[gofetch.git] / test / expected / SLASHDOT / 0102641010

     STUDY FINDS PROBIOTICS 'NOT AS BENEFICIAL FOR GUT HEALTH AS   \r
                PREVIOUSLY THOUGHT' (THEGUARDIAN.COM)              \r
\r
  Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (BeauHD)\r
  from the contrary-to-popular-belief dept.\r
\r
  o Reference: 0102641010\r
  o News link: https://science.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2153223/study-finds-probiotics-not-as-beneficial-for-gut-health-as-previously-thought\r
  o Source link: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/sep/06/probiotics-not-as-beneficial-for-gut-health-as-previously-thought\r
\r
\r
    An  anonymous reader quotes a report from The Guardian: The gut\r
    microbiome  is  the sum total of all the micro-organisms living\r
    in  a  person's  gut, and has been shown to play a huge role in\r
    human  health.  New  research  has  found probiotics -- usually\r
    taken  as  supplements  or  in foods such as yoghurt, kimchi or\r
    kefir  --  can hinder a patient's gut microbiome from returning\r
    to  normal  after  a  course of antibiotics, and that different\r
    people  respond  to  probiotics in dramatically different ways.\r
    In  the  first  of  two  papers  published in the journal Cell,\r
    researchers  performed  endoscopies and colonoscopies to sample\r
    and  study  the  gut microbiomes of people who took antibiotics\r
    before  and  after  probiotic  consumption.  Another group were\r
    given  samples  of  their  own gut microbiomes collected before\r
    consuming  antibiotics.  The  researchers found the microbiomes\r
    of  those  who  had  taken  the probiotics had suffered a "very\r
    severe  disturbance."  "Once  the  probiotics had colonized the\r
    gut,  they  completely  inhibited  the return of the indigenous\r
    microbiome  which  was  disrupted during antibiotic treatment,"\r
    said  Eran Elinav, an immunologist at the Weizmann Institute of\r
    Science   in  Israel  and  lead  author  on  the  studies.  The\r
    scientists  also  compared  the  gut  microbiomes  of  the  gut\r
    intestinal  tract  of  25 volunteers with that of their stools.\r
    They  found  that stool bacteria only partially correlated with\r
    the  microbiomes  functioning inside their bodies. "So the fact\r
    that  we all almost exclusively rely on stool in our microbiome\r
    research  may  not be a reliable way of studying gut microbiome\r
    health,"  said  Elinav.  In  the  second paper, the researchers\r
    examined  the  colonization  and  impact  of  probiotics  on 15\r
    people  by  sampling  within their gastrointestinal tract. They\r
    divided  the  individuals  into  two  groups:  one were given a\r
    preparation   made   of   11  strains  of  very  commonly  used\r
    probiotics  and  the  other  were given a placebo. Of those who\r
    were   given   probiotics,   he   said,  "We  could  group  the\r
    individuals  into  two  distinct groups: one which resisted the\r
    colonisation   of   the   probiotics,  and  one  in  which  the\r
    probiotics  colonized  the  gut and modified the composition of\r
    the gut microbiome and the genes of the host individual."\r
\r
\r
  ** \r
\r
     ** Re: (Score:2)\r
        (by jblues ( 1703158 ))\r
\r
        \r
        Bacteria are are naturally present in raw fruit and\r
        vegetables and naturally fermented foods, including naturally\r
        fermented bread. Most cold climate cultures relied on\r
        fermented vegetables to get them through the winter. Salt\r
        fermentation of raw vegetables allows the lactobacillus\r
        bacterias to proliferate. Almost all of the sugars are\r
        consumed, however most of the rest of nutritional profile is\r
        intact, including the vitamin C. In some cases the\r
        nutritional profile is enhanced. This is why viking sailors\r
        di\r
\r
\r
  ** Bitter sweet (Score:3, Informative)\r
     (by Anonymous Coward)\r
\r
     \r
     Been saying this for years. I get some people have IBS but the\r
     reliance on things like yogurt is crazy.\r
     Fun little tip for a stomach ache - saliva. Let it build in your\r
     mouth (without water) and swallow in one gulp. Not only does it\r
     give your mouth a natural way to break down any bateria / sugar,\r
     but helps to calm your gut. Mouthwash is the nuclear option.\r
     So much of how your body functions comes down to diet. It's\r
     interesting they do not go into what foods were consumed.\r
\r
     ** \r
\r
        ** Re: (Score:3)\r
           (by omnichad ( 1198475 ))\r
\r
           \r
           The "S" stands for syndrome, which identifies it as a\r
           collection of symptoms and not a disease. It's a diagnosis\r
           only in that there are good ways to treat the symptoms\r
           even when you don't understand the root cause fully.\r
\r
\r
\r
  ** I guess it's back to (Score:2)\r
     (by bobstreo ( 1320787 ))\r
\r
     \r
     shit transplants for the health crazed.  /s\r
     Seriously, is anything really good or really bad for you in\r
     moderation?\r
\r
  ** Don't take probiotic pills (Score:5, Insightful)\r
     (by PopeRatzo ( 965947 ))\r
\r
     \r
     Don't waste your money on probiotic capsules. If you want to try\r
     to increase the amount or variety of bacteria in your guts,\r
     there are tons of delicious foods that are chock full of\r
     probiotics. Olives, pickles, fermented meats like the Italian\r
     delicacy soprasetta (which might be the tastiest thing ever\r
     invented by humans). Kimchi is also good, but it will make you\r
     smell bad, so if you're single, you might want to go easy on the\r
     kimchi.\r
     Also, if you use vinegar on salads, try getting some of that\r
     good cider vinegar that still has the "mother" in it. Shake the\r
     bottle and use like any other vinegar. And of course, yogurt,\r
     kefir, that kind of stuff is delicious too.\r
     I'm not crazy about kombucha. It's a big fad now and there are\r
     places here in California that have kombucha on tap, but it's\r
     not really to my taste. Some people swear by it. I notice that\r
     now when you buy it in the store, they ask for an ID since\r
     there's a small amount of alcohol in it.\r
     Also, alcohol is not really good for your gut bacteria, but\r
     there are more important things in life than gut bacteria, you\r
     know? Just eat a lot of different kinds of food and you'll end\r
     up with good gut bacteria without even trying.\r
\r
     ** Re: Don't take probiotic pills (Score:3)\r
        (by ljw1004 ( 764174 ))\r
\r
        \r
        Why would you advise people on natural sources of probiotics\r
        - in response to an article which said that they're either\r
        ineffectual or actually bad?\r
\r
        ** Re: (Score:2)\r
           (by omnichad ( 1198475 ))\r
\r
           \r
           They likely contain a lot more biodiversity vs. a\r
           monoculture or handful of strains in probiotic\r
           supplements. And they would still probably be ineffectual\r
           most of the time, except after antibiotic use. This study\r
           doesn't cover any of that. Of course if you're trying to\r
           feed the microbiome you already have, eating unfermented\r
           vegetables makes more sense as they still have the complex\r
           sugars like oligosaccharides, fructans and so on that\r
           would feed it. That depends on whether you are\r
           repopulating after an\r
\r
\r
        ** Re: (Score:2)\r
           (by PopeRatzo ( 965947 ))\r
\r
           \r
           > Why would you advise people on natural sources of\r
           > probiotics - in response to an article which said that\r
           > they're either ineffectual or actually bad?\r
           Because on the high probability that this new "study"\r
           actually gets overturned by future research, I want people\r
           to know they can eat delicious healthy food.\r
           Remember when fats were bad? And coffee? And wine was good\r
           for you? And eggs were bad for you? And low-fat diets were\r
           good for losing weight?\r
           And chocolate was bad for you? Do you need me to go on?\r
           When\r
\r
\r
\r
  ** Makes sense to me. (Score:5, Informative)\r
     (by Vegan Cyclist ( 1650427 ))\r
\r
     \r
     Most probiotics are a pretty small range of bacteria, and I\r
     don't know if I've ever seen anywhere that confirms these are\r
     actually the ones we want on a large scale...especially when\r
     some supplements have pretty large doses of these.\r
     From all the reading I've done it seems the best direction will\r
     be to focus on prebiotics, aka the foods that the microbiome\r
     thrives on, which is typically fibrous vegetable matter. Feed\r
     the good ones you've got (rather than trying to implant others),\r
     and you'll probably be better off.\r
\r
  ** This study is done by morons (Score:2)\r
     (by gurps_npc ( 621217 ))\r
\r
     \r
     What idiot thinks that if you give pills of a specific biome you\r
     will get something BESIDES that specific biome???? Look, if you\r
     take probiotic pills, you are replacing your normal biome WITH\r
     the biome of the pills.\r
     That was the presumed GOAL of taking the pills. The fact that\r
     your biome change is the thing you were trying to do, that's why\r
     you take the pills.\r
     If you have a blue car, and then paint it with red paint you are\r
     an idiot if you complain that the car is no longer red.\r
     There are lots of good reas\r
\r
     ** Re: (Score:2)\r
        (by omnichad ( 1198475 ))\r
\r
        \r
        > Look, if you take probiotic pills, you are replacing your\r
        > normal biome WITH the biome of the pills.\r
        The study concluded the opposite (in all cases except with\r
        antibiotic use). And the results are surprising. What it\r
        sounds like is happening is that all of the bacteria in the\r
        probiotic compete for food with the biofilm in your\r
        intestines. However, the probiotic has no way to supplant the\r
        biofilm - that's a protective layer that keeps out competing\r
        bacteria. It just starves the resident population a little\r
        bit as it passes on through. Either way, more or less none of\r
        it stays behind and it all leaves t\r
\r
\r
\r
Commit	Line	Data
299a08f3 NR	1	STUDY FINDS PROBIOTICS 'NOT AS BENEFICIAL FOR GUT HEALTH AS \r
	2	PREVIOUSLY THOUGHT' (THEGUARDIAN.COM) \r
	3	\r
	4	Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (BeauHD)\r
	5	from the contrary-to-popular-belief dept.\r
	6	\r
c715ea02	7	o Reference: 0102641010\r
299a08f3 NR	8	o News link: https://science.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2153223/study-finds-probiotics-not-as-beneficial-for-gut-health-as-previously-thought\r
	9	o Source link: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/sep/06/probiotics-not-as-beneficial-for-gut-health-as-previously-thought\r
	10	\r
	11	\r
	12	An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Guardian: The gut\r
	13	microbiome is the sum total of all the micro-organisms living\r
	14	in a person's gut, and has been shown to play a huge role in\r
	15	human health. New research has found probiotics -- usually\r
	16	taken as supplements or in foods such as yoghurt, kimchi or\r
	17	kefir -- can hinder a patient's gut microbiome from returning\r
	18	to normal after a course of antibiotics, and that different\r
	19	people respond to probiotics in dramatically different ways.\r
	20	In the first of two papers published in the journal Cell,\r
	21	researchers performed endoscopies and colonoscopies to sample\r
	22	and study the gut microbiomes of people who took antibiotics\r
	23	before and after probiotic consumption. Another group were\r
	24	given samples of their own gut microbiomes collected before\r
	25	consuming antibiotics. The researchers found the microbiomes\r
	26	of those who had taken the probiotics had suffered a "very\r
	27	severe disturbance." "Once the probiotics had colonized the\r
	28	gut, they completely inhibited the return of the indigenous\r
	29	microbiome which was disrupted during antibiotic treatment,"\r
	30	said Eran Elinav, an immunologist at the Weizmann Institute of\r
	31	Science in Israel and lead author on the studies. The\r
	32	scientists also compared the gut microbiomes of the gut\r
	33	intestinal tract of 25 volunteers with that of their stools.\r
	34	They found that stool bacteria only partially correlated with\r
	35	the microbiomes functioning inside their bodies. "So the fact\r
	36	that we all almost exclusively rely on stool in our microbiome\r
	37	research may not be a reliable way of studying gut microbiome\r
	38	health," said Elinav. In the second paper, the researchers\r
	39	examined the colonization and impact of probiotics on 15\r
	40	people by sampling within their gastrointestinal tract. They\r
	41	divided the individuals into two groups: one were given a\r
	42	preparation made of 11 strains of very commonly used\r
	43	probiotics and the other were given a placebo. Of those who\r
	44	were given probiotics, he said, "We could group the\r
	45	individuals into two distinct groups: one which resisted the\r
	46	colonisation of the probiotics, and one in which the\r
	47	probiotics colonized the gut and modified the composition of\r
	48	the gut microbiome and the genes of the host individual."\r
	49	\r
	50	\r
	51	** \r
	52	\r
	53	** Re: (Score:2)\r
	54	(by jblues ( 1703158 ))\r
	55	\r
	56	\r
	57	Bacteria are are naturally present in raw fruit and\r
	58	vegetables and naturally fermented foods, including naturally\r
	59	fermented bread. Most cold climate cultures relied on\r
	60	fermented vegetables to get them through the winter. Salt\r
	61	fermentation of raw vegetables allows the lactobacillus\r
	62	bacterias to proliferate. Almost all of the sugars are\r
	63	consumed, however most of the rest of nutritional profile is\r
	64	intact, including the vitamin C. In some cases the\r
	65	nutritional profile is enhanced. This is why viking sailors\r
	66	di\r
	67	\r
	68	\r
	69	** Bitter sweet (Score:3, Informative)\r
	70	(by Anonymous Coward)\r
	71	\r
72	\r
73	Been saying this for years. I get some people have IBS but the\r
74	reliance on things like yogurt is crazy.\r
75	Fun little tip for a stomach ache - saliva. Let it build in your\r
76	mouth (without water) and swallow in one gulp. Not only does it\r
77	give your mouth a natural way to break down any bateria / sugar,\r
78	but helps to calm your gut. Mouthwash is the nuclear option.\r
79	So much of how your body functions comes down to diet. It's\r
80	interesting they do not go into what foods were consumed.\r
81	\r
82	** \r
83	\r
84	** Re: (Score:3)\r
85	(by omnichad ( 1198475 ))\r
86	\r
87	\r
88	The "S" stands for syndrome, which identifies it as a\r
89	collection of symptoms and not a disease. It's a diagnosis\r
90	only in that there are good ways to treat the symptoms\r
91	even when you don't understand the root cause fully.\r
92	\r
93	\r
94	\r
95	** I guess it's back to (Score:2)\r
96	(by bobstreo ( 1320787 ))\r
97	\r
98	\r
99	shit transplants for the health crazed. /s\r
100	Seriously, is anything really good or really bad for you in\r
101	moderation?\r
102	\r
103	** Don't take probiotic pills (Score:5, Insightful)\r
104	(by PopeRatzo ( 965947 ))\r
105	\r
106	\r
107	Don't waste your money on probiotic capsules. If you want to try\r
108	to increase the amount or variety of bacteria in your guts,\r
109	there are tons of delicious foods that are chock full of\r
110	probiotics. Olives, pickles, fermented meats like the Italian\r
111	delicacy soprasetta (which might be the tastiest thing ever\r
112	invented by humans). Kimchi is also good, but it will make you\r
113	smell bad, so if you're single, you might want to go easy on the\r
114	kimchi.\r
115	Also, if you use vinegar on salads, try getting some of that\r
116	good cider vinegar that still has the "mother" in it. Shake the\r
117	bottle and use like any other vinegar. And of course, yogurt,\r
118	kefir, that kind of stuff is delicious too.\r
119	I'm not crazy about kombucha. It's a big fad now and there are\r
120	places here in California that have kombucha on tap, but it's\r
121	not really to my taste. Some people swear by it. I notice that\r
122	now when you buy it in the store, they ask for an ID since\r
123	there's a small amount of alcohol in it.\r
124	Also, alcohol is not really good for your gut bacteria, but\r
125	there are more important things in life than gut bacteria, you\r
126	know? Just eat a lot of different kinds of food and you'll end\r
127	up with good gut bacteria without even trying.\r
128	\r
129	** Re: Don't take probiotic pills (Score:3)\r
130	(by ljw1004 ( 764174 ))\r
131	\r
132	\r
133	Why would you advise people on natural sources of probiotics\r
134	- in response to an article which said that they're either\r
135	ineffectual or actually bad?\r
136	\r
137	** Re: (Score:2)\r
138	(by omnichad ( 1198475 ))\r
139	\r
140	\r
141	They likely contain a lot more biodiversity vs. a\r
142	monoculture or handful of strains in probiotic\r
143	supplements. And they would still probably be ineffectual\r
144	most of the time, except after antibiotic use. This study\r
145	doesn't cover any of that. Of course if you're trying to\r
146	feed the microbiome you already have, eating unfermented\r
147	vegetables makes more sense as they still have the complex\r
148	sugars like oligosaccharides, fructans and so on that\r
149	would feed it. That depends on whether you are\r
150	repopulating after an\r
151	\r
152	\r
153	** Re: (Score:2)\r
154	(by PopeRatzo ( 965947 ))\r
155	\r
156	\r
157	> Why would you advise people on natural sources of\r
158	> probiotics - in response to an article which said that\r
159	> they're either ineffectual or actually bad?\r
160	Because on the high probability that this new "study"\r
161	actually gets overturned by future research, I want people\r
162	to know they can eat delicious healthy food.\r
163	Remember when fats were bad? And coffee? And wine was good\r
164	for you? And eggs were bad for you? And low-fat diets were\r
165	good for losing weight?\r
166	And chocolate was bad for you? Do you need me to go on?\r
167	When\r
168	\r
169	\r
170	\r
171	** Makes sense to me. (Score:5, Informative)\r
172	(by Vegan Cyclist ( 1650427 ))\r
173	\r
174	\r
175	Most probiotics are a pretty small range of bacteria, and I\r
176	don't know if I've ever seen anywhere that confirms these are\r
177	actually the ones we want on a large scale...especially when\r
178	some supplements have pretty large doses of these.\r
179	From all the reading I've done it seems the best direction will\r
180	be to focus on prebiotics, aka the foods that the microbiome\r
181	thrives on, which is typically fibrous vegetable matter. Feed\r
182	the good ones you've got (rather than trying to implant others),\r
183	and you'll probably be better off.\r
184	\r
185	** This study is done by morons (Score:2)\r
186	(by gurps_npc ( 621217 ))\r
187	\r
188	\r
189	What idiot thinks that if you give pills of a specific biome you\r
190	will get something BESIDES that specific biome???? Look, if you\r
191	take probiotic pills, you are replacing your normal biome WITH\r
192	the biome of the pills.\r
193	That was the presumed GOAL of taking the pills. The fact that\r
194	your biome change is the thing you were trying to do, that's why\r
195	you take the pills.\r
196	If you have a blue car, and then paint it with red paint you are\r
197	an idiot if you complain that the car is no longer red.\r
198	There are lots of good reas\r
199	\r
200	** Re: (Score:2)\r
201	(by omnichad ( 1198475 ))\r
202	\r
203	\r
204	> Look, if you take probiotic pills, you are replacing your\r
205	> normal biome WITH the biome of the pills.\r
206	The study concluded the opposite (in all cases except with\r
207	antibiotic use). And the results are surprising. What it\r
208	sounds like is happening is that all of the bacteria in the\r
209	probiotic compete for food with the biofilm in your\r
210	intestines. However, the probiotic has no way to supplant the\r
211	biofilm - that's a protective layer that keeps out competing\r
212	bacteria. It just starves the resident population a little\r
213	bit as it passes on through. Either way, more or less none of\r
214	it stays behind and it all leaves t\r
215	\r
216	\r
217	\r