--- /dev/null
+ BATTLETECH LINUX BETA LOADING TEN TIMES FASTER THAN ON WINDOWS \r
+ 10? OH, THE IRONY... \r
+\r
+ [linux_gaming] 2018-10-09_11-00\r
+\r
+ o Reference: 2018-10-09_11-00_BATTLETECH_Linux_beta_l\r
+ o News link: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/9ld2i1/battletech_linux_beta_loading_ten_times_faster/\r
+ o Source link: https://steamcommunity.com/app/637090/discussions/0/1693788384146305062/?ctp=13#c2747650363470418004\r
+\r
+\r
+ ive always noticed that stuff loads much faster on Linux\r
+ compared to windows, can someone explain why?\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** zee220\r
+ ive always noticed that stuff loads much faster on Linux\r
+ compared to windows, can someone explain why?\r
+\r
+ ** pwgen-sy100\r
+ Better filesystem's, better IO scheduling, better scheduling\r
+ in general, less chances of some stupid ass av to clog up all\r
+ the io is what I've found.\r
+\r
+ ** breakbeats573\r
+ Unless you open calculator on Ubuntu. It's comical\r
+ actually.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** zebediah49\r
+ Also what appears to be more aggressive caching, and less\r
+ bloat to burn through memory that would otherwise be\r
+ cached.\r
+ I've note looked too carefully at it, but Windows machines\r
+ usually appear to have a whole lot of free memory, and\r
+ relatively little cached.\r
+ Meanwhile, my laptop has 10GB of "stuff" just floating\r
+ around in memory in case I happen to want it.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** jhansonxi\r
+ Yesterday I updated a Win10 laptop that had been sitting on a\r
+ shelf for two years. I could have installed a dozens systems\r
+ with *buntu using a online install from a mini boot image,\r
+ with all major apps installed and updated, in the time it\r
+ took Win10 to finish its updates, update reattempts, and\r
+ dozen or so reboots. What's worse is that most of the Win10\r
+ updates were either for the OS or Office only. Any Linux\r
+ package manager updates nearly everything and Steam handles\r
+ most of the rest.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Batolemaeus\r
+ AV is the worst offender because it hooks into all I/O. But\r
+ there's also significant overhead in NTFS when dealing with\r
+ many small files. It's partially the cost of the much more\r
+ involved security model on NT (and ACL processing). That's\r
+ why compiling has an extreme performance penalty on Windows,\r
+ since it reads and writes many small files.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** aaronfranke\r
+ In addition to what's already been said, EXT4 doesn't\r
+ fragment nearly as much as NTFS.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Craftkorb\r
+ Linux is pretty good when it comes to utilizing (otherwise)\r
+ free memory, using it to cache ("buffer") parts of your\r
+ drives. Just try to do an reading-intensive I/O task, like\r
+ find / -name stdio.h . The first may take a while, but then\r
+ just rerun the command. It's much quicker, because Linux\r
+ cached (in this case) the file structure the first time, and\r
+ now can just quickly grab it from there again for the second\r
+ time.\r
+ Want to see the caching of files (and not structures) in\r
+ action? Find any medium sized file (about a gigabyte in\r
+ size). Now, call md5sum path/to/the/file on it. Call it again\r
+ afterwards. It should be much faster.\r
+ Don't have such a file handy? You can generate a "large.file"\r
+ using dd if=/dev/zero of=large.file bs=4096 count=262144 . Do\r
+ note that by doing this, Linux will already have (all or\r
+ parts of) the file cached, the difference between both calls\r
+ should be much smaller.\r
+ A much more file-centric system basically requires a good I/O\r
+ cache to get good performance. Crucial for slow spinning\r
+ drives (or worse, magnetic drives), but still really\r
+ important for SSDs.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** robot_rover\r
+ It’s because windows search and windows compatibility\r
+ telemetry are currently using 100% or ur hard disk time\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** JackCourtney\r
+ Not a game, but GIMP loads so much faster on linux than windows\r
+\r
+ ** 8bitcerberus\r
+ Pretty much all of them, GIMP, Krita, Inkscape, Scribus,\r
+ Kdenlive, Blender, etc. Faster than Windows and way faster\r
+ than OS X. Blender is probably the closest I've seen between\r
+ the 3 OSes, but it's still measurably faster on Linux, the\r
+ others though, there's no contest.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** pooerh\r
+ Yeah that's probably mostly because you have gtk libs in\r
+ shared memory from either other open apps or even your entire\r
+ DE, while GIMP is the only thing that needs them on Windows.\r
+\r
+ ** one_is_the_loneliest\r
+ Don't Windows apps typically bundle their own deps, so\r
+ you'll end up with several of the same dep in memory at a\r
+ time?\r
+ However, libraries are typically pretty small, so I'm\r
+ guessing it doesn't explain most of the difference, but\r
+ it's certainly a contributor.\r
+\r
+ ** pooerh\r
+ Whole UI libraries like gtk or Qt are pretty big\r
+ actually, which is why they usually start slower on\r
+ Windows than on Linux. Most Windows apps are written\r
+ using either Win32 API or .net and these aren't bundled\r
+ with apps, these usually start up pretty quickly.\r
+\r
+ ** one_is_the_loneliest\r
+ Huh, I just figured that Windows apps would bundle\r
+ their UI libs, but I guess that makes sense.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Swiftpaw22\r
+ Now, maybe they're not comparing fresh load to fresh load, but\r
+ it wouldn't at all surprise me if it was true when comparing\r
+ second+ load to second+ load as Linux has always shined very\r
+ brightly when it came to caching games to RAM better than\r
+ Windows. Secondary loads in most of the games I've seen load\r
+ faster than on Windows.\r
+\r
+ ** pdp10\r
+ Both the Linux storage I/O subsystem and the Linux\r
+ filesystems themselves are known to be faster than Windows\r
+ NTFS.\r
+ On the majority of modern games you don't see much of a\r
+ difference, though, because the assets are packed into\r
+ ordered binary files and then memory-mapped. In a way, the\r
+ devs are working around something of a Windows weakness by\r
+ doing that (though it's a performance win in general).\r
+ That's a common pattern -- developers architect the game to\r
+ work around Windows weaknesses, and of course don't take\r
+ advantage of the strengths on Linux/POSIX. In principle\r
+ someone could go the other direction, and design for some of\r
+ POSIX/Linux strengths; I've pondered the topic in posts here\r
+ before but neither I nor anyone else has a coherent thesis on\r
+ the topic yet.\r
+\r
+ ** s0v3r1gn\r
+ The largest differences between EXT4 and NTFS that affects\r
+ the I/O are the maximum cluster size and the\r
+ “allocate-on-flush” method of allocating disk space.\r
+ The latest version of NTFS substantially increased the\r
+ maximum cluster size and both the cluster size and the\r
+ “allocate-on-flush” method are substantially less\r
+ impactful on loading times on SSDs than they were on HDDs.\r
+ The largest difference in load times is probably caused by\r
+ Windows memory management being far more zealous in\r
+ purging garbage.\r
+\r
+ ** piotrj3\r
+ This. On loading screen there is a lot of memory\r
+ allocation and thread creation and so on and this is\r
+ where linux is faster.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Tom2Die\r
+ I've pondered the topic in posts here before but neither I\r
+ nor anyone else has a coherent thesis on the topic yet.\r
+ I have faith that some day when you mature a bit more and\r
+ become a PDP-11 you'll find the answers you seek.\r
+\r
+ ** pdp10\r
+ And drop 20 bits from the word?\r
+\r
+ ** Tom2Die\r
+ Wait, did they really? There must be a good reason,\r
+ but I'm not too familiar with older tech.\r
+\r
+ ** pdp10\r
+ The short version is that the PDP-10 is a very\r
+ large 36-bit mainframe, and the PDP-11 is a\r
+ 16-bit minicomputer that only took up a couple of\r
+ racks originally -- a small fraction of the\r
+ physical size. Even thought the model lines sound\r
+ similar, they were very different product lines\r
+ that were used for different purposes.\r
+ PDP-11s were the second model of computer to run\r
+ Unix, and the place where most of Unix was\r
+ invented. Only PDP-11s ran Unix until the late\r
+ 1970s. Later, the most popular hardware to run\r
+ Unix were VAXes, the 32-bit replacement for the\r
+ venerable PDP-11s. DEC didn't really like it when\r
+ customers bought their hardware but not their\r
+ operating systems. Unix never ran on 36-bit\r
+ machines. The big tens are rather unique in\r
+ history.\r
+ However, the command-line syntax was quite\r
+ similar on all of the DEC operating systems.\r
+ Kildall used much of it in CP/M, and through that\r
+ path, much of it went into DOS. DOS also\r
+ inherited a bit of syntax from Xenix, which\r
+ Microsoft had licensed a year or two prior to the\r
+ IBM PC project.\r
+ Microsoft wanted to license Xenix to the\r
+ different OEM computer manufacturers, and sell\r
+ their apps for Xenix in addition to other\r
+ operating systems, prior to the IBM PC\r
+ opportunity falling into their laps. Microsoft\r
+ did continue to make apps for other operating\r
+ systems, most fervently MacOS, the home of Excel.\r
+ Word was on Xenix first, and only much later came\r
+ to the Mac and to the fledgling Windows.\r
+ Unix was originally invented for gaming and word\r
+ processing, and Microsoft Word was originally\r
+ made for Unix. History is stranger than you\r
+ think.\r
+\r
+ ** Tom2Die\r
+ The odd thing is that at one point in time I\r
+ knew most of that, but it's the sort of trivia\r
+ that if one doesn't engage with it it just\r
+ vanishes from memory without notice.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** ihjyuhgyhhg\r
+ Can confirm, witcher 3 and GTA sa loading on Linux is\r
+ unbelievably faster than windows.\r
+\r
+ ** sixsupersonic\r
+ Which is interesting considering those are windows games\r
+ running in wine.\r
+\r
+ ** ihjyuhgyhhg\r
+ Exactly and also w3 runs at 24fps compared to 29fps on\r
+ windows. It was already amazing that game was working but\r
+ this. Linux is future.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** airspeedmph\r
+ Not surprised, I have an old X-Plane benchmark where you can see\r
+ also a striking difference in loading times (link at the\r
+ respective test):\r
+ [1]https://youtu.be/M5ygXe9fWR4?t=12\r
+ I also see very long loading times on Windows for Arma3, Rust\r
+ and a couple of others, so yeah, not surprised.\r
+ Edit TL;DW: X-Plane scenery and all loading in 00:56 min for\r
+ SteamOS and 02:33 min for Windows.\r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ [1] https://youtu.be/M5ygXe9fWR4?t=12\r
+\r
+ ** Leopard1907\r
+ Well , that is a known perk of Linux\r
+ Once upon a time PenguinRecordings ( a Youtube channel ) was\r
+ doing Linux game benchmarks.\r
+ He was always comparing load times on Linux vs Windows. Let it\r
+ be Feral ports or something else , always Linux was faster one.\r
+\r
+ ** Two-Tone-\r
+ PenguinRecordings\r
+ I miss his benchmarks. :c\r
+\r
+ ** Leopard1907\r
+ Yeah , i also miss.\r
+ His enthusiasm was really something else.\r
+ Right after doing Doom 2016 via Wine video , he gone mute.\r
+\r
+ ** Swiftpaw22\r
+ Yep, sad, wonder what happened to him. Sounds like it\r
+ may have been a side project while he was in school.\r
+\r
+ ** Leopard1907\r
+ I hope he is enjoying SteamPlay like we do and\r
+ living his life. :)\r
+\r
+ ** Swiftpaw22\r
+ That doesn't mean we don't still need Linux game\r
+ benchmarking. At least we have Phoronix and a few\r
+ other youtube channels that do it somewhat.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** mykro76\r
+ ITT - many apps and games do load faster on Linux.\r
+ This seems like something worth promoting to game devs as a\r
+ benefit of developing on Linux. How much time must they spend\r
+ staring at their own loading screen when tweaking and testing\r
+ their game?\r
+\r
+ ** Swiftpaw22\r
+ Good point!\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** ThenewLore\r
+ If it only would load the actual missions and not crash on the\r
+ mission title...\r
+\r
+ ** Atlas__risen\r
+ I noticed a big improvement in FFXV on Linux vs Windows as well.\r
+\r
+ ** Offensive_joke_lord\r
+ My windows-using friend is always so impressed by how fast my\r
+ games load. Well, it's happened twice, once with invisible inc\r
+ and once with crusader kings II. I'm pretty sure his computer is\r
+ better spec-wise as well\r
+\r
+ ** Swiftpaw22\r
+ On the first load, or subsequent loads, or all loads? Because\r
+ Linux generally seems faster to load all games on subsequent\r
+ loads at least, but also sometimes on first loads as well.\r
+\r
+ ** Offensive_joke_lord\r
+ Both first loads actually, we only play, and have only\r
+ played, those games together at my house\r
+ P.S. (yes, they're both singleplayer haha, we have fun\r
+ playing singleplayer games and exchanging the controls.)\r
+ P.P.S. (we even divide controls, one time we had 3 people\r
+ and we played the binding of isaac where one person moved,\r
+ one attacked, and the other used items)\r
+\r
+ ** Swiftpaw22\r
+ Cool, and sounds fun, playing together is always best!\r
+ :3\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Greydmiyu\r
+ For me it is both. But that is because when I dumped Win10\r
+ off my gaming rig I purposely went the LVM route so I\r
+ could clear off my largely unused SSD and make it a\r
+ [1]cache for my HDD.\r
+ The problem I had before was that I would get a game, put\r
+ it on the SSD for fast loading, then move on to another\r
+ game and not swap the games out from the SSD. With LVM\r
+ using the SSD as a cache anything I use often gets loaded\r
+ onto the SSD. If it ever fills up stuff I've stopped using\r
+ gets removed from SSD. No need for me to manage it\r
+ manually.\r
+ Recently it has been Warframe and World of Warcraft that\r
+ take up the bulk of my time. From boot to shutdown about\r
+ 80-90% of my file-system calls hit the SSD. I have a 120Gb\r
+ cache for a 2Tb drive and so far it's only about 60%\r
+ utilized.\r
+ A few months of that without touching the Win10 drive I\r
+ still have sitting there and I can drop the cache, add the\r
+ 1Tb of space to my volume, expand my file system, put the\r
+ cache back on and have a 3Tb seamless logical volume to\r
+ play with. :)\r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ [1]\r
+ https://rwmj.wordpress.com/2014/05/22/using-lvms-new-cache-\r
+ feature/\r
+\r
+ ** Swiftpaw22\r
+ The problem I had before was that I would get a game,\r
+ put it on the SSD for fast loading, then move on to\r
+ another game and not swap the games out from the SSD.\r
+ With LVM using the SSD as a cache anything I use often\r
+ gets loaded onto the SSD. If it ever fills up stuff\r
+ I've stopped using gets removed from SSD. No need for\r
+ me to manage it manually.\r
+ I was about to ask wtf the point of this would be, lol,\r
+ but that clears things up, thanks!\r
+ I guess since RAM is more expensive than a SSD, having\r
+ the SSD cache things makes sense as long as RAM is\r
+ still used first and foremost for file caching.\r
+ \r
+ have a 3Tb seamless logical volume to play with\r
+ As long as you have a backup somewhere of all your\r
+ important stuff! Since HDDs are big and cheap I prefer\r
+ just using one big one. Hell, there are 10TB ones out\r
+ now and higher.\r
+\r
+ ** Greydmiyu\r
+ As long as you have a backup somewhere of all your\r
+ important stuff! Since HDDs are big and cheap I\r
+ prefer just using one big one. Hell, there are 10TB\r
+ ones out now and higher.\r
+ These are the two largest drives I have. I used to\r
+ have Win10 on the 1TB and used the 2TB to record\r
+ gaming videos. When I wanted to switch I realized I\r
+ could just drop Linux on the 2TB drive and have the\r
+ 1TB Win10 to fall back to if my litmus test for\r
+ Linux wasn't passed this time around (Warframe & WoW\r
+ being playable).\r
+ Being able to merge the 1TB into the file system is\r
+ just an added bonus for when I'm ready to get rid of\r
+ the safety blanket. Been a month and I think I've\r
+ thought about booting to that drive... once? But the\r
+ desire to try Destiny 2 again passed. :)\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** yoshi314\r
+ too bad this beta won't load its own saves. i am reluctant to\r
+ replay game from scratch again, because neither autosaves nor my\r
+ manual saves will load.\r
+\r
+ ** Dakkaface\r
+ Haven't have that issue myself, it's been working for me\r
+ aside from some graphical glitches. Hopefully they get it\r
+ working for everyone soon.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** MJBrune\r
+ I will say while I do think there is some sort of faster load on\r
+ linux, one user randomly staying on a forum shouldn't really be\r
+ big news and certainly shouldn't be held as true to any real\r
+ means.\r
+\r
+ ** Swiftpaw22\r
+ Linux loading times being faster for many games, especially\r
+ during 2nd+ loads, is 100% confirmed. As for this particular\r
+ game, other users have confirmed the same thing within this\r
+ very post.\r
+ So, while wanting evidence is amiable, we already have it.\r
+\r
+ ** MJBrune\r
+ I mean sure. And there are plenty of benchmarks to show\r
+ it. I just think "10 times" is a bit excessive and random.\r
+ I dunno. Am not trying to crap on your joke either.\r
+\r
+ ** Swiftpaw22\r
+ I don't know how accurate "10" is hehe, but some of the\r
+ benchmark videos show huge differences, so I totally\r
+ get someone say "10 times faster". But we don't have to\r
+ be overly anal, they just mean it's "much faster" I'm\r
+ sure, and that much is confirmed.\r
+ Nothing against anal. :3\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
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