[gofetch.git] / test / expected / SLASHDOT / 0102640946

      VALVE EXPLAINS HOW IT DECIDES WHO'S A 'STRAIGHT UP TROLL'    \r
             PUBLISHING VIDEO GAMES ON STEAM (VICE.COM)            \r
\r
  Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (BeauHD)\r
  from the behind-the-scenes dept.\r
\r
  o Reference: 0102640946\r
  o News link: https://games.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2146237/valve-explains-how-it-decides-whos-a-straight-up-troll-publishing-video-games-on-steam\r
  o Source link: https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/9kmej7/valve-it-really-does-seem-bad-games-are-made-by-bad-people\r
\r
\r
    An   anonymous   reader   quotes  a  report  from  Motherboard:\r
    Wednesday,  Valve,  the  company  that operates the huge online\r
    video  game store Steam, shared more details about how it plans\r
    to  control  and  moderate  the ever-increasing number of games\r
    published  on  its  platform.  In the post published Wednesday,\r
    Valve  shared  more  details  about  how  it determines what it\r
    considers  "outright trolling." "It is vague and we'll tell you\r
    why,"  Valve  wrote.  "You're  a denizen of the internet so you\r
    know  that  trolls come in all forms. On Steam, some are simply\r
    trying  to rile people up with something we call 'a game shaped\r
    object'  (ie: a crudely made piece of software that technically\r
    and  just barely passes our bar as a functioning video game but\r
    isn't  what  99.9% of folks would say is "good.") Valve goes on\r
    to  explain  that  some  trolls are trying to scam folks out of\r
    their  Steam  inventory items (digital items that can be traded\r
    for  real  money),  while others are trying to generate a small\r
    amount  of  money  through a variety of schemes that have to do\r
    with  how  developers  use  keys  to  unlock Steam games, while\r
    others  are  trying  to  "incite  and sow discord." "Trolls are\r
    figuring  out new ways to be loathsome as we write this," Valve\r
    said.  "But  the  thing these folks have in common is that they\r
    aren't  actually  interested  in good faith efforts to make and\r
    sell  games to you or anyone. When a developer's motives aren't\r
    that,  they're  probably  a troll." One interesting observation\r
    Valve   shares  in  the  blog  post  is  that  it  rarely  bans\r
    individual  games  from  Steam,  and more often bans developers\r
    and/or  publishers  entirely.  [...] Valve said that its review\r
    process  for  determining  that something may be a "troll game"\r
    is  a  "deep  assessment"  that  involves investigating who the\r
    developer  is, what they've done in the past, their behavior on\r
    Steam   as   a   developer,   as   a  customer,  their  banking\r
    information, developers they associate with, and more.\r
\r
\r
  ** Just charge a $5K "listing fee" (Score:5, Interesting)\r
     (by west ( 39918 ))\r
\r
     \r
     98% of the total garbage disappears (as well as a few percent of\r
     the good). Of course "not terribly good games" will still\r
     appear, but it gets rid of the absolute garbage.\r
     Or if people are appalled at paying to appear on Steam, allow\r
     spending $10K for a Steam "check-mark of marketing", and allow\r
     users to filter to show only check-marked games.\r
\r
     ** \r
\r
        ** Re: (Score:1)\r
           (by Anonymous Coward)\r
\r
           \r
           "Choices"???\r
           Thirty-five (35) games were released on Steam today alone .\r
           Go fuck yourself.\r
\r
\r
\r
     ** Steam wants the garbage (Score:3)\r
        (by rsilvergun ( 571051 ))\r
\r
        \r
        because there's no accounting for taste, and if you took away\r
        garbage there'd be no Goat Simulator. As the saying goes, one\r
        man's trash is another's treasure.\r
        \r
        Plus, a lot of good devs get their start making trash.\r
\r
        ** Re: (Score:3)\r
           (by AC-x ( 735297 ))\r
\r
           \r
           > because there's no accounting for taste, and if you took\r
           > away garbage there'd be no Goat Simulator. As the saying\r
           > goes, one man's trash is another's treasure.\r
           I'm sorry, but anyone with a functioning brain would see\r
           that infinitely more effort and polish has been put in to\r
           games like Goat Simulator than any of those garbage "asset\r
           flips" that litter the Steam store.\r
           Yes the difference between a good and bad game is\r
           subjective, but broken zero effort trash is much easier to\r
           agree on...\r
\r
\r
\r
     ** Re: (Score:2)\r
        (by mentil ( 1748130 ))\r
\r
        \r
        Will never happen. There are way too many games like PUBG\r
        that would've never become Steam hits if they had such a\r
        policy. It only needs to be enough to make the trolls miss\r
        it/lose out with their scams; $100 would likely be enough.\r
\r
\r
     ** Re: (Score:2)\r
        (by Escogido ( 884359 ))\r
\r
        \r
        Either would shut a lot of starting indie games developers\r
        out of the system, thus preventing said developers and the\r
        gaming industry in general from making future hits.\r
        Basically, all new games are either essentially\r
        reskins/clones of existing games, or trying new mechanics\r
        and/or interactions, and sometimes (rarely) stories and\r
        characters. Given the typical indie level production values\r
        are garbage, in general, only the ones that try to innovate\r
        actually do have some value for the industry. However, first\r
\r
\r
  ** Best New Feature (Score:2)\r
     (by Kunedog ( 1033226 ))\r
\r
     \r
     > A second set of changes was focused on improving how you can\r
     > ignore things you're not interested in. In the past you've been\r
     > able to ignore individual games or product types (like VR, or\r
     > Early Access) you didn't want to see again. But now we've added\r
     > ways for you to also easily ignore individual developers,\r
     > publishers, and curators.\r
     Imagine how much easier browsing Netflix would be if you could\r
     filter out whole franchises and showrunners. Of course, that\r
     might make it obvious how little on Netflix actually interests\r
     you.\r
\r
     ** Re: (Score:2, Funny)\r
        (by Anonymous Coward)\r
\r
        \r
        Then they could charge a fee to shows that don't want to be\r
        filtered by you\r
\r
        ** Re: (Score:2)\r
           (by Archfeld ( 6757 ))\r
\r
           \r
           Sounds like Amazon, and the Kindle Library. No matter what\r
           you search, every 7th listing is a 'Sponsored' listing,\r
           and even if you specify a particular author or absolute\r
           title, you always get 10 or 12 additional 'bonus' items\r
           listed.\r
\r
\r
\r
  ** Early Access Garbage and abandonment (Score:2)\r
     (by shendar ( 674986 ))\r
\r
     \r
     How about if a developer starts a EA Project and walks away\r
     (takes forever with no progress) they are banned from further\r
     EA? How about if they are banned from the store entirely?\r
\r
     ** Re: (Score:3)\r
        (by AC-x ( 735297 ))\r
\r
        \r
        I'm sure the type of developer who does that would simply\r
        abandon their old label and create a new developer account to\r
        carry on.\r
\r
\r
     ** Re: (Score:2)\r
        (by mentil ( 1748130 ))\r
\r
        \r
        "I'm sick of development, so here's version '1.0'."\r
        Also define 'forever' in a timescale that doesn't apply to\r
        Notch, Rockstar or Valve.\r
\r
        ** Re: (Score:2)\r
           (by Calydor ( 739835 ))\r
\r
           \r
           Wait. I see what you did there.\r
           You mentioned three developers.\r
           CONFIRMED: Half-Life 3 is being produced by Notch and\r
           Rockstar!\r
\r
\r
\r
  ** Great Yet Another Meaning For Troll (Score:1)\r
     (by Crashmarik ( 635988 ))\r
\r
     \r
     Already May well be the most overloaded operator in the English\r
     language. As it seems to mean anything anyone anywhere takes\r
     objection to, or otherwise makes them feel bad.\r
\r
     ** Re: Great Yet Another Meaning For Troll (Score:2)\r
        (by Nidi62 ( 1525137 ))\r
\r
        \r
        The troll in me wants to say that "nazi" probably has "troll"\r
        beat  ;)\r
\r
\r
  ** \r
\r
     ** Re: (Score:2)\r
        (by tepples ( 727027 ))\r
\r
        \r
        Furthermore, unlike console and mobile platforms, Steam has\r
        very little switching cost. An end user can always just up\r
        and switch to Itch or Origin or GOG or Humble or wherever\r
        else.\r
\r
\r
  ** Steam's progression (Score:3)\r
     (by Luckyo ( 1726890 ))\r
\r
     \r
     So Steam started as "shove it down their throats" Counter Strike\r
     1.6 launcher. Evolved into highly curated game store over about\r
     a decade.\r
     Then decided to suddenly drop all curation and allow anything\r
     and everything on the platform. Got flooded with garbage. Added\r
     weird "meta gaming" shit like trading cards. Got games that\r
     literally existed just to allow people to get cards. Allowed\r
     some trading and other meta gaming of the system. Even got\r
     pressured by some SJW types to drop politically controversial\r
     games like Hatred and even had their recent porn games brouhaha.\r
     And now, they're doing this. I guess there's just too much\r
     pressure from all directions, and they really just decided that\r
     no, we're not bending to various pressure groups, and instead\r
     just making sure that asset flips and such are not on the store.\r
     If true, good on them.\r
\r
  ** Early Access (Score:2)\r
     (by tylersoze ( 789256 ))\r
\r
     \r
     Eh, all I really want from Valve is a filter that blocks all\r
     "Early Access" games from ever appearing, as I'm browsing for\r
     games on their web site.\r
\r
\r
Commit	Line	Data
299a08f3 NR	1	VALVE EXPLAINS HOW IT DECIDES WHO'S A 'STRAIGHT UP TROLL' \r
	2	PUBLISHING VIDEO GAMES ON STEAM (VICE.COM) \r
	3	\r
	4	Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (BeauHD)\r
	5	from the behind-the-scenes dept.\r
	6	\r
c715ea02	7	o Reference: 0102640946\r
299a08f3 NR	8	o News link: https://games.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2146237/valve-explains-how-it-decides-whos-a-straight-up-troll-publishing-video-games-on-steam\r
	9	o Source link: https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/9kmej7/valve-it-really-does-seem-bad-games-are-made-by-bad-people\r
	10	\r
	11	\r
	12	An anonymous reader quotes a report from Motherboard:\r
	13	Wednesday, Valve, the company that operates the huge online\r
	14	video game store Steam, shared more details about how it plans\r
	15	to control and moderate the ever-increasing number of games\r
	16	published on its platform. In the post published Wednesday,\r
	17	Valve shared more details about how it determines what it\r
	18	considers "outright trolling." "It is vague and we'll tell you\r
	19	why," Valve wrote. "You're a denizen of the internet so you\r
	20	know that trolls come in all forms. On Steam, some are simply\r
	21	trying to rile people up with something we call 'a game shaped\r
	22	object' (ie: a crudely made piece of software that technically\r
	23	and just barely passes our bar as a functioning video game but\r
	24	isn't what 99.9% of folks would say is "good.") Valve goes on\r
	25	to explain that some trolls are trying to scam folks out of\r
	26	their Steam inventory items (digital items that can be traded\r
	27	for real money), while others are trying to generate a small\r
	28	amount of money through a variety of schemes that have to do\r
	29	with how developers use keys to unlock Steam games, while\r
	30	others are trying to "incite and sow discord." "Trolls are\r
	31	figuring out new ways to be loathsome as we write this," Valve\r
	32	said. "But the thing these folks have in common is that they\r
	33	aren't actually interested in good faith efforts to make and\r
	34	sell games to you or anyone. When a developer's motives aren't\r
	35	that, they're probably a troll." One interesting observation\r
	36	Valve shares in the blog post is that it rarely bans\r
	37	individual games from Steam, and more often bans developers\r
	38	and/or publishers entirely. [...] Valve said that its review\r
	39	process for determining that something may be a "troll game"\r
	40	is a "deep assessment" that involves investigating who the\r
	41	developer is, what they've done in the past, their behavior on\r
	42	Steam as a developer, as a customer, their banking\r
	43	information, developers they associate with, and more.\r
	44	\r
	45	\r
	46	** Just charge a $5K "listing fee" (Score:5, Interesting)\r
	47	(by west ( 39918 ))\r
	48	\r
	49	\r
	50	98% of the total garbage disappears (as well as a few percent of\r
	51	the good). Of course "not terribly good games" will still\r
	52	appear, but it gets rid of the absolute garbage.\r
	53	Or if people are appalled at paying to appear on Steam, allow\r
	54	spending $10K for a Steam "check-mark of marketing", and allow\r
	55	users to filter to show only check-marked games.\r
	56	\r
	57	** \r
	58	\r
	59	** Re: (Score:1)\r
	60	(by Anonymous Coward)\r
	61	\r
	62	\r
	63	"Choices"???\r
	64	Thirty-five (35) games were released on Steam today alone .\r
	65	Go fuck yourself.\r
	66	\r
	67	\r
	68	\r
	69	** Steam wants the garbage (Score:3)\r
	70	(by rsilvergun ( 571051 ))\r
	71	\r
72	\r
73	because there's no accounting for taste, and if you took away\r
74	garbage there'd be no Goat Simulator. As the saying goes, one\r
75	man's trash is another's treasure.\r
76	\r
77	Plus, a lot of good devs get their start making trash.\r
78	\r
79	** Re: (Score:3)\r
80	(by AC-x ( 735297 ))\r
81	\r
82	\r
83	> because there's no accounting for taste, and if you took\r
84	> away garbage there'd be no Goat Simulator. As the saying\r
85	> goes, one man's trash is another's treasure.\r
86	I'm sorry, but anyone with a functioning brain would see\r
87	that infinitely more effort and polish has been put in to\r
88	games like Goat Simulator than any of those garbage "asset\r
89	flips" that litter the Steam store.\r
90	Yes the difference between a good and bad game is\r
91	subjective, but broken zero effort trash is much easier to\r
92	agree on...\r
93	\r
94	\r
95	\r
96	** Re: (Score:2)\r
97	(by mentil ( 1748130 ))\r
98	\r
99	\r
100	Will never happen. There are way too many games like PUBG\r
101	that would've never become Steam hits if they had such a\r
102	policy. It only needs to be enough to make the trolls miss\r
103	it/lose out with their scams; $100 would likely be enough.\r
104	\r
105	\r
106	** Re: (Score:2)\r
107	(by Escogido ( 884359 ))\r
108	\r
109	\r
110	Either would shut a lot of starting indie games developers\r
111	out of the system, thus preventing said developers and the\r
112	gaming industry in general from making future hits.\r
113	Basically, all new games are either essentially\r
114	reskins/clones of existing games, or trying new mechanics\r
115	and/or interactions, and sometimes (rarely) stories and\r
116	characters. Given the typical indie level production values\r
117	are garbage, in general, only the ones that try to innovate\r
118	actually do have some value for the industry. However, first\r
119	\r
120	\r
121	** Best New Feature (Score:2)\r
122	(by Kunedog ( 1033226 ))\r
123	\r
124	\r
125	> A second set of changes was focused on improving how you can\r
126	> ignore things you're not interested in. In the past you've been\r
127	> able to ignore individual games or product types (like VR, or\r
128	> Early Access) you didn't want to see again. But now we've added\r
129	> ways for you to also easily ignore individual developers,\r
130	> publishers, and curators.\r
131	Imagine how much easier browsing Netflix would be if you could\r
132	filter out whole franchises and showrunners. Of course, that\r
133	might make it obvious how little on Netflix actually interests\r
134	you.\r
135	\r
136	** Re: (Score:2, Funny)\r
137	(by Anonymous Coward)\r
138	\r
139	\r
140	Then they could charge a fee to shows that don't want to be\r
141	filtered by you\r
142	\r
143	** Re: (Score:2)\r
144	(by Archfeld ( 6757 ))\r
145	\r
146	\r
147	Sounds like Amazon, and the Kindle Library. No matter what\r
148	you search, every 7th listing is a 'Sponsored' listing,\r
149	and even if you specify a particular author or absolute\r
150	title, you always get 10 or 12 additional 'bonus' items\r
151	listed.\r
152	\r
153	\r
154	\r
155	** Early Access Garbage and abandonment (Score:2)\r
156	(by shendar ( 674986 ))\r
157	\r
158	\r
159	How about if a developer starts a EA Project and walks away\r
160	(takes forever with no progress) they are banned from further\r
161	EA? How about if they are banned from the store entirely?\r
162	\r
163	** Re: (Score:3)\r
164	(by AC-x ( 735297 ))\r
165	\r
166	\r
167	I'm sure the type of developer who does that would simply\r
168	abandon their old label and create a new developer account to\r
169	carry on.\r
170	\r
171	\r
172	** Re: (Score:2)\r
173	(by mentil ( 1748130 ))\r
174	\r
175	\r
176	"I'm sick of development, so here's version '1.0'."\r
177	Also define 'forever' in a timescale that doesn't apply to\r
178	Notch, Rockstar or Valve.\r
179	\r
180	** Re: (Score:2)\r
181	(by Calydor ( 739835 ))\r
182	\r
183	\r
184	Wait. I see what you did there.\r
185	You mentioned three developers.\r
186	CONFIRMED: Half-Life 3 is being produced by Notch and\r
187	Rockstar!\r
188	\r
189	\r
190	\r
191	** Great Yet Another Meaning For Troll (Score:1)\r
192	(by Crashmarik ( 635988 ))\r
193	\r
194	\r
195	Already May well be the most overloaded operator in the English\r
196	language. As it seems to mean anything anyone anywhere takes\r
197	objection to, or otherwise makes them feel bad.\r
198	\r
199	** Re: Great Yet Another Meaning For Troll (Score:2)\r
200	(by Nidi62 ( 1525137 ))\r
201	\r
202	\r
203	The troll in me wants to say that "nazi" probably has "troll"\r
204	beat ;)\r
205	\r
206	\r
207	** \r
208	\r
209	** Re: (Score:2)\r
210	(by tepples ( 727027 ))\r
211	\r
212	\r
213	Furthermore, unlike console and mobile platforms, Steam has\r
214	very little switching cost. An end user can always just up\r
215	and switch to Itch or Origin or GOG or Humble or wherever\r
216	else.\r
217	\r
218	\r
219	** Steam's progression (Score:3)\r
220	(by Luckyo ( 1726890 ))\r
221	\r
222	\r
223	So Steam started as "shove it down their throats" Counter Strike\r
224	1.6 launcher. Evolved into highly curated game store over about\r
225	a decade.\r
226	Then decided to suddenly drop all curation and allow anything\r
227	and everything on the platform. Got flooded with garbage. Added\r
228	weird "meta gaming" shit like trading cards. Got games that\r
229	literally existed just to allow people to get cards. Allowed\r
230	some trading and other meta gaming of the system. Even got\r
231	pressured by some SJW types to drop politically controversial\r
232	games like Hatred and even had their recent porn games brouhaha.\r
233	And now, they're doing this. I guess there's just too much\r
234	pressure from all directions, and they really just decided that\r
235	no, we're not bending to various pressure groups, and instead\r
236	just making sure that asset flips and such are not on the store.\r
237	If true, good on them.\r
238	\r
239	** Early Access (Score:2)\r
240	(by tylersoze ( 789256 ))\r
241	\r
242	\r
243	Eh, all I really want from Valve is a filter that blocks all\r
244	"Early Access" games from ever appearing, as I'm browsing for\r
245	games on their web site.\r
246	\r
247	\r