1 SOFTWARE DEVELOPERS ARE NOW MORE VALUABLE TO COMPANIES THAN
2 MONEY, SAYS SURVEY (CNBC.COM)
4 Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (BeauHD)
5 from the new-breed-of-corporate-leaders dept.
7 o Reference: 0102640098
8 o News link: https://developers.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2024232/software-developers-are-now-more-valuable-to-companies-than-money-says-survey
9 o Source link: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/06/companies-worry-more-about-access-to-software-developers-than-capital.html
12 An anonymous reader quotes a report from CNBC: As our global
13 economy increasingly comes to run on technology-enabled rails
14 and every company becomes a tech company, demand for
15 high-quality software engineers is at an all-time high. A
16 recent study from Stripe and Harris Poll found that 61 percent
17 of C-suite executives believe access to developer talent is a
18 threat to the success of their business. Perhaps more
19 surprisingly -- as we mark a decade after the financial crisis
20 -- this threat was even ranked above capital constraints. And
21 yet, despite being many corporations' most precious resource,
22 developer talents are all too often squandered. Collectively,
23 companies today lose upward of $300 billion a year paying down
24 "technical debt," as developers pour time into maintaining
25 legacy systems or dealing with the ramifications of bad
26 software. This is especially worrisome, given the outsized
27 impact developers have on companies' chances of success.
28 Software developers don't have a monopoly on good ideas, but
29 their skill set makes them a uniquely deep source of
30 innovation, productivity and new economic connections. When
31 deployed correctly, developers can be economic multipliers --
32 coefficients that dramatically ratchet up the output of the
33 teams and companies of which they're a part.
36 ** So why not treat them well? (Score:5, Insightful)
37 (by gweihir ( 88907 ))
40 Naa, that would be un-capitalist. Developers must be cheap
41 wage-slaves that do not have a real career-path and are unable
42 to find a job once they hit 50. That will surely not have any
43 impact on whether smart people go into software writing or not,
46 ** Re: So why not treat them well? (Score:1)
47 (by Dannis12345 ( 5512754 ))
50 This is really true. As the fact that the IT leads the world.
56 (by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ))
59 > But even so, I hear these horror stories about how
60 > software developers are treated and I just have not seen
62 Me neither. I have worked for companies that had catered
63 meals, free soda, laundry service, sky diving bonding
64 trips, etc. I have had plenty of opportunities to travel.
65 I have worked some late nights, and done a few death
66 marches, but those only lasted a few weeks, out of a
67 career lasting decades.
68 Software developers are likely the most spoiled employees
69 in the history of the world.
70 People will alway whine.
73 (by gweihir ( 88907 ))
76 > People will alway whine.
77 And there you are wrong. I have a pretty good career
78 myself. But I see how many coders are treated and I am
79 not surprised at all that there are by far not enough
83 (by NicknameUnavailable ( 4134147 ))
86 As much as I'm for better treatment and perks for
87 coders, the issue of "not enough good ones" isn't
88 because of that. There's only so many smart people,
89 dumb people and mediocre people don't make good
90 coders. Some of the above-average ones might make
91 the cut as maintenance coders or some incredibly
92 soul-crushing AGILE environment where they don't
93 actually have to think, but for the most part any
94 programming position of note requires a 150+ IQ to
95 do even moderately well.
100 (by HornWumpus ( 783565 ))
103 How many 3+ standard deviation people are we
104 supposed to believe you know?
105 Same crit as you gave the GP. I doubt you know
111 (by gweihir ( 88907 ))
114 The issue is very much that a lot of the few
115 people that could be good at it, see the working
116 conditions and career options and go somewhere
117 else. Also, 150+IQ people basically do not exist.
118 I gather this is some wired non-standard US
122 (by _Sharp'r_ ( 649297 ))
125 Having a measured IQ >150, I can tell you with
126 my excellent two-minute Googling skills there
127 are approximately 300K in the U.S. if you're
128 using the Stanford-Binet scale. For the
129 Wechsler scale, it's more like 140K, which is
130 still a lot of people. Heck, the Prometheus
131 Society's cut-off for membership is 160+. I
132 guess to you, they basically don't exist...
136 (by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ))
139 > ... see the working conditions and career
140 > options and go somewhere else.
142 Doctors, lawyers and investment bankers work
143 longer hours than programmers. Nearly everyone
144 else makes less money.
145 Maybe they become underwater welders?
153 ** Re:So why not treat them well? (Score:5, Interesting)
154 (by spagthorpe ( 111133 ))
157 It won't really have any impact, because young people don't
158 think they'll ever get old. Or it will be different for them.
159 Had a 20-something at my last job make a number of comments
160 about some of the older developers there, saying they'd hate
161 to still be working at that age, and that they are probably
162 stuck doing the same work because they can't learn anything
163 new. I don't know why he was telling me this, as I was twice
164 his age at the time, but it's obvious that he doesn't think
165 he'll be in the same position.
166 They ultimately did lay off a lot of their senior engineers
167 and replace a lot of the position with 20-somethings,
168 including in project management positions. A number of those
169 projects never saw the light of day after years of re-writes
173 ** And yet there's agile (Score:2)
174 (by xxxJonBoyxxx ( 565205 ))
177 And open concept offices.
179 ** Re:And yet there's agile (Score:5, Interesting)
180 (by Seven Spirals ( 4924941 ))
183 I've quit one job and refused two others because of open
184 offices. The two I refused were absolutely flabbergasted by
185 my refusal. They literally could not understand why anyone
186 wouldn't want to be in an open office space surrounded on 3.8
187 sides by glass-walled manager offices, loud ugly marketing
188 girls, and a bunch of H1B dudes who couldn't be bothered to
189 wear deodorant. That place (MX Logic) had the worst looking
190 office I've ever seen. One of them offered me the job on the
191 spot after the interview and I was already shutting them down
192 and refusing it before they even got started. I told them
193 there is about a zero percent chance of getting anyone really
194 talented to take the gig, because they had this ridiculous
195 noisy slave pit thing going. I nearly left before I even
196 *did* the interview I was so disgusted with the place. The
197 hiring manager was (of course) offended, but he was also
198 clueless. About a year after that interview I had a guy come
199 up to me at the local Maker Space who was one of the
200 "technical resources" for the company during the interview
201 (quiet guy in the back of the room). He told me "My god was I
202 cheering when you refused them over the goddamn open
203 workspace idiocy. My boss was upset over that for weeks. They
204 still talk about it during the hiring process and argue about
208 (by bkmoore ( 1910118 ))
211 > ....One of them offered me the job on the spot after the
212 > interview and I was already shutting them down and
213 > refusing it before they even got started.....
214 It begs the question, why even apply there in the first
218 (by Klaxton ( 609696 ))
221 > It begs the question, why even apply there in the first
223 So you could see their office environment tucked away
224 behind the job description on the internet?
229 (by Ocker3 ( 1232550 ))
232 "But I can See everyone and I know that they're working" -
233 Manager If someone doesn't know enough about their direct
234 report's job that they don't know whether they're working
235 or not without seeing them at their desk, there's a
236 problem. Not all jobs are reduced in efficiency by a
237 cubicle farm, but if your job is primarily about mental
238 focus for the time-intensive tasks, then most people will
239 benefit from having their own room. And the employer will
240 probably benefit enough that an actual room is a
245 (by erp_consultant ( 2614861 ))
248 Sounds like a real horror show. Safe to say you made the
254 (by Klaxton ( 609696 ))
257 I've worked in the industry for many years, usually with a
258 private office or shared with one person. Recently got a job
259 in an agile "scrum" shop, which went to an open floorplan a
260 few months later. Miserable experience on both counts. Every
261 day you get a Jira work ticket for some "the user wants to
262 see" granule of a thing that you had no part in designing.
263 Zero privacy. It is amazingly de-motivating.
269 (by HornWumpus ( 783565 ))
272 Microsoft owns javascript? You have things backwards.
275 (by gweihir ( 88907 ))
278 I was thinking the same thing. Although JavaScript, Java,
279 and the surrounding ecosystems could have come from MS, no
284 ** Yeah, right (Score:5, Insightful)
285 (by Anonymous Coward)
288 If they considered developers more important than money, they'd
289 pay the developers more to keep the skilled ones. Every time a
290 developer leaves a company, a hunk of business knowledge walks
291 out the door with him.
292 Companies care about that quarter's finance report, and the
293 C-level execs care only about fleecing the company for all they
294 can stuff into their own pockets. Look at what they do, not what
299 ** Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
300 (by Anonymous Coward)
303 LOL. You've massively understated the ageism and the issue
304 of job qualifications.
305 First, the ageism problem is associated also with a
306 problem that people aren't allowed to take breaks. After
307 having great success even to the point of being a chief
308 architect on an 80-man program, I quit working for a while
309 and now can't find anyone who will let me start at the
311 But, the job qualification thing is really ridiculous. A
312 good software engineer is a specialist at picking up new
313 domains, languages, frameworks,
317 (by Anonymous Brave Guy ( 457657 ))
320 > Don't know where you live, but in most places I think
321 > developers are paid fairly well. We offer
322 > straight-out-of-school newbies $80-$90k, and still some
323 > turn us down for better offers.
324 Most places are not the Bay Area or a few big US cities.
325 In most of the world, new starter salaries in software
326 development are rarely more than 1/3 of that level, and in
327 many places they are much lower.
331 (by Ocker3 ( 1232550 ))
334 Your post is probably at zero rep because it was posted
335 AC, but you make good points.
342 (by Klaxton ( 609696 ))
345 Software developers generally have to do what they are told,
346 and work on whatever the boss thinks is important. You don't
347 get to decide whether it is going to bring in money or not.
350 ** Yeah haven't heard that one before (Score:2)
351 (by Crashmarik ( 635988 ))
354 Maybe it just sounds too much like 40 years of businesses
355 claiming there was a shortage of engineers in the U.S. when what
356 they meant was there was a shortage of engineers that could be
357 treated really badly.
358 Or maybe it's the fact that companies only seem to be willing to
359 hire H1Bs that will do anything not to go back to their
360 shitholes, or young kids who are stupid enough to believe
361 managements promises and have no family or social life to
362 distract from putting in 80+ hour weeks ?
365 (by zlives ( 2009072 ))
368 you misread, and i quote
369 "developer talent is a threat to the success of their
370 business" thus the hiring of no talent, spot filling h1b. and
371 if they accidentally get a talented h1b... replace and
375 ** FTFY (Score:5, Funny)
376 (by thevirtualcat ( 1071504 ))
379 Software Developers Who Are Willing To Work For Uncompetitive
380 Wages And No Benefits Are Now More Valuable To Companies Than
384 (by Seven Spirals ( 4924941 ))
387 Fucking-A right. Period.
390 ** .ORG (Score:4, Insightful)
391 (by fluffernutter ( 1411889 ))
394 This just tells me that developers need to get organized and
395 start saying no to 80+ work weeks collectively. Otherwise it
396 will be divided they fall, forever.
399 (by Ocker3 ( 1232550 ))
402 How do we re-invent Unions without calling them Unions and
403 avoid the very real baggage that the term has in the USA?
407 ** In other news... (Score:1)
408 (by Robobox Computer ( 5357621 ))
413 ** Legacy systems are out of control (Score:2)
414 (by xack ( 5304745 ))
417 Microsoft has just announced paid extended support for Windows 7
418 as too many companies are using it. There’s a lot of server 2003
419 systems out there too, with companies rather risking security
420 exploits than upgrade.
425 (by Ocker3 ( 1232550 ))
428 A pity that new features aren't separated from security
429 patches to allow users to keep their old platform secure
430 without feature changes.
434 (by xvan ( 2935999 ))
437 > Newer file browsers no longer let you edit the file path,
438 > you have to click on everything to get somewhere
439 Ctrl+L , no, you don't need to thank me.
444 (by Anonymous Coward)
447 So I'm supposed to upgrade the single Windows 2003 system I
448 have, running as a non-networked VM, hosting a proprietary
449 application on a system we need to lookup legacy data that
450 never changes so I can pay to upgrade to a modern system,
451 figure out a way to migrate the data from one proprietary
452 application to a new and different system just so I can have
453 support I don't need on a system that can't realistically be
454 exploited in the first place?
455 OR I'm supposed to pay a premium for extended support on the
460 (by gweihir ( 88907 ))
463 That is a different problem. Their new offerings are just
464 really bad. Also, nobody sane used MS crap on server-side.
467 ** Yet us 50+ folks are unemployed (Score:4, Informative)
468 (by Snotnose ( 212196 ))
471 Forget how long I've been out of work, it's been 2-3 years now
472 since I quit looking.
475 (by Locke2005 ( 849178 ))
478 I'm 57 and got at least 3 calls TODAY offering to submit me
479 for contract software positions. Granted, a lot of recruiters
480 try to low-ball me on the hourly rate, but they change their
481 tune as soon as you call their bluff and tell them you're not
482 interested at that low rate.
485 (by Anonymous Coward)
488 > I'm 57 and got at least 3 calls TODAY offering to submit
489 > me for contract software positions. Granted, a lot of
490 > recruiters try to low-ball me on the hourly rate, but they
491 > change their tune as soon as you call their bluff and tell
492 > them you're not interested at that low rate.
493 I get recruiters wanting to submit me all the time. Then
494 after a week, I follow up and the "the position is
495 closed." I think recruiters are assholes who got fired
496 from see car lots for ethics violations.
497 So, when you get a real job with health insurance, you'll
499 Of course, that's assumimg you're not full of shit.
502 (by Locke2005 ( 849178 ))
505 I agree; I regard recruiters as people that weren't
506 ethical enough to get jobs as used car salesmen. I
507 interviewed for a job once, didn't get any response, so
508 I started another position. A month after the initial
509 interview, the recruiter for the first position offered
510 me $1500 cash in a plain, unmarked envelope to quit the
511 job I'd just started and take the other position
512 instead! (Apparently the cash came out of his
513 commission.) So yes, recruiters know nothing, rely
514 almost entirely on keyword searching in r
519 ** So, the old adage? (Score:2)
520 (by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ))
523 Employees are our most valuable asset? I'm pretty sure it's
524 actually still money.
526 ** Nonsensical headline... (Score:2)
527 (by JoeDuncan ( 874519 ))
530 It's like saying "gold is worth more than money!" - totally
532 One (gold, developers) is a commodity that IS exchanged, the
533 other (money) is the medium OF exchange.
534 Saying that "commodity X" is worth more than "exchange medium Y"
535 makes no sense because a commodity CANNOT be worth "more" or
536 "less" than the medium of exchange used - it can only ever be
537 worth a specified amount of Y.
539 ** Talk about not understanding an article / Poll (Score:2)
540 (by Harlequin80 ( 1671040 ))
543 No where does it say that companies think developers are more
544 important than money.
545 The results state that the companies perceive the risk of not
546 being able to find skills as higher than the risks of not being
547 able to access capital.
548 This is especially true if you're a cash rich organisation.
549 In the current financial climate finding returns on your
550 investments is hard. Interest rates are at historically low
551 levels, bond returns are zero, and so that leaves higher risk
552 investments to get returns. That effecti
554 ** lots of employees are "worth more than money"... (Score:2)
555 (by bkmoore ( 1910118 ))
558 What management school fails to teach young inexperienced
559 executives: If the company's future existence depends on whether
560 or not an employee does the job correctly or not, they are
561 "worth more than money".
563 ** Tech debt is a business decision (Score:2)
567 Incurring technical debt is a business decision.
568 And it may well be the right decision.
569 For example, in a startup, time to market typically trumps
571 And there are a lot of startups in the software field...
573 ** Not at my compamy (Score:1)
574 (by dccase ( 56453 ))
577 Not at my company, and certainly not at any other
578 publicly-traded company.
579 Maybe at some privately-held company until it gets bought out.
581 ** Employees are our Most Valuable Asset (Score:3)
582 (by R3d M3rcury ( 871886 ))
585 Right behind [1]carbon paper. [dilbert.com]
590 [1] http://dilbert.com/strip/1993-03-03
592 ** And this is why we keep them chained to (Score:2)
git://git.nikiroo.be / gofetch.git / blob