git://git.nikiroo.be / gofetch.git / blame
| Commit | Line | Data |
|---|---|---|
| 299a08f3 NR |
1 | 'I'VE SEEN THE FUTURE OF CONSUMER AI, AND IT DOESN'T HAVE ONE' \r |
| 2 | (THEREGISTER.CO.UK) \r | |
| 3 | \r | |
| 4 | Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (msmash)\r | |
| 5 | from the there-is-no-spoon dept.\r | |
| 6 | \r | |
| 7 | o News link: https://tech.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/205221/ive-seen-the-future-of-consumer-ai-and-it-doesnt-have-one\r | |
| 8 | o Source link: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/09/05/consumer_ai_ifa_2018_roundup/\r | |
| 9 | \r | |
| 10 | \r | |
| 11 | Andrew Orlowski of The Register recounts all the gadgets\r | |
| 12 | supercharged with AI that he came across at IFA tradeshow last\r | |
| 13 | week -- and wonders what value AI brought to the table. He\r | |
| 14 | writes: I didn't see a blockchain toothbrush at IFA in Berlin\r | |
| 15 | last week, but I'm sure there was one lurking about somewhere.\r | |
| 16 | With 30 vast halls to cover, I didn't look too hard for it.\r | |
| 17 | But I did see many things almost as tragic that no one could\r | |
| 18 | miss -- AI being squeezed into almost every conceivable bit of\r | |
| 19 | consumer electronics. But none were convincing. If ever there\r | |
| 20 | was a solution looking for a problem, it's ramming AI into\r | |
| 21 | gadgets to show of a company's machine learning prowess. For\r | |
| 22 | the consumer it adds unreliability, cost and complexity, and\r | |
| 23 | the annoyance of being prompted. [...] Back to LG, which takes\r | |
| 24 | 2018's prize for sticking AI into a superfluous gadget. The\r | |
| 25 | centrepiece of its AI efforts this year is a robot, ClOi. Put\r | |
| 26 | Google Assistant or Alexa on wheels, and you have ClOi. I\r | |
| 27 | asked the booth person what exactly ClOi could do to be told\r | |
| 28 | "it can take notes for your shopping list." Why wasn't this\r | |
| 29 | miracle of the Fourth Industrial Revolution let loose on the\r | |
| 30 | LG floor? I wondered -- a question answered by this account of\r | |
| 31 | ClOi's debut at CES in January. Clearly things haven't\r | |
| 32 | improved much -- this robot buddy was kept indoors.\r | |
| 33 | \r | |
| 34 | \r | |
| 35 | ** Stupid industry fads (Score:5, Funny)\r | |
| 36 | (by Spy Handler ( 822350 ))\r | |
| 37 | \r | |
| 38 | \r | |
| 39 | 3D printer in every home will fundamentally change human society\r | |
| 40 | IoT internet connected belt buckles and toothbrushes will take\r | |
| 41 | over the world\r | |
| 42 | AI will revolutionize consumer electronics\r | |
| 43 | Net PC from Sun will dominate the computer industry (this one is\r | |
| 44 | really old)\r | |
| 45 | \r | |
| 46 | ** Re:Stupid industry fads (Score:5, Insightful)\r | |
| 47 | (by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ))\r | |
| 48 | \r | |
| 49 | \r | |
| 50 | Excessive hype is always followed by a trough of\r | |
| 51 | disillusionment. But as the TOD fades, plenty of mature,\r | |
| 52 | practical applications are likely to emerge. The\r | |
| 53 | technological naysayers are usually even more wrong than the\r | |
| 54 | hypesters.\r | |
| 55 | [1]Hype cycle [wikipedia.org]\r | |
| 56 | \r | |
| 57 | \r | |
| 58 | \r | |
| 59 | \r | |
| 60 | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hype_cycle\r | |
| 61 | \r | |
| 62 | ** Re: (Score:2)\r | |
| 63 | (by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ))\r | |
| 64 | \r | |
| 65 | \r | |
| 66 | > Excessive hype is always followed by a trough of\r | |
| 67 | > disillusionment.\r | |
| 68 | Pro Tip: Get out in front and mention this *before* taking\r | |
| 69 | your date home. Better for her to hear it from you than\r | |
| 70 | her working it out on her own ... :-)\r | |
| 71 | \r | |
| 72 | \r | |
| 73 | ** Re:Stupid industry fads (Score:4, Insightful)\r | |
| 74 | (by CaptainDork ( 3678879 ))\r | |
| 75 | \r | |
| 76 | \r | |
| 77 | If smart phones and tablets are any indicator ...\r | |
| 78 | AI, too, is an evolutionary dead end.\r | |
| 79 | It's a buzz word with a vacuous definition.\r | |
| 80 | \r | |
| 81 | ** Re: (Score:2)\r | |
| 82 | (by Q-Hack! ( 37846 ))\r | |
| 83 | \r | |
| 84 | \r | |
| 85 | Not a lot different than back in the 1950's when the\r | |
| 86 | trend was to create all manor of odd gadgets to make\r | |
| 87 | life easier. Those deemed useful are still around...\r | |
| 88 | The rest can be found in junk markets around the world.\r | |
| 89 | But hey, the Cracker-barrel's of the future will still\r | |
| 90 | need stuff to decorate their walls with.\r | |
| 91 | \r | |
| 92 | ** Re: (Score:2)\r | |
| 93 | (by CaptainDork ( 3678879 ))\r | |
| 94 | \r | |
| 95 | \r | |
| 96 | In reaction to your sig:\r | |
| 97 | I recently re-read "Nineteen Eighty-Four," because\r | |
| 98 | my first reading was so long ago.\r | |
| 99 | Good read, but what a goddam depressing book!\r | |
| 100 | \r | |
| 101 | \r | |
| 102 | \r | |
| 103 | \r | |
| 104 | ** Re: (Score:2)\r | |
| 105 | (by magzteel ( 5013587 ))\r | |
| 106 | \r | |
| 107 | \r | |
| 108 | > Excessive hype is always followed by a trough of\r | |
| 109 | > disillusionment. But as the TOD fades, plenty of mature,\r | |
| 110 | > practical applications are likely to emerge. The\r | |
| 111 | > technological naysayers are usually even more wrong than\r | |
| 112 | > the hypesters.\r | |
| 113 | > [1]Hype cycle [wikipedia.org]\r | |
| 114 | Back in the early PC days, when you had to hook up a\r | |
| 115 | cassette player to load your application, and then another\r | |
| 116 | one to load your data, we used to tell people they could\r | |
| 117 | store recipes on their TRS-80 personal computer. This was\r | |
| 118 | not much of a productivity enhancer. I'm sure based on\r | |
| 119 | this experience some people would have thought PC's were\r | |
| 120 | useless and had no future.\r | |
| 121 | And then floppy disks and spreadsheets were invented.\r | |
| 122 | \r | |
| 123 | \r | |
| 124 | \r | |
| 125 | \r | |
| 126 | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hype_cycle\r | |
| 127 | \r | |
| 128 | \r | |
| 129 | ** Re: (Score:2)\r | |
| 130 | (by jythie ( 914043 ))\r | |
| 131 | \r | |
| 132 | \r | |
| 133 | It is really difficult to say if the naysayers or\r | |
| 134 | hypesters are more often right or wrong. One problem with\r | |
| 135 | looking back at negative guesses is we only really\r | |
| 136 | remember the ones that turned out to be wrong since the\r | |
| 137 | evidence is in modern use today, while all the naysayers\r | |
| 138 | that we right, well, the things they were right about\r | |
| 139 | faded into obscurity.\r | |
| 140 | \r | |
| 141 | ** Re: (Score:2)\r | |
| 142 | (by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ))\r | |
| 143 | \r | |
| 144 | \r | |
| 145 | You only count as a "true" naysayer if you are negative\r | |
| 146 | about an overhyped trend with groupies and fanbois, not\r | |
| 147 | about an obviously stupid idea.\r | |
| 148 | The naysayers were right about the Segway, but that was\r | |
| 149 | an easy target, since it reached peak hype before it\r | |
| 150 | had even been shown to the public.\r | |
| 151 | Other tech failures were Iridium, Zune, Pebble,\r | |
| 152 | Juicero. But none of these were hyped as world changing\r | |
| 153 | technology.\r | |
| 154 | \r | |
| 155 | \r | |
| 156 | \r | |
| 157 | ** \r | |
| 158 | \r | |
| 159 | ** Re: (Score:2)\r | |
| 160 | (by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ))\r | |
| 161 | \r | |
| 162 | \r | |
| 163 | > In the long term only 1/20 companies really make it.\r | |
| 164 | Success of a technology is rarely correlated with the\r | |
| 165 | success of particular companies. Silicon Valley is\r | |
| 166 | littered with plaques marking the graves of\r | |
| 167 | semiconductor pioneering companies. Few of them\r | |
| 168 | survived. Yet semiconductors have been the greatest\r | |
| 169 | technological success since fire was tamed.\r | |
| 170 | For another example, look at aviation. It took 66 years\r | |
| 171 | to go from Kitty Hawk to the Sea of Tranquility. Yet\r | |
| 172 | how many airlines made money during those years? Almost\r | |
| 173 | none.\r | |
| 174 | \r | |
| 175 | \r | |
| 176 | \r | |
| 177 | \r | |
| 178 | ** Re: (Score:1)\r | |
| 179 | (by atherophage ( 2481624 ))\r | |
| 180 | \r | |
| 181 | \r | |
| 182 | Prognosticators have been wrong before. While it is easy to\r | |
| 183 | poke fun at the unusual who knows, perhaps in a few years\r | |
| 184 | dental floss will come with AI. The thought of not having AI\r | |
| 185 | floss will be unthinkable.\r | |
| 186 | \r | |
| 187 | \r | |
| 188 | ** Re: (Score:3, Interesting)\r | |
| 189 | (by Anonymous Coward)\r | |
| 190 | \r | |
| 191 | \r | |
| 192 | As much as I am a nerd, I blame "nerds" for this. There is\r | |
| 193 | this whole new fad of being a "techie", watching Big Bang\r | |
| 194 | Theory, owning a Tesla, and generally being absolutely\r | |
| 195 | ignorant about real science, technology and math while\r | |
| 196 | "pretending" to be a nerd. I used "pretending" but there may\r | |
| 197 | be some legitimate attempt but it is hard to tell if someone\r | |
| 198 | is a fake nerd or just a stupid nerd. I think this trend\r | |
| 199 | partly follows from women trying to follow the (tech) money\r | |
| 200 | and then men trying to follow the women.\r | |
| 201 | This\r | |
| 202 | \r | |
| 203 | ** Re: (Score:2)\r | |
| 204 | (by AbRASiON ( 589899 ) *)\r | |
| 205 | \r | |
| 206 | \r | |
| 207 | I don't know that there's a lot of these people but they\r | |
| 208 | do exist, for certain yes. The 'watching big bang theory'\r | |
| 209 | is the kicker, once someone admits watching that, you know\r | |
| 210 | they're very unlikely to be a 'proper nerd' for lack of a\r | |
| 211 | better term.\r | |
| 212 | Considering they only have partial skills in technology\r | |
| 213 | then, we can likely guess, if they work in the industry,\r | |
| 214 | they're probably higher on the ladder than us and paid\r | |
| 215 | more though :/ like most management / consultant types.\r | |
| 216 | \r | |
| 217 | \r | |
| 218 | \r | |
| 219 | ** Re: (Score:3)\r | |
| 220 | (by JMJimmy ( 2036122 ))\r | |
| 221 | \r | |
| 222 | \r | |
| 223 | The thing no one can consider is time.\r | |
| 224 | "AI" being jammed into things now is probably lame, awkward,\r | |
| 225 | and of very limited use. Much like computers were back in the\r | |
| 226 | punch card days with devices that. Less than 100 years later\r | |
| 227 | we've got computers in our pocket. We are in the early days\r | |
| 228 | of AI - we'll look back on it decades from now as we do with\r | |
| 229 | things like: [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?...\r | |
| 230 | [youtube.com]\r | |
| 231 | This article is just another example of someone who can't see\r | |
| 232 | past their nose to the road ahead and the million differen\r | |
| 233 | \r | |
| 234 | \r | |
| 235 | \r | |
| 236 | \r | |
| 237 | [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp7MHZY2ADI\r | |
| 238 | \r | |
| 239 | \r | |
| 240 | ** Re: (Score:2)\r | |
| 241 | (by AHuxley ( 892839 ))\r | |
| 242 | \r | |
| 243 | \r | |
| 244 | Good for a few workers over the decade of hype.\r | |
| 245 | \r | |
| 246 | \r | |
| 247 | ** Re: (Score:2)\r | |
| 248 | (by m00sh ( 2538182 ))\r | |
| 249 | \r | |
| 250 | \r | |
| 251 | > 3D printer in every home will fundamentally change human\r | |
| 252 | > society\r | |
| 253 | > IoT internet connected belt buckles and toothbrushes will\r | |
| 254 | > take over the world\r | |
| 255 | > AI will revolutionize consumer electronics\r | |
| 256 | > Net PC from Sun will dominate the computer industry (this one\r | |
| 257 | > is really old)\r | |
| 258 | I don't know about home but it plays a big part in\r | |
| 259 | manufacturing. There are very specialized and successful\r | |
| 260 | medical companies that use 3d printing.\r | |
| 261 | Don't know about belt buckles but fitbit, apple watch, garmin\r | |
| 262 | has been worth billions of dollars and fundamentally changed\r | |
| 263 | the way a lot of people do things.\r | |
| 264 | I don't know about NetPC but what about the cloud? The hype\r | |
| 265 | that we would all put all our stuff in the cloud blah blah\r | |
| 266 | actually materialized. There are many companies who own no\r | |
| 267 | hardware except the dev la\r | |
| 268 | \r | |
| 269 | \r | |
| 270 | ** Re: (Score:2)\r | |
| 271 | (by lokedhs ( 672255 ))\r | |
| 272 | \r | |
| 273 | \r | |
| 274 | Net PC was not from Sun. I should I know, I worked for them\r | |
| 275 | during that era. What they had was JavaStation, which was a\r | |
| 276 | neat idea but ahead of its time. That concept is now realised\r | |
| 277 | by the Chromebook. Net PC was a Compaq thing, if I recall\r | |
| 278 | correctly. However, Wikipedia tells me it was Oracle, so\r | |
| 279 | perhaps the Compaq device was called something else.\r | |
| 280 | \r | |
| 281 | \r | |
| 282 | ** \r | |
| 283 | \r | |
| 284 | ** Re: (Score:2)\r | |
| 285 | (by bobbied ( 2522392 ))\r | |
| 286 | \r | |
| 287 | \r | |
| 288 | > Example: Apple will go under...any day now....since 1984\r | |
| 289 | But they've been totally correct in not predicting the "Year\r | |
| 290 | of the Linux Desktop" has come.\r | |
| 291 | You win a few and lose a few.\r | |
| 292 | \r | |
| 293 | ** Re: (Score:2)\r | |
| 294 | (by jythie ( 914043 ))\r | |
| 295 | \r | |
| 296 | \r | |
| 297 | *nod* to expand on this.... true, Apple never did go\r | |
| 298 | under. But look how many computer companies started up\r | |
| 299 | around the same time and did. It is fun to look at the\r | |
| 300 | successes and compare them to the naysayers who were\r | |
| 301 | wrong, but the ones who were right, well, their\r | |
| 302 | predictions did not leave much to talk about today.\r | |
| 303 | \r | |
| 304 | \r | |
| 305 | \r | |
| 306 | ** \r | |
| 307 | \r | |
| 308 | ** Re:Now With AI! (Score:5, Informative)\r | |
| 309 | (by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ))\r | |
| 310 | \r | |
| 311 | \r | |
| 312 | > Gee, I could have sworn we already HAD the AI craze back in\r | |
| 313 | > the late 80s. Or was it early 90s?\r | |
| 314 | It was the 1980s. It had faded long before 1990.\r | |
| 315 | But there was an earlier AI craze in the 1960s, based on\r | |
| 316 | perceptrons. That faded by 1970.\r | |
| 317 | The 1980 AI hype cycle was driven by "expert systems" and\r | |
| 318 | "Lisp machines".\r | |
| 319 | The latest cycle started in 2006 with the publication of the\r | |
| 320 | [1]seminal paper on deep learning [sciencemag.org], and has\r | |
| 321 | so far lasted far longer than any previous AI hype cycle.\r | |
| 322 | \r | |
| 323 | \r | |
| 324 | \r | |
| 325 | \r | |
| 326 | [1] http://science.sciencemag.org/content/313/5786/504\r | |
| 327 | \r | |
| 328 | ** Re: (Score:2)\r | |
| 329 | (by CaptainDork ( 3678879 ))\r | |
| 330 | \r | |
| 331 | \r | |
| 332 | I go way back, too.\r | |
| 333 | AI had an unambiguous definition that eroded under stress\r | |
| 334 | because the industry came to the realization that the "I"\r | |
| 335 | part (intelligence) used the human mind as the high bar.\r | |
| 336 | The second epiphany came when no one could fabricate an AI\r | |
| 337 | that would simply refuse to cooperate if Facebook was\r | |
| 338 | unreachable.\r | |
| 339 | \r | |
| 340 | \r | |
| 341 | ** Re: (Score:2)\r | |
| 342 | (by Pseudonym ( 62607 ))\r | |
| 343 | \r | |
| 344 | \r | |
| 345 | In the 90s it was all "knowledge-based systems" and in the\r | |
| 346 | noughties it was all "intelligent agents".\r | |
| 347 | \r | |
| 348 | ** Re: (Score:2)\r | |
| 349 | (by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ))\r | |
| 350 | \r | |
| 351 | \r | |
| 352 | > In the 90s it was all "knowledge-based systems" and in\r | |
| 353 | > the noughties it was all "intelligent agents".\r | |
| 354 | Yes, but those generated far less hype than what\r | |
| 355 | happened in the 60s, 80s, and teenies.\r | |
| 356 | The big things in the 90s and noughties were the web\r | |
| 357 | and e-commerce.\r | |
| 358 | \r | |
| 359 | \r | |
| 360 | \r | |
| 361 | ** Re: (Score:2)\r | |
| 362 | (by CWCheese ( 729272 ))\r | |
| 363 | \r | |
| 364 | \r | |
| 365 | Thanks for the Lisp reference! I fondly remember learning\r | |
| 366 | Lisp in an AI class during college in the 80s. Actually\r | |
| 367 | enjoyed programming Lisp because it could be so terse and\r | |
| 368 | do so much very rapidly. However, we really had no good\r | |
| 369 | applications to use for it, other than having an\r | |
| 370 | application learn the best way to win a chess game. I\r | |
| 371 | chose not to pursue AI as a career and haven't suffered\r | |
| 372 | for that.\r | |
| 373 | \r | |
| 374 | ** Re: (Score:2)\r | |
| 375 | (by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ))\r | |
| 376 | \r | |
| 377 | \r | |
| 378 | > I chose not to pursue AI as a career and haven't\r | |
| 379 | > suffered for that.\r | |
| 380 | Learning Lisp would not have helped you. Modern AI uses\r | |
| 381 | mostly Python based libraries such as Tensorflow and\r | |
| 382 | PyTorch. C++ is used for performance critical stuff.\r | |
| 383 | Nobody uses Lisp for AI anymore. It was a dead end.\r | |
| 384 | \r | |
| 385 | \r | |
| 386 | \r | |
| 387 | ** Fifth Generation (Score:2)\r | |
| 388 | (by mcswell ( 1102107 ))\r | |
| 389 | \r | |
| 390 | \r | |
| 391 | Fueling the hype in the 1980s AI cycle was the Japanese\r | |
| 392 | Fifth Generation project, for which a stated goal was to\r | |
| 393 | leapfrog the West's computer technology and skills. People\r | |
| 394 | like Edward Feigenbaum and Pamela McCorduck used the FUD\r | |
| 395 | generated around this project to call for increased\r | |
| 396 | funding, claiming in their 1983 book 'The Fifth\r | |
| 397 | Generation: Japan’s Computer Challenge to the World' that\r | |
| 398 | "America needs a national plan of action, a kind of space\r | |
| 399 | shuttle program for the knowledge systems of the future."\r | |
| 400 | A\r | |
| 401 | \r | |
| 402 | \r | |
| 403 | \r | |
| 404 | ** Re: (Score:2)\r | |
| 405 | (by Torodung ( 31985 ))\r | |
| 406 | \r | |
| 407 | \r | |
| 408 | > Cats on the blockchain, anyone?\r | |
| 409 | Well, at the very least, every zig should be on the\r | |
| 410 | blockchain. Don't know about Cats.\r | |
| 411 | \r | |
| 412 | \r | |
| 413 | ** You can stop reading at "Orlowski" (Score:4, Interesting)\r | |
| 414 | (by serviscope_minor ( 664417 ))\r | |
| 415 | \r | |
| 416 | \r | |
| 417 | Andrew Orlowski of The Register is basically a professional\r | |
| 418 | dickhead. His main goal seems to be to be as obnoxious and\r | |
| 419 | ignorant as possible presumably with the goal of trolling the\r | |
| 420 | readership. He's pretty much the reason I stopped reading the\r | |
| 421 | Register because of the constant streem of utter bullshit from\r | |
| 422 | that guy.\r | |
| 423 | \r | |
| 424 | ** Re:You can stop reading at "Orlowski" (Score:4, Interesting)\r | |
| 425 | (by starless ( 60879 ))\r | |
| 426 | \r | |
| 427 | \r | |
| 428 | And also appears to be climate change denier....\r | |
| 429 | (at least for some of his Register articles.)\r | |
| 430 | \r | |
| 431 | \r | |
| 432 | ** Re: (Score:2)\r | |
| 433 | (by TJ_Phazerhacki ( 520002 ))\r | |
| 434 | \r | |
| 435 | \r | |
| 436 | So, Walt Mossberg for a new generation? Shutup!\r | |
| 437 | \r | |
| 438 | \r | |
| 439 | ** AI in a Toaster! (Score:2)\r | |
| 440 | (by Zorro ( 15797 ))\r | |
| 441 | \r | |
| 442 | \r | |
| 443 | Red Dwarf has already shown why this is a BAD Idea.\r | |
| 444 | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhnN4eUiei4\r | |
| 445 | \r | |
| 446 | ** Re: (Score:2)\r | |
| 447 | (by Revek ( 133289 ))\r | |
| 448 | \r | |
| 449 | \r | |
| 450 | Please learn basic html K, thanks.\r | |
| 451 | \r | |
| 452 | ** Re: (Score:2)\r | |
| 453 | (by AbRASiON ( 589899 ) *)\r | |
| 454 | \r | |
| 455 | \r | |
| 456 | How about slashdot stop being entirely backwards with that\r | |
| 457 | shit instead?\r | |
| 458 | \r | |
| 459 | \r | |
| 460 | \r | |
| 461 | ** \r | |
| 462 | \r | |
| 463 | ** Re: (Score:2)\r | |
| 464 | (by Applehu Akbar ( 2968043 ))\r | |
| 465 | \r | |
| 466 | \r | |
| 467 | But I do like being able to verbally ask my phone to navigate\r | |
| 468 | to a contact, without having to squint at a screen in the\r | |
| 469 | sun, and get turn by turn directions. Digital assistants have\r | |
| 470 | slipped into a place in my life where they do a few useful\r | |
| 471 | things. As time goes on, this set will grow larger.\r | |
| 472 | But I know: "If it works, it's not AI!" "If it's AI, it won't\r | |
| 473 | work!"\r | |
| 474 | \r | |
| 475 | \r | |
| 476 | ** Aibo (Score:1)\r | |
| 477 | (by Anonymous Coward)\r | |
| 478 | \r | |
| 479 | \r | |
| 480 | If Sony's Aibo lives up to the demos I have seen - that would be\r | |
| 481 | one big application. AI as a pet.\r | |
| 482 | I also use AI (maybe more ML) all the time with photo sorting,\r | |
| 483 | image recognition, etc. It is already in the home.\r | |
| 484 | \r | |
| 485 | ** OP must be joking... (Score:4, Insightful)\r | |
| 486 | (by JoeDuncan ( 874519 ))\r | |
| 487 | \r | |
| 488 | \r | |
| 489 | ... because consumer AI is *ALREADY* ubiquitous and all around\r | |
| 490 | us.\r | |
| 491 | From the face detection in your phone, to the fuzzy logic\r | |
| 492 | controllers in washing machines, to the ant colony algorithms\r | |
| 493 | being used to route network traffic, to finding directions with\r | |
| 494 | google maps, to Netflix and Amazon's recommendation algorithms,\r | |
| 495 | to OCR for cheques and mail, to NEST thermostats, to robot\r | |
| 496 | vacuum cleaners and lawn mowers, to expert systems in medical\r | |
| 497 | diagnosis... (I could keep going)\r | |
| 498 | AI in consumer products is literally *already* ALL around us.\r | |
| 499 | Saying that consumer AI "has no future" is like looking around\r | |
| 500 | at the world today and saying "personal cars have no future" -\r | |
| 501 | it's completely idiotic because to anyone with half an ounce of\r | |
| 502 | perception that future is ALREADY here.\r | |
| 503 | It's like looking at a forest and claiming there are no trees\r | |
| 504 | \r | |
| 505 | ** Re: (Score:2)\r | |
| 506 | (by grahamsz ( 150076 ))\r | |
| 507 | \r | |
| 508 | \r | |
| 509 | Yeah it seems like it is a natural fit in optimizing the\r | |
| 510 | things we do.\r | |
| 511 | Even though I don't routinely use my phone as an alarm clock,\r | |
| 512 | it still knows when i'm likely to get up and if I plug it in\r | |
| 513 | at bed time it'll do a good job of figuring out when i'm\r | |
| 514 | likely to get up and adjusts its charging rate to be done\r | |
| 515 | about an hour before then. Yet if I plug it in a 3pm then\r | |
| 516 | it'll assume i want as much charge as possible and charge as\r | |
| 517 | fast as it can. It's not rocket science, but it's useful.\r | |
| 518 | Do I need a dishwasher with\r | |
| 519 | \r | |
| 520 | ** Re: (Score:2)\r | |
| 521 | (by JoeDuncan ( 874519 ))\r | |
| 522 | \r | |
| 523 | \r | |
| 524 | > Do I need a dishwasher with a screen that I can talk to?\r | |
| 525 | Nope, but I'm willing to bet it has an embedded fuzzy\r | |
| 526 | logic controller in it to control water levels.\r | |
| 527 | \r | |
| 528 | \r | |
| 529 | ** Re: (Score:2)\r | |
| 530 | (by mcswell ( 1102107 ))\r | |
| 531 | \r | |
| 532 | \r | |
| 533 | "Do I need a dishwasher with a screen that I can talk to?"\r | |
| 534 | Printers have a screen. You can't talk to it (at least\r | |
| 535 | you're not supposed to--when aggravated, I've been know to\r | |
| 536 | do so, and not kindly). But try to decipher what's on that\r | |
| 537 | screen. I claim that printers are not any easier to use\r | |
| 538 | than they were in 1984 (which is when I got my first dot\r | |
| 539 | matrix printer). You (ok, I) *still* can't figure out\r | |
| 540 | what's wrong with them, despite the screen.\r | |
| 541 | \r | |
| 542 | \r | |
| 543 | \r | |
| 544 | ** \r | |
| 545 | \r | |
| 546 | ** Re: (Score:2)\r | |
| 547 | (by JoeDuncan ( 874519 ))\r | |
| 548 | \r | |
| 549 | \r | |
| 550 | > None of the tings you mention actually contain any real\r | |
| 551 | > artificial intelligence in the sense of being able to\r | |
| 552 | > making decisions in the face of unknown circumstances and\r | |
| 553 | > data sources.\r | |
| 554 | They do actually.\r | |
| 555 | Roombas have to be able to adapt to unknown obstacles and\r | |
| 556 | uncertain sensory input (could get blocked, partially\r | |
| 557 | occluded etc...).\r | |
| 558 | Embedded fuzzy logic controllers (also used in anti-lock\r | |
| 559 | brakes) have to be able to maintain a steady output signal\r | |
| 560 | given uncertain input (wear and tear on the mechanics,\r | |
| 561 | grit...) that can vary wildly in an unknown manner.\r | |
| 562 | OCR systems need to be able to tell the difference between\r | |
| 563 | a cheque and unknown things, like night club flyers, and\r | |
| 564 | they deal with hand written\r | |
| 565 | \r | |
| 566 | \r | |
| 567 | \r | |
| 568 | ** Re: (Score:1)\r | |
| 569 | (by AHuxley ( 892839 ))\r | |
| 570 | \r | |
| 571 | \r | |
| 572 | Re "face detection" is not AI. Its a really big and fast\r | |
| 573 | database. Filled with faces the police know about and random\r | |
| 574 | people walking past CCTV.\r | |
| 575 | Re "fuzzy logic controllers in washing machines" A set amount\r | |
| 576 | of power, water, weight of laundry is not AI. Just good\r | |
| 577 | programming within set limits.\r | |
| 578 | Re "'finding directions" with maps that are created and set.\r | |
| 579 | Re "recommendation algorithms" that is set by past people\r | |
| 580 | buying things and another person showing the same interests.\r | |
| 581 | More to do with collecting lots\r | |
| 582 | \r | |
| 583 | ** Re: (Score:2)\r | |
| 584 | (by JoeDuncan ( 874519 ))\r | |
| 585 | \r | |
| 586 | \r | |
| 587 | > ..."face detection" is not AI. Its a really big and fast\r | |
| 588 | > database. Filled with faces the police know...\r | |
| 589 | ...and just HOW do the faces "police know" get matched to\r | |
| 590 | this database? Explain without reference to AI.\r | |
| 591 | > ..."fuzzy logic controllers in washing machines" A set\r | |
| 592 | > amount of power, water, weight of laundry is not AI.\r | |
| 593 | No it isn't, but you're a fool if you think your washing\r | |
| 594 | machine is that simple these days. It DOES take fuzzy\r | |
| 595 | logic to adapt to things like wear and tear on the\r | |
| 596 | machine, arbitrarily changing water pressures and\r | |
| 597 | temperatures, etc... and still maintain consistent\r | |
| 598 | performance.\r | |
| 599 | > "'finding directions" with maps that are created and set.\r | |
| 600 | ...and using AI algorithms to find the best path.\r | |
| 601 | Blah blah blah... you get the point. You've deliberately\r | |
| 602 | downplayed the AI aspect\r | |
| 603 | \r | |
| 604 | \r | |
| 605 | \r | |
| 606 | ** \r | |
| 607 | \r | |
| 608 | ** Re: (Score:2)\r | |
| 609 | (by JoeDuncan ( 874519 ))\r | |
| 610 | \r | |
| 611 | \r | |
| 612 | You are clearly uneducated, Troll.\r | |
| 613 | If you actually wish to enlighten yourself, I'd start\r | |
| 614 | here: [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]\r | |
| 615 | \r | |
| 616 | \r | |
| 617 | \r | |
| 618 | \r | |
| 619 | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_intelligence\r | |
| 620 | \r | |
| 621 | \r | |
| 622 | \r | |
| 623 | ** Re: (Score:2)\r | |
| 624 | (by hazem ( 472289 ))\r | |
| 625 | \r | |
| 626 | \r | |
| 627 | > From the face detection in your phone, to the fuzzy logic\r | |
| 628 | > controllers in washing machines, to the ant colony algorithms\r | |
| 629 | > being used to route network traffic, to finding directions\r | |
| 630 | > with google maps, to Netflix and Amazon's recommendation\r | |
| 631 | > algorithms, to OCR for cheques and mail, to NEST thermostats,\r | |
| 632 | > to robot vacuum cleaners and lawn mowers, to expert systems\r | |
| 633 | > in medical diagnosis... (I could keep going)\r | |
| 634 | When I took an AI class a few years ago, one of my favorite\r | |
| 635 | things the professor said was, "What we called 'AI' yesterday\r | |
| 636 | is simply the algorithm for how we do a thing today."\r | |
| 637 | \r | |
| 638 | \r | |
| 639 | ** AI's Strength (Score:2)\r | |
| 640 | (by thePsychologist ( 1062886 ))\r | |
| 641 | \r | |
| 642 | \r | |
| 643 | AI (i.e. machine learning/neural networks) is really good at\r | |
| 644 | optimizing stuff, so its natural strength shows when you have\r | |
| 645 | hundreds of thousands of entities in a system. Examples are the\r | |
| 646 | electricity grid, playing Go, and a department store's\r | |
| 647 | inventory.\r | |
| 648 | In our individual lives, AI seems more like another drop in the\r | |
| 649 | bucket of too much technology, and I think one day we'll realize\r | |
| 650 | that less is more when it comes to the stuff in our homes.\r | |
| 651 | \r | |
| 652 | ** Getting concerned myself (Score:1)\r | |
| 653 | (by SuperKendall ( 25149 ))\r | |
| 654 | \r | |
| 655 | \r | |
| 656 | I was looking at new fridges recently as a friend was asking for\r | |
| 657 | a recommendation, and it's alarming how trying to find a fridge\r | |
| 658 | without a screen is getting to be like trying to find a cell\r | |
| 659 | phone without a camera... it really limits your options.\r | |
| 660 | The only way they could make fridges any worse is the if screens\r | |
| 661 | also played CNN constantly when not in use, like in an\r | |
| 662 | airport... you can absolutely see subsidized ad-fridges coming\r | |
| 663 | down the pipeline.\r | |
| 664 | \r | |
| 665 | ** Re: (Score:2)\r | |
| 666 | (by lgw ( 121541 ))\r | |
| 667 | \r | |
| 668 | \r | |
| 669 | Seems like only the highest and lowest-end fridges lack\r | |
| 670 | screens these days (as well as ice/water in the door,\r | |
| 671 | something else I could do without).\r | |
| 672 | \r | |
| 673 | ** Re: (Score:2)\r | |
| 674 | (by mcswell ( 1102107 ))\r | |
| 675 | \r | |
| 676 | \r | |
| 677 | Come to my house. The refr *has* an ice/water dispenser in\r | |
| 678 | the door, but it hasn't worked for over a year. I think\r | |
| 679 | the tube to the water dispenser is frozen, and if it gets\r | |
| 680 | thawed, it just freezes up again. Same with the water\r | |
| 681 | dispenser on the refr nearest my office at work.\r | |
| 682 | As for the ice dispenser on our refr, we never used it, so\r | |
| 683 | I took it out and got lots more room in the freezer. If we\r | |
| 684 | want ice cubes, we make them in trays, like the 1960s.\r | |
| 685 | \r | |
| 686 | \r | |
| 687 | \r | |
| 688 | ** \r | |
| 689 | \r | |
| 690 | ** Re: (Score:3)\r | |
| 691 | (by sheramil ( 921315 ))\r | |
| 692 | \r | |
| 693 | \r | |
| 694 | > What the hell does a fridge need a screen for?\r | |
| 695 | You can connect it to a webcam inside the fridge and see\r | |
| 696 | if the light goes out when you close the door.\r | |
| 697 | \r | |
| 698 | \r | |
| 699 | \r | |
| 700 | ** I remember a time... (Score:2)\r | |
| 701 | (by Dallas May ( 4891515 ))\r | |
| 702 | \r | |
| 703 | \r | |
| 704 | My uncle was a computer scientist for a National Lab. He retired\r | |
| 705 | 15 or so years ago. I remember just after my grandmother first\r | |
| 706 | got internet, he didn't have it at his home yet because he\r | |
| 707 | didn't believe it was safe -this was probably 1997 or 98, and I\r | |
| 708 | remember him talking to me about how disappointed he was with\r | |
| 709 | the internet. "It was supposed to be this great thing. It's\r | |
| 710 | useless. It'll never amount to anything."\r | |
| 711 | Yeah, he was wrong.\r | |
| 712 | \r | |
| 713 | ** Re: (Score:2)\r | |
| 714 | (by bobbied ( 2522392 ))\r | |
| 715 | \r | |
| 716 | \r | |
| 717 | > My uncle was a computer scientist for a National Lab. He\r | |
| 718 | > retired 15 or so years ago. I remember just after my\r | |
| 719 | > grandmother first got internet, he didn't have it at his home\r | |
| 720 | > yet because he didn't believe it was safe -this was probably\r | |
| 721 | > 1997 or 98, and I remember him talking to me about how\r | |
| 722 | > disappointed he was with the internet. "It was supposed to be\r | |
| 723 | > this great thing. It's useless. It'll never amount to\r | |
| 724 | > anything."\r | |
| 725 | > Yeah, he was wrong.\r | |
| 726 | Was he? Was he really?\r | |
| 727 | How much of the internet is truly useful and how much is just\r | |
| 728 | trash? Judging by my inbox, the number of E-mail in my inbox\r | |
| 729 | the ratio 1s more than 10 to 1 SPAM to worth while messages\r | |
| 730 | (And that's AFTER the SPAM filters.)\r | |
| 731 | I find that this ratio pretty much governs the whole of the\r | |
| 732 | internet.. Where 1/10th of it is actually something of use\r | |
| 733 | and the rest is just useless junk.\r | |
| 734 | So he's not that wrong.\r | |
| 735 | \r | |
| 736 | \r | |
| 737 | ** \r | |
| 738 | \r | |
| 739 | ** Re: (Score:2)\r | |
| 740 | (by mcswell ( 1102107 ))\r | |
| 741 | \r | |
| 742 | \r | |
| 743 | And here you (and I) are.\r | |
| 744 | \r | |
| 745 | \r | |
| 746 | \r | |
| 747 | ** I heard... (Score:1)\r | |
| 748 | (by Hentai007 ( 188457 ))\r | |
| 749 | \r | |
| 750 | \r | |
| 751 | AI is turning frogs gay.\r | |
| 752 | \r | |
| 753 | ** Re: (Score:2)\r | |
| 754 | (by AbRASiON ( 589899 ) *)\r | |
| 755 | \r | |
| 756 | \r | |
| 757 | That's actually not true, the frogs are only gay for pay.\r | |
| 758 | \r | |
| 759 | \r | |
| 760 | ** Nobody buys something because of AI (Score:3)\r | |
| 761 | (by Laxator2 ( 973549 ))\r | |
| 762 | \r | |
| 763 | \r | |
| 764 | I did not see any example where someone says: "I did not buy\r | |
| 765 | that product because it lacked AI".\r | |
| 766 | I did not hear from anyone that they need AI so they are going\r | |
| 767 | out of their way to buy it. In its current form AI is good for\r | |
| 768 | pattern recognition in some cases, for example, face\r | |
| 769 | identification in photos.\r | |
| 770 | The only customers are corporations with massive collections of\r | |
| 771 | personal data to analyze, but not individual consumers.\r | |
| 772 | I believe AI has been over-hyped and pushed in areas where it is\r | |
| 773 | not usable in its current form (like self-driving cars) and we\r | |
| 774 | start to see the backlash.\r | |
| 775 | I've already seen stories saying that the medical diagnoses made\r | |
| 776 | by IBM's Watson are just plain wrong. More examples will follow.\r | |
| 777 | \r | |
| 778 | ** Re: (Score:2)\r | |
| 779 | (by m00sh ( 2538182 ))\r | |
| 780 | \r | |
| 781 | \r | |
| 782 | > I did not see any example where someone says: "I did not buy\r | |
| 783 | > that product because it lacked AI".\r | |
| 784 | > I did not hear from anyone that they need AI so they are\r | |
| 785 | > going out of their way to buy it. In its current form AI is\r | |
| 786 | > good for pattern recognition in some cases, for example, face\r | |
| 787 | > identification in photos. The only customers are corporations\r | |
| 788 | > with massive collections of personal data to analyze, but not\r | |
| 789 | > individual consumers. I believe AI has been over-hyped and\r | |
| 790 | > pushed in areas where it is not usable in its current form\r | |
| 791 | > (like self-driving cars) and we start to see the backlash.\r | |
| 792 | > I've already seen stories saying that the medical diagnoses\r | |
| 793 | > made by IBM's Watson are just plain wrong. More examples will\r | |
| 794 | > follow.\r | |
| 795 | What about Google home and Alexa?\r | |
| 796 | How do you recognize pedestrians in self-driving cars without\r | |
| 797 | AI?\r | |
| 798 | IBM Watson was wrong quite a bit but it won jeopardy.\r | |
| 799 | \r | |
| 800 | \r | |
| 801 | ** First they ignore you, ... (Score:1)\r | |
| 802 | (by Maxo-Texas ( 864189 ))\r | |
| 803 | \r | |
| 804 | \r | |
| 805 | First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight\r | |
| 806 | you, then you win.\r | |
| 807 | Mahatma Gandhi\r | |
| 808 | This field is moving so fast compared to the 90s.\r | |
| 809 | \r | |
| 810 | ** It's a dead end because it's not very good anyway (Score:2)\r | |
| 811 | (by Rick Schumann ( 4662797 ))\r | |
| 812 | \r | |
| 813 | \r | |
| 814 | So-called 'AI' is over-hyped and under-performing.\r | |
| 815 | \r | |
| 816 | ** Another AI winter? (Score:2)\r | |
| 817 | (by OneHundredAndTen ( 1523865 ))\r | |
| 818 | \r | |
| 819 | \r | |
| 820 | The AI bubble seems to be starting to deflate. It may not pop,\r | |
| 821 | but it will likely carry on shrinking. Most people already know\r | |
| 822 | that Alex and co. are little more than gimmicks, good for party\r | |
| 823 | games, grins and giggles, and little more. The AI community\r | |
| 824 | seems to be making the same mistakes they made in the late 60s\r | |
| 825 | and 70s. The second AI winter is nigh.\r | |
| 826 | \r | |
| 827 | ** how do you see non-existent things ? (Score:2)\r | |
| 828 | (by bingoUV ( 1066850 ))\r | |
| 829 | \r | |
| 830 | \r | |
| 831 | If Consumer AI doesn't have a future, how can that non-existent\r | |
| 832 | future be seen ?\r | |
| 833 | In an alternative interpretation, the author has seen the future\r | |
| 834 | of Consumer AI and so of course it exists. But the future of the\r | |
| 835 | future of Consumer AI doesn't exist. I.e. Future of Consumer AI\r | |
| 836 | doesn't have one - where "one" stands for future.\r | |
| 837 | Any other interpretations ?\r | |
| 838 | \r | |
| 839 | ** It's not "Consumer AI" (Score:1)\r | |
| 840 | (by themusicgod1 ( 241799 ))\r | |
| 841 | \r | |
| 842 | \r | |
| 843 | Since the consumer is not control of it.\r | |
| 844 | \r | |
| 845 | It's Anti-Consumer AI if anything\r | |
| 846 | \r | |
| 847 | \r |