1 'I'VE SEEN THE FUTURE OF CONSUMER AI, AND IT DOESN'T HAVE ONE'
4 Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (msmash)
5 from the there-is-no-spoon dept.
7 o Reference: 0102639856
8 o News link: https://tech.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/205221/ive-seen-the-future-of-consumer-ai-and-it-doesnt-have-one
9 o Source link: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/09/05/consumer_ai_ifa_2018_roundup/
12 Andrew Orlowski of The Register recounts all the gadgets
13 [1]supercharged with AI that he came across at IFA tradeshow
14 last week -- and wonders what value AI brought to the table .
17 > I didn't see a blockchain toothbrush at IFA in Berlin last
18 week, but I'm sure there was one lurking about somewhere. With
19 30 vast halls to cover, I didn't look too hard for it. But I
20 did see many things almost as tragic that no one could miss --
21 AI being squeezed into almost every conceivable bit of
22 consumer electronics. But none were convincing. If ever there
23 was a solution looking for a problem, it's ramming AI into
24 gadgets to show of a company's machine learning prowess. For
25 the consumer it adds unreliability, cost and complexity, and
26 the annoyance of being prompted.
30 > [...] Back to LG, which takes 2018's prize for sticking AI
31 into a superfluous gadget. The centrepiece of its AI efforts
32 this year is a robot, ClOi. Put Google Assistant or Alexa on
33 wheels, and you have ClOi. I asked the booth person what
34 exactly ClOi could do to be told "it can take notes for your
35 shopping list." Why wasn't this miracle of the Fourth
36 Industrial Revolution let loose on the LG floor? I wondered --
37 a question answered by this account of ClOi's debut at CES in
38 January. Clearly things haven't improved much -- this robot
39 buddy was kept indoors.
43 [1] https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/09/05/consumer_ai_ifa_2-
47 ** Stupid industry fads (Score:5, Funny)
48 (by Spy Handler ( 822350 ))
51 3D printer in every home will fundamentally change human society
52 IoT internet connected belt buckles and toothbrushes will take
54 AI will revolutionize consumer electronics
55 Net PC from Sun will dominate the computer industry (this one is
58 ** Re:Stupid industry fads (Score:5, Insightful)
59 (by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ))
62 Excessive hype is always followed by a trough of
63 disillusionment. But as the TOD fades, plenty of mature,
64 practical applications are likely to emerge. The
65 technological naysayers are usually even more wrong than the
67 [1]Hype cycle [wikipedia.org]
72 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hype_cycle
75 (by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ))
78 > Excessive hype is always followed by a trough of
80 Pro Tip: Get out in front and mention this *before* taking
81 your date home. Better for her to hear it from you than
82 her working it out on her own ... :-)
85 ** Re:Stupid industry fads (Score:4, Insightful)
86 (by CaptainDork ( 3678879 ))
89 If smart phones and tablets are any indicator ...
90 AI, too, is an evolutionary dead end.
91 It's a buzz word with a vacuous definition.
94 (by Q-Hack! ( 37846 ))
97 Not a lot different than back in the 1950's when the
98 trend was to create all manor of odd gadgets to make
99 life easier. Those deemed useful are still around...
100 The rest can be found in junk markets around the world.
101 But hey, the Cracker-barrel's of the future will still
102 need stuff to decorate their walls with.
105 (by CaptainDork ( 3678879 ))
108 In reaction to your sig:
109 I recently re-read "Nineteen Eighty-Four," because
110 my first reading was so long ago.
111 Good read, but what a goddam depressing book!
117 (by magzteel ( 5013587 ))
120 > Excessive hype is always followed by a trough of
121 > disillusionment. But as the TOD fades, plenty of mature,
122 > practical applications are likely to emerge. The
123 > technological naysayers are usually even more wrong than
125 > [1]Hype cycle [wikipedia.org]
126 Back in the early PC days, when you had to hook up a
127 cassette player to load your application, and then another
128 one to load your data, we used to tell people they could
129 store recipes on their TRS-80 personal computer. This was
130 not much of a productivity enhancer. I'm sure based on
131 this experience some people would have thought PC's were
132 useless and had no future.
133 And then floppy disks and spreadsheets were invented.
138 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hype_cycle
142 (by jythie ( 914043 ))
145 It is really difficult to say if the naysayers or
146 hypesters are more often right or wrong. One problem with
147 looking back at negative guesses is we only really
148 remember the ones that turned out to be wrong since the
149 evidence is in modern use today, while all the naysayers
150 that we right, well, the things they were right about
151 faded into obscurity.
154 (by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ))
157 You only count as a "true" naysayer if you are negative
158 about an overhyped trend with groupies and fanbois, not
159 about an obviously stupid idea.
160 The naysayers were right about the Segway, but that was
161 an easy target, since it reached peak hype before it
162 had even been shown to the public.
163 Other tech failures were Iridium, Zune, Pebble,
164 Juicero. But none of these were hyped as world changing
172 (by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ))
175 > In the long term only 1/20 companies really make it.
176 Success of a technology is rarely correlated with the
177 success of particular companies. Silicon Valley is
178 littered with plaques marking the graves of
179 semiconductor pioneering companies. Few of them
180 survived. Yet semiconductors have been the greatest
181 technological success since fire was tamed.
182 For another example, look at aviation. It took 66 years
183 to go from Kitty Hawk to the Sea of Tranquility. Yet
184 how many airlines made money during those years? Almost
191 (by atherophage ( 2481624 ))
194 Prognosticators have been wrong before. While it is easy to
195 poke fun at the unusual who knows, perhaps in a few years
196 dental floss will come with AI. The thought of not having AI
197 floss will be unthinkable.
200 ** Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
201 (by Anonymous Coward)
204 As much as I am a nerd, I blame "nerds" for this. There is
205 this whole new fad of being a "techie", watching Big Bang
206 Theory, owning a Tesla, and generally being absolutely
207 ignorant about real science, technology and math while
208 "pretending" to be a nerd. I used "pretending" but there may
209 be some legitimate attempt but it is hard to tell if someone
210 is a fake nerd or just a stupid nerd. I think this trend
211 partly follows from women trying to follow the (tech) money
212 and then men trying to follow the women.
216 (by AbRASiON ( 589899 ) *)
219 I don't know that there's a lot of these people but they
220 do exist, for certain yes. The 'watching big bang theory'
221 is the kicker, once someone admits watching that, you know
222 they're very unlikely to be a 'proper nerd' for lack of a
224 Considering they only have partial skills in technology
225 then, we can likely guess, if they work in the industry,
226 they're probably higher on the ladder than us and paid
227 more though :/ like most management / consultant types.
232 (by JMJimmy ( 2036122 ))
235 The thing no one can consider is time.
236 "AI" being jammed into things now is probably lame, awkward,
237 and of very limited use. Much like computers were back in the
238 punch card days with devices that. Less than 100 years later
239 we've got computers in our pocket. We are in the early days
240 of AI - we'll look back on it decades from now as we do with
241 things like: [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
243 This article is just another example of someone who can't see
244 past their nose to the road ahead and the million differen
249 [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp7MHZY2ADI
253 (by AHuxley ( 892839 ))
256 Good for a few workers over the decade of hype.
260 (by m00sh ( 2538182 ))
263 > 3D printer in every home will fundamentally change human
265 > IoT internet connected belt buckles and toothbrushes will
266 > take over the world
267 > AI will revolutionize consumer electronics
268 > Net PC from Sun will dominate the computer industry (this one
270 I don't know about home but it plays a big part in
271 manufacturing. There are very specialized and successful
272 medical companies that use 3d printing.
273 Don't know about belt buckles but fitbit, apple watch, garmin
274 has been worth billions of dollars and fundamentally changed
275 the way a lot of people do things.
276 I don't know about NetPC but what about the cloud? The hype
277 that we would all put all our stuff in the cloud blah blah
278 actually materialized. There are many companies who own no
279 hardware except the dev la
283 (by lokedhs ( 672255 ))
286 Net PC was not from Sun. I should I know, I worked for them
287 during that era. What they had was JavaStation, which was a
288 neat idea but ahead of its time. That concept is now realised
289 by the Chromebook. Net PC was a Compaq thing, if I recall
290 correctly. However, Wikipedia tells me it was Oracle, so
291 perhaps the Compaq device was called something else.
297 (by bobbied ( 2522392 ))
300 > Example: Apple will go under...any day now....since 1984
301 But they've been totally correct in not predicting the "Year
302 of the Linux Desktop" has come.
303 You win a few and lose a few.
306 (by jythie ( 914043 ))
309 *nod* to expand on this.... true, Apple never did go
310 under. But look how many computer companies started up
311 around the same time and did. It is fun to look at the
312 successes and compare them to the naysayers who were
313 wrong, but the ones who were right, well, their
314 predictions did not leave much to talk about today.
320 ** Re:Now With AI! (Score:5, Informative)
321 (by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ))
324 > Gee, I could have sworn we already HAD the AI craze back in
325 > the late 80s. Or was it early 90s?
326 It was the 1980s. It had faded long before 1990.
327 But there was an earlier AI craze in the 1960s, based on
328 perceptrons. That faded by 1970.
329 The 1980 AI hype cycle was driven by "expert systems" and
331 The latest cycle started in 2006 with the publication of the
332 [1]seminal paper on deep learning [sciencemag.org], and has
333 so far lasted far longer than any previous AI hype cycle.
338 [1] http://science.sciencemag.org/content/313/5786/504
341 (by CaptainDork ( 3678879 ))
345 AI had an unambiguous definition that eroded under stress
346 because the industry came to the realization that the "I"
347 part (intelligence) used the human mind as the high bar.
348 The second epiphany came when no one could fabricate an AI
349 that would simply refuse to cooperate if Facebook was
354 (by Pseudonym ( 62607 ))
357 In the 90s it was all "knowledge-based systems" and in the
358 noughties it was all "intelligent agents".
361 (by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ))
364 > In the 90s it was all "knowledge-based systems" and in
365 > the noughties it was all "intelligent agents".
366 Yes, but those generated far less hype than what
367 happened in the 60s, 80s, and teenies.
368 The big things in the 90s and noughties were the web
374 (by CWCheese ( 729272 ))
377 Thanks for the Lisp reference! I fondly remember learning
378 Lisp in an AI class during college in the 80s. Actually
379 enjoyed programming Lisp because it could be so terse and
380 do so much very rapidly. However, we really had no good
381 applications to use for it, other than having an
382 application learn the best way to win a chess game. I
383 chose not to pursue AI as a career and haven't suffered
387 (by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ))
390 > I chose not to pursue AI as a career and haven't
392 Learning Lisp would not have helped you. Modern AI uses
393 mostly Python based libraries such as Tensorflow and
394 PyTorch. C++ is used for performance critical stuff.
395 Nobody uses Lisp for AI anymore. It was a dead end.
399 ** Fifth Generation (Score:2)
400 (by mcswell ( 1102107 ))
403 Fueling the hype in the 1980s AI cycle was the Japanese
404 Fifth Generation project, for which a stated goal was to
405 leapfrog the West's computer technology and skills. People
406 like Edward Feigenbaum and Pamela McCorduck used the FUD
407 generated around this project to call for increased
408 funding, claiming in their 1983 book 'The Fifth
409 Generation: Japan’s Computer Challenge to the World' that
410 "America needs a national plan of action, a kind of space
411 shuttle program for the knowledge systems of the future."
417 (by Torodung ( 31985 ))
420 > Cats on the blockchain, anyone?
421 Well, at the very least, every zig should be on the
422 blockchain. Don't know about Cats.
425 ** You can stop reading at "Orlowski" (Score:4, Interesting)
426 (by serviscope_minor ( 664417 ))
429 Andrew Orlowski of The Register is basically a professional
430 dickhead. His main goal seems to be to be as obnoxious and
431 ignorant as possible presumably with the goal of trolling the
432 readership. He's pretty much the reason I stopped reading the
433 Register because of the constant streem of utter bullshit from
436 ** Re:You can stop reading at "Orlowski" (Score:4, Interesting)
437 (by starless ( 60879 ))
440 And also appears to be climate change denier....
441 (at least for some of his Register articles.)
445 (by TJ_Phazerhacki ( 520002 ))
448 So, Walt Mossberg for a new generation? Shutup!
451 ** AI in a Toaster! (Score:2)
455 Red Dwarf has already shown why this is a BAD Idea.
456 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhnN4eUiei4
459 (by Revek ( 133289 ))
462 Please learn basic html K, thanks.
465 (by AbRASiON ( 589899 ) *)
468 How about slashdot stop being entirely backwards with that
476 (by Applehu Akbar ( 2968043 ))
479 But I do like being able to verbally ask my phone to navigate
480 to a contact, without having to squint at a screen in the
481 sun, and get turn by turn directions. Digital assistants have
482 slipped into a place in my life where they do a few useful
483 things. As time goes on, this set will grow larger.
484 But I know: "If it works, it's not AI!" "If it's AI, it won't
489 (by Anonymous Coward)
492 If Sony's Aibo lives up to the demos I have seen - that would be
493 one big application. AI as a pet.
494 I also use AI (maybe more ML) all the time with photo sorting,
495 image recognition, etc. It is already in the home.
497 ** OP must be joking... (Score:4, Insightful)
498 (by JoeDuncan ( 874519 ))
501 ... because consumer AI is *ALREADY* ubiquitous and all around
503 From the face detection in your phone, to the fuzzy logic
504 controllers in washing machines, to the ant colony algorithms
505 being used to route network traffic, to finding directions with
506 google maps, to Netflix and Amazon's recommendation algorithms,
507 to OCR for cheques and mail, to NEST thermostats, to robot
508 vacuum cleaners and lawn mowers, to expert systems in medical
509 diagnosis... (I could keep going)
510 AI in consumer products is literally *already* ALL around us.
511 Saying that consumer AI "has no future" is like looking around
512 at the world today and saying "personal cars have no future" -
513 it's completely idiotic because to anyone with half an ounce of
514 perception that future is ALREADY here.
515 It's like looking at a forest and claiming there are no trees
518 (by grahamsz ( 150076 ))
521 Yeah it seems like it is a natural fit in optimizing the
523 Even though I don't routinely use my phone as an alarm clock,
524 it still knows when i'm likely to get up and if I plug it in
525 at bed time it'll do a good job of figuring out when i'm
526 likely to get up and adjusts its charging rate to be done
527 about an hour before then. Yet if I plug it in a 3pm then
528 it'll assume i want as much charge as possible and charge as
529 fast as it can. It's not rocket science, but it's useful.
530 Do I need a dishwasher with
533 (by JoeDuncan ( 874519 ))
536 > Do I need a dishwasher with a screen that I can talk to?
537 Nope, but I'm willing to bet it has an embedded fuzzy
538 logic controller in it to control water levels.
542 (by mcswell ( 1102107 ))
545 "Do I need a dishwasher with a screen that I can talk to?"
546 Printers have a screen. You can't talk to it (at least
547 you're not supposed to--when aggravated, I've been know to
548 do so, and not kindly). But try to decipher what's on that
549 screen. I claim that printers are not any easier to use
550 than they were in 1984 (which is when I got my first dot
551 matrix printer). You (ok, I) *still* can't figure out
552 what's wrong with them, despite the screen.
559 (by JoeDuncan ( 874519 ))
562 > None of the tings you mention actually contain any real
563 > artificial intelligence in the sense of being able to
564 > making decisions in the face of unknown circumstances and
567 Roombas have to be able to adapt to unknown obstacles and
568 uncertain sensory input (could get blocked, partially
570 Embedded fuzzy logic controllers (also used in anti-lock
571 brakes) have to be able to maintain a steady output signal
572 given uncertain input (wear and tear on the mechanics,
573 grit...) that can vary wildly in an unknown manner.
574 OCR systems need to be able to tell the difference between
575 a cheque and unknown things, like night club flyers, and
576 they deal with hand written
581 (by AHuxley ( 892839 ))
584 Re "face detection" is not AI. Its a really big and fast
585 database. Filled with faces the police know about and random
586 people walking past CCTV.
587 Re "fuzzy logic controllers in washing machines" A set amount
588 of power, water, weight of laundry is not AI. Just good
589 programming within set limits.
590 Re "'finding directions" with maps that are created and set.
591 Re "recommendation algorithms" that is set by past people
592 buying things and another person showing the same interests.
593 More to do with collecting lots
596 (by JoeDuncan ( 874519 ))
599 > ..."face detection" is not AI. Its a really big and fast
600 > database. Filled with faces the police know...
601 ...and just HOW do the faces "police know" get matched to
602 this database? Explain without reference to AI.
603 > ..."fuzzy logic controllers in washing machines" A set
604 > amount of power, water, weight of laundry is not AI.
605 No it isn't, but you're a fool if you think your washing
606 machine is that simple these days. It DOES take fuzzy
607 logic to adapt to things like wear and tear on the
608 machine, arbitrarily changing water pressures and
609 temperatures, etc... and still maintain consistent
611 > "'finding directions" with maps that are created and set.
612 ...and using AI algorithms to find the best path.
613 Blah blah blah... you get the point. You've deliberately
614 downplayed the AI aspect
621 (by JoeDuncan ( 874519 ))
624 You are clearly uneducated, Troll.
625 If you actually wish to enlighten yourself, I'd start
626 here: [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
631 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_intelligence
636 (by hazem ( 472289 ))
639 > From the face detection in your phone, to the fuzzy logic
640 > controllers in washing machines, to the ant colony algorithms
641 > being used to route network traffic, to finding directions
642 > with google maps, to Netflix and Amazon's recommendation
643 > algorithms, to OCR for cheques and mail, to NEST thermostats,
644 > to robot vacuum cleaners and lawn mowers, to expert systems
645 > in medical diagnosis... (I could keep going)
646 When I took an AI class a few years ago, one of my favorite
647 things the professor said was, "What we called 'AI' yesterday
648 is simply the algorithm for how we do a thing today."
651 ** AI's Strength (Score:2)
652 (by thePsychologist ( 1062886 ))
655 AI (i.e. machine learning/neural networks) is really good at
656 optimizing stuff, so its natural strength shows when you have
657 hundreds of thousands of entities in a system. Examples are the
658 electricity grid, playing Go, and a department store's
660 In our individual lives, AI seems more like another drop in the
661 bucket of too much technology, and I think one day we'll realize
662 that less is more when it comes to the stuff in our homes.
664 ** Getting concerned myself (Score:1)
665 (by SuperKendall ( 25149 ))
668 I was looking at new fridges recently as a friend was asking for
669 a recommendation, and it's alarming how trying to find a fridge
670 without a screen is getting to be like trying to find a cell
671 phone without a camera... it really limits your options.
672 The only way they could make fridges any worse is the if screens
673 also played CNN constantly when not in use, like in an
674 airport... you can absolutely see subsidized ad-fridges coming
681 Seems like only the highest and lowest-end fridges lack
682 screens these days (as well as ice/water in the door,
683 something else I could do without).
686 (by mcswell ( 1102107 ))
689 Come to my house. The refr *has* an ice/water dispenser in
690 the door, but it hasn't worked for over a year. I think
691 the tube to the water dispenser is frozen, and if it gets
692 thawed, it just freezes up again. Same with the water
693 dispenser on the refr nearest my office at work.
694 As for the ice dispenser on our refr, we never used it, so
695 I took it out and got lots more room in the freezer. If we
696 want ice cubes, we make them in trays, like the 1960s.
703 (by sheramil ( 921315 ))
706 > What the hell does a fridge need a screen for?
707 You can connect it to a webcam inside the fridge and see
708 if the light goes out when you close the door.
712 ** I remember a time... (Score:2)
713 (by Dallas May ( 4891515 ))
716 My uncle was a computer scientist for a National Lab. He retired
717 15 or so years ago. I remember just after my grandmother first
718 got internet, he didn't have it at his home yet because he
719 didn't believe it was safe -this was probably 1997 or 98, and I
720 remember him talking to me about how disappointed he was with
721 the internet. "It was supposed to be this great thing. It's
722 useless. It'll never amount to anything."
726 (by bobbied ( 2522392 ))
729 > My uncle was a computer scientist for a National Lab. He
730 > retired 15 or so years ago. I remember just after my
731 > grandmother first got internet, he didn't have it at his home
732 > yet because he didn't believe it was safe -this was probably
733 > 1997 or 98, and I remember him talking to me about how
734 > disappointed he was with the internet. "It was supposed to be
735 > this great thing. It's useless. It'll never amount to
737 > Yeah, he was wrong.
738 Was he? Was he really?
739 How much of the internet is truly useful and how much is just
740 trash? Judging by my inbox, the number of E-mail in my inbox
741 the ratio 1s more than 10 to 1 SPAM to worth while messages
742 (And that's AFTER the SPAM filters.)
743 I find that this ratio pretty much governs the whole of the
744 internet.. Where 1/10th of it is actually something of use
745 and the rest is just useless junk.
746 So he's not that wrong.
752 (by mcswell ( 1102107 ))
755 And here you (and I) are.
759 ** I heard... (Score:1)
760 (by Hentai007 ( 188457 ))
763 AI is turning frogs gay.
766 (by AbRASiON ( 589899 ) *)
769 That's actually not true, the frogs are only gay for pay.
772 ** Nobody buys something because of AI (Score:3)
773 (by Laxator2 ( 973549 ))
776 I did not see any example where someone says: "I did not buy
777 that product because it lacked AI".
778 I did not hear from anyone that they need AI so they are going
779 out of their way to buy it. In its current form AI is good for
780 pattern recognition in some cases, for example, face
781 identification in photos.
782 The only customers are corporations with massive collections of
783 personal data to analyze, but not individual consumers.
784 I believe AI has been over-hyped and pushed in areas where it is
785 not usable in its current form (like self-driving cars) and we
786 start to see the backlash.
787 I've already seen stories saying that the medical diagnoses made
788 by IBM's Watson are just plain wrong. More examples will follow.
791 (by m00sh ( 2538182 ))
794 > I did not see any example where someone says: "I did not buy
795 > that product because it lacked AI".
796 > I did not hear from anyone that they need AI so they are
797 > going out of their way to buy it. In its current form AI is
798 > good for pattern recognition in some cases, for example, face
799 > identification in photos. The only customers are corporations
800 > with massive collections of personal data to analyze, but not
801 > individual consumers. I believe AI has been over-hyped and
802 > pushed in areas where it is not usable in its current form
803 > (like self-driving cars) and we start to see the backlash.
804 > I've already seen stories saying that the medical diagnoses
805 > made by IBM's Watson are just plain wrong. More examples will
807 What about Google home and Alexa?
808 How do you recognize pedestrians in self-driving cars without
810 IBM Watson was wrong quite a bit but it won jeopardy.
813 ** First they ignore you, ... (Score:1)
814 (by Maxo-Texas ( 864189 ))
817 First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight
820 This field is moving so fast compared to the 90s.
822 ** It's a dead end because it's not very good anyway (Score:2)
823 (by Rick Schumann ( 4662797 ))
826 So-called 'AI' is over-hyped and under-performing.
828 ** Another AI winter? (Score:2)
829 (by OneHundredAndTen ( 1523865 ))
832 The AI bubble seems to be starting to deflate. It may not pop,
833 but it will likely carry on shrinking. Most people already know
834 that Alex and co. are little more than gimmicks, good for party
835 games, grins and giggles, and little more. The AI community
836 seems to be making the same mistakes they made in the late 60s
837 and 70s. The second AI winter is nigh.
839 ** how do you see non-existent things ? (Score:2)
840 (by bingoUV ( 1066850 ))
843 If Consumer AI doesn't have a future, how can that non-existent
845 In an alternative interpretation, the author has seen the future
846 of Consumer AI and so of course it exists. But the future of the
847 future of Consumer AI doesn't exist. I.e. Future of Consumer AI
848 doesn't have one - where "one" stands for future.
849 Any other interpretations ?
851 ** It's not "Consumer AI" (Score:1)
852 (by themusicgod1 ( 241799 ))
855 Since the consumer is not control of it.
857 It's Anti-Consumer AI if anything
git://git.nikiroo.be / gofetch.git / blob