes,height=600,width=600');return false;"><img src="//www.gstatic.com/images/icons/gplus-16.png" alt="Share on Google+"/></a>
+ </div>
+ <span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57265240" title="Flag this comment as Inappropriate" class="ui-icon flag fright" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&op=flag&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265240" onclick="return false;">Flag as Inappropriate</a>
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265240"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265240">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265240" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57265240"><li id="tree_57265446" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265446" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265446" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265446"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265446">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265446" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266366" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266366" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266366" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266366"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266366">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266366" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266686" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266686" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266686" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266686"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266686">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266686" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57265240"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265240">3 replies</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57265250" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265250" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265250" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265250" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265250" name="comment_link_57265250" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&cid=57265250" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265250)" >Blurry Fonts...</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265250" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265250); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Oswald+McWeany">Oswald McWeany</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Oswald+McWeany">( 2428506 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265250"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265250"><p>Maybe they need to put on their Google Glass so they can read the fonts clearer.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265250">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265250"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265250">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265250" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57265250"><li id="tree_57265304" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265304" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265304" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265304" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265304" name="comment_link_57265304" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&cid=57265304" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265304)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265304" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265304); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>3</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Z00L00K">Z00L00K</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Z00L00K">( 682162 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265304"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265304"><p>They just started to use Cleartype and the fuzzy fonts.</p><p>Both cleartype and fuzzy fonts gives me a headache so I have to use uBlock to revert to the browser default when I run Firefox.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265304">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265304"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265304">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265304" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li></ul></li><li id="tree_57265262" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265262" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265262" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265262"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265262">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265262" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57265308" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265308" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265308" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265308"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265308">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265308" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57265334" class="comment full contain"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265334" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265334" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265334" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265334" name="comment_link_57265334" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&cid=57265334" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265334)" >I bet you</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265334" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265334); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>5</a>, Insightful)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~The+MAZZTer">The MAZZTer</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~The+MAZZTer">( 911996 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265334"> <<a href="mailto:%60moc.liamg'+%60ta'+%60tzzagem'">`moc.liamg' `ta' `tzzagem'</a>>
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @02:58PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&cid=57265334">#57265334</a>)
+ <small><a href="http://www.mzzt.net/" title="http://www.mzzt.net/" class="user_homepage_display">Homepage</a> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265334">If these are Windows users they screwed with the Compatibility Mode options for DPI in order to make the window smaller or bigger. It looked fine until Google did something differently and now the Compatibility Mode options make it look blurry. Turns out using options designed for use on legacy applications only on modern applications introduces problems. Lots of Steam users have similar problems.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265334">
+<span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57265334" class="btn link" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&op=Reply&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265334" onclick="D2.replyTo(57265334); return false;">Reply to This</a> <a href="#" class="comment_share_toggle btn link">Share</a>
+ <div class="comment_share sharethis-0 hide"><span class="au"></span>
+ <a class="janrain t" href="#" data-provider="twitter" data-message="I bet you by The MAZZTer @slashdot" data-url="https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&cid=57265334" data-title="I bet you">twitter</a>
+ <a class="janrain f" href="#" data-provider="facebook" data-message="I bet you by The MAZZTer" data-url="https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&cid=57265334" data-title="I bet you">facebook</a>
+ <a class="janrain l" href="#" data-provider="linkedin" data-message="I bet you by The MAZZTer" data-url="https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&cid=57265334" data-title="I bet you">linkedin</a>
+ <a class="g" href="https://plus.google.com/share?url=https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274%26cid=57265334" onclick="javascript:window.open(this.href,'', 'menubar=no,toolbar=no,resizable=yes,scrollbars=yes,height=600,width=600');return false;"><img src="//www.gstatic.com/images/icons/gplus-16.png" alt="Share on Google+"/></a>
+ </div>
+ <span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57265334" title="Flag this comment as Inappropriate" class="ui-icon flag fright" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&op=flag&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265334" onclick="return false;">Flag as Inappropriate</a>
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265334"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265334">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265334" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57265334"><li id="tree_57265388" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265388" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265388" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265388" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265388" name="comment_link_57265388" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&cid=57265388" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265388)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265388" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265388); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~omnichad">omnichad</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~omnichad">( 1198475 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265388"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265388"><p>Wrong. I use the standard DPI settings for the whole screen (1.5x on my 27" 4K screen), which only works with programs that are DPI-aware. It's true that I didn't notice the blurry fonts until I saw the headline, but I really just thought I was that tired (I've only had 69 for about a day). At least for me, it's fairly mild.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265388">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265388"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265388">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265388" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57265388"><li id="tree_57265524" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265524" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265524" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265524"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265524">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265524" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57265524"><li id="tree_57265592" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265592" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265592" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265592" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265592" name="comment_link_57265592" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&cid=57265592" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265592)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265592" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265592); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~omnichad">omnichad</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~omnichad">( 1198475 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265592"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265592"><p>If it looks significantly worse, it could also have nothing at all to do with the bug - Chrome is DPI aware and should never have that enabled. Especially since the bug report doesn't have any mention of anything but the system DPI setting.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265592">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265592"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265592">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265592" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267270" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267270" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267270" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267270"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267270">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267270" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57265524"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265524">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57265852" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265852" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265852" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265852"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265852">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265852" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57265852"><li id="tree_57265900" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265900" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265900" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265900" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265900" name="comment_link_57265900" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&cid=57265900" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265900)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265900" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265900); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~omnichad">omnichad</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~omnichad">( 1198475 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265900"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265900"><p>So you like the way I word it (No Giggity).</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265900">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265900"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265900">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265900" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li></ul></li><li id="hidestring_57265388"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265388">2 replies</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57265438" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265438" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265438" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265438" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265438" name="comment_link_57265438" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&cid=57265438" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265438)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265438" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265438); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>3</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Solandri">Solandri</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Solandri">( 704621 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265438"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265438">The problem is there are three ways to tweak the DPI. Compatibility Mode, which can be set on a per-app basis. Display scaling, which is set via the Windows desktop and affects everything. And Advanced Scaling which Microsoft introduced with the Spring Creators Update, which I haven't figured out exactly how it's different from the regular Display Scaling.
+<br> <br>
+Under the hood, there's also ClearType which runs on top of DPI scaling, and does <a href="https://www.grc.com/ctwhat.htm" title="grc.com">subpixel rendering<span class="substr"> </span></a> [grc.com] (using the individual red, green, and blue subp</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265438">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265438"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265438">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265438" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57265438"><li id="tree_57265464" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265464" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265464" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265464" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265464" name="comment_link_57265464" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&cid=57265464" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265464)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265464" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265464); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~omnichad">omnichad</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~omnichad">( 1198475 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265464"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265464"><p>Looking at some zoomed in screenshots, I think they're scaling the subpixel rendering itself (which should never happen). There is no reason to have red or blue tint on anything but the outermost pixel, but looking at my screenshot close up I'm seeing two side-by-side bluish or reddish pixels.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265464">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265464"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265464">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265464" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li></ul></li><li id="tree_57265504" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265504" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265504" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265504" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265504" name="comment_link_57265504" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&cid=57265504" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265504)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265504" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265504); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Scoth">Scoth</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Scoth">( 879800 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265504"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265504"><p>Even on Chrome 69 on my multi-DPI work setup I have to turn on the DPI scaling compatibility mode/override to not get huge dialog boxes and widgets. It's a bit frustrating to me that a currently supported, modern app would still have problems with that.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265504">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265504"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265504">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265504" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57265522" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265522" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265522" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265522"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265522">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265522" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57265522"><li id="tree_57265636" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265636" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265636" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265636"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265636">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265636" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57265522"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265522">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57265830" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265830" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265830" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265830" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265830" name="comment_link_57265830" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&cid=57265830" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265830)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265830" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265830); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Ingenium13">Ingenium13</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Ingenium13">( 162116 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265830"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265830"><p>Nope, I have a Windows VM that's essentially stock that I use for a couple applications. I had Chrome open in it earlier today, and noticed that the fonts were blurry and were giving me a headache after a few minutes of use. I thought maybe it was something with RDP messing it up, but after I read this, I logged in again and verified that the fuzzy fonts are only in Chrome. All other applications are fine.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265830">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265830"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265830">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265830" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57265830"><li id="tree_57266160" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266160" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266160" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266160"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266160">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266160" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57265830"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265830">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266134" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266134" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266134" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266134" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266134" name="comment_link_57266134" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&cid=57266134" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266134)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266134" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266134); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~greenwow">greenwow</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~greenwow">( 3635575 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266134"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266134"><p>And most Windows apps. For most of our users on Windows 10, Windows apps have blurry text no matter what settings we try. That really sucks for developers that need to read a lot of text.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266134">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266134"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266134">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266134" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266148" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266148" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266148" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266148"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266148">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266148" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266148"><li id="tree_57267620" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267620" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267620" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267620" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267620" name="comment_link_57267620" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&cid=57267620" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267620)" >Re: I bet you</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267620" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267620); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~spongman">spongman</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~spongman">( 182339 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267620"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267620"><p>They don't?</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267620">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267620"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267620">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267620" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266926" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266926" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266926" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266926"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266926">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266926" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57265334"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265334">3 replies</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57265342" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265342" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265342" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265342"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265342">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265342" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57265364" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265364" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265364" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265364" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265364" name="comment_link_57265364" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&cid=57265364" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265364)" >Not new</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265364" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265364); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Tailhook">Tailhook</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Tailhook">( 98486 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265364"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265364"><p>Chrome has been having this problem for certain desktop users for a while now. There are workaround flags and whatnot. Just another chronic quality problem in Chrome that never gets fixed....</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265364">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265364"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265364">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265364" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57265364"><li id="tree_57265718" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265718" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265718" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265718" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265718" name="comment_link_57265718" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&cid=57265718" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265718)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265718" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265718); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>1</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~MidSpeck">MidSpeck</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~MidSpeck">( 1516577 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265718"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265718"><p>True. I had to disable "Accelerated 2D canvas" in order to get the fuzziness to go away on mine on Chrome 68, which was working just fine before that.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265718">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265718"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265718">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265718" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li></ul></li><li id="tree_57265370" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265370" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265370" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265370"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265370">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265370" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57265370"><li id="tree_57265472" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265472" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265472" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265472"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265472">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265472" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267718" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267718" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267718" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267718" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267718" name="comment_link_57267718" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&cid=57267718" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267718)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267718" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267718); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Z34107">Z34107</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Z34107">( 925136 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267718"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267718"><p>Text wrapping is a "solved" problem, too, but you're still doing it by hand for some reason.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267718">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267718"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267718">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267718" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57265370"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265370">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57265474" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265474" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265474" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265474" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265474" name="comment_link_57265474" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&cid=57265474" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265474)" >While they're at it</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265474" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265474); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Pedestrianwolf">Pedestrianwolf</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Pedestrianwolf">( 1591767 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265474"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265474">..maybe they could also roll back all rounded rectangles they added in v69. Everything is so round it feels like I designed it in my basement.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265474">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265474"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265474">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265474" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57265474"><li id="tree_57265494" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265494" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265494" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265494" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265494" name="comment_link_57265494" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&cid=57265494" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265494)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265494" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265494); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>3</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~ArchieBunker">ArchieBunker</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~ArchieBunker">( 132337 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265494"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265494"><p>Chrome has a major UI re-design? Firefox is going to be pulling some late nights to catch up!</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265494">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265494"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265494">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265494" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li></ul></li><li id="tree_57265568" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265568" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265568" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265568"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265568">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265568" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57265700" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265700" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265700" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265700"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265700">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265700" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57265700"><li id="tree_57266544" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266544" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266544" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266544"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266544">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266544" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57265700"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265700">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57265720" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265720" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265720" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265720" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265720" name="comment_link_57265720" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&cid=57265720" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265720)" >It's also has performance regressions</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265720" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265720); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~SurenEnfiajyan">Suren Enfiajyan</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~SurenEnfiajyan">( 4600031 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265720"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265720">On my Lenovo G570 the latest chrome also has very high CPU usage on <a href="http://slither.io/" title="slither.io" rel="nofollow">slither.io game</a> [slither.io] and the game turns into a slideshow in places with many snakes. Firefox 61 doesn't suffer from the this problem, despite the fact that its slower almost in any regard. But not this time.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265720">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265720"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265720">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265720" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57265798" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265798" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265798" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265798"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265798">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265798" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57265808" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265808" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265808" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265808" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265808" name="comment_link_57265808" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&cid=57265808" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265808)" >BSOD</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265808" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265808); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~jimbrooking">jimbrooking</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~jimbrooking">( 1909170 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265808"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265808">After installing ALL pages I visit are pure black. No text or graphics.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265808">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265808"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265808">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265808" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57265808"><li id="tree_57265962" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265962" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265962" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265962"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265962">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265962" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266788" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266788" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266788" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266788" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266788" name="comment_link_57266788" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&cid=57266788" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266788)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266788" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266788); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~jimbrooking">jimbrooking</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~jimbrooking">( 1909170 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266788"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266788">Fix (Win 7 Home): Uninstall Chrome, delete all browsing date. reinstall Chrome, be dazzled by the curviness.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266788">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266788"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266788">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266788" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57265808"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265808">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57265848" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265848" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265848" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265848"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265848">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265848" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57265872" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265872" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265872" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265872"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265872">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265872" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57265998" class="comment full contain"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265998" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265998" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265998" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265998" name="comment_link_57265998" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&cid=57265998" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265998)" >Can someone summarize the linked article?</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265998" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265998); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>4</a>, Funny)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~kaizendojo">kaizendojo</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~kaizendojo">( 956951 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265998">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @05:07PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&cid=57265998">#57265998</a>)
+ <small> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265998">I upgraded and I can't read it.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265998">
+<span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57265998" class="btn link" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&op=Reply&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265998" onclick="D2.replyTo(57265998); return false;">Reply to This</a> <a href="#" class="comment_share_toggle btn link">Share</a>
+ <div class="comment_share sharethis-0 hide"><span class="au"></span>
+ <a class="janrain t" href="#" data-provider="twitter" data-message="Can someone summarize the linked article? by kaizendojo @slashdot" data-url="https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&cid=57265998" data-title="Can someone summarize the linked article?">twitter</a>
+ <a class="janrain f" href="#" data-provider="facebook" data-message="Can someone summarize the linked article? by kaizendojo" data-url="https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&cid=57265998" data-title="Can someone summarize the linked article?">facebook</a>
+ <a class="janrain l" href="#" data-provider="linkedin" data-message="Can someone summarize the linked article? by kaizendojo" data-url="https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&cid=57265998" data-title="Can someone summarize the linked article?">linkedin</a>
+ <a class="g" href="https://plus.google.com/share?url=https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274%26cid=57265998" onclick="javascript:window.open(this.href,'', 'menubar=no,toolbar=no,resizable=yes,scrollbars=yes,height=600,width=600');return false;"><img src="//www.gstatic.com/images/icons/gplus-16.png" alt="Share on Google+"/></a>
+ </div>
+ <span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57265998" title="Flag this comment as Inappropriate" class="ui-icon flag fright" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&op=flag&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265998" onclick="return false;">Flag as Inappropriate</a>
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265998"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265998">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265998" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266112" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266112" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266112" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266112"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266112">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266112" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266142" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266142" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266142" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266142" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266142" name="comment_link_57266142" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&cid=57266142" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266142)" >See Jeff Probst ...</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266142" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266142); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~CaptainDork">CaptainDork</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~CaptainDork">( 3678879 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266142"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266142"><p>... about this.</p><p>I remember on Survivor®, back in the day, they had a "blurry tit," problem.</p><p>They fixed that by disallowing exposed tits.</p><p>Google should remove the tits from their fonts.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266142">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266142"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266142">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266142" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266314" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266314" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266314" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266314"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266314">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266314" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266398" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266398" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266398" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266398" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266398" name="comment_link_57266398" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&cid=57266398" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266398)" >trivial subdomain hiding</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266398" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266398); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Zaiff+Urgulbunger">Zaiff Urgulbunger</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Zaiff+Urgulbunger">( 591514 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266398"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266398">So this "trivial subdomain hiding" thing... it's a crap idea right?</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266398">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266398"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266398">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266398" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266398"><li id="tree_57267448" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267448" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267448" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267448"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267448">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267448" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57266398"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266398">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266428" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266428" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266428" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266428"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266428">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266428" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266952" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266952" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266952" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266952" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266952" name="comment_link_57266952" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580274&cid=57266952" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266952)" >Here's my take as a Mac user</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266952" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266952); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~DontBeAMoran">DontBeAMoran</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~DontBeAMoran">( 4843879 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266952"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266952"><p>First of all, I really hate these thin fonts. They may look neat on hi-DPI displays but not everyone has one.</p><p>Secondly, the text on the left screen capture looks like it had its pixels hammered to the nearest pixel, which is the typical crappy-looking Microsoft anti-aliasing while the text on the right looks like normal anti-aliased text to me.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266952">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266952"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266952">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266952" class="hide"></li>
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+ <!-- 1x1 story page -->
+ <div id='div-gpt-ad-1x1'><script type='text/javascript'>
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+
+ <!-- footer type=current end -->
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+<!-- html-header type=current begin -->
+
+ <!DOCTYPE html>
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+ <html lang="en">
+ <head>
+ <!-- Render IE9 -->
+ <meta http-equiv="X-UA-Compatible" content="IE=edge,chrome=1">
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+if (window.is_euro_union) {
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+
+ <meta name="description" content="Open .git directories are a bigger cybersecurity problem than many might imagine, at least according to a Czech security researcher who discovered almost 400,000 web pages with an open .git directory possibly exposing a wide variety of data. From a report: Vladimir Smitka began his .git directory od...">
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+ <meta property="og:description" content="Open .git directories are a bigger cybersecurity problem than many might imagine, at least according to a Czech security researcher who discovered almost 400,000 web pages with an open .git directory possibly exposing a wide variety of data. From a report: Vladimir Smitka began his .git directory od...">
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+</menu>
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+function open_menu( trigger, $menu ){
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+ $fhitem.length && user_intent('interest', $fhitem[0]);
+
+ $menu.appendTo(document.body).css({ opacity:0 }).show();
+
+ var right = $fhitem.offset().left + $fhitem.width(),
+ global = $trigger.offset(),
+ local = $menu.offsetParent().offset();
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+ // Ugly IE position hack required:
+ $.browser.msie && IE7.test($.browser.version) && (local.top = 0);
+
+ // pin the menu (horizontally) on-screen
+ global.left = Math.min(global.left, right-$menu.width());
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+function close_menu( trigger, $menu ){
+ $menu.hide();
+ $(trigger).removeClass('trigger');
+ ($CURRENT_MENU===$menu) && ($CURRENT_MENU=false);
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+/* T2 tag context-menu */
+var $TAG_MENU=$('#tag-menu'), NOTNOT=/^!!/;
+
+
+ var user_is_admin = 0;
+
+
+
+$('a[rel=tag]').live('mousedown',function(ea){
+ window.open(this.href);
+ return false;
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+ command = ('!' + $(original_target(ee)).attr("data-tag")).replace(NOTNOT, '');
+ try { Tags.submit(fhitem, command); } catch ( err ) { }
+ return false;
+})
+
+
+
+$('a[rel=tag]').
+ live('mousedown', function( e ){
+
+ return true;
+
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+ if ( !logged_in ) {
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+ addfhfilter(tag);
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+$TAG_MENU.menu({
+ cssNamespace: 'slash',
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+ clickDuration: 300,
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+ context = firehose_settings && firehose_settings.viewtitle;
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+ // Insert the tagname into the menu items where needed.
+ $TAG_MENU.find('span.var-tag').text(tag);
+ $TAG_MENU.find('a.nix').attr('title','not ' + tag);
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+
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+ context && $TAG_MENU.find('span.var-view').text(context);
+
+ open_menu($tag, $TAG_MENU);
+ },
+
+ select: function( e, ui ){
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+ tag = get_tag_name($tag),
+ op = $(ui.select).attr('data-op'),
+ fhitem,
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+
+ switch ( op ) {
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+ addfhfilter(tag);
+ break;
+
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+ command = (op + tag).replace(NOTNOT, '');
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+
+
+
+
+
+
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+</script>
+
+
+
+<!-- SMACKS: BEGIN STORY CONTENT -->
+<div class="container">
+ <!--SMACKS: BEGING CENTER COLUMN -->
+ <div class="main-wrap has-rail-right">
+ <div class="main-content">
+ <div class="grid_24 a2 ">
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+ <a href="" class="btn-close" title="don't show me this again" onclick="closeAnnouncement(); return false;">×</a>
+</div>
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+<script type="text/javascript">
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+ $('#announcement').fadeIn(300);
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+ $('#announcement').fadeOut(300);
+ $.cookie('hide_sitenotice_36', 'true', { path: '/', domain: 'slashdot.org', expires: 1 });
+}
+</script>
+ <article id="firehose-102639752" data-fhid="102639752" data-fhtype="story" class="fhitem fhitem-story article usermode thumbs grid_24">
+ <span class="sd-info-block" style="display: none">
+ <span class="sd-key-firehose-id">102639752</span>
+ <span class="type">story</span>
+
+ </span>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<header>
+
+ <span class="topic" id="topic-102639752">
+ <a href="//tech.slashdot.org/index2.pl?fhfilter=security" onclick="return addfhfilter('security');">
+
+ <img src="//a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/security_64.png" width="64" height="64" alt="Security" title="Security">
+
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+
+ <img src="//a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/internet_64.png" width="64" height="64" alt="The Internet" title="The Internet">
+
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+
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+
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+
+ <img src="//a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/technology_64.png" width="64" height="64" alt="Technology" title="Technology">
+
+ </a>
+ </span>
+
+
+ <h2 class="story">
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <span id="title-102639752" class="story-title"> <a href="//tech.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1954253/400000-websites-vulnerable-through-exposed-git-directories">400,000 Websites Vulnerable Through Exposed<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.git Directories</a> <span class=" no extlnk"><a class="story-sourcelnk" href="https://www.scmagazine.com/home/news/400000-websites-vulnerable-through-exposed-git-directories/" title="External link - https://www.scmagazine.com/home/news/400000-websites-vulnerable-through-exposed-git-directories/" target="_blank"> (scmagazine.com) </a></span></span>
+
+
+
+ <!--<span class="comments commentcnt-102639752" >32</span>-->
+
+
+
+ <!-- comment bubble -->
+
+ <span class="comment-bubble"><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1954253/400000-websites-vulnerable-through-exposed-git-directories#comments" title="">32</a></span>
+
+ </h2>
+ <div class="details" id="details-102639752">
+ <span class="story-details">
+ <span class="story-views">
+ <span class="sodify" onclick="firehose_set_options('color', 'red')" title="Filter Firehose to entries rated red or better"></span><span class="icon-beaker pop1 " alt="Popularity" title="Filter Firehose to entries rated red or better" onclick="firehose_set_options('color', 'red')"><span></span></span>
+ </span>
+ </span>
+ <span class="story-byline">
+
+
+ Posted
+ by
+
+
+
+ msmash
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <time id="fhtime-102639752" datetime="on Thursday September 06, 2018 @04:00PM">on Thursday September 06, 2018 @04:00PM</time>
+
+
+ from the <span class="dept-text">security-woes</span> dept.
+
+ </span>
+ </div>
+</header>
+
+<div class="body" id="fhbody-102639752">
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <div id="text-102639752" class="p">
+
+
+ Open .git directories are a bigger cybersecurity problem than many might imagine, at least according to a Czech security researcher who <a href="https://www.scmagazine.com/home/news/400000-websites-vulnerable-through-exposed-git-directories/">discovered almost 400,000 web pages with an open .git directory</a> possibly exposing a wide variety of data. From a report:<i> Vladimir Smitka began his .git directory odyssey in July when he began looking at Czech websites to find how many were improperly configured and allow access to their .git folders within the file versions repository. Open .git directories are a particularly dangerous issue, he said, because they can contain a great deal of sensitive information. "Information about the website's structure, and sometimes you can get very sensitive data such as database passwords, API keys, development IDE settings, and so on. However, this data shouldn't be stored in the repository, but in previous scans of various security issues, I have found many developers that do not follow these best practices," Smitka wrote. Smitka queried 230 million websites to discover the 390,000 allowing access to their .git directories. The vast majority of the websites with open directories had a .com TLD with .net, .de, .org and uk comprising most of the others.</i><br>
+
+ </div>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ </div>
+ <aside class="grid_24 view_mode">
+
+ <div class="units-12 story-detail-tags">
+ <span id="sharethis-102639752" class="">
+
+
+
+
+
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+
+ <ul id="commentlisting" class="d2">
+ <li id="tree_57265676" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265676" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265676" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265676"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265676">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265676" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57265676"><li id="tree_57265702" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265702" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265702" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265702" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265702" name="comment_link_57265702" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580412&cid=57265702" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265702)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265702" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265702); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>, Informative)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~MidSpeck">MidSpeck</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~MidSpeck">( 1516577 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265702"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265702"><p>^/.*/\.git/<br>Protect git repositories in all subdirectories as well.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265702">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265702"></div>
+
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+ <li id="hiddens_57265702" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57265706" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265706" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265706" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265706"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265706">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265706" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57265706"><li id="tree_57265724" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265724" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265724" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265724"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265724">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265724" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57265724"><li id="tree_57265824" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265824" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265824" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265824"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265824">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265824" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57265724"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580412&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265724">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="hidestring_57265706"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580412&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265706">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57267314" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267314" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267314" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267314" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267314" name="comment_link_57267314" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580412&cid=57267314" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267314)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267314" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267314); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~jrumney">jrumney</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~jrumney">( 197329 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267314"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267314">Why stop there? Are there any dot files/directories that need to be served over HTTP?</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267314">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267314"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267314">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267314" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267598" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267598" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267598" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267598" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267598" name="comment_link_57267598" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580412&cid=57267598" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267598)" >Re: .htaccess</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267598" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267598); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>3</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~spongman">spongman</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~spongman">( 182339 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267598"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267598"><p>Why doesn't Apache block all '.'-prefixed directories by default?</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267598">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267598"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267598">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267598" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57265676"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580412&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265676">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57265748" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265748" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265748" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265748"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265748">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265748" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57265748"><li id="tree_57265928" class="comment full contain"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265928" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265928" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265928" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265928" name="comment_link_57265928" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580412&cid=57265928" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265928)" >Re:https://slashdot.org/.git</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265928" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265928); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>4</a>, Informative)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~ls671">ls671</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~ls671">( 1122017 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265928">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @04:52PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580412&cid=57265928">#57265928</a>)
+ <small><a href="http://slashdot.org/" title="http://slashdot.org/" class="user_homepage_display">Homepage</a> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265928"><p>Slashdot is still using CVS try <a href="https://slashdot.org/CVS/" title="slashdot.org">https://slashdot.org/CVS/</a> [slashdot.org]</p><p>you will see, it works!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265928">
+<span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57265928" class="btn link" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580412&op=Reply&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265928" onclick="D2.replyTo(57265928); return false;">Reply to This</a> <span class="ind"></span><a class="btn link" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580412&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&cid=57265748" onclick="return D2.selectParent(57265748)">Parent</a> <a href="#" class="comment_share_toggle btn link">Share</a>
+ <div class="comment_share sharethis-0 hide"><span class="au"></span>
+ <a class="janrain t" href="#" data-provider="twitter" data-message="Re:https://slashdot.org/.git by ls671 @slashdot" data-url="https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580412&cid=57265928" data-title="Re:https://slashdot.org/.git">twitter</a>
+ <a class="janrain f" href="#" data-provider="facebook" data-message="Re:https://slashdot.org/.git by ls671" data-url="https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580412&cid=57265928" data-title="Re:https://slashdot.org/.git">facebook</a>
+ <a class="janrain l" href="#" data-provider="linkedin" data-message="Re:https://slashdot.org/.git by ls671" data-url="https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580412&cid=57265928" data-title="Re:https://slashdot.org/.git">linkedin</a>
+ <a class="g" href="https://plus.google.com/share?url=https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580412%26cid=57265928" onclick="javascript:window.open(this.href,'', 'menubar=no,toolbar=no,resizable=yes,scrollbars=yes,height=600,width=600');return false;"><img src="//www.gstatic.com/images/icons/gplus-16.png" alt="Share on Google+"/></a>
+ </div>
+ <span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57265928" title="Flag this comment as Inappropriate" class="ui-icon flag fright" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580412&op=flag&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265928" onclick="return false;">Flag as Inappropriate</a>
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265928"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265928">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265928" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li></ul></li><li id="tree_57265754" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265754" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265754" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265754" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265754" name="comment_link_57265754" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580412&cid=57265754" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265754)" >Your central git repo ...</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265754" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265754); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>1</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Qbertino">Qbertino</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Qbertino">( 265505 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265754"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265754"><p>... belongs behind ssh or, at least, behind http access and SSL.<br>If I catch you doing otherwise for anything other than FOSS software I'll smack you. Hard.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265754">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265754"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265754">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265754" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57265754"><li id="tree_57265854" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265854" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265854" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265854"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265854">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265854" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57265868" class="comment full contain"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265868" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265868" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265868" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265868" name="comment_link_57265868" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580412&cid=57265868" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265868)" >Re:Your central git repo ...</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265868" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265868); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>4</a>, Informative)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~tlhIngan">tlhIngan</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~tlhIngan">( 30335 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265868"> <<a href="mailto:%5Bten.frow%5D+%5Bta%5D+%5Btodhsals%5D">[ten.frow] [ta] [todhsals]</a>>
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @04:41PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580412&cid=57265868">#57265868</a>)
+ <small> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265868"><blockquote><div><p>... belongs behind ssh or, at least, behind http access and SSL.<br>If I catch you doing otherwise for anything other than FOSS software I'll smack you. Hard.</p></div></blockquote><p>And it probably is. The thing is, the website owners are using git to version control and deploy their website (not a bad idea). So they develop their web site, push it to the central git repo, and whenever they need to go live, they just do a "git pull" on the webserver and it'll pull down the latest version of the website.</p><p>Problem is, they forget about the hidden<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.git directory git makes that stores all sorts of useful information and with a little persistence, allow you access to the raw source code since you can access the individual git objects. (Or maybe even clone it using git).</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265868">
+<span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57265868" class="btn link" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580412&op=Reply&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265868" onclick="D2.replyTo(57265868); return false;">Reply to This</a> <span class="ind"></span><a class="btn link" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580412&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&cid=57265754" onclick="return D2.selectParent(57265754)">Parent</a> <a href="#" class="comment_share_toggle btn link">Share</a>
+ <div class="comment_share sharethis-0 hide"><span class="au"></span>
+ <a class="janrain t" href="#" data-provider="twitter" data-message="Re:Your central git repo ... by tlhIngan @slashdot" data-url="https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580412&cid=57265868" data-title="Re:Your central git repo ...">twitter</a>
+ <a class="janrain f" href="#" data-provider="facebook" data-message="Re:Your central git repo ... by tlhIngan" data-url="https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580412&cid=57265868" data-title="Re:Your central git repo ...">facebook</a>
+ <a class="janrain l" href="#" data-provider="linkedin" data-message="Re:Your central git repo ... by tlhIngan" data-url="https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580412&cid=57265868" data-title="Re:Your central git repo ...">linkedin</a>
+ <a class="g" href="https://plus.google.com/share?url=https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580412%26cid=57265868" onclick="javascript:window.open(this.href,'', 'menubar=no,toolbar=no,resizable=yes,scrollbars=yes,height=600,width=600');return false;"><img src="//www.gstatic.com/images/icons/gplus-16.png" alt="Share on Google+"/></a>
+ </div>
+ <span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57265868" title="Flag this comment as Inappropriate" class="ui-icon flag fright" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580412&op=flag&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265868" onclick="return false;">Flag as Inappropriate</a>
+</div>
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+ <li id="hiddens_57265868" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57265868"><li id="tree_57267330" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267330" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267330" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267330" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267330" name="comment_link_57267330" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580412&cid=57267330" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267330)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267330" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267330); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~jrumney">jrumney</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~jrumney">( 197329 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267330"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267330">I do this, it is very convenient for deploying updates to the site. But I always put the web interface into a subdirectory, and only configure the web server to see that so the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.git directory is not visible over HTTP. And dotfiles and directories are blocked in the webserver config for extra protection against accidental inclusion of invisible files.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267330">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267330"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267330">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267330" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li></ul></li><li id="hidestring_57265754"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580412&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265754">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57265760" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265760" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265760" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265760"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265760">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265760" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57265776" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265776" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265776" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265776"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265776">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265776" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57265820" class="comment full contain"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265820" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265820" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265820" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265820" name="comment_link_57265820" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580412&cid=57265820" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265820)" >reheating yesterday's food</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265820" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265820); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>3</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Tsolias">Tsolias</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Tsolias">( 2813011 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265820">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @04:32PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580412&cid=57265820">#57265820</a>)
+ <small> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265820"><p>just an article from 2015 <a href="https://en.internetwache.org/dont-publicly-expose-git-or-how-we-downloaded-your-websites-sourcecode-an-analysis-of-alexas-1m-28-07-2015/" title="internetwache.org">https://en.internetwache.org/d...</a> [internetwache.org]</p><p>I can give you also next year's article about<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.file vulnerabilities. (spoiler alert) <a href="https://en.internetwache.org/scanning-the-alexa-top-1m-for-ds-store-files-12-03-2018/" title="internetwache.org">https://en.internetwache.org/s...</a> [internetwache.org]</p></div>
+ </div>
+
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+</ul>
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+
+<ul id="group_57265826">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265826" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57265826"><li id="tree_57265832" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265832" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265832" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265832" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265832" name="comment_link_57265832" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580412&cid=57265832" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265832)" >KKK</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265832" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265832); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Tsolias">Tsolias</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Tsolias">( 2813011 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265832"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265832"><p><div class="quote"><p>Thats what you get on hiring those bootcamp "graduates"</p></div><p>Kode w/ Karlie Kloss, like it or not.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265832">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265832"></div>
+
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+ <li id="hiddens_57265832" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
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+</li></ul></li><li id="tree_57265838" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265838" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265838" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265838"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265838">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265838" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57265968" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265968" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265968" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265968" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265968" name="comment_link_57265968" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580412&cid=57265968" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265968)" >Alternate headline: 99.8% websites are OK</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265968" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265968); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~jmichaelg">jmichaelg</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~jmichaelg">( 148257 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265968"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265968"><p>230 million websites. 400k poorly configured. 4*10^5/2.3*10^8 is less than 0.2% of websites surveyed screwed this up.</p><p>400k is a big number but it's good to know most developers aren't that stupid on this issue.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265968">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265968"></div>
+
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+</ul>
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+<div id="comment_status_57266046" class="commentstatus"></div>
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+
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+
+<ul id="group_57266046">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266046" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57265968"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580412&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265968">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266024" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266024" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266024" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266024"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266024">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266024" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266024"><li id="tree_57266638" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266638" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266638" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266638" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266638" name="comment_link_57266638" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580412&cid=57266638" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266638)" >Re: yarn dist</a>
+
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~TimMD909">TimMD909</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~TimMD909">( 260285 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266638"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266638">... Equifax types for free security tests from 3rd parties and press coverage, presumably...</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266638">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266638"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266638">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266638" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266028" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266028" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266028" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266028" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266028" name="comment_link_57266028" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580412&cid=57266028" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266028)" >So?</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266028" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266028); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~cshark">cshark</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~cshark">( 673578 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266028"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266028"><p>An open git directory will be everything you need to reconstruct the site, more often than not from the same server you're targeting. Scary. Database servers are rarely open. Short of some serious hacking, there isn't a lot you're going to be able to do with this stuff once you've obtained the information you're waving around here.</p><p>Until such time as I see hackers actually logging in with this information and defacing github, I'm going to remain unconvinced of the severity of this one.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266028">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266028"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266028">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266028" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266028"><li id="tree_57266128" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266128" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266128" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266128" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266128" name="comment_link_57266128" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580412&cid=57266128" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266128)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266128" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266128); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~OrangeTide">OrangeTide</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~OrangeTide">( 124937 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266128"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266128"><p>My website's<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.git directories are open intentionally. Makes for convenient mirroring and viewing of archives without having to hope and pray wayback machine picked up my obscure website.</p><p>I'm not too worried. It's just data on the filesystem, it's not executing programs. And the data is not supposed to contain any secrets. If it ever does then I better rewrite my git history.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266128">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266128"></div>
+
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+<div id="comment_status_57266554" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266554" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266554" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266554" name="comment_link_57266554" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580412&cid=57266554" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266554)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266554" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266554); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>1</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span>Anonymous Coward</span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266554"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266554"><p>The most likely actual security implication is hard coded keys to 3rd party APIs.</p><p>Not that this is an inevitable threat, itâ(TM)s just something I could see being inadvertently exposed and useful without much additional effort.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266554">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266554"></div>
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+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266554"><li id="tree_57266652" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266652" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266652" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266652" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266652" name="comment_link_57266652" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580412&cid=57266652" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266652)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266652" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266652); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>1</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Orrin+Bloquy">Orrin Bloquy</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Orrin+Bloquy">( 898571 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266652"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266652"><p><div class="quote"><p>itâ(TM)s</p></div><p>Clear something up, are you typing curly quotes/apostrophes on purpose or do you have your browser configured to automatically do that.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266652">
+
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+
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+ <li id="hiddens_57266652" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266650" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
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+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266650" name="comment_link_57266650" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580412&cid=57266650" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266650)" >Re:</a>
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~jonwil">jonwil</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~jonwil">( 467024 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266650"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266650"><p>What about if that<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.git folder (and the website's source code) included private keys for stuff. Or credentials/API keys for 3rd party services. Or credentials for database and other servers.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266650">
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+ <title>'I've Seen the Future of Consumer AI, and it Doesn't Have One' - Slashdot</title>
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+ <meta property="og:title" content="'I've Seen the Future of Consumer AI, and it Doesn't Have One' - Slashdot">
+ <meta property="og:description" content="Andrew Orlowski of The Register recounts all the gadgets supercharged with AI that he came across at IFA tradeshow last week -- and wonders what value AI brought to the table. He writes: I didn't see a blockchain toothbrush at IFA in Berlin last week, but I'm sure there was one lurking about somewhe...">
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+
+
+ <span id="title-102639856" class="story-title"> <a href="//tech.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/205221/ive-seen-the-future-of-consumer-ai-and-it-doesnt-have-one">'I've Seen the Future of Consumer AI, and it Doesn't Have One'</a> <span class=" no extlnk"><a class="story-sourcelnk" href="https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/09/05/consumer_ai_ifa_2018_roundup/" title="External link - https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/09/05/consumer_ai_ifa_2018_roundup/" target="_blank"> (theregister.co.uk) </a></span></span>
+
+
+
+ <!--<span class="comments commentcnt-102639856" >97</span>-->
+
+
+
+ <!-- comment bubble -->
+
+ <span class="comment-bubble"><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/205221/ive-seen-the-future-of-consumer-ai-and-it-doesnt-have-one#comments" title="">97</a></span>
+
+ </h2>
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+ <span class="story-byline">
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+ Posted
+ by
+
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+
+ msmash
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <time id="fhtime-102639856" datetime="on Thursday September 06, 2018 @04:40PM">on Thursday September 06, 2018 @04:40PM</time>
+
+
+ from the <span class="dept-text">there-is-no-spoon</span> dept.
+
+ </span>
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+
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+ <div id="text-102639856" class="p">
+
+
+ Andrew Orlowski of <em>The Register</em> recounts all the gadgets <a href="https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/09/05/consumer_ai_ifa_2018_roundup/">supercharged with AI that he came across at IFA tradeshow last week -- and wonders what value AI brought to the table</a>. He writes:<i> I didn't see a blockchain toothbrush at IFA in Berlin last week, but I'm sure there was one lurking about somewhere. With 30 vast halls to cover, I didn't look too hard for it. But I did see many things almost as tragic that no one could miss -- AI being squeezed into almost every conceivable bit of consumer electronics. But none were convincing. If ever there was a solution looking for a problem, it's ramming AI into gadgets to show of a company's machine learning prowess. For the consumer it adds unreliability, cost and complexity, and the annoyance of being prompted. <br> <br> [...] Back to LG, which takes 2018's prize for sticking AI into a superfluous gadget. The centrepiece of its AI efforts this year is a robot, ClOi. Put Google Assistant or Alexa on wheels, and you have ClOi. I asked the booth person what exactly ClOi could do to be told "it can take notes for your shopping list." Why wasn't this miracle of the Fourth Industrial Revolution let loose on the LG floor? I wondered -- a question answered by this account of ClOi's debut at CES in January. Clearly things haven't improved much -- this robot buddy was kept indoors.</i><br>
+
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+ data-janrain-url="https://tech.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/205221/ive-seen-the-future-of-consumer-ai-and-it-doesnt-have-one"
+ data-janrain-title="'I've Seen the Future of Consumer AI, and it Doesn't Have One'"
+ data-janrain-message="'I've Seen the Future of Consumer AI, and it Doesn't Have One' @slashdot"
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+ <h3><a title="Previous story" href="//tech.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1954253/400000-websites-vulnerable-through-exposed-git-directories?sdsrc=prev">←</a></h3>
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+ <h3>You may like to read:</h3>
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+ <h3><a title="Next story" href="//news.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1558206/computer-chips-are-still-made-in-usa?sdsrc=next">→</a></h3>
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+ <div class="grid_6">
+ <span class="c">
+ <a href="//tech.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1954253/400000-websites-vulnerable-through-exposed-git-directories?sdsrc=prev">400,000 Websites Vulnerable Through Exposed<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.git Directories </a>
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+
+ <ul id="commentlisting" class="d2">
+ <li id="tree_57265886" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265886" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265886" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265886"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265886">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265886" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57265890" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265890" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265890" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265890"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265890">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265890" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57265934" class="comment full contain"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265934" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265934" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265934" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265934" name="comment_link_57265934" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57265934" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265934)" >Stupid industry fads</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265934" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265934); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>5</a>, Funny)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Spy+Handler">Spy Handler</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Spy+Handler">( 822350 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265934">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @04:53PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57265934">#57265934</a>)
+ <small><a href="http://asdf.com/" title="http://asdf.com/" class="user_homepage_display">Homepage</a>
+<a href="//slashdot.org/~Spy+Handler/journal/" title="Wednesday March 09, 2005 @03:02AM" class="user_journal_display">Journal</a> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265934"><p>3D printer in every home will fundamentally change human society</p><p>IoT internet connected belt buckles and toothbrushes will take over the world</p><p>AI will revolutionize consumer electronics</p><p>Net PC from Sun will dominate the computer industry (this one is really old)</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265934">
+<span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57265934" class="btn link" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&op=Reply&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265934" onclick="D2.replyTo(57265934); return false;">Reply to This</a> <a href="#" class="comment_share_toggle btn link">Share</a>
+ <div class="comment_share sharethis-0 hide"><span class="au"></span>
+ <a class="janrain t" href="#" data-provider="twitter" data-message="Stupid industry fads by Spy Handler @slashdot" data-url="https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57265934" data-title="Stupid industry fads">twitter</a>
+ <a class="janrain f" href="#" data-provider="facebook" data-message="Stupid industry fads by Spy Handler" data-url="https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57265934" data-title="Stupid industry fads">facebook</a>
+ <a class="janrain l" href="#" data-provider="linkedin" data-message="Stupid industry fads by Spy Handler" data-url="https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57265934" data-title="Stupid industry fads">linkedin</a>
+ <a class="g" href="https://plus.google.com/share?url=https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424%26cid=57265934" onclick="javascript:window.open(this.href,'', 'menubar=no,toolbar=no,resizable=yes,scrollbars=yes,height=600,width=600');return false;"><img src="//www.gstatic.com/images/icons/gplus-16.png" alt="Share on Google+"/></a>
+ </div>
+ <span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57265934" title="Flag this comment as Inappropriate" class="ui-icon flag fright" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&op=flag&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265934" onclick="return false;">Flag as Inappropriate</a>
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265934"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265934">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265934" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57265934"><li id="tree_57265952" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265952" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265952" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265952"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265952">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265952" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57265988" class="comment full contain"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265988" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265988" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265988" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265988" name="comment_link_57265988" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57265988" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265988)" >Re:Stupid industry fads</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265988" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265988); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>5</a>, Insightful)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~ShanghaiBill">ShanghaiBill</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~ShanghaiBill">( 739463 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265988">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @05:05PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57265988">#57265988</a>)
+ <small> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265988"><p>Excessive hype is always followed by a trough of disillusionment. But as the TOD fades, plenty of mature, practical applications are likely to emerge. The technological naysayers are usually even more wrong than the hypesters.</p><p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hype_cycle" title="wikipedia.org">Hype cycle</a> [wikipedia.org]</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265988">
+<span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57265988" class="btn link" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&op=Reply&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265988" onclick="D2.replyTo(57265988); return false;">Reply to This</a> <span class="ind"></span><a class="btn link" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&cid=57265934" onclick="return D2.selectParent(57265934)">Parent</a> <a href="#" class="comment_share_toggle btn link">Share</a>
+ <div class="comment_share sharethis-0 hide"><span class="au"></span>
+ <a class="janrain t" href="#" data-provider="twitter" data-message="Re:Stupid industry fads by ShanghaiBill @slashdot" data-url="https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57265988" data-title="Re:Stupid industry fads">twitter</a>
+ <a class="janrain f" href="#" data-provider="facebook" data-message="Re:Stupid industry fads by ShanghaiBill" data-url="https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57265988" data-title="Re:Stupid industry fads">facebook</a>
+ <a class="janrain l" href="#" data-provider="linkedin" data-message="Re:Stupid industry fads by ShanghaiBill" data-url="https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57265988" data-title="Re:Stupid industry fads">linkedin</a>
+ <a class="g" href="https://plus.google.com/share?url=https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424%26cid=57265988" onclick="javascript:window.open(this.href,'', 'menubar=no,toolbar=no,resizable=yes,scrollbars=yes,height=600,width=600');return false;"><img src="//www.gstatic.com/images/icons/gplus-16.png" alt="Share on Google+"/></a>
+ </div>
+ <span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57265988" title="Flag this comment as Inappropriate" class="ui-icon flag fright" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&op=flag&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265988" onclick="return false;">Flag as Inappropriate</a>
+</div>
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+<div id="replyto_57265988"></div>
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+ <li id="hiddens_57265988" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57265988"><li id="tree_57266056" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266056" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266056" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266056" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266056" name="comment_link_57266056" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266056" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266056)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266056" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266056); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~fahrbot-bot">fahrbot-bot</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~fahrbot-bot">( 874524 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266056"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266056"><p><div class="quote"><p>Excessive hype is always followed by a trough of disillusionment.</p></div><p>
+<b>Pro Tip:</b> Get out in front and mention this *before* taking your date home. Better for her to hear it from you than her working it out on her own<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266056">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266056"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266056">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266056" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266114" class="comment full contain"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266114" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266114" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266114" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266114" name="comment_link_57266114" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266114" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266114)" >Re:Stupid industry fads</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266114" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266114); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>4</a>, Insightful)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~CaptainDork">CaptainDork</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~CaptainDork">( 3678879 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266114">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @05:33PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266114">#57266114</a>)
+ <small> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266114"><p>If smart phones and tablets are any indicator<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...</p><p>AI, too, is an evolutionary dead end.</p><p>It's a buzz word with a vacuous definition.</p></div>
+ </div>
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+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266114">
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+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266716" name="comment_link_57266716" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266716" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266716)" >Re:</a>
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Q-Hack!">Q-Hack!</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Q-Hack!">( 37846 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266716"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266716"><p>Not a lot different than back in the 1950's when the trend was to create all manor of odd gadgets to make life easier. Those deemed useful are still around... The rest can be found in junk markets around the world. But hey, the Cracker-barrel's of the future will still need stuff to decorate their walls with.</p></div>
+ </div>
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~CaptainDork">CaptainDork</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~CaptainDork">( 3678879 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267214"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267214"><p>In reaction to your sig:</p><p>I recently re-read "Nineteen Eighty-Four," because my first reading was so long ago.</p><p>Good read, but what a goddam depressing book!</p></div>
+ </div>
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+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267214">
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+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266236" name="comment_link_57266236" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266236" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266236)" >Re:</a>
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+ <span id="comment_score_57266236" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266236); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~magzteel">magzteel</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~magzteel">( 5013587 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266236"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266236"><p><div class="quote"><p>Excessive hype is always followed by a trough of disillusionment. But as the TOD fades, plenty of mature, practical applications are likely to emerge. The technological naysayers are usually even more wrong than the hypesters.</p><p> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hype_cycle" title="wikipedia.org">Hype cycle</a> [wikipedia.org] </p></div><p>Back in the early PC days, when you had to hook up a cassette player to load your application, and then another one to load your data, we used to tell people they could store recipes on their TRS-80 personal computer. This was not much of a productivity enhancer. I'm sure based on this experience some people would have thought PC's were useless and had no future.</p><p>And then floppy disks and spreadsheets were invented.</p></div>
+ </div>
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+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266236">
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+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266566" name="comment_link_57266566" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266566" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266566)" >Re:</a>
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~jythie">jythie</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~jythie">( 914043 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266566"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266566">It is really difficult to say if the naysayers or hypesters are more often right or wrong. One problem with looking back at negative guesses is we only really remember the ones that turned out to be wrong since the evidence is in modern use today, while all the naysayers that we right, well, the things they were right about faded into obscurity.</div>
+ </div>
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+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267460" name="comment_link_57267460" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57267460" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267460)" >Re:</a>
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+ <span id="comment_score_57267460" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267460); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~ShanghaiBill">ShanghaiBill</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~ShanghaiBill">( 739463 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267460"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267460"><p>You only count as a "true" naysayer if you are negative about an overhyped trend with groupies and fanbois, not about an obviously stupid idea.</p><p>The naysayers were right about the Segway, but that was an easy target, since it reached peak hype before it had even been shown to the public.</p><p>Other tech failures were Iridium, Zune, Pebble, Juicero. But none of these were hyped as world changing technology.</p></div>
+ </div>
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+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267460">
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+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267478" name="comment_link_57267478" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57267478" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267478)" >Re:</a>
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+ <span id="comment_score_57267478" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267478); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~ShanghaiBill">ShanghaiBill</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~ShanghaiBill">( 739463 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267478"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267478"><p><div class="quote"><p>In the long term only 1/20 companies really make it.</p></div><p>Success of a technology is rarely correlated with the success of particular companies. Silicon Valley is littered with plaques marking the graves of semiconductor pioneering companies. Few of them survived. Yet semiconductors have been the greatest technological success since fire was tamed.</p><p>For another example, look at aviation. It took 66 years to go from Kitty Hawk to the Sea of Tranquility. Yet how many airlines made money during those years? Almost none.</p></div>
+ </div>
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+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267478">
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+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265994" name="comment_link_57265994" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57265994" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265994)" >Re:</a>
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~atherophage">atherophage</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~atherophage">( 2481624 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265994"></span>
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+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265994">Prognosticators have been wrong before. While it is easy to poke fun at the unusual who knows, perhaps in a few years dental floss will come with AI. The thought of not having AI floss will be unthinkable.</div>
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+ <span id="comment_score_57266022" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266022); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>3</a>, Interesting)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span>Anonymous Coward</span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266022"></span>
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+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266022"><p>As much as I am a nerd, I blame "nerds" for this. There is this whole new fad of being a "techie", watching Big Bang Theory, owning a Tesla, and generally being absolutely ignorant about real science, technology and math while "pretending" to be a nerd. I used "pretending" but there may be some legitimate attempt but it is hard to tell if someone is a fake nerd or just a stupid nerd. I think this trend partly follows from women trying to follow the (tech) money and then men trying to follow the women.</p><p>This<span class="substr"> </span></p></div>
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+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266692" name="comment_link_57266692" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266692" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266692)" >Re:</a>
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+ <span id="comment_score_57266692" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266692); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~AbRASiON">AbRASiON</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~AbRASiON">( 589899 )</a></span></a> <a href="/faq/subscriptions.shtml#subscription_other_advantages">*</a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266692"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266692"><p>I don't know that there's a lot of these people but they do exist, for certain yes. The 'watching big bang theory' is the kicker, once someone admits watching that, you know they're very unlikely to be a 'proper nerd' for lack of a better term.</p><p>Considering they only have partial skills in technology then, we can likely guess, if they work in the industry, they're probably higher on the ladder than us and paid more though<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:/ like most management / consultant types.</p></div>
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+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266126" name="comment_link_57266126" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266126" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266126)" >Re:</a>
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+ <span id="comment_score_57266126" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266126); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>3</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~JMJimmy">JMJimmy</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~JMJimmy">( 2036122 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
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+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266126"><p>The thing no one can consider is time.</p><p>"AI" being jammed into things now is probably lame, awkward, and of very limited use. Much like computers were back in the punch card days with devices that. Less than 100 years later we've got computers in our pocket. We are in the early days of AI - we'll look back on it decades from now as we do with things like: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp7MHZY2ADI" title="youtube.com">https://www.youtube.com/watch?...<span class="substr"> </span></a> [youtube.com] </p><p>This article is just another example of someone who can't see past their nose to the road ahead and the million differen</p></div>
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+</li><li id="hidestring_57266126"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266126">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266226" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
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+ <div id="comment_top_57266458" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266458" name="comment_link_57266458" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266458" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266458)" >Re:</a>
+
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+ <span id="comment_score_57266458" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266458); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~AHuxley">AHuxley</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~AHuxley">( 892839 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266458"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266458">Good for a few workers over the decade of hype.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266458">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266458"></div>
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+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267434" name="comment_link_57267434" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57267434" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267434)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267434" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267434); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~m00sh">m00sh</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~m00sh">( 2538182 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267434"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267434"><p><div class="quote"><p>3D printer in every home will fundamentally change human society</p><p>IoT internet connected belt buckles and toothbrushes will take over the world</p><p>AI will revolutionize consumer electronics</p><p>Net PC from Sun will dominate the computer industry (this one is really old)</p></div><p>I don't know about home but it plays a big part in manufacturing. There are very specialized and successful medical companies that use 3d printing.
+
+</p><p>Don't know about belt buckles but fitbit, apple watch, garmin has been worth billions of dollars and fundamentally changed the way a lot of people do things.
+
+</p><p>I don't know about NetPC but what about the cloud? The hype that we would all put all our stuff in the cloud blah blah actually materialized. There are many companies who own no hardware except the dev la<span class="substr"> </span></p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267434">
+
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+</ul>
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+ <div id="comment_top_57267440" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267440" name="comment_link_57267440" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57267440" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267440)" >Re:</a>
+
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~lokedhs">lokedhs</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~lokedhs">( 672255 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267440"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267440">Net PC was not from Sun. I should I know, I worked for them during that era. What they had was JavaStation, which was a neat idea but ahead of its time. That concept is now realised by the Chromebook.
+
+Net PC was a Compaq thing, if I recall correctly. However, Wikipedia tells me it was Oracle, so perhaps the Compaq device was called something else.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267440">
+
+</div>
+</div>
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+</li><li id="hidestring_57265934"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265934">3 replies</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57265938" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
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+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266188" name="comment_link_57266188" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266188" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266188)" >Re:</a>
+
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~bobbied">bobbied</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~bobbied">( 2522392 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266188"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266188"><p><div class="quote"><p>Example: Apple will go under...any day now....since 1984</p></div><p>But they've been totally correct in not predicting the "Year of the Linux Desktop" has come. </p><p>You win a few and lose a few. </p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266188">
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+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266582" name="comment_link_57266582" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266582" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266582)" >Re:</a>
+
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~jythie">jythie</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~jythie">( 914043 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266582"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266582">*nod* to expand on this.... true, Apple never did go under. But look how many computer companies started up around the same time and did. It is fun to look at the successes and compare them to the naysayers who were wrong, but the ones who were right, well, their predictions did not leave much to talk about today.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266582">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266582"></div>
+
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+<div id="comment_57265944" class="cw">
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+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266018" name="comment_link_57266018" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266018" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266018)" >Re:Now With AI!</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266018" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266018); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>5</a>, Informative)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~ShanghaiBill">ShanghaiBill</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~ShanghaiBill">( 739463 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266018">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @05:13PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266018">#57266018</a>)
+ <small> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266018"><p><div class="quote"><p>Gee, I could have sworn we already HAD the AI craze back in the late 80s. Or was it early 90s?</p></div><p>It was the 1980s. It had faded long before 1990.</p><p>But there was an earlier AI craze in the 1960s, based on perceptrons. That faded by 1970.</p><p>The 1980 AI hype cycle was driven by "expert systems" and "Lisp machines".</p><p>The latest cycle started in 2006 with the publication of the <a href="http://science.sciencemag.org/content/313/5786/504" title="sciencemag.org">seminal paper on deep learning</a> [sciencemag.org], and has so far lasted far longer than any previous AI hype cycle.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
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+ <div class="comment_share sharethis-0 hide"><span class="au"></span>
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+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266132" name="comment_link_57266132" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266132" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266132)" >Re:</a>
+
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+ <span id="comment_score_57266132" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266132); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~CaptainDork">CaptainDork</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~CaptainDork">( 3678879 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266132"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266132"><p>I go way back, too.</p><p>AI had an unambiguous definition that eroded under stress because the industry came to the realization that the "I" part (intelligence) used the human mind as the high bar.</p><p>The second epiphany came when no one could fabricate an AI that would simply refuse to cooperate if Facebook was unreachable.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
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+
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+ <span id="comment_score_57266238" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266238); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Pseudonym">Pseudonym</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Pseudonym">( 62607 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266238"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266238"><p>In the 90s it was all "knowledge-based systems" and in the noughties it was all "intelligent agents".</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266238">
+
+</div>
+</div>
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+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266390" name="comment_link_57266390" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266390" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266390)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266390" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266390); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~ShanghaiBill">ShanghaiBill</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~ShanghaiBill">( 739463 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266390"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266390"><p><div class="quote"><p>In the 90s it was all "knowledge-based systems" and in the noughties it was all "intelligent agents".</p></div><p>Yes, but those generated far less hype than what happened in the 60s, 80s, and teenies.</p><p>The big things in the 90s and noughties were the web and e-commerce.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266390">
+
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+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266462" name="comment_link_57266462" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266462" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266462)" >Re:</a>
+
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~CWCheese">CWCheese</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~CWCheese">( 729272 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266462"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266462">Thanks for the <i>Lisp</i> reference! I fondly remember learning Lisp in an AI class during college in the 80s. Actually enjoyed programming Lisp because it could be so terse and do so much very rapidly. However, we really had no good applications to use for it, other than having an application learn the best way to win a chess game. I chose not to pursue AI as a career and haven't suffered for that.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266462">
+
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+
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~ShanghaiBill">ShanghaiBill</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~ShanghaiBill">( 739463 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267442"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267442"><p><div class="quote"><p>I chose not to pursue AI as a career and haven't suffered for that.</p></div><p>Learning Lisp would not have helped you. Modern AI uses mostly Python based libraries such as Tensorflow and PyTorch. C++ is used for performance critical stuff. Nobody uses Lisp for AI anymore. It was a dead end.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267442">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267442"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267442">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267442" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li></ul></li><li id="tree_57267462" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267462" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267462" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267462" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267462" name="comment_link_57267462" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57267462" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267462)" >Fifth Generation</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267462" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267462); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~mcswell">mcswell</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~mcswell">( 1102107 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267462"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267462"><p>Fueling the hype in the 1980s AI cycle was the Japanese Fifth Generation project, for which a stated goal was to leapfrog the West's computer technology and skills. People like Edward Feigenbaum and Pamela McCorduck used the FUD generated around this project to call for increased funding, claiming in their 1983 book 'The Fifth Generation: Japan’s Computer Challenge to the World' that "America needs a national plan of action, a kind of space shuttle program for the knowledge systems of the future." A<span class="substr"> </span></p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267462">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267462"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267462">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267462" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266100" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266100" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266100" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266100" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266100" name="comment_link_57266100" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266100" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266100)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266100" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266100); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Torodung">Torodung</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Torodung">( 31985 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266100"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266100"><p><div class="quote"><p>Cats on the blockchain, anyone?</p></div><p>Well, at the very least, every zig should be on the blockchain. Don't know about Cats.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266100">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266100"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266100">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266100" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266100"><li id="tree_57266268" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266268" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266268" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266268"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266268">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266268" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266268"><li id="tree_57266392" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266392" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266392" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266392"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266392">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266392" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57266268"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266268">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="hidestring_57266100"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266100">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57265956" class="comment full contain"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265956" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265956" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265956" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265956" name="comment_link_57265956" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57265956" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265956)" >You can stop reading at "Orlowski"</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265956" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265956); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>4</a>, Interesting)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~serviscope_minor">serviscope_minor</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~serviscope_minor">( 664417 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265956">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @04:59PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57265956">#57265956</a>)
+ <small><a href="//slashdot.org/~serviscope_minor/journal/" title="Thursday October 06, 2011 @02:59PM" class="user_journal_display">Journal</a> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265956"><p>Andrew Orlowski of The Register is basically a professional dickhead. His main goal seems to be to be as obnoxious and ignorant as possible presumably with the goal of trolling the readership. He's pretty much the reason I stopped reading the Register because of the constant streem of utter bullshit from that guy.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265956">
+<span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57265956" class="btn link" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&op=Reply&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265956" onclick="D2.replyTo(57265956); return false;">Reply to This</a> <a href="#" class="comment_share_toggle btn link">Share</a>
+ <div class="comment_share sharethis-0 hide"><span class="au"></span>
+ <a class="janrain t" href="#" data-provider="twitter" data-message="You can stop reading at "Orlowski" by serviscope_minor @slashdot" data-url="https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57265956" data-title="You can stop reading at "Orlowski"">twitter</a>
+ <a class="janrain f" href="#" data-provider="facebook" data-message="You can stop reading at "Orlowski" by serviscope_minor" data-url="https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57265956" data-title="You can stop reading at "Orlowski"">facebook</a>
+ <a class="janrain l" href="#" data-provider="linkedin" data-message="You can stop reading at "Orlowski" by serviscope_minor" data-url="https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57265956" data-title="You can stop reading at "Orlowski"">linkedin</a>
+ <a class="g" href="https://plus.google.com/share?url=https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424%26cid=57265956" onclick="javascript:window.open(this.href,'', 'menubar=no,toolbar=no,resizable=yes,scrollbars=yes,height=600,width=600');return false;"><img src="//www.gstatic.com/images/icons/gplus-16.png" alt="Share on Google+"/></a>
+ </div>
+ <span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57265956" title="Flag this comment as Inappropriate" class="ui-icon flag fright" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&op=flag&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265956" onclick="return false;">Flag as Inappropriate</a>
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265956"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265956">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265956" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57265956"><li id="tree_57266044" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266044" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266044" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266044"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266044">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266044" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266044"><li id="tree_57266282" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266282" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266282" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266282"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266282">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266282" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57266044"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266044">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266060" class="comment full contain"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266060" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266060" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266060" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266060" name="comment_link_57266060" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266060" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266060)" >Re:You can stop reading at "Orlowski"</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266060" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266060); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>4</a>, Interesting)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~starless">starless</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~starless">( 60879 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266060">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @05:21PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266060">#57266060</a>)
+ <small> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266060"><p>And also appears to be climate change denier....<br>(at least for some of his Register articles.)</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266060">
+<span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57266060" class="btn link" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&op=Reply&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266060" onclick="D2.replyTo(57266060); return false;">Reply to This</a> <span class="ind"></span><a class="btn link" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&cid=57265956" onclick="return D2.selectParent(57265956)">Parent</a> <a href="#" class="comment_share_toggle btn link">Share</a>
+ <div class="comment_share sharethis-0 hide"><span class="au"></span>
+ <a class="janrain t" href="#" data-provider="twitter" data-message="Re:You can stop reading at "Orlowski" by starless @slashdot" data-url="https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266060" data-title="Re:You can stop reading at "Orlowski"">twitter</a>
+ <a class="janrain f" href="#" data-provider="facebook" data-message="Re:You can stop reading at "Orlowski" by starless" data-url="https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266060" data-title="Re:You can stop reading at "Orlowski"">facebook</a>
+ <a class="janrain l" href="#" data-provider="linkedin" data-message="Re:You can stop reading at "Orlowski" by starless" data-url="https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266060" data-title="Re:You can stop reading at "Orlowski"">linkedin</a>
+ <a class="g" href="https://plus.google.com/share?url=https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424%26cid=57266060" onclick="javascript:window.open(this.href,'', 'menubar=no,toolbar=no,resizable=yes,scrollbars=yes,height=600,width=600');return false;"><img src="//www.gstatic.com/images/icons/gplus-16.png" alt="Share on Google+"/></a>
+ </div>
+ <span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57266060" title="Flag this comment as Inappropriate" class="ui-icon flag fright" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&op=flag&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266060" onclick="return false;">Flag as Inappropriate</a>
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266060"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266060">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266060" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266374" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266374" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266374" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266374" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266374" name="comment_link_57266374" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266374" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266374)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266374" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266374); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~TJ_Phazerhacki">TJ_Phazerhacki</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~TJ_Phazerhacki">( 520002 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266374"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266374">So, Walt Mossberg for a new generation?
+
+Shutup!</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266374">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266374"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266374">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266374" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57265956"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265956">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57265970" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265970" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265970" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265970" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265970" name="comment_link_57265970" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57265970" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265970)" >AI in a Toaster!</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265970" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265970); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Zorro">Zorro</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Zorro">( 15797 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265970"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265970"><p>Red Dwarf has already shown why this is a BAD Idea.</p><p>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhnN4eUiei4</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265970">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265970"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265970">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265970" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57265970"><li id="tree_57265996" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265996" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265996" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265996" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265996" name="comment_link_57265996" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57265996" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265996)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265996" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265996); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Revek">Revek</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Revek">( 133289 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265996"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265996"><p>Please learn basic html K, thanks.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265996">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265996"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265996">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265996" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57265996"><li id="tree_57266042" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266042" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266042" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266042"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266042">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266042" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266298" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266298" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266298" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266298"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266298">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266298" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266460" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266460" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266460" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266460"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266460">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266460" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266490" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266490" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266490" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266490"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266490">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266490" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266706" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266706" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266706" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266706" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266706" name="comment_link_57266706" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266706" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266706)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266706" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266706); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~AbRASiON">AbRASiON</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~AbRASiON">( 589899 )</a></span></a> <a href="/faq/subscriptions.shtml#subscription_other_advantages">*</a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266706"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266706"><p>How about slashdot stop being entirely backwards with that shit instead?</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266706">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266706"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266706">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266706" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267236" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267236" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267236" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267236"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267236">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267236" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57265996"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265996">5 replies</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57265984" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
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+ <div id="comment_top_57266386" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266386" name="comment_link_57266386" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266386" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266386)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266386" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266386); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Applehu+Akbar">Applehu Akbar</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Applehu+Akbar">( 2968043 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266386"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266386"><p>But I do like being able to verbally ask my phone to navigate to a contact, without having to squint at a screen in the sun, and get turn by turn directions. Digital assistants have slipped into a place in my life where they do a few useful things. As time goes on, this set will grow larger.</p><p>But I know: "If it works, it's not AI!" "If it's AI, it won't work!"</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266386">
+
+</div>
+</div>
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+</li><li id="hidestring_57266016"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266016">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266030" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266030" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266030" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266030" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266030" name="comment_link_57266030" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266030" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266030)" >Aibo</a>
+
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+ <span id="comment_score_57266030" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266030); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>1</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span>Anonymous Coward</span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266030"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266030"><p>If Sony's Aibo lives up to the demos I have seen - that would be one big application. AI as a pet.</p><p>I also use AI (maybe more ML) all the time with photo sorting, image recognition, etc. It is already in the home.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266030">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266030"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266030">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266030" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266038" class="comment full contain"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266038" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266038" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266038" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266038" name="comment_link_57266038" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266038" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266038)" >OP must be joking...</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266038" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266038); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>4</a>, Insightful)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~JoeDuncan">JoeDuncan</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~JoeDuncan">( 874519 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266038">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @05:17PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266038">#57266038</a>)
+ <small> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266038"><p>... because consumer AI is *ALREADY* ubiquitous and all around us.</p><p>From the face detection in your phone, to the fuzzy logic controllers in washing machines, to the ant colony algorithms being used to route network traffic, to finding directions with google maps, to Netflix and Amazon's recommendation algorithms, to OCR for cheques and mail, to NEST thermostats, to robot vacuum cleaners and lawn mowers, to expert systems in medical diagnosis... (I could keep going)</p><p>AI in consumer products is literally *already* ALL around us.</p><p>Saying that consumer AI "has no future" is like looking around at the world today and saying "personal cars have no future" - it's completely idiotic because to anyone with half an ounce of perception that future is ALREADY here.</p><p>It's like looking at a forest and claiming there are no trees</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266038">
+<span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57266038" class="btn link" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&op=Reply&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266038" onclick="D2.replyTo(57266038); return false;">Reply to This</a> <a href="#" class="comment_share_toggle btn link">Share</a>
+ <div class="comment_share sharethis-0 hide"><span class="au"></span>
+ <a class="janrain t" href="#" data-provider="twitter" data-message="OP must be joking... by JoeDuncan @slashdot" data-url="https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266038" data-title="OP must be joking...">twitter</a>
+ <a class="janrain f" href="#" data-provider="facebook" data-message="OP must be joking... by JoeDuncan" data-url="https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266038" data-title="OP must be joking...">facebook</a>
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+ <div id="comment_top_57266410" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266410" name="comment_link_57266410" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266410" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266410)" >Re:</a>
+
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+ <span id="comment_score_57266410" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266410); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~grahamsz">grahamsz</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~grahamsz">( 150076 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266410"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266410"><p>Yeah it seems like it is a natural fit in optimizing the things we do.</p><p>Even though I don't routinely use my phone as an alarm clock, it still knows when i'm likely to get up and if I plug it in at bed time it'll do a good job of figuring out when i'm likely to get up and adjusts its charging rate to be done about an hour before then. Yet if I plug it in a 3pm then it'll assume i want as much charge as possible and charge as fast as it can. It's not rocket science, but it's useful.</p><p>Do I need a dishwasher with<span class="substr"> </span></p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266410">
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+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266524" name="comment_link_57266524" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266524" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266524)" >Re:</a>
+
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+ <span id="comment_score_57266524" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266524); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~JoeDuncan">JoeDuncan</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~JoeDuncan">( 874519 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266524"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266524"><p><div class="quote"><p>Do I need a dishwasher with a screen that I can talk to?</p></div><p>Nope, but I'm willing to bet it has an embedded fuzzy logic controller in it to control water levels.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266524">
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+ <div id="comment_top_57267474" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267474" name="comment_link_57267474" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57267474" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267474)" >Re:</a>
+
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+ <span id="comment_score_57267474" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267474); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~mcswell">mcswell</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~mcswell">( 1102107 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267474"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267474"><p>"Do I need a dishwasher with a screen that I can talk to?" Printers have a screen. You can't talk to it (at least you're not supposed to--when aggravated, I've been know to do so, and not kindly). But try to decipher what's on that screen. I claim that printers are not any easier to use than they were in 1984 (which is when I got my first dot matrix printer). You (ok, I) *still* can't figure out what's wrong with them, despite the screen.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267474">
+
+</div>
+</div>
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+<div id="replyto_57267474"></div>
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+<ul id="commtree_57266434"><li id="tree_57267112" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267112" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267112" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267112" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267112" name="comment_link_57267112" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57267112" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267112)" >Re:</a>
+
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+ <span id="comment_score_57267112" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267112); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~JoeDuncan">JoeDuncan</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~JoeDuncan">( 874519 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267112"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267112"><p><div class="quote"><p> None of the tings you mention actually contain any real artificial intelligence in the sense of being able to making decisions in the face of unknown circumstances and data sources.</p></div><p>They do actually.</p><p>Roombas have to be able to adapt to unknown obstacles and uncertain sensory input (could get blocked, partially occluded etc...).</p><p>Embedded fuzzy logic controllers (also used in anti-lock brakes) have to be able to maintain a steady output signal given uncertain input (wear and tear on the mechanics, grit...) that can vary wildly in an unknown manner.</p><p>OCR systems need to be able to tell the difference between a cheque and unknown things, like night club flyers, and they deal with hand written<span class="substr"> </span></p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267112">
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+</li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266506" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266506" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266506" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266506" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266506" name="comment_link_57266506" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266506" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266506)" >Re:</a>
+
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+ <span id="comment_score_57266506" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266506); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>1</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~AHuxley">AHuxley</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~AHuxley">( 892839 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266506"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266506">Re "face detection" is not AI. Its a really big and fast database. Filled with faces the police know about and random people walking past CCTV.<br>
+Re "fuzzy logic controllers in washing machines" A set amount of power, water, weight of laundry is not AI. Just good programming within set limits.<br>
+Re "'finding directions" with maps that are created and set. <br>
+Re "recommendation algorithms" that is set by past people buying things and another person showing the same interests. More to do with collecting lots</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266506">
+
+</div>
+</div>
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+ <li id="hiddens_57266506" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
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+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267056" name="comment_link_57267056" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57267056" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267056)" >Re:</a>
+
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+ <span id="comment_score_57267056" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267056); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~JoeDuncan">JoeDuncan</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~JoeDuncan">( 874519 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267056"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267056"><p><span class="substr"> </span><div class="quote"><p>..."face detection" is not AI. Its a really big and fast database. Filled with faces the police know...</p></div><p>...and just HOW do the faces "police know" get matched to this database? Explain without reference to AI.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>..."fuzzy logic controllers in washing machines" A set amount of power, water, weight of laundry is not AI.</p></div><p>No it isn't, but you're a fool if you think your washing machine is that simple these days. It DOES take fuzzy logic to adapt to things like wear and tear on the machine, arbitrarily changing water pressures and temperatures, etc... and still maintain consistent performance.</p><p><div class="quote"><p>"'finding directions" with maps that are created and set.</p></div><p>...and using AI algorithms to find the best path.</p><p>Blah blah blah... you get the point. You've deliberately downplayed the AI aspect</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267056">
+
+</div>
+</div>
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+<div id="replyto_57267056"></div>
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+<div id="comment_57267132" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267132" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267132" name="comment_link_57267132" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57267132" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267132)" >Re:</a>
+
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+ <span id="comment_score_57267132" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267132); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~JoeDuncan">JoeDuncan</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~JoeDuncan">( 874519 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267132"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267132"><p>You are clearly uneducated, Troll.</p><p>If you actually wish to enlighten yourself, I'd start here: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_intelligence" title="wikipedia.org">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...</a> [wikipedia.org] </p></div>
+ </div>
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+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57267132"><li id="tree_57267662" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267662" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267662" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267662"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267662">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267662" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57267132"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57267132">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57267632" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267632" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267632" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267632" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267632" name="comment_link_57267632" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57267632" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267632)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267632" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267632); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~hazem">hazem</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~hazem">( 472289 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267632"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267632"><p><div class="quote"><p>From the face detection in your phone, to the fuzzy logic controllers in washing machines, to the ant colony algorithms being used to route network traffic, to finding directions with google maps, to Netflix and Amazon's recommendation algorithms, to OCR for cheques and mail, to NEST thermostats, to robot vacuum cleaners and lawn mowers, to expert systems in medical diagnosis... (I could keep going)</p></div><p>When I took an AI class a few years ago, one of my favorite things the professor said was, "What we called 'AI' yesterday is simply the algorithm for how we do a thing today."</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267632">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267632"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267632">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267632" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267706" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267706" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267706" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267706"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267706">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267706" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57266038"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266038">3 replies</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266066" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266066" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266066" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266066"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266066">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266066" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266104" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266104" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266104" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266104" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266104" name="comment_link_57266104" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266104" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266104)" >AI's Strength</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266104" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266104); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~thePsychologist">thePsychologist</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~thePsychologist">( 1062886 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266104"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266104"><p>AI (i.e. machine learning/neural networks) is really good at optimizing stuff, so its natural strength shows when you have hundreds of thousands of entities in a system. Examples are the electricity grid, playing Go, and a department store's inventory.</p><p>In our individual lives, AI seems more like another drop in the bucket of too much technology, and I think one day we'll realize that less is more when it comes to the stuff in our homes.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266104">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266104"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266104">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266104" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266136" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266136" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266136" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266136" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266136" name="comment_link_57266136" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266136" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266136)" >Getting concerned myself</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266136" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266136); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>1</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~SuperKendall">SuperKendall</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~SuperKendall">( 25149 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266136"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266136"><p>I was looking at new fridges recently as a friend was asking for a recommendation, and it's alarming how trying to find a fridge without a screen is getting to be like trying to find a cell phone without a camera... it really limits your options.</p><p>The only way they could make fridges any worse is the if screens also played CNN constantly when not in use, like in an airport... you can absolutely see subsidized ad-fridges coming down the pipeline.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266136">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266136"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266136">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266136" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266136"><li id="tree_57266222" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266222" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266222" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266222" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266222" name="comment_link_57266222" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266222" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266222)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266222" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266222); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~lgw">lgw</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~lgw">( 121541 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266222"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266222"><p>Seems like only the highest and lowest-end fridges lack screens these days (as well as ice/water in the door, something else I could do without).</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266222">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266222"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266222">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266222" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266222"><li id="tree_57267484" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267484" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267484" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267484" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267484" name="comment_link_57267484" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57267484" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267484)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267484" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267484); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~mcswell">mcswell</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~mcswell">( 1102107 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267484"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267484"><p>Come to my house. The refr *has* an ice/water dispenser in the door, but it hasn't worked for over a year. I think the tube to the water dispenser is frozen, and if it gets thawed, it just freezes up again. Same with the water dispenser on the refr nearest my office at work.</p><p>As for the ice dispenser on our refr, we never used it, so I took it out and got lots more room in the freezer. If we want ice cubes, we make them in trays, like the 1960s.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267484">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267484"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267484">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267484" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266526" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266526" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266526" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266526"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266526">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266526" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266526"><li id="tree_57266808" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266808" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266808" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266808" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266808" name="comment_link_57266808" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266808" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266808)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266808" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266808); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>3</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~sheramil">sheramil</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~sheramil">( 921315 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266808"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266808"><p><div class="quote"><p>What the hell does a fridge need a screen for?</p></div><p>You can connect it to a webcam inside the fridge and see if the light goes out when you close the door.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266808">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266808"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266808">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266808" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li></ul></li><li id="hidestring_57266136"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266136">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266150" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266150" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266150" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266150" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266150" name="comment_link_57266150" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266150" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266150)" >I remember a time...</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266150" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266150); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~DalM">Dallas May</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~DalM">( 4891515 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266150"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266150"><p>My uncle was a computer scientist for a National Lab. He retired 15 or so years ago. I remember just after my grandmother first got internet, he didn't have it at his home yet because he didn't believe it was safe -this was probably 1997 or 98, and I remember him talking to me about how disappointed he was with the internet. "It was supposed to be this great thing. It's useless. It'll never amount to anything."</p><p>Yeah, he was wrong.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266150">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266150"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266150">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266150" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266150"><li id="tree_57266220" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266220" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266220" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266220" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266220" name="comment_link_57266220" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266220" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266220)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266220" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266220); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~bobbied">bobbied</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~bobbied">( 2522392 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266220"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266220"><p><div class="quote"><p>My uncle was a computer scientist for a National Lab. He retired 15 or so years ago. I remember just after my grandmother first got internet, he didn't have it at his home yet because he didn't believe it was safe -this was probably 1997 or 98, and I remember him talking to me about how disappointed he was with the internet. "It was supposed to be this great thing. It's useless. It'll never amount to anything."</p><p>Yeah, he was wrong.</p></div><p>Was he? Was he really? </p><p>How much of the internet is truly useful and how much is just trash? Judging by my inbox, the number of E-mail in my inbox the ratio 1s more than 10 to 1 SPAM to worth while messages (And that's AFTER the SPAM filters.) </p><p>I find that this ratio pretty much governs the whole of the internet.. Where 1/10th of it is actually something of use and the rest is just useless junk. </p><p>So he's not that wrong. </p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266220">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266220"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266220">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266220" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266220"><li id="tree_57266376" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266376" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266376" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266376"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266376">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266376" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57266220"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266220">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266402" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266402" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266402" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266402"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266402">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266402" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266402"><li id="tree_57267490" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267490" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267490" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267490" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267490" name="comment_link_57267490" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57267490" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267490)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267490" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267490); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~mcswell">mcswell</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~mcswell">( 1102107 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267490"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267490"><p>And here you (and I) are.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267490">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267490"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267490">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267490" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li></ul></li><li id="hidestring_57266150"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266150">1 reply</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266214" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266214" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266214" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266214" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266214" name="comment_link_57266214" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266214" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266214)" >I heard...</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266214" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266214); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>1</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Hentai007">Hentai007</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Hentai007">( 188457 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266214"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266214"><p>AI is turning frogs gay.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266214">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266214"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266214">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266214" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266214"><li id="tree_57266712" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266712" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266712" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266712" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266712" name="comment_link_57266712" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266712" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266712)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266712" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266712); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~AbRASiON">AbRASiON</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~AbRASiON">( 589899 )</a></span></a> <a href="/faq/subscriptions.shtml#subscription_other_advantages">*</a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266712"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266712"><p>That's actually not true, the frogs are only gay for pay.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266712">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266712"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266712">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266712" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266370" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266370" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266370" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266370"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266370">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266370" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266426" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266426" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266426" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266426"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266426">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266426" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266452" class="comment full contain"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266452" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266452" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266452" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266452" name="comment_link_57266452" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266452" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266452)" >Nobody buys something because of AI</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266452" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266452); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>3</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Laxator2">Laxator2</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Laxator2">( 973549 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266452">
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @06:46PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266452">#57266452</a>)
+ <small> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266452"><p>I did not see any example where someone says: "I did not buy that product because it lacked AI".</p><p>I did not hear from anyone that they need AI so they are going out of their way to buy it. In its current form AI is good for pattern recognition in some cases, for example, face identification in photos.<br>The only customers are corporations with massive collections of personal data to analyze, but not individual consumers.<br>I believe AI has been over-hyped and pushed in areas where it is not usable in its current form (like self-driving cars) and we start to see the backlash.</p><p>I've already seen stories saying that the medical diagnoses made by IBM's Watson are just plain wrong. More examples will follow.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266452">
+<span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57266452" class="btn link" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&op=Reply&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266452" onclick="D2.replyTo(57266452); return false;">Reply to This</a> <a href="#" class="comment_share_toggle btn link">Share</a>
+ <div class="comment_share sharethis-0 hide"><span class="au"></span>
+ <a class="janrain t" href="#" data-provider="twitter" data-message="Nobody buys something because of AI by Laxator2 @slashdot" data-url="https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266452" data-title="Nobody buys something because of AI">twitter</a>
+ <a class="janrain f" href="#" data-provider="facebook" data-message="Nobody buys something because of AI by Laxator2" data-url="https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266452" data-title="Nobody buys something because of AI">facebook</a>
+ <a class="janrain l" href="#" data-provider="linkedin" data-message="Nobody buys something because of AI by Laxator2" data-url="https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266452" data-title="Nobody buys something because of AI">linkedin</a>
+ <a class="g" href="https://plus.google.com/share?url=https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424%26cid=57266452" onclick="javascript:window.open(this.href,'', 'menubar=no,toolbar=no,resizable=yes,scrollbars=yes,height=600,width=600');return false;"><img src="//www.gstatic.com/images/icons/gplus-16.png" alt="Share on Google+"/></a>
+ </div>
+ <span class="ind"></span><a id="reply_link_57266452" title="Flag this comment as Inappropriate" class="ui-icon flag fright" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&op=flag&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57266452" onclick="return false;">Flag as Inappropriate</a>
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266452"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266452">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266452" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57266452"><li id="tree_57267392" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267392" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267392" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267392" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267392" name="comment_link_57267392" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57267392" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267392)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267392" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267392); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~m00sh">m00sh</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~m00sh">( 2538182 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267392"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267392"><p><div class="quote"><p>I did not see any example where someone says: "I did not buy that product because it lacked AI".</p><p>I did not hear from anyone that they need AI so they are going out of their way to buy it. In its current form AI is good for pattern recognition in some cases, for example, face identification in photos.
+The only customers are corporations with massive collections of personal data to analyze, but not individual consumers.
+I believe AI has been over-hyped and pushed in areas where it is not usable in its current form (like self-driving cars) and we start to see the backlash.</p><p>I've already seen stories saying that the medical diagnoses made by IBM's Watson are just plain wrong. More examples will follow.</p></div><p>What about Google home and Alexa?
+
+</p><p>How do you recognize pedestrians in self-driving cars without AI?
+
+</p><p>IBM Watson was wrong quite a bit but it won jeopardy.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267392">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267392"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267392">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267392" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li></ul></li><li id="tree_57266562" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266562" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266562" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266562" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266562" name="comment_link_57266562" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266562" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266562)" >First they ignore you, ...</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266562" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266562); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>1</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Maxo-Texas">Maxo-Texas</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Maxo-Texas">( 864189 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266562"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266562"><p>First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.</p><p>Mahatma Gandhi</p><p>This field is moving so fast compared to the 90s.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266562">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266562"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266562">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266562" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266590" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266590" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266590" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266590" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266590" name="comment_link_57266590" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266590" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266590)" >It's a dead end because it's not very good anyway</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266590" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266590); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Rick+Schumann">Rick Schumann</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Rick+Schumann">( 4662797 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266590"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266590">So-called 'AI' is over-hyped and under-performing.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266590">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266590"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266590">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266590" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266670" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266670" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266670" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57266670" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266670" name="comment_link_57266670" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57266670" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266670)" >Another AI winter?</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57266670" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266670); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~OneHundredAndTen">OneHundredAndTen</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~OneHundredAndTen">( 1523865 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266670"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266670">The AI bubble seems to be starting to deflate. It may not pop, but it will likely carry on shrinking. Most people already know that Alex and co. are little more than gimmicks, good for party games, grins and giggles, and little more. The AI community seems to be making the same mistakes they made in the late 60s and 70s. The second AI winter is nigh.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266670">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266670"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266670">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266670" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266782" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266782" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266782" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266782"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266782">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266782" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57266928" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57266928" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57266928" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266928"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57266928">
+ <li id="hiddens_57266928" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267042" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267042" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267042" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267042" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267042" name="comment_link_57267042" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57267042" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267042)" >how do you see non-existent things ?</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267042" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267042); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~bingoUV">bingoUV</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~bingoUV">( 1066850 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267042"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267042"><p>If Consumer AI doesn't have a future, how can that non-existent future be seen ?</p><p>In an alternative interpretation, the author has seen the future of Consumer AI and so of course it exists. But the future of the future of Consumer AI doesn't exist. I.e. Future of Consumer AI doesn't have one - where "one" stands for future.</p><p>Any other interpretations ?</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267042">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267042"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267042">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267042" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="tree_57267570" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267570" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267570" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267570" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267570" name="comment_link_57267570" href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&cid=57267570" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267570)" >It's not "Consumer AI"</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267570" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267570); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>1</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~themusicgod1">themusicgod1</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~themusicgod1">( 241799 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267570"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267570">Since the consumer is not control of it.
+<br> <br>
+It's Anti-Consumer AI if anything</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267570">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267570"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267570">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267570" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_0"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12580424&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=0">11 replies</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li>
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+ <!--[if IE 8]><link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" media="screen, projection" href="//a.fsdn.com/sd/ie8-classic.ssl.css?8f5016a67a2f2048" ><![endif]-->
+ <!--[if IE 7]><link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" media="screen, projection" href="//a.fsdn.com/sd/ie7-classic.ssl.css?8f5016a67a2f2048" ><![endif]-->
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <!-- -->
+
+
+
+
+
+ <!-- SMACKS: NEW CSS -->
+ <link rel="stylesheet" href="//a.fsdn.com/sd/css/app.css?8f5016a67a2f2048">
+
+ <script type='text/javascript'>
+var _gaq = _gaq || [];
+</script>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<script type="text/javascript" id="pbjs_script" data-dom="https://d3tglifpd8whs6.cloudfront.net" src="https://d3tglifpd8whs6.cloudfront.net/js/prebid/slash-story/slash-story.min.js"></script>
+<script type='text/javascript'>
+ /*global performance */
+ var googletag = window.googletag || {};
+ googletag.cmd = googletag.cmd || [];
+
+ window.Ads_disallowPersonalization = 1;
+ bizx.cmp.ifConsent('all', 'all', function(){
+ window.Ads_disallowPersonalization = 0;
+ }, function(){
+ window.Ads_disallowPersonalization = 1;
+ }, function () {
+ window.bizxPrebid.Ads.initPrebid(window.bizxPrebid.adUnits);
+ });
+</script>
+
+<!-- prep GPT ads -->
+<script type='text/javascript'>
+(function() {
+ function page_type (loc) {
+ /*
+ only four page types:
+ - Story
+ - Poll
+ - Homepage (/ only)
+ - Other (but AdOps wants 'Homepage' again)
+ */
+ var path = loc.pathname;
+ var just_the_root = /^\/?$/.test(path);
+ var story_or_poll = /^\/(story(?=\/)|submission(?=\/)|poll(?=\/|Booth|s\b))/i.exec(path);
+
+ var page_type = just_the_root ? 'homepage'
+ : story_or_poll ? story_or_poll[1]
+ : 'other'
+
+ // exceptions
+ if (page_type.toLowerCase() === 'submission')
+ page_type = 'story'; // submissions are like stories, right?
+ else if (page_type.toLowerCase() === 'other')
+ page_type = 'homepage'; // this one might move out of here
+
+ return page_type;
+ }
+ function page_section (loc) {
+ //var greek = ['alpha', 'beta', 'gamma', 'delta'].join('|');
+ //var hostwise = '^([a-z]+)(?:-(?:'+greek+'))?\\.(?:slashdot\\.org|\\.xb\\.sf\\.net)$';
+ var pathwise = '^/(?:(recent|popular|blog)|stories/([^/]+))';
+ var rootwise = '^\/?$';
+
+ //var hostwisely = new RegExp(hostwise,'i').exec(loc.hostname);
+ var pathwisely = new RegExp(pathwise,'i').exec(loc.pathname);
+ var rootwisely = new RegExp(rootwise,'i').exec(loc.pathname);
+
+ var section = (rootwisely && 'homepage')
+ || (pathwisely && (pathwisely[1] || pathwisely[2]))
+ || ''
+ ;
+
+ return section.replace(/[^_a-z]/ig, '');
+ }
+ function single_size (size) {
+ return '' + size[0] + 'x' + size[1];
+ }
+ function sz_sz (sz) {
+ var str = '';
+ var sizes = [];
+ if (sz[0] instanceof Array) {
+ for (size in sz) {
+ sizes.push(single_size(sz[size]));
+ }
+ return sizes.join(',');
+ } else {
+ return single_size(sz);
+ }
+ }
+
+ function unique_tpc_array(array1,array2) {
+ var j = array1.concat(array2);
+ j.forEach(function (v,i,a) {
+ a[i] = v.replace(/[^_a-z]/ig, '');
+ });
+ return j.filter(function (v,i,a) {
+ return v != '' && a.indexOf(v) === i;
+ });
+ }
+
+ /* LEGEND:
+ - 'sz' = "size"
+ - 'npt' = "no page type" in ad unit name
+ */
+ var tags = {
+ '728x90_A': { 'sz': [[728, 90], [970, 90], [970, 250], [980, 66]] },
+ '728x90_B': { 'sz': [728, 90] },
+ '728x90_C': { 'sz': [728, 90], 'skip': { 'homepage': 1 } },
+ 'HubIcon_200x90_A': { 'sz': [[200, 90], [220, 90]]},
+ 'PowerSwitch_980x66_A': { 'sz': [980, 66], 'skip': { 'homepage': 1 } },
+ 'PollPeel': { 'sz': [200, 90], 'skip': { 'homepage': 1 } },
+ //'VideoWidget_300x250': { 'sz': [300, 250], 'npt': 1 },
+ '300x250_A': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600], [300, 1050]] },
+ '300x250_B': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]] },
+ '300x250_C': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]] },
+ '300x250_D': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]] },
+ 'Pulse_300x600_A': { 'sz': [300, 600] },
+ //'Polls_Detail_300x250_A': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]], 'npt': 1 },
+ //'Poll_300x250_A': { 'sz': [[300, 250], [300, 600]], 'npt': 1 },
+ //'SD_Story_1x1': { 'sz': [1, 1] },
+ '1x1': { 'sz': [1, 1] }
+ };
+
+ //var network_path = '/41014381/Slashdot/';
+ var network_path = '/41014381/Slashdot/';
+ var tag_name_prefix = 'SD';
+ var tag_name_linkage = '_';
+ var tag_name_pagetype = page_type(location);
+ var tag_topic = page_section(location);
+ if(tag_name_pagetype == 'poll'){
+ tag_name_pagetype = 'Poll';
+ }
+ var before_tag_pagetyped = network_path
+ + tag_name_prefix
+ + tag_name_linkage
+ + tag_name_pagetype
+ + tag_name_linkage
+ ;
+ var before_tag_pagetypeless = network_path
+ + tag_name_prefix
+ + tag_name_linkage
+ /* + tag_name_pagetype */
+ /* + tag_name_linkage */
+ ;
+
+
+ googletag.cmd.push(function() {
+
+ function remove_sticky_top() {
+ setTimeout(function(){
+ $('#div-gpt-ad-728x90_a').parent('div').addClass('adwrap-viewed-banner');
+ $('#div-gpt-ad-728x90_a').addClass('viewableImpression');
+ }, 1000);
+ }
+ function remove_sticky_railad() {
+ setTimeout(function(){
+ $('#slashboxes .adwrap-unviewed').addClass('adwrap-viewed-railad');
+ $('.railad').addClass('viewableImpression');
+ }, 1000);
+ }
+ function viewable_imp (slot) {
+ for(var i in slot) {
+ if(typeof slot[i] !== 'string') continue;
+ switch(slot[i]){
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_728x90_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_story_728x90_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_Poll_728x90_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_728x90_Ref_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_story_728x90_Ref_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_Poll_728x90_Ref_A":
+ remove_sticky_top();
+ break;
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_300x250_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_story_300x250_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_Poll_300x250_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_300x250_Ref_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_story_300x250_Ref_A":
+ case "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_Poll_300x250_Ref_A":
+ remove_sticky_railad();
+ break;
+ }
+ //if(slot[i] === "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_728x90_A") remove_sticky_top();
+ //if(slot[i] === "/41014381/Slashdot/SD_homepage_300x250_A") remove_sticky_railad();
+ }
+ }
+ function define_me_a_slot (tag) {
+ if (tags[tag].skip && tags[tag].skip[tag_name_pagetype])
+ return;
+ var sandbox_regex = /\.xb\.sf\.net$/i;
+ var full_name = tags[tag].npt // "no page type"
+ ? before_tag_pagetypeless + tag
+ : before_tag_pagetyped + tag
+ ;
+ var div_id = 'div-gpt-ad-' + tag.toLowerCase();
+
+ var service;
+ // extend jQuery and get URL query params
+ jQuery.extend({
+ getQueryParameters : function(str) {
+ return (str || document.location.search).replace(/(^\?)/,'').split("&").map(function(n){
+ return n = n.split("="),this[n[0]] = n[1],this
+ }.bind({}))[0];
+ }
+ });
+
+ var queryParams = $.getQueryParameters();
+
+ if( queryParams.source === 'autorefresh' ) {
+ full_name = full_name.replace(/(\d+x\d+)/,'$1_Ref');
+ //console.log('TAG NAME: ', full_name);
+ }
+
+ service = googletag.defineSlot(
+ full_name
+ , tags[tag].sz
+ , div_id
+ ).addService(googletag.pubads());
+
+ service.setTargeting('sz', tags[tag].sz);
+
+
+ var frontend_tpc = tag_topic.split(",");
+ var backend_tpc = [ "it", "technology", "firefox", "privacy", "yro", "tor" ];
+
+ var tpc_final = unique_tpc_array(frontend_tpc, backend_tpc);
+ service.setTargeting('tpc', tpc_final);
+ if (location.hostname.match(sandbox_regex)) {
+ service.setTargeting('test', 'adops');
+ }
+
+ }
+
+ for (tag in tags) {
+ define_me_a_slot(tag, false);
+ }
+ googletag.pubads().addEventListener('impressionViewable', function(event) {
+ viewable_imp(event.slot);
+ });
+
+ googletag.pubads().setTargeting('requestSource', 'GPT');
+ googletag.pubads().setRequestNonPersonalizedAds(window.Ads_disallowPersonalization);
+ googletag.pubads().enableAsyncRendering();
+
+
+ googletag.pubads().collapseEmptyDivs();
+ window.bizxPrebid.SAFEFRAMES = true;
+ bizxPrebid.Ads.pushToGoogle();
+ googletag.enableServices();
+ });
+})();
+</script>
+
+
+
+<!-- CrossPixel -->
+<script type="text/javascript"> try{(function(){ var cb = new Date().getTime(); var s = document.createElement("script"); s.defer = true; s.src = "//tag.crsspxl.com/s1.js?d=2397&cb="+cb; var s0 = document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0]; s0.parentNode.insertBefore(s, s0); })();}catch(e){} </script>
+
+<!-- AdBlock Check -->
+<script>
+var isAdBlockActive = true;
+</script>
+<script async src="//a.fsdn.com/sd/js/scripts/ad.js?8f5016a67a2f2048"></script>
+
+</head>
+<body class="anon firehose ">
+
+
+ <script src="//a.fsdn.com/sd/all-minified.js?8f5016a67a2f2048" type="text/javascript"></script>
+
+
+ <script type="text/javascript">
+(function(){
+var regexp=/\s*(?:\d+|many)\s+more\s*/i;
+
+
+ var auto_more_count = 1;
+
+ function auto_more(){
+ var $more_link = $('#more-experiment a');
+ $more_link.each(function(){
+ var $lastitem = $('#firehoselist>article.fhitem:visible:last');
+ if ( Bounds.intersect(window, $lastitem) ) {
+
+
+ !--auto_more_count && (auto_more=undefined);
+ // don't allow a call till the next paginate gets built and |more_possible|
+ $(document).unbind('scroll', call_auto_more);
+ }
+ });
+ };
+
+ function call_auto_more(){ auto_more && auto_more(); }
+
+
+$('#more-experiment a').
+ live('more-possible', function( event ){
+ var $more_link=$(this);
+ if ( regexp.test($more_link.text()) ) {
+
+ $(document).bind('scroll', call_auto_more);
+ } else {
+ $(document).unbind('scroll', call_auto_more);
+
+ }
+ });
+})();
+</script>
+ <!--[if lt IE 9]><script src="//a.fsdn.com/sd/html5.js"></script><![endif]-->
+
+
+ <script type="text/javascript">
+ (function() {
+ if (typeof window.janrain !== 'object') window.janrain = {};
+ if (typeof window.janrain.settings !== 'object') window.janrain.settings = {};
+
+ /* _______________ can edit below this line _______________ */
+
+ janrain.settings.tokenUrl = 'https://slashdot.org/token_callback.pl';
+ janrain.settings.type = 'embed';
+ janrain.settings.appId = 'ggidemlconlmjciiohla';
+ janrain.settings.appUrl = 'https://login.slashdot.org';
+ janrain.settings.providers = [
+ 'googleplus',
+ 'facebook',
+ 'twitter',
+ 'linkedin'];
+ janrain.settings.providersPerPage = '5';
+ janrain.settings.format = 'one column';
+ janrain.settings.actionText = 'Sign in with';
+ janrain.settings.showAttribution = false;
+ janrain.settings.fontColor = '#666666';
+ janrain.settings.fontFamily = 'lucida grande, Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif';
+ janrain.settings.backgroundColor = '#ffffff';
+ janrain.settings.width = '300';
+ janrain.settings.borderColor = '#cccccc';
+ janrain.settings.borderRadius = '5'; janrain.settings.buttonBorderColor = '#CCCCCC';
+ janrain.settings.buttonBorderRadius = '0';
+ janrain.settings.buttonBackgroundStyle = 'gray';
+ janrain.settings.language = '';
+ janrain.settings.linkClass = 'janrainEngage';
+
+ /* _______________ can edit above this line _______________ */
+
+ function isReady() { janrain.ready = true; };
+ if (document.addEventListener) {
+ document.addEventListener("DOMContentLoaded", isReady, false);
+ } else {
+ window.attachEvent('onload', isReady);
+ }
+
+ var e = document.createElement('script');
+ e.type = 'text/javascript';
+ e.id = 'janrainAuthWidget';
+
+ e.src = 'https://rpxnow.com/js/lib/login.slashdot.org/engage.js';
+
+ var s = document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0];
+ s.parentNode.insertBefore(e, s);
+ })();
+ </script>
+
+ <script src="//cdn-social.janrain.com/social/janrain-social.min.js"></script>
+ <script type="text/javascript">
+ (function($) {
+ $(function(){
+ janrain.settings.appUrl = "https://login.slashdot.org";
+ $twitter = $('body .janrain_twitterButton');
+ $twitter.append('<i class="icon-twitter"></i>');
+
+ janrain.settings.social = {
+ providers: [
+ "native-facebook",
+ "twitter",
+ "linkedin",
+ "native-googleplus",
+ "native-reddit"
+ ],
+ shareCountMin: "100",
+ shareCountMode: "combined"
+ };
+ });
+ })($j);
+ </script>
+ <!-- index2_variant ||-->
+
+ <!-- TABOOLA -->
+ <script type="text/javascript">
+ if (!window.is_euro_union) {
+ window._taboola = window._taboola || [];
+ _taboola.push({home:'auto'});
+ !function (e, f, u) {
+ e.async = 1;
+ e.src = u;
+ f.parentNode.insertBefore(e, f);
+ }(document.createElement('script'),
+ document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0],
+ '//cdn.taboola.com/libtrc/slashdot/loader.js');
+ }
+ </script>
+
+ <!-- html-header type=current end --><!-- header type=current begin -->
+
+
+
+ <link rel="top" title="News for nerds, stuff that matters" href="//slashdot.org/" >
+<link rel="search" title="Search Slashdot" href="//yro.slashdot.org/search.pl">
+<link rel="alternate" title="Slashdot RSS" href="http://rss.slashdot.org/Slashdot/slashdotYourRightsOnline" type="application/rss+xml">
+ <link rel="shortcut icon" href="/favicon.ico" type="image/x-icon">
+
+
+ <div id="top_parent"></div>
+ <a name="topothepage"></a>
+
+ <div class="container">
+ <div class="nav-wrap">
+ <nav class="nav-primary" role="navigation" aria-label="Global Navigation">
+ <h1 class="logo">
+ <a href="//slashdot.org"><span>Slashdot</span></a>
+</h1>
+
+<ul class="nav-site">
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org"><i class="icon-book" title="Stories"></i><span>Stories</span></a></li>
+ <li>
+ <ul class="filter-firehose">
+ <li class="nav-label">Firehose <i class="icon-angle-right"></i></li>
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org/recent">All</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org/popular">Popular</a></li>
+ </ul>
+ </li>
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org/polls"><i class="icon-chart-bar" title="Polls"></i><span>Polls</span></a></li>
+
+ <!--
+ <li><a href="//ask.slashdot.org"><i class="icon-question-circle"></i><span>Ask</span></a></li>
+
+ <li><a href="//events.slashdot.org"><i class="icon-calendar"></i><span>Events</span></a></li>
+ -->
+ <li><a href="http://deals.slashdot.org/?utm_source=slashdot&utm_medium=navbar&utm_campaign=dealshp_1" target="_blank"><i class="sd-mini" title="Deals"></i> <span>Deals</span></a></li>
+</ul>
+<a href="//slashdot.org/submission" class="btn btn-success">Submit</a>
+ </nav>
+ <nav class="nav-user" role="navigation" aria-label="user access and account controls">
+ <form id="search" class="form-inline nav-search-form" method="get" action="//slashdot.org/index2.pl">
+<!-- //yro.slashdot.org/index2.pl" -->
+ <div class="form-group">
+ <label class="sr-only" for="sitesearch">Search Slashdot</label>
+ <div class="input-group">
+ <input type="text" id="" class="" name="fhfilter" value="" placeholder="Search">
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <button type="submit" class="btn icon-search"></button>
+</form>
+<ul class="user-access">
+
+
+ <li >
+ <a href="//slashdot.org/my/login" onclick="show_login_box(); return false;"><i class="icon-login"></i><span> Login</span></a>
+
+ </li>
+
+
+
+ <li class="nav-label">or</li>
+
+
+
+ <li >
+ <a href="//slashdot.org/my/newuser" ><i class="icon-user-add"></i><span> Sign up</span></a>
+
+ </li>
+
+
+</ul>
+ </nav>
+ </div>
+ <div class="nav-secondary-wrap">
+ <nav class="nav-secondary" role="secondary-navigation">
+ <ul>
+ <li class="nav-label">Topics: </li>
+ <li><a href="//devices.slashdot.org">Devices</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//build.slashdot.org">Build</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//entertainment.slashdot.org">Entertainment</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//technology.slashdot.org">Technology</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org/?fhfilter=opensource">Open Source</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//science.slashdot.org">Science</a></li>
+ <li><a href="//yro.slashdot.org">YRO</a></li>
+ <!-- <li><a href="//slashdot.org/topics.pl">more...</a></li> -->
+ </ul>
+</nav>
+<nav class="nav-social" role="social navigation">
+ <ul>
+ <li class="nav-label">Follow us:</li>
+ <li><a href="http://rss.slashdot.org/Slashdot/slashdotMain" target="_blank"><i class="icon-rss-squared"></i><span class="sr-only">RSS</span></a></li>
+ <li><a href="http://www.facebook.com/slashdot" target="_blank"><i class="icon-facebook-squared"></i><span class="sr-only">Facebook</span></a></li>
+ <li><a href="https://plus.google.com/112601993642376762846/" target="_blank"><i class="icon-gplus-squared"></i><span class="sr-only">Google+</span></a></li>
+ <li><a href="http://twitter.com/slashdot" target="_blank"><i class="icon-twitter-squared"></i><span class="sr-only">Twitter</span></a></li>
+ <li><a href="//slashdot.org/newsletter" target="_blank"><i class="icon-mail-squared"></i><span class="sr-only">Newsletter</span></a></li>
+ </ul>
+</nav>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+
+ <section>
+
+ <div class="message-bar" id="firehose-message-tray">
+ <span class="icon-quote-left"></span>
+ <p>
+
+
+ Slashdot is powered by <strong><a href="//yro.slashdot.org/submission">your submissions</a></strong>, so send in your scoop
+
+ </p>
+ </div>
+
+
+ <div id='embbeded_login_modal' class="hide">
+<form action="https://slashdot.org/my/login" method="post" onsubmit="if (global_returnto) { this.returnto.value = global_returnto }" class="embedded"><fieldset style="-webkit-border-radius:10px 10px 0 0;border-radius:10px 10px 0 0;-moz-border-radius:10px 10px 0 0">
+<div style='height:25px;'> </div>
+ <input type="hidden" name="returnto" value="">
+ <input type="hidden" name="op" value="userlogin">
+ <p>
+ <label class="fleft" for="unickname">Nickname:</label>
+ <input type="text" name="unickname" value="">
+ </p>
+ <p>
+ <label class="fleft" for="upasswd">Password:</label>
+ <input type="password" name="upasswd" placeholder="6-1024 characters long">
+ </p>
+ <label class="checkbox"><input type="checkbox" name="login_temp" value="yes"> Public Terminal</label>
+ <br>
+ <hr>
+ <input type="submit" name="userlogin" value="Log In" class="fno"> <a href="//slashdot.org/my/mailpassword" class="btn link" onclick="getModalPrefs('sendPasswdModal', 'Retrieve Password', 1); return false;">Forgot your password?</a>
+</fieldset></form>
+
+<div id="janrainEngageEmbed"></div>
+<div class="actions">
+ <a class="ico close" onclick="hide_login_slider();" href=""><span>Close</span></a>
+</div>
+</div>
+
+
+ <div class="banner-wrapper">
+ <div class="adwrap adwrap-unviewed banner-contain">
+
+ <div id='div-gpt-ad-728x90_a'><script type='text/javascript'>
+googletag.cmd.push(function(){
+googletag.display('div-gpt-ad-728x90_a');});</script></div>
+ <div id='div-gpt-ad-hubicon_200x90_a'><script type='text/javascript'>
+googletag.cmd.push(function(){
+googletag.display('div-gpt-ad-hubicon_200x90_a');});</script></div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+
+ <a name="main-articles"></a>
+
+ <!-- header type=current end --><!-- body begin -->
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <style type="text/css">
+menu, menu * {
+ text-decoration:none;
+}
+
+menu[type=context] {
+ display:none;
+ position:absolute;
+ z-index:10000;
+}
+
+menu[type=context]:not(.brief) {
+ background-color:#dfdfdf;
+ margin:0;
+ padding:2px 0.5em;
+ border-style:solid;
+ border-width:1px;
+ border-color:#eeeeee #aaaaaa #aaaaaa #eeeeee;
+ -moz-border-radius-topright:.7em;
+ -webkit-border-top-right-radius: 0.7em 0.7em;
+}
+
+menu.full[type=context] > a.slash-hover:first-child {
+ -moz-border-radius-topright:.6em;
+ -webkit-border-top-right-radius: 0.6em 0.6em;
+}
+
+
+
+menu.brief[type=context] > a {
+ -moz-border-radius:.6em;
+ -webkit-border-radius: 0.6em;
+ color:#ffffff;
+ background-color:#000000;
+}
+
+/*
+span.briefmenu a.tag:not(.datatype) {
+ padding-left:.5em;
+}
+*/
+
+
+
+
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+ width:22px;
+ margin: 2px 10px 0 0;
+ color:rgb(255,255,255);
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+ text-align:center;
+ font-weight:bold;
+ font-size:14px;
+ border-width:1px;
+ border-style:solid;
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+article:not(.fhitem-story) .vote .up,article:not(.fhitem-story) .vote .down,article:not(.fhitem-story) .votedup .up,article:not(.fhitem-story) .votedup .down,article:not(.fhitem-story) .voteddown .up,article:not(.fhitem-story) .voteddown .down { /*text-shadow:none !important; */}
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+article:not(.fhitem-story) .votedup .up,article:not(.fhitem-story) .voteddown .down {background: rgb(174,174,174);background-image: -webkit-gradient(linear, 0% 0%, 0% 100%, from(rgb(174,174,174)), to(rgb(193,193,193)));background-image: -moz-linear-gradient(100% 100% 90deg,rgb(193,193,193), rgb(174,174,174) 100%);color:rgb(0,0,0);}
+article.fhitem-story .votedup .up,article.fhitem-story .voteddown .down {background: rgb(0,66,66);background-image: -webkit-gradient(linear, 0% 0%, 0% 100%, from(rgb(0,53,53)), to(rgb(0,102,102)));background-image: -moz-linear-gradient(100% 100% 90deg,rgb(0,102,102), rgb(0,53,53) 100%);}
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+#tag-menu span.var-tag {
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+color:#444444;
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+font-size:80%;
+-moz-border-radius:.5em;
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+background-image: -webkit-gradient(linear, 0% 0%, 0% 100%, from(rgb(153,153,153)), to(rgb(102,102,102)));
+color:#fff;
+text-decoration:none;
+font-weignt:normal;
+}
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+article.fhitem-story menu.reasons-menu a:hover {
+background:#002323 !important;
+background:-moz-linear-gradient(100% 100% 90deg, #002323, #005353 70%) repeat scroll 0 0 #002323 !important;
+background-image: -webkit-gradient(linear, 0% 0%, 0% 100%, from(#005353), to(#002323)) !important;
+}
+
+
+menu.reasons-menu {
+ display:none;
+ margin:0;
+ padding:0;
+}
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+div.fhitem h3 menu.reasons-menu {
+margin:0.25em 0 0;
+}
+
+div.fhitem h3 menu.reasons-menu a.tag {
+font-size:.8em;
+}
+
+#tag-menu a.slash-hover,
+#feedback-menu a.slash-hover,
+
+.tag-display span.tag:hover,
+.tag-display span.tag.trigger {
+ color:white;
+ background-color:rgb(0, 85, 85);
+}
+
+#tag-menu a.slash-hover span.var-tag {
+ color:#eee;
+}
+
+.tag-entry.default {
+ color:#ccc;
+}
+
+.brief .nix {
+ margin-top:-1.35em;
+ margin-left:0px;
+ margin-top:-1.15em;
+ text-decoration:none;
+ line-height:1.35em;
+ padding:0 2px;
+ -moz-border-radius:.6em 0 0 .6em;
+ -webkit-border-radius:.6em 0 0 .6em;
+ -o-border-radius:.6em 0 0 .6em;
+ border-radius:.6em 0 0 .6em;
+ color:#fff !important;
+ background:transparent !important;
+}
+
+.brief .nix:hover {
+ background:rgb(153,153,153) !important;
+ background:-moz-linear-gradient(100% 100% 90deg, rgb(102,102,102), rgb(153,153,153) 70%) repeat scroll 0 0 rgb(102,102,102) !important;
+ background-image: -webkit-gradient(linear, 0% 0%, 0% 100%, from(rgb(153,153,153)), to(rgb(102,102,102))) !important;
+}
+
+</style>
+
+<menu id="nix-reasons" style="display:none">
+ <a class="tag">binspam</a><a class="tag">dupe</a><a class="tag">notthebest</a><a class="tag">offtopic</a><a class="tag">slownewsday</a><a class="tag">stale</a><a class="tag">stupid</a>
+</menu>
+<menu id="nod-reasons" style="display:none">
+ <a class="tag">fresh</a><a class="tag">funny</a><a class="tag">insightful</a><a class="tag">interesting</a><a class="tag">maybe</a>
+</menu>
+<menu id="comment-nix-reasons" style="display:none">
+ <a class="tag">offtopic</a><a class="tag">flamebait</a><a class="tag">troll</a><a class="tag">redundant</a><a class="tag">overrated</a>
+</menu>
+<menu id="comment-nod-reasons" style="display:none">
+ <a class="tag">insightful</a><a class="tag">interesting</a><a class="tag">informative</a><a class="tag">funny</a><a class="tag">underrated</a>
+</menu>
+
+<menu id="tag-nod-reasons" style="display:none">
+ <a class="tag">descriptive</a>
+</menu>
+<menu id="feedback-menu" class="tag-menu-admin" type="context">
+ <a class="tag">typo</a><a class="tag">dupe</a><a class="tag">error</a>
+</menu>
+<menu id="tag-menu" class="tag-menu-admin none" type="context">
+
+<!-- <a data-op="!" class="nix">!<span class="var-tag hide"></span></a>-->
+
+</menu>
+
+<script type="text/javascript">
+$(function(){
+var $CURRENT_MENU, $TAG_MENU=$('#tag-menu'), NOTNOT=/^!!/, IE7=/^7\.0/, TAG_PREFIX=/^\/tag\//;
+
+function get_tag_name( $tag ){
+ return ($tag.attr('href') || '').replace(TAG_PREFIX, '') || $tag.text().toLowerCase();
+}
+
+function trigger_menu( e, selector, $menu, menu_content ){
+ var $target=$(original_target(e, selector)), in_use=$target.is('.trigger');
+ if ( $CURRENT_MENU ) {
+ $CURRENT_MENU.menu('cancel', e);
+ $CURRENT_MENU = null;
+ }
+
+ if ( !in_use ) {
+ menu_content && $menu.stop(true, true).hide().html(menu_content);
+ ($CURRENT_MENU=$menu).menu('context', e);
+ }
+ return !in_use;
+}
+
+function open_menu( trigger, $menu ){
+ var $trigger=$(trigger), $fhitem=$trigger.closest('.fhitem');
+ $fhitem.length && user_intent('interest', $fhitem[0]);
+
+ $menu.appendTo(document.body).css({ opacity:0 }).show();
+
+ var right = $fhitem.offset().left + $fhitem.width(),
+ global = $trigger.offset(),
+ local = $menu.offsetParent().offset();
+
+ // Ugly IE position hack required:
+ $.browser.msie && IE7.test($.browser.version) && (local.top = 0);
+
+ // pin the menu (horizontally) on-screen
+ global.left = Math.min(global.left, right-$menu.width());
+
+ $trigger.addClass('trigger');
+ $menu.css({
+ position: 'absolute',
+ top: global.top - local.top + $trigger.height(),
+ left: global.left - local.left,
+ opacity: 1
+ });
+}
+
+function close_menu( trigger, $menu ){
+ $menu.hide();
+ $(trigger).removeClass('trigger');
+ ($CURRENT_MENU===$menu) && ($CURRENT_MENU=false);
+}
+
+/* T2 tag context-menu */
+var $TAG_MENU=$('#tag-menu'), NOTNOT=/^!!/;
+
+
+ var user_is_admin = 0;
+
+
+
+$('a[rel=tag]').live('mousedown',function(ea){
+ window.open(this.href);
+ return false;
+})
+
+$('.tag-bar .disagree').live('mousedown',function(ee){
+ var fhitem = $(original_target(ee)).closest('.fhitem')[0],
+ command = ('!' + $(original_target(ee)).attr("data-tag")).replace(NOTNOT, '');
+ try { Tags.submit(fhitem, command); } catch ( err ) { }
+ return false;
+})
+
+
+
+$('a[rel=tag]').
+ live('mousedown', function( e ){
+
+ return true;
+
+
+ }).
+ live('click', function( e ){
+ if ( !logged_in ) {
+ var target = original_target(e),
+ tag = $(target).text();
+ addfhfilter(tag);
+ }
+ e.preventDefault();
+ return false;
+ });
+
+$TAG_MENU.menu({
+ cssNamespace: 'slash',
+ liveTriggers: true,
+ clickDuration: 300,
+
+ start: function( e, ui ){
+ var $tag = $(ui.trigger),
+ tag = get_tag_name($tag),
+ context = firehose_settings && firehose_settings.viewtitle;
+
+ // Insert the tagname into the menu items where needed.
+ $TAG_MENU.find('span.var-tag').text(tag);
+ $TAG_MENU.find('a.nix').attr('title','not ' + tag);
+
+
+ // non-admins may only delete their own tags
+ $TAG_MENU.find('a:[data-op="-"]').toggle($tag.is('.my'));
+
+
+ // *tagname* in *viewtitle*
+ $TAG_MENU.find('a:[data-op="="]').toggle(!!context);
+ context && $TAG_MENU.find('span.var-view').text(context);
+
+ open_menu($tag, $TAG_MENU);
+ },
+
+ select: function( e, ui ){
+ var $tag = $(ui.trigger),
+ tag = get_tag_name($tag),
+ op = $(ui.select).attr('data-op'),
+ fhitem,
+ command;
+
+ // Global for positioning other things.
+ $related_trigger = $tag;
+
+ switch ( op ) {
+ case '=':
+ addfhfilter(tag);
+ break;
+
+ default:
+ fhitem = $tag.closest('.fhitem')[0];
+ command = (op + tag).replace(NOTNOT, '');
+ try { Tags.submit(fhitem, command); } catch ( err ) { }
+ break;
+ }
+ },
+
+ stop: function( e, ui ){ close_menu(ui.trigger, $TAG_MENU); }
+});
+
+
+
+
+/* T2 feedback context-menu */
+
+
+
+/* T2 datatype context-menu (admin-only) */
+
+
+
+
+
+
+});
+</script>
+
+
+
+<!-- SMACKS: BEGIN STORY CONTENT -->
+<div class="container">
+ <!--SMACKS: BEGING CENTER COLUMN -->
+ <div class="main-wrap has-rail-right">
+ <div class="main-content">
+ <div class="grid_24 a2 ">
+ </div>
+ <div id="firehose" class="nothumbs">
+ <div id="firehoselist" class="fhroot fleft grid_24">
+ <div id="announcement">
+ <div id="announcementText" style="display: none;"> <span class="headline">Migrate from GitHub to SourceForge quickly and easily with <strong><a href="https://sourceforge.net/p/forge/documentation/GitHub%20Importer/">this tool</a></strong>.</span> Check out all of SourceForge’s <strong><a href="https://sourceforge.net/blog/brief-history-sourceforge-look-to-future/">recent improvements.</a></strong></div>
+ <a href="" class="btn-close" title="don't show me this again" onclick="closeAnnouncement(); return false;">×</a>
+</div>
+
+
+<script type="text/javascript">
+
+if (!$.cookie('hide_sitenotice_36')) {
+ $('#announcement').fadeIn(300);
+}
+
+function closeAnnouncement() {
+ $('#announcement').fadeOut(300);
+ $.cookie('hide_sitenotice_36', 'true', { path: '/', domain: 'slashdot.org', expires: 1 });
+}
+</script>
+ <article id="firehose-102637536" data-fhid="102637536" data-fhtype="story" class="fhitem fhitem-story article usermode thumbs grid_24">
+ <span class="sd-info-block" style="display: none">
+ <span class="sd-key-firehose-id">102637536</span>
+ <span class="type">story</span>
+
+ </span>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<header>
+
+ <span class="topic" id="topic-102637536">
+ <a href="//yro.slashdot.org/index2.pl?fhfilter=firefox" onclick="return addfhfilter('firefox');">
+
+ <img src="//a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/firefox_64.png" width="64" height="64" alt="Firefox" title="Firefox">
+
+ </a>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <a href="//yro.slashdot.org/index2.pl?fhfilter=privacy" onclick="return addfhfilter('privacy');">
+
+ <img src="//a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/privacy_64.png" width="64" height="64" alt="Privacy" title="Privacy">
+
+ </a>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <a href="//yro.slashdot.org/index2.pl?fhfilter=it" onclick="return addfhfilter('it');">
+
+ <img src="//a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/it_64.png" width="64" height="64" alt="IT" title="IT">
+
+ </a>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <a href="//yro.slashdot.org/index2.pl?fhfilter=technology" onclick="return addfhfilter('technology');">
+
+ <img src="//a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/technology_64.png" width="64" height="64" alt="Technology" title="Technology">
+
+ </a>
+ </span>
+
+
+ <h2 class="story">
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <span id="title-102637536" class="story-title"> <a href="//yro.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1651255/tor-browser-gets-a-redesign-switches-to-new-firefox-quantum-engine">Tor Browser Gets a Redesign, Switches To New Firefox Quantum Engine</a> <span class=" no extlnk"><a class="story-sourcelnk" href="https://www.zdnet.com/article/tor-browser-gets-a-redesign-switches-to-new-firefox-quantum-engine/" title="External link - https://www.zdnet.com/article/tor-browser-gets-a-redesign-switches-to-new-firefox-quantum-engine/" target="_blank"> (zdnet.com) </a></span></span>
+
+
+
+ <!--<span class="comments commentcnt-102637536" >44</span>-->
+
+
+
+ <!-- comment bubble -->
+
+ <span class="comment-bubble"><a href="//yro.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1651255/tor-browser-gets-a-redesign-switches-to-new-firefox-quantum-engine#comments" title="">44</a></span>
+
+ </h2>
+ <div class="details" id="details-102637536">
+ <span class="story-details">
+ <span class="story-views">
+ <span class="sodify" onclick="firehose_set_options('color', 'red')" title="Filter Firehose to entries rated red or better"></span><span class="icon-beaker pop1 " alt="Popularity" title="Filter Firehose to entries rated red or better" onclick="firehose_set_options('color', 'red')"><span></span></span>
+ </span>
+ </span>
+ <span class="story-byline">
+
+
+ Posted
+ by
+
+
+
+ msmash
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <time id="fhtime-102637536" datetime="on Thursday September 06, 2018 @02:00PM">on Thursday September 06, 2018 @02:00PM</time>
+
+
+ from the <span class="dept-text">for-the-record</span> dept.
+
+ </span>
+ </div>
+</header>
+
+<div class="body" id="fhbody-102637536">
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <div id="text-102637536" class="p">
+
+
+ The Tor Browser has <a href="https://www.zdnet.com/article/tor-browser-gets-a-redesign-switches-to-new-firefox-quantum-engine/">rolled out a new interface with the release of v8</a>. From a report:<i> The Tor Browser has always been based on the Firefox codebase, but it lagged behind a few releases. Mozilla rolled out a major overhaul of the Firefox codebase in November 2017, with the release of Firefox 57, <a href="https://news.slashdot.org/story/17/11/25/1938225/firefox-quantum-is-better-faster-smarter-than-chrome-says-wired">the first release in the Firefox Quantum series</a>. Firefox Quantum came with a new page rendering engine, a new add-ons API, and a new user interface called the Photon UI. Because these were major, code-breaking changes, it took the smaller Tor team some time to integrate all of them into the Tor Browser codebase and make sure everything worked as intended. The new Tor Browser 8, released yesterday, is now in sync with the most recent version of Firefox, the Quantum release, and also supports all of its features. This means the Tor Browser now uses the same modern Photon UI that current Firefox versions use, it supports the same speed-optimized page rendering engine and has also dropped support for the old XUL-based add-ons system for the new WebExtensions API system used by Chrome, Opera, Vivaldi, Brave, and the rest of the Chromium browsers.</i><br>
+
+ </div>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ </div>
+ <aside class="grid_24 view_mode">
+
+ <div class="units-12 story-detail-tags">
+ <span id="sharethis-102637536" class="">
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <div class="story-controls">
+ <div
+ class="janrainSocialPlaceholder"
+ data-janrain-url="https://yro.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1651255/tor-browser-gets-a-redesign-switches-to-new-firefox-quantum-engine"
+ data-janrain-title="Tor Browser Gets a Redesign, Switches To New Firefox Quantum Engine"
+ data-janrain-message="Tor Browser Gets a Redesign, Switches To New Firefox Quantum Engine @slashdot"
+ ></div>
+ </div>
+
+
+ </span>
+
+ <div class="story-tags">
+ <div class="tright tw">
+
+ <span class="tright tags">
+
+ <menu type="toolbar" class="edit-bar">
+ <span id="tagbar-102637536" class="tag-bar none">
+ <a class="topic tag" rel="statictag" href="//slashdot.org/tag/" target="_blank"></a>
+<a class="popular tag" rel="statictag" href="//slashdot.org/tag/firefox" target="_blank">firefox</a>
+<a class="popular tag" rel="statictag" href="//slashdot.org/tag/it" target="_blank">it</a>
+<a class="popular tag" rel="statictag" href="//slashdot.org/tag/privacy" target="_blank">privacy</a>
+
+ </span>
+
+ <a class="edit-toggle" href="/my/login/" onclick="show_login_box();return false;">
+ <span class="icon-tag btn collapse"></span>
+ </a>
+
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+ <div class="tag-menu">
+ <input class="tag-entry default" type="text" value="apply tags">
+ </div>
+
+
+
+
+
+ </menu>
+
+ </span>
+
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ <section class="grid_24" id="newa2footerv2">
+ <div class="grid_6 pr">
+ <h3><a title="Previous story" href="//hardware.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1719243/robot-boat-sails-into-history-by-finishing-atlantic-crossing?sdsrc=prev">←</a></h3>
+ </div>
+ <div class="grid_12 rl">
+ <h3>Related Links</h3>
+ </div>
+ <div class="grid_6 ns">
+ <h3><a title="Next story" href="//tech.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1839242/google-investigating-issue-with-blurry-fonts-on-new-chrome-69?sdsrc=next">→</a></h3>
+ </div>
+ <div class="grid_6">
+ <span class="c">
+ <a href="//hardware.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1719243/robot-boat-sails-into-history-by-finishing-atlantic-crossing?sdsrc=prev">Robot Boat Sails Into History By Finishing Atlantic Crossing </a>
+ </span>
+ </div>
+ <div class="grid_12">
+ <span class="c">
+
+
+ <h3><a href="//news.slashdot.org/story/17/11/25/1938225/firefox-quantum-is-better-faster-smarter-than-chrome-says-wired?sdsrc=rel">Firefox Quantum Is 'Better, Faster, Smarter than Chrome', Says Wired</a></h3><script type="text/javascript">
+ (function($){
+ $('.js_disp_only').show();
+ $('a.jshandle_related').on('click', '', function(e) {
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+ window.location = url
+ });
+ })($j);
+ </script>
+
+ </span>
+ </div>
+ <div class="grid_6">
+ <span class="c">
+
+ <a href="//tech.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1839242/google-investigating-issue-with-blurry-fonts-on-new-chrome-69?sdsrc=next">Google Investigating Issue With Blurry Fonts on new Chrome 69</a>
+
+ </span>
+ </div>
+ </section>
+
+
+
+ </aside>
+
+
+
+
+ </article>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <!-- SMACKS: BEGIN RIGHT RAIL -->
+ <aside id="slashboxes" class="rail-right">
+
+ <div id="slashboxesin" class="yui-b">
+
+
+
+ </div>
+ <div class="railad adwrap-unviewed">
+<div id='div-gpt-ad-300x250_a'><script type='text/javascript'>
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+<script type="text/javascript">
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+ placement: 'Below Article Thumbnails',
+ target_type: 'mix'
+ });
+ };
+</script>
+
+ </aside>
+ <!-- SMACKS: END RIGHT RAIL -->
+</div>
+<!-- END STORY CONTENT -->
+
+<!-- THIS IS THE LOCATION FOR THE NEW STORY_B CODE -->
+<div class="adwrap">
+<div id='div-gpt-ad-728x90_b'><script type='text/javascript'>
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+ <div style="margin:auto;max-width:970px;max-height:250px;">
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+<ul id="group_57265024">
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+
+<ul id="commtree_57265024"><li id="tree_57265064" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265064" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265064" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265064" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265064" name="comment_link_57265064" href="//yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579982&cid=57265064" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265064)" >Re: Isn't page render speed pretty irrelevant for </a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265064" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265064); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>1</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span>Anonymous Coward</span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265064"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265064"><p>Not when you have the assets already cached. Most people donâ(TM)t just visit a site once. I was playing with it this morning. Itâ(TM)s a decent speed improvement even within the restraints of tor</p><p>More impressively msmash posted an actual tech article not a biasedpolitical article for a change. Losing too many readers now I suspect</p></div>
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+<div id="comment_status_57265076" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265076" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265076" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265076" name="comment_link_57265076" href="//yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579982&cid=57265076" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265076)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265076" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265076); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>3</a>, Insightful)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Tough+Love">Tough Love</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Tough+Love">( 215404 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265076"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265076"><p><div class="quote"><p>It's not like a new page renderer is going to solve that.</p></div><p>The point is to be synced up to the current Firefox codebase. Which by the way is awesome. I have all my favorite extensions running, in spite of all the FUD about the new Webextensions API.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265076">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265076"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265076">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265076" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57265076"><li id="tree_57265430" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265430" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265430" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265430" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265430" name="comment_link_57265430" href="//yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579982&cid=57265430" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265430)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265430" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265430); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Tough+Love">Tough Love</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Tough+Love">( 215404 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265430"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265430"><p><div class="quote"><p><div class="quote"><p>It's not like a new page renderer is going to solve that.</p></div><p>The point is to be synced up to the current Firefox codebase. Which by the way is awesome. I have all my favorite extensions running, in spite of all the FUD about the new Webextensions API.</p></div><p>Why would anybody mod that comment troll?</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265430">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265430"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265430">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265430" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57265430"><li id="tree_57265542" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265542" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265542" class="cw">
+</div>
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+<div id="replyto_57265542"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265542">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265542" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57265542"><li id="tree_57265564" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265564" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265564" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265564" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265564" name="comment_link_57265564" href="//yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579982&cid=57265564" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265564)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265564" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265564); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~Tough+Love">Tough Love</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~Tough+Love">( 215404 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265564"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265564"><p>It is FUD. Firefox's extension ecology is as vibrant as ever, but far more secure. And if somebody disagrees, they should do so instead of taking the belly slither route.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265564">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265564"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57265564">
+ <li id="hiddens_57265564" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57265564"><li id="tree_57267292" class="comment hidden"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267292" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267292" class="cw">
+</div>
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+<div id="replyto_57267292"></div>
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+<ul id="group_57267292">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267292" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+<ul id="commtree_57267292"><li id="tree_57267340" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57267340" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267340" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57267340" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57267340" name="comment_link_57267340" href="//yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579982&cid=57267340" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57267340)" >Re:</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57267340" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57267340); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~theweatherelectric">theweatherelectric</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~theweatherelectric">( 2007596 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57267340"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57267340">You can use the built-in <a href="https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-reader-view-clutter-free-web-pages" title="mozilla.org">Reader View</a> [mozilla.org] for a lot of pages, but it's not available for all pages. It depends on the page structure.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57267340">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267340"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267340">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267340" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
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+<div id="comment_status_57267590" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57267590" class="cw">
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57267590"></div>
+
+<ul id="group_57267590">
+ <li id="hiddens_57267590" class="hide"></li>
+</ul>
+
+</li><li id="hidestring_57265024"><noscript><b class='more'><span class="ind"></span><a href="//yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579982&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=57265024">2 replies</a> beneath your current threshold.</b></noscript></li></ul></li><li id="tree_57265034" class="comment oneline"><span class="ind"></span>
+<div id="comment_status_57265034" class="commentstatus"></div>
+<div id="comment_57265034" class="cw">
+ <div id="comment_top_57265034" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265034" name="comment_link_57265034" href="//yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579982&cid=57265034" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265034)" >Tested today</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265034" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265034); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>1</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span>Anonymous Coward</span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265034"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265034"><p>First impression is I like it. Video playback seems sluggish but overall positive. Hopefully any NSA addons did not make the cut.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265034">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57265034"></div>
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+<div id="comment_status_57265208" class="commentstatus"></div>
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+ <div id="comment_top_57265208" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265208" name="comment_link_57265208" href="//yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579982&cid=57265208" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265208)" >Who can afford to run a tor exit node ?</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265208" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265208); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>4</a>, Interesting)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~dargaud">dargaud</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~dargaud">( 518470 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265208"> <<a href="mailto:%60ten.duagradg'+%60ta'+%602todhsals'">`ten.duagradg' `ta' `2todhsals'</a>>
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @02:38PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579982&cid=57265208">#57265208</a>)
+ <small><a href="http://www.gdargaud.net/" title="http://www.gdargaud.net/" class="user_homepage_display">Homepage</a> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265208">I really wonder that. I support tor. I've never actually used it because I don't have much to hide, but I understand that other do. So I ran a tor relay (not exit) as my way of supporting the project for a while; from my home adsl. After a while I noticed some weird stuff going on. Some websites (important ones) wouldn't load properly. Emails sent would bounce or simply never reach their destination. After looking at the problem I found that my IP was on some minor blacklists. I stopped the relay and after 2 days I was off the blacklists. Hence my question, if running a simple relay gets you blacklisted, what does running an exit point does to your other internet usage from that IP ? Who can afford separate IPs besides institutions ? So who is really really running them ? Certainly not private citizens...</div>
+ </div>
+
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+ <div id="comment_top_57265576" class="commentTop newcomment">
+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265576" name="comment_link_57265576" href="//yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579982&cid=57265576" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265576)" >Re:</a>
+
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+ <span id="comment_score_57265576" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265576); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>3</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~ftobin">ftobin</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~ftobin">( 48814 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265576"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265576"><p>You can run something like a Linode instance pretty cheaply and get more IPs. I've run a highly restricted exit node in the past (low bandwidth, select ports), and I've had the same problems with you if I try to use my Linode as a web proxy. My most recent problem has been with Shut Up and Sit Down RSS feeds, which are blocking my host<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-\</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57265576">
+
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+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57265836" name="comment_link_57265836" href="//yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579982&cid=57265836" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57265836)" >Re:Who can afford to run a tor exit node ?</a>
+
+
+ <span id="comment_score_57265836" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57265836); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>4</a>, Informative)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~tlhIngan">tlhIngan</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~tlhIngan">( 30335 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57265836"> <<a href="mailto:%5Bten.frow%5D+%5Bta%5D+%5Btodhsals%5D">[ten.frow] [ta] [todhsals]</a>>
+ on Thursday September 06, 2018 @04:35PM (<span class="ind"></span><a href="//yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579982&cid=57265836">#57265836</a>)
+ <small> </small>
+</span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57265836"><blockquote><div><p>You can run something like a Linode instance pretty cheaply and get more IPs. I've run a highly restricted exit node in the past (low bandwidth, select ports), and I've had the same problems with you if I try to use my Linode as a web proxy. My most recent problem has been with Shut Up and Sit Down RSS feeds, which are blocking my host<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-\</p></div></blockquote><p>And that's just because no matter how noble the cause, idiots will just ruin it. You don't need a list of Tor exit nodes because if you run a reasonably popular website, you'll find out quite rapidly what they are and auto-blacklist t hem.</p><p>It's why CDNs like CloudFlare block Tor - the abuse from Tor exit nodes ensures that whatever trigger you use, it'll be triggered and you'll end up blocking it. It's not like it's done deliberately - you don't have to seek out new Tor exit nodes. They just make themselves known.</p><p>I'd even venture to say if you want to allow Tor traffic, you have to whitelist them specifically It's not that Tor is bad, it's just that it's got a bunch of bad actors that really do ruin it for those who need it.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
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+
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~ftobin">ftobin</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~ftobin">( 48814 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266048"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266048"><blockquote><div><p>And that's just because no matter how noble the cause, idiots will just ruin it. You don't need a list of Tor exit nodes because if you run a reasonably popular website, you'll find out quite rapidly what they are and auto-blacklist t hem.</p></div></blockquote><p>I should mention that I don't and never did allow access on port 80 or 443, yet Shut up and Sit Down's RSS feed blocks me. There is no way my host was causing issues for their site, with the 20 KB/s of bandwidth I allowed. Additionally, I only allowed ports like IRC, DN<span class="substr"> </span></p></div>
+ </div>
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+ <div class="title">
+ <h4><a id="comment_link_57266502" name="comment_link_57266502" href="//yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12579982&cid=57266502" onclick="return D2.setFocusComment(57266502)" >Re:</a>
+
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+ <span id="comment_score_57266502" class="score"> (<a href="#" onclick="getModalPrefs('modcommentlog', 'Moderation Comment Log', 57266502); return false"><span class=opt>Score:</span>2</a>)</span></h4>
+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~bill_mcgonigle">bill_mcgonigle</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~bill_mcgonigle">( 4333 )</a></span></a> <a href="/faq/subscriptions.shtml#subscription_other_advantages">*</a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266502"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266502"><p>Check out the Library Freedom Project.</p></div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266502">
+
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+</div>
+
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~AHuxley">AHuxley</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~AHuxley">( 892839 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266520"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266520">Governments.</div>
+ </div>
+
+ <div class="commentSub" id="comment_sub_57266520">
+
+</div>
+</div>
+
+<div id="replyto_57266520"></div>
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+ <div class="title">
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+
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+ </div>
+ <div class="details">
+ <span class="by"><span class="byby">by </span><a href="//slashdot.org/~AHuxley">AHuxley</a> <span class="uid"><a href="//slashdot.org/~AHuxley">( 892839 )</a></span></a></span><span class="writes" style="display:none"> writes:</span>
+ <span class="otherdetails" id="comment_otherdetails_57266532"></span>
+ </div>
+ </div>
+ <div class="commentBody">
+ <div id="comment_body_57266532">NSA, CIA, GCHQ did not worry about anonymous communication.<br>
+Police with lots of cash per investigation at a national level don't worry about anonymous communication anymore.</div>
+ </div>
+
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