[gofetch.git] / test / expected / SLASHDOT / 0102636958

         COMPUTER CHIPS ARE STILL 'MADE IN USA' (AXIOS.COM)        

  Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (msmash)
  from the how-about-that dept.

  o Reference: 0102636958
  o News link: https://news.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/1558206/computer-chips-are-still-made-in-usa
  o Source link: https://www.axios.com/computer-chips-manufacturing-america--10dcfe13-64f3-4ea9-ad4a-cb189a00429a.html


    For  all  the wishful thinking about manufacturing more laptops
    and  iPhones  in  the  U.S.,  there  is  [1]one  sector of tech
    manufacturing  where America remains a leader: computer chips .
    From a report:
    
    >  Some  $44  billion worth of semiconductors are exported from
    the  U.S.  each  year,  making  them  America's  fourth leading
    manufacturing  export  after  cars,  airplanes and refined oil.
    There  are  roughly  80  wafer fabrication plants (aka fabs) in
    the  U.S., spread across 19 states. [...] An even greater share
    of  the  world's  computer  chips are designed domestically and
    made  overseas by companies including Qualcomm, Apple, Broadcom
    and  Nvidia.  A  bunch  of the high-tech gear needed to produce
    chips is also designed and/or made in the U.S.
    
    
    
    [1] https://www.axios.com/computer-chips-manufacturing-america-
    -10dcfe13-64f3-4ea9-ad4a-cb189a00429a.html


  ** 

     ** Re: (Score:2)
        (by bobbied ( 2522392 ))

        
        Why?
        Politics of course..

        ** Re: (Score:2)
           (by Alwin Barni ( 5107629 ))

           
           > Why?
           > Politics of course..
           Could you please expand?

           ** Re:Why is it "wishful thinking"? (Score:5, Funny)
              (by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ))

              
              >> Why?
              >> Politics of course..
              > Could you please expand?
              P o l i t i c s o f c o u r s e.

              ** Re: (Score:2, Funny)
                 (by Anonymous Coward)

                 
                 >>> Why?
                 >>> Politics of course..
                 >> Could you please expand?
                 > 
                 > P o l i t i c s o f c o u r s e.
                 > 
                 I'm not sure if I should laugh, or hunt you down and
                 smack you upside your head with a 2x4.

                 ** Re: (Score:3)
                    (by Highdude702 ( 4456913 ))

                    
                    I mean, I thought it was hilarious, and it wasn't
                    the name calling garbage you see here too often.



              ** Re: (Score:2)
                 (by Alwin Barni ( 5107629 ))

                 
                 :-)
                 However:
                 expand ikspand/
                 verb
                 verb: expand; 3rd person present: expands; past
                 tense: expanded; past participle: expanded; gerund
                 or present participle: expanding
                 * become or make larger or more extensive
                 * give a fuller version or account of.

                 ** Re: (Score:2)
                    (by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ))

                    
                    > :-)
                    > However: expand - verb  ...
                    > (1) become or make larger or more extensive
                    > (2) give a fuller version or account of.
                    Yup, I know; I was married to an English teacher
                    for 20 years, but using the first definition was
                    funnier.  :-)
                    [1]Remember Sue... [tumblr.com]
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    [1] http://remembersue.tumblr.com/






     ** Re: Why is it "wishful thinking"? (Score:1)
        (by Anonymous Coward)

        
        The only reason is automation. Jobs were never going to come
        back from chip manufacturing.
        They have a factory crew for setting up the parts and feeding
        the machines. Pretty cheap, doesn't actually make much money
        for anyone but the corporation running it. It's all
        "unskilled" and low pay...setting up all those machines,
        getting material dimensions in spec and running the machine
        is just considered general labor.


     ** Re: (Score:3)
        (by YuppieScum ( 1096 ))

        
        > If the US leads in chip manufacture, why can't it be
        > competitive in putting the pieces together?
        Because most of the CPU silicon used in the commonest devices
        - phones and laptops - is fabbed in Asia.
        
        Because most of the parts - like screens, RAM and flash
        storage - are also made in Asia, so it's cheaper to bolt it
        all together in a location closest to the source of the most
        parts.
        
        Because final assembly of something like an iPhone is a
        manual process that requires the dexterity of nimble fingers.
        It's not quite the same as bolting doors onto a Chevvy.


     ** Re: (Score:2)
        (by GameboyRMH ( 1153867 ))

        
        Because it hardly has any of the pieces right now - it would
        be a massive effort to put all the supply chains in place for
        the various electronics components needed for a whole
        computer when the US currently makes little more than chips.
        Currently those supply chains are in Asia (which also has the
        advantages of cheap labor and lax environmental laws). I'd
        compare it to going from just making engine blocks to making
        a whole car, but that underplays the difficulty too much.


     ** Re: (Score:2)
        (by AHuxley ( 892839 ))

        
        Re "why can't it be competitive in putting the pieces
        together?"
        Think back to the 1970 and 1980's when the CPU thing needed
        new production lines and was no longer low yield skilled lab
        work.
        Non first world nations part pay their workers in food,
        dormitories. Their introduction to work is free as its part
        of the nations free "education".
        Tax reductions and industrial export support then further
        supports the electronics brand in the poor nation.
        No unions. Lots of pollution.
        
        The big brands moved to ver


  ** But for how long? (Score:2)
     (by DMJC ( 682799 ))

     
     Sure they still do, but China is beginning to manufacture X86
     CPUs directly. It's only a matter of time until they catch up
     and crush Intel and AMD through undercutting, and throwing money
     at the problem. [1]https://www.tomshardware.com/n...
     [tomshardware.com]
     
     
     
     
     [1]
     https://www.tomshardware.com/news/china-zen-x86-processor-dryhan-
     a,37417.html

     ** Re: (Score:2)
        (by Dallas May ( 4891515 ))

        
        In the long run, yes. Probably not really soon. There are
        plenty of significant advances happening that space right
        now. They might market to the far low end PCs, but they
        aren't the market AMD and Intel really want anyway.


     ** Re: (Score:2)
        (by jon3k ( 691256 ))

        
        By then (10-20 years, if they're lucky) the desktop will be
        commoditized and mobile (ie laptops) mostly replaced with
        ARM. All the growth is in the server market and China is a
        long, long way from producing an X86 CPU that can compete
        with Intel Xeons. Who knows what the landscape will look like
        by then.

        ** Re: But for how long? (Score:2)
           (by adolf ( 21054 ))

           
           This will also be the year of Linux on the desktop!

           ** Re: (Score:2)
              (by tsa ( 15680 ))

              
              Yeah, paradise is near!

              ** Re: (Score:2)
                 (by adolf ( 21054 ))

                 
                 We're on the home stretch, boys!





     ** Re: (Score:2)
        (by AHuxley ( 892839 ))

        
        As long as the NRO needs hand crafted space CPU products.


     ** Re: (Score:2)
        (by CaffeinatedBacon ( 5363221 ))

        
        But who will people trust to make their CPU's. Intel with
        their "management engine" and AMD etc all with the same is
        already freaking enough people out.
        Who is going to want a Chinese CPU with who knows what
        running on it that you will never be able to see, has access
        to everything, and can do anything it wants to "your
        computer" and "your data".
        Most countries would probably just ban them like they are
        [1]doing for 5G telecom equipment already.  [nytimes.com]
        
        
        
        
        [1]
        https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/23/technology/huawei-banned-a-
        ustralia-5g.html


  ** Yeah, but . . . (Score:5, Interesting)
     (by dtmos ( 447842 ) *)

     
     . . . computer chips with state-of-the-art lithography soon all
     will be manufactured overseas. Specifically, they will be made
     by exactly two companies, [1]Samsung [samsungfoundry.com] and
     [2]TSMC [tsmc.com], with GlobalFoundries' recent announcement
     that it is [3]stopping development of its 7nm process
     [anandtech.com]. GF operated the old IBM facility in Fishkill,
     NY, and AFAIK was the last company offering state-of-the-art
     foundry services with a fab in the US.
     Intel is still in business, of course, and even has a [4]foundry
     business [intel.com], but it cannot seem to successfully operate
     it -- substantially all of its wafer starts are chips of its own
     design. With the capital cost of each new-generation fab
     reaching $20 billion, it's only a matter of time until Intel --
     which has only its internal product base of chip designs to fill
     its fabs, while Samsung and TSMC make chips for the entire
     industry -- can no longer afford the move to the next
     generation.
     If the rest of the semiconductor industry (or the US DoD) wants
     high-performance computer chips, there's now nowhere to go
     except Samsung and TSMC. It will be interesting to see what
     politicians do when they realize that the best digital chips can
     no longer be manufactured in the US. The choice seems to be
     either (1) have our economy -- everything from cell phones to
     missiles -- dependent on chips manufactured overseas, or (2)
     subsidize Intel's foundry business and the semiconductor
     equipment manufacturers to the tune of tens of $billions, just
     to keep a US source of high-performance semiconductors.
     
     
     
     
     [1] https://www.samsungfoundry.com/foundry/homepage.do
     [2] http://www.tsmc.com/english/default.htm
     [3]
     https://www.anandtech.com/show/13277/globalfoundries-stops-all-7-
     nm-development
     [4] https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/foundry/overview.html

     ** 

        ** Re: (Score:3)
           (by Dallas May ( 4891515 ))

           
           The same reason they haven't produced a car yet. They
           could, but they don't want to. They have good deals with
           their current suppliers, so why make that investment?

           ** The normal Transition of economies (Score:2)
              (by aberglas ( 991072 ))

              
              1. Primary production
              2. Manufacturing
              3. Services
              Services will keep things going fine. Lawyers, tax
              accountants, retail and beauty consultants. That is
              where the growth will come from.




     ** 

        ** Re: (Score:2)
           (by nateman1352 ( 971364 ))

           
           TI doesn't have state-of-the-art lithography for digital.
           They gave up on the Moore's Law race 10 years ago after
           they reached 45nm. TI realized during the development of
           WinRT that building CPUs requires very expensive fabs and
           if you are not an x86 supplier then your only option is to
           make ARM chips, which is a race to the bottom with very
           thin margins. TI realized they can make more money
           building mixed signal designs on older process.



     ** Re:Yeah, but . . . (Score:4, Insightful)
        (by Graymalkin ( 13732 ) *)

        
        State of the art lithography is not a synonym for
        high-performance computer chips. In fact for a lot of uses,
        DoD included, state of the art lithography is nowhere in the
        requirements. Hardened chips on robust/insulated substrates
        is more important in many uses than smaller die traces.


     ** Re: (Score:2)
        (by KalvinB ( 205500 ))

        
        They'll be subsidized under issues of national security if
        they're really needed by the government. The government
        generally doesn't run bleeding edge technology so the chips
        that can be produced in the US will be plenty sufficient for
        government needs. If the government ever needs a $20 billion
        plant, they'll cut a check under the national defense budget.
        We've been comfortable with foreign made chips for decades in
        the consumer market. Unless there is a severe national
        security issue that won't change.


     ** Re: (Score:2)
        (by nateman1352 ( 971364 ))

        
        Intel has the same fundamental problem with foundry that AMD
        had 10 years ago. Every 3rd party company does not trust
        Intel to prioritize their products over Intel's own products.
        Intel will always build their own products on the latest
        process node first. If you fab with Intel then your wafers
        will always get 2nd priority over Intel's own wafers. The
        only way that is not the case is if you are such a huge
        customer that your contract requires Intel to construct an
        entire new factory just for you. Then you h


  ** Poor writing in TFA (Score:5, Informative)
     (by whoever57 ( 658626 ))

     
     "An even greater share of the world's computer chips are
     designed domestically and made overseas by companies including
     Qualcomm, Apple, Broadcom and Nvidia."
     This reads as though Qualcomm, Apple, Broadcom and Nvidia are
     making chips. What would be clear and accurate is:
     "An even greater share of the world's computer chips are
     designed domestically by companies including Qualcomm, Apple,
     Broadcom and Nvidia and made overseas."

     ** Still somewhat misleading... (Score:4, Informative)
        (by YuppieScum ( 1096 ))

        
        Don't forget, a hefty chunk of Qualcomm's - and pretty much
        all of Apple's - designs are not original, but instead are
        based on IP from ARM, a British company (although recently
        bought out by SoftBank).
        
        In fact, Broadcom and Nvidia are also licencees of ARM IP as
        well, but less of their overall product range derives from
        it.


  ** Are you sure? (Score:3, Interesting)
     (by Gabest ( 852807 ))

     
     TSMC and Samsung are the leaders in chip making. And second
     class Intel and AMD both have shady Middle-East ties from Israel
     and Dubai.

  ** 13% market share is not good (Score:4, Interesting)
     (by Goldsmith ( 561202 ))

     
     This is a crazy article. At the end, it meekly points out that
     the US has a 13% market share in chip production. Given that the
     US started this industry, leads in design in this space, leads
     in capital available for high tech industry, and that the US
     accounts for 15% to 18% of global GDP, a 13% market share in
     chip production is very poor performance. This is below what you
     might expect for a simple commodity that depends only on
     domestic market size and way below what you'd expect for this
     industry.