--- /dev/null
+ SOFTWARE DEVELOPERS ARE NOW MORE VALUABLE TO COMPANIES THAN \r
+ MONEY, SAYS SURVEY (CNBC.COM) \r
+\r
+ Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (BeauHD)\r
+ from the new-breed-of-corporate-leaders dept.\r
+\r
+ o News link: https://developers.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2024232/software-developers-are-now-more-valuable-to-companies-than-money-says-survey\r
+ o Source link: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/06/companies-worry-more-about-access-to-software-developers-than-capital.html\r
+\r
+\r
+ An anonymous reader quotes a report from CNBC: As our global\r
+ economy increasingly comes to run on technology-enabled rails\r
+ and every company becomes a tech company, demand for\r
+ high-quality software engineers is at an all-time high. A\r
+ recent study from Stripe and Harris Poll found that 61 percent\r
+ of C-suite executives believe access to developer talent is a\r
+ threat to the success of their business. Perhaps more\r
+ surprisingly -- as we mark a decade after the financial crisis\r
+ -- this threat was even ranked above capital constraints. And\r
+ yet, despite being many corporations' most precious resource,\r
+ developer talents are all too often squandered. Collectively,\r
+ companies today lose upward of $300 billion a year paying down\r
+ "technical debt," as developers pour time into maintaining\r
+ legacy systems or dealing with the ramifications of bad\r
+ software. This is especially worrisome, given the outsized\r
+ impact developers have on companies' chances of success.\r
+ Software developers don't have a monopoly on good ideas, but\r
+ their skill set makes them a uniquely deep source of\r
+ innovation, productivity and new economic connections. When\r
+ deployed correctly, developers can be economic multipliers --\r
+ coefficients that dramatically ratchet up the output of the\r
+ teams and companies of which they're a part.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** So why not treat them well? (Score:5, Insightful)\r
+ (by gweihir ( 88907 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Naa, that would be un-capitalist. Developers must be cheap\r
+ wage-slaves that do not have a real career-path and are unable\r
+ to find a job once they hit 50. That will surely not have any\r
+ impact on whether smart people go into software writing or not,\r
+ right?\r
+\r
+ ** Re: So why not treat them well? (Score:1)\r
+ (by Dannis12345 ( 5512754 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ This is really true. As the fact that the IT leads the world.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3)\r
+ (by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > But even so, I hear these horror stories about how\r
+ > software developers are treated and I just have not seen\r
+ > it.\r
+ Me neither. I have worked for companies that had catered\r
+ meals, free soda, laundry service, sky diving bonding\r
+ trips, etc. I have had plenty of opportunities to travel.\r
+ I have worked some late nights, and done a few death\r
+ marches, but those only lasted a few weeks, out of a\r
+ career lasting decades.\r
+ Software developers are likely the most spoiled employees\r
+ in the history of the world.\r
+ People will alway whine.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by gweihir ( 88907 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > People will alway whine.\r
+ And there you are wrong. I have a pretty good career\r
+ myself. But I see how many coders are treated and I am\r
+ not surprised at all that there are by far not enough\r
+ good ones.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:1)\r
+ (by NicknameUnavailable ( 4134147 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ As much as I'm for better treatment and perks for\r
+ coders, the issue of "not enough good ones" isn't\r
+ because of that. There's only so many smart people,\r
+ dumb people and mediocre people don't make good\r
+ coders. Some of the above-average ones might make\r
+ the cut as maintenance coders or some incredibly\r
+ soul-crushing AGILE environment where they don't\r
+ actually have to think, but for the most part any\r
+ programming position of note requires a 150+ IQ to\r
+ do even moderately well.\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by HornWumpus ( 783565 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ How many 3+ standard deviation people are we\r
+ supposed to believe you know?\r
+ Same crit as you gave the GP. I doubt you know\r
+ even one.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by gweihir ( 88907 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ The issue is very much that a lot of the few\r
+ people that could be good at it, see the working\r
+ conditions and career options and go somewhere\r
+ else. Also, 150+IQ people basically do not exist.\r
+ I gather this is some wired non-standard US\r
+ scale...\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3)\r
+ (by _Sharp'r_ ( 649297 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Having a measured IQ >150, I can tell you with\r
+ my excellent two-minute Googling skills there\r
+ are approximately 300K in the U.S. if you're\r
+ using the Stanford-Binet scale. For the\r
+ Wechsler scale, it's more like 140K, which is\r
+ still a lot of people. Heck, the Prometheus\r
+ Society's cut-off for membership is 160+. I\r
+ guess to you, they basically don't exist...\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > ... see the working conditions and career\r
+ > options and go somewhere else.\r
+ Where do they go?\r
+ Doctors, lawyers and investment bankers work\r
+ longer hours than programmers. Nearly everyone\r
+ else makes less money.\r
+ Maybe they become underwater welders?\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re:So why not treat them well? (Score:5, Interesting)\r
+ (by spagthorpe ( 111133 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ It won't really have any impact, because young people don't\r
+ think they'll ever get old. Or it will be different for them.\r
+ Had a 20-something at my last job make a number of comments\r
+ about some of the older developers there, saying they'd hate\r
+ to still be working at that age, and that they are probably\r
+ stuck doing the same work because they can't learn anything\r
+ new. I don't know why he was telling me this, as I was twice\r
+ his age at the time, but it's obvious that he doesn't think\r
+ he'll be in the same position.\r
+ They ultimately did lay off a lot of their senior engineers\r
+ and replace a lot of the position with 20-somethings,\r
+ including in project management positions. A number of those\r
+ projects never saw the light of day after years of re-writes\r
+ into new frameworks.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** And yet there's agile (Score:2)\r
+ (by xxxJonBoyxxx ( 565205 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ And open concept offices.\r
+\r
+ ** Re:And yet there's agile (Score:5, Interesting)\r
+ (by Seven Spirals ( 4924941 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ I've quit one job and refused two others because of open\r
+ offices. The two I refused were absolutely flabbergasted by\r
+ my refusal. They literally could not understand why anyone\r
+ wouldn't want to be in an open office space surrounded on 3.8\r
+ sides by glass-walled manager offices, loud ugly marketing\r
+ girls, and a bunch of H1B dudes who couldn't be bothered to\r
+ wear deodorant. That place (MX Logic) had the worst looking\r
+ office I've ever seen. One of them offered me the job on the\r
+ spot after the interview and I was already shutting them down\r
+ and refusing it before they even got started. I told them\r
+ there is about a zero percent chance of getting anyone really\r
+ talented to take the gig, because they had this ridiculous\r
+ noisy slave pit thing going. I nearly left before I even\r
+ *did* the interview I was so disgusted with the place. The\r
+ hiring manager was (of course) offended, but he was also\r
+ clueless. About a year after that interview I had a guy come\r
+ up to me at the local Maker Space who was one of the\r
+ "technical resources" for the company during the interview\r
+ (quiet guy in the back of the room). He told me "My god was I\r
+ cheering when you refused them over the goddamn open\r
+ workspace idiocy. My boss was upset over that for weeks. They\r
+ still talk about it during the hiring process and argue about\r
+ it."\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:1)\r
+ (by bkmoore ( 1910118 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > ....One of them offered me the job on the spot after the\r
+ > interview and I was already shutting them down and\r
+ > refusing it before they even got started.....\r
+ It begs the question, why even apply there in the first\r
+ place.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3)\r
+ (by Klaxton ( 609696 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > It begs the question, why even apply there in the first\r
+ > place.\r
+ So you could see their office environment tucked away\r
+ behind the job description on the internet?\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by Ocker3 ( 1232550 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ "But I can See everyone and I know that they're working" -\r
+ Manager If someone doesn't know enough about their direct\r
+ report's job that they don't know whether they're working\r
+ or not without seeing them at their desk, there's a\r
+ problem. Not all jobs are reduced in efficiency by a\r
+ cubicle farm, but if your job is primarily about mental\r
+ focus for the time-intensive tasks, then most people will\r
+ benefit from having their own room. And the employer will\r
+ probably benefit enough that an actual room is a\r
+ worthwhile\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by erp_consultant ( 2614861 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Sounds like a real horror show. Safe to say you made the\r
+ right move.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3)\r
+ (by Klaxton ( 609696 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ I've worked in the industry for many years, usually with a\r
+ private office or shared with one person. Recently got a job\r
+ in an agile "scrum" shop, which went to an open floorplan a\r
+ few months later. Miserable experience on both counts. Every\r
+ day you get a Jira work ticket for some "the user wants to\r
+ see" granule of a thing that you had no part in designing.\r
+ Zero privacy. It is amazingly de-motivating.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by HornWumpus ( 783565 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Microsoft owns javascript? You have things backwards.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by gweihir ( 88907 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ I was thinking the same thing. Although JavaScript, Java,\r
+ and the surrounding ecosystems could have come from MS, no\r
+ doubt.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Yeah, right (Score:5, Insightful)\r
+ (by Anonymous Coward)\r
+\r
+ \r
+ If they considered developers more important than money, they'd\r
+ pay the developers more to keep the skilled ones. Every time a\r
+ developer leaves a company, a hunk of business knowledge walks\r
+ out the door with him.\r
+ Companies care about that quarter's finance report, and the\r
+ C-level execs care only about fleecing the company for all they\r
+ can stuff into their own pockets. Look at what they do, not what\r
+ some survey says.\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3, Interesting)\r
+ (by Anonymous Coward)\r
+\r
+ \r
+ LOL. You've massively understated the ageism and the issue\r
+ of job qualifications.\r
+ First, the ageism problem is associated also with a\r
+ problem that people aren't allowed to take breaks. After\r
+ having great success even to the point of being a chief\r
+ architect on an 80-man program, I quit working for a while\r
+ and now can't find anyone who will let me start at the\r
+ bottom.\r
+ But, the job qualification thing is really ridiculous. A\r
+ good software engineer is a specialist at picking up new\r
+ domains, languages, frameworks,\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by Anonymous Brave Guy ( 457657 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > Don't know where you live, but in most places I think\r
+ > developers are paid fairly well. We offer\r
+ > straight-out-of-school newbies $80-$90k, and still some\r
+ > turn us down for better offers.\r
+ Most places are not the Bay Area or a few big US cities.\r
+ In most of the world, new starter salaries in software\r
+ development are rarely more than 1/3 of that level, and in\r
+ many places they are much lower.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by Ocker3 ( 1232550 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Your post is probably at zero rep because it was posted\r
+ AC, but you make good points.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3)\r
+ (by Klaxton ( 609696 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Software developers generally have to do what they are told,\r
+ and work on whatever the boss thinks is important. You don't\r
+ get to decide whether it is going to bring in money or not.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Yeah haven't heard that one before (Score:2)\r
+ (by Crashmarik ( 635988 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Maybe it just sounds too much like 40 years of businesses\r
+ claiming there was a shortage of engineers in the U.S. when what\r
+ they meant was there was a shortage of engineers that could be\r
+ treated really badly.\r
+ Or maybe it's the fact that companies only seem to be willing to\r
+ hire H1Bs that will do anything not to go back to their\r
+ shitholes, or young kids who are stupid enough to believe\r
+ managements promises and have no family or social life to\r
+ distract from putting in 80+ hour weeks ?\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by zlives ( 2009072 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ you misread, and i quote\r
+ "developer talent is a threat to the success of their\r
+ business" thus the hiring of no talent, spot filling h1b. and\r
+ if they accidentally get a talented h1b... replace and\r
+ repeat.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** FTFY (Score:5, Funny)\r
+ (by thevirtualcat ( 1071504 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Software Developers Who Are Willing To Work For Uncompetitive\r
+ Wages And No Benefits Are Now More Valuable To Companies Than\r
+ Money, Says Survey\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by Seven Spirals ( 4924941 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Fucking-A right. Period.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** .ORG (Score:4, Insightful)\r
+ (by fluffernutter ( 1411889 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ This just tells me that developers need to get organized and\r
+ start saying no to 80+ work weeks collectively. Otherwise it\r
+ will be divided they fall, forever.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by Ocker3 ( 1232550 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ How do we re-invent Unions without calling them Unions and\r
+ avoid the very real baggage that the term has in the USA?\r
+ Guilds?\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** In other news... (Score:1)\r
+ (by Robobox Computer ( 5357621 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ The sun rose today.\r
+\r
+ ** Legacy systems are out of control (Score:2)\r
+ (by xack ( 5304745 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Microsoft has just announced paid extended support for Windows 7\r
+ as too many companies are using it. There’s a lot of server 2003\r
+ systems out there too, with companies rather risking security\r
+ exploits than upgrade.\r
+\r
+ ** \r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by Ocker3 ( 1232550 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ A pity that new features aren't separated from security\r
+ patches to allow users to keep their old platform secure\r
+ without feature changes.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by xvan ( 2935999 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > Newer file browsers no longer let you edit the file path,\r
+ > you have to click on everything to get somewhere\r
+ Ctrl+L , no, you don't need to thank me.\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:1)\r
+ (by Anonymous Coward)\r
+\r
+ \r
+ So I'm supposed to upgrade the single Windows 2003 system I\r
+ have, running as a non-networked VM, hosting a proprietary\r
+ application on a system we need to lookup legacy data that\r
+ never changes so I can pay to upgrade to a modern system,\r
+ figure out a way to migrate the data from one proprietary\r
+ application to a new and different system just so I can have\r
+ support I don't need on a system that can't realistically be\r
+ exploited in the first place?\r
+ OR I'm supposed to pay a premium for extended support on the\r
+ curren\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3)\r
+ (by gweihir ( 88907 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ That is a different problem. Their new offerings are just\r
+ really bad. Also, nobody sane used MS crap on server-side.\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** Yet us 50+ folks are unemployed (Score:4, Informative)\r
+ (by Snotnose ( 212196 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Forget how long I've been out of work, it's been 2-3 years now\r
+ since I quit looking.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:3)\r
+ (by Locke2005 ( 849178 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ I'm 57 and got at least 3 calls TODAY offering to submit me\r
+ for contract software positions. Granted, a lot of recruiters\r
+ try to low-ball me on the hourly rate, but they change their\r
+ tune as soon as you call their bluff and tell them you're not\r
+ interested at that low rate.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:1)\r
+ (by Anonymous Coward)\r
+\r
+ \r
+ > I'm 57 and got at least 3 calls TODAY offering to submit\r
+ > me for contract software positions. Granted, a lot of\r
+ > recruiters try to low-ball me on the hourly rate, but they\r
+ > change their tune as soon as you call their bluff and tell\r
+ > them you're not interested at that low rate.\r
+ I get recruiters wanting to submit me all the time. Then\r
+ after a week, I follow up and the "the position is\r
+ closed." I think recruiters are assholes who got fired\r
+ from see car lots for ethics violations.\r
+ So, when you get a real job with health insurance, you'll\r
+ be an outlier.\r
+ Of course, that's assumimg you're not full of shit.\r
+\r
+ ** Re: (Score:2)\r
+ (by Locke2005 ( 849178 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ I agree; I regard recruiters as people that weren't\r
+ ethical enough to get jobs as used car salesmen. I\r
+ interviewed for a job once, didn't get any response, so\r
+ I started another position. A month after the initial\r
+ interview, the recruiter for the first position offered\r
+ me $1500 cash in a plain, unmarked envelope to quit the\r
+ job I'd just started and take the other position\r
+ instead! (Apparently the cash came out of his\r
+ commission.) So yes, recruiters know nothing, rely\r
+ almost entirely on keyword searching in r\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+\r
+ ** So, the old adage? (Score:2)\r
+ (by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Employees are our most valuable asset? I'm pretty sure it's\r
+ actually still money.\r
+\r
+ ** Nonsensical headline... (Score:2)\r
+ (by JoeDuncan ( 874519 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ It's like saying "gold is worth more than money!" - totally\r
+ meaningless.\r
+ One (gold, developers) is a commodity that IS exchanged, the\r
+ other (money) is the medium OF exchange.\r
+ Saying that "commodity X" is worth more than "exchange medium Y"\r
+ makes no sense because a commodity CANNOT be worth "more" or\r
+ "less" than the medium of exchange used - it can only ever be\r
+ worth a specified amount of Y.\r
+\r
+ ** Talk about not understanding an article / Poll (Score:2)\r
+ (by Harlequin80 ( 1671040 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ No where does it say that companies think developers are more\r
+ important than money.\r
+ The results state that the companies perceive the risk of not\r
+ being able to find skills as higher than the risks of not being\r
+ able to access capital.\r
+ This is especially true if you're a cash rich organisation.\r
+ In the current financial climate finding returns on your\r
+ investments is hard. Interest rates are at historically low\r
+ levels, bond returns are zero, and so that leaves higher risk\r
+ investments to get returns. That effecti\r
+\r
+ ** lots of employees are "worth more than money"... (Score:2)\r
+ (by bkmoore ( 1910118 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ What management school fails to teach young inexperienced\r
+ executives: If the company's future existence depends on whether\r
+ or not an employee does the job correctly or not, they are\r
+ "worth more than money".\r
+\r
+ ** Tech debt is a business decision (Score:2)\r
+ (by swm ( 171547 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Incurring technical debt is a business decision.\r
+ And it may well be the right decision.\r
+ For example, in a startup, time to market typically trumps\r
+ software quality.\r
+ And there are a lot of startups in the software field...\r
+\r
+ ** Not at my compamy (Score:1)\r
+ (by dccase ( 56453 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Not at my company, and certainly not at any other\r
+ publicly-traded company.\r
+ Maybe at some privately-held company until it gets bought out.\r
+\r
+ ** Employees are our Most Valuable Asset (Score:3)\r
+ (by R3d M3rcury ( 871886 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ Right behind [1]carbon paper. [dilbert.com]\r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ \r
+ [1] http://dilbert.com/strip/1993-03-03\r
+\r
+ ** And this is why we keep them chained to (Score:2)\r
+ (by Ranger ( 1783 ))\r
+\r
+ \r
+ a cubicle.\r
+\r
+\r
git://git.nikiroo.be / gofetch.git / blobdiff