1 'I'VE SEEN THE FUTURE OF CONSUMER AI, AND IT DOESN'T HAVE ONE'
4 Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (msmash)
5 from the there-is-no-spoon dept.
7 o News link: https://tech.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/205221/ive-seen-the-future-of-consumer-ai-and-it-doesnt-have-one
8 o Source link: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/09/05/consumer_ai_ifa_2018_roundup/
11 Andrew Orlowski of The Register recounts all the gadgets
12 supercharged with AI that he came across at IFA tradeshow last
13 week -- and wonders what value AI brought to the table. He
14 writes: I didn't see a blockchain toothbrush at IFA in Berlin
15 last week, but I'm sure there was one lurking about somewhere.
16 With 30 vast halls to cover, I didn't look too hard for it.
17 But I did see many things almost as tragic that no one could
18 miss -- AI being squeezed into almost every conceivable bit of
19 consumer electronics. But none were convincing. If ever there
20 was a solution looking for a problem, it's ramming AI into
21 gadgets to show of a company's machine learning prowess. For
22 the consumer it adds unreliability, cost and complexity, and
23 the annoyance of being prompted. [...] Back to LG, which takes
24 2018's prize for sticking AI into a superfluous gadget. The
25 centrepiece of its AI efforts this year is a robot, ClOi. Put
26 Google Assistant or Alexa on wheels, and you have ClOi. I
27 asked the booth person what exactly ClOi could do to be told
28 "it can take notes for your shopping list." Why wasn't this
29 miracle of the Fourth Industrial Revolution let loose on the
30 LG floor? I wondered -- a question answered by this account of
31 ClOi's debut at CES in January. Clearly things haven't
32 improved much -- this robot buddy was kept indoors.
35 ** Stupid industry fads (Score:5, Funny)
36 (by Spy Handler ( 822350 ))
39 3D printer in every home will fundamentally change human society
40 IoT internet connected belt buckles and toothbrushes will take
42 AI will revolutionize consumer electronics
43 Net PC from Sun will dominate the computer industry (this one is
46 ** Re:Stupid industry fads (Score:5, Insightful)
47 (by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ))
50 Excessive hype is always followed by a trough of
51 disillusionment. But as the TOD fades, plenty of mature,
52 practical applications are likely to emerge. The
53 technological naysayers are usually even more wrong than the
55 [1]Hype cycle [wikipedia.org]
60 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hype_cycle
63 (by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ))
66 > Excessive hype is always followed by a trough of
68 Pro Tip: Get out in front and mention this *before* taking
69 your date home. Better for her to hear it from you than
70 her working it out on her own ... :-)
73 ** Re:Stupid industry fads (Score:4, Insightful)
74 (by CaptainDork ( 3678879 ))
77 If smart phones and tablets are any indicator ...
78 AI, too, is an evolutionary dead end.
79 It's a buzz word with a vacuous definition.
82 (by Q-Hack! ( 37846 ))
85 Not a lot different than back in the 1950's when the
86 trend was to create all manor of odd gadgets to make
87 life easier. Those deemed useful are still around...
88 The rest can be found in junk markets around the world.
89 But hey, the Cracker-barrel's of the future will still
90 need stuff to decorate their walls with.
93 (by CaptainDork ( 3678879 ))
96 In reaction to your sig:
97 I recently re-read "Nineteen Eighty-Four," because
98 my first reading was so long ago.
99 Good read, but what a goddam depressing book!
105 (by magzteel ( 5013587 ))
108 > Excessive hype is always followed by a trough of
109 > disillusionment. But as the TOD fades, plenty of mature,
110 > practical applications are likely to emerge. The
111 > technological naysayers are usually even more wrong than
113 > [1]Hype cycle [wikipedia.org]
114 Back in the early PC days, when you had to hook up a
115 cassette player to load your application, and then another
116 one to load your data, we used to tell people they could
117 store recipes on their TRS-80 personal computer. This was
118 not much of a productivity enhancer. I'm sure based on
119 this experience some people would have thought PC's were
120 useless and had no future.
121 And then floppy disks and spreadsheets were invented.
126 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hype_cycle
130 (by jythie ( 914043 ))
133 It is really difficult to say if the naysayers or
134 hypesters are more often right or wrong. One problem with
135 looking back at negative guesses is we only really
136 remember the ones that turned out to be wrong since the
137 evidence is in modern use today, while all the naysayers
138 that we right, well, the things they were right about
139 faded into obscurity.
142 (by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ))
145 You only count as a "true" naysayer if you are negative
146 about an overhyped trend with groupies and fanbois, not
147 about an obviously stupid idea.
148 The naysayers were right about the Segway, but that was
149 an easy target, since it reached peak hype before it
150 had even been shown to the public.
151 Other tech failures were Iridium, Zune, Pebble,
152 Juicero. But none of these were hyped as world changing
160 (by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ))
163 > In the long term only 1/20 companies really make it.
164 Success of a technology is rarely correlated with the
165 success of particular companies. Silicon Valley is
166 littered with plaques marking the graves of
167 semiconductor pioneering companies. Few of them
168 survived. Yet semiconductors have been the greatest
169 technological success since fire was tamed.
170 For another example, look at aviation. It took 66 years
171 to go from Kitty Hawk to the Sea of Tranquility. Yet
172 how many airlines made money during those years? Almost
179 (by atherophage ( 2481624 ))
182 Prognosticators have been wrong before. While it is easy to
183 poke fun at the unusual who knows, perhaps in a few years
184 dental floss will come with AI. The thought of not having AI
185 floss will be unthinkable.
188 ** Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
189 (by Anonymous Coward)
192 As much as I am a nerd, I blame "nerds" for this. There is
193 this whole new fad of being a "techie", watching Big Bang
194 Theory, owning a Tesla, and generally being absolutely
195 ignorant about real science, technology and math while
196 "pretending" to be a nerd. I used "pretending" but there may
197 be some legitimate attempt but it is hard to tell if someone
198 is a fake nerd or just a stupid nerd. I think this trend
199 partly follows from women trying to follow the (tech) money
200 and then men trying to follow the women.
204 (by AbRASiON ( 589899 ) *)
207 I don't know that there's a lot of these people but they
208 do exist, for certain yes. The 'watching big bang theory'
209 is the kicker, once someone admits watching that, you know
210 they're very unlikely to be a 'proper nerd' for lack of a
212 Considering they only have partial skills in technology
213 then, we can likely guess, if they work in the industry,
214 they're probably higher on the ladder than us and paid
215 more though :/ like most management / consultant types.
220 (by JMJimmy ( 2036122 ))
223 The thing no one can consider is time.
224 "AI" being jammed into things now is probably lame, awkward,
225 and of very limited use. Much like computers were back in the
226 punch card days with devices that. Less than 100 years later
227 we've got computers in our pocket. We are in the early days
228 of AI - we'll look back on it decades from now as we do with
229 things like: [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
231 This article is just another example of someone who can't see
232 past their nose to the road ahead and the million differen
237 [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp7MHZY2ADI
241 (by AHuxley ( 892839 ))
244 Good for a few workers over the decade of hype.
248 (by m00sh ( 2538182 ))
251 > 3D printer in every home will fundamentally change human
253 > IoT internet connected belt buckles and toothbrushes will
254 > take over the world
255 > AI will revolutionize consumer electronics
256 > Net PC from Sun will dominate the computer industry (this one
258 I don't know about home but it plays a big part in
259 manufacturing. There are very specialized and successful
260 medical companies that use 3d printing.
261 Don't know about belt buckles but fitbit, apple watch, garmin
262 has been worth billions of dollars and fundamentally changed
263 the way a lot of people do things.
264 I don't know about NetPC but what about the cloud? The hype
265 that we would all put all our stuff in the cloud blah blah
266 actually materialized. There are many companies who own no
267 hardware except the dev la
271 (by lokedhs ( 672255 ))
274 Net PC was not from Sun. I should I know, I worked for them
275 during that era. What they had was JavaStation, which was a
276 neat idea but ahead of its time. That concept is now realised
277 by the Chromebook. Net PC was a Compaq thing, if I recall
278 correctly. However, Wikipedia tells me it was Oracle, so
279 perhaps the Compaq device was called something else.
285 (by bobbied ( 2522392 ))
288 > Example: Apple will go under...any day now....since 1984
289 But they've been totally correct in not predicting the "Year
290 of the Linux Desktop" has come.
291 You win a few and lose a few.
294 (by jythie ( 914043 ))
297 *nod* to expand on this.... true, Apple never did go
298 under. But look how many computer companies started up
299 around the same time and did. It is fun to look at the
300 successes and compare them to the naysayers who were
301 wrong, but the ones who were right, well, their
302 predictions did not leave much to talk about today.
308 ** Re:Now With AI! (Score:5, Informative)
309 (by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ))
312 > Gee, I could have sworn we already HAD the AI craze back in
313 > the late 80s. Or was it early 90s?
314 It was the 1980s. It had faded long before 1990.
315 But there was an earlier AI craze in the 1960s, based on
316 perceptrons. That faded by 1970.
317 The 1980 AI hype cycle was driven by "expert systems" and
319 The latest cycle started in 2006 with the publication of the
320 [1]seminal paper on deep learning [sciencemag.org], and has
321 so far lasted far longer than any previous AI hype cycle.
326 [1] http://science.sciencemag.org/content/313/5786/504
329 (by CaptainDork ( 3678879 ))
333 AI had an unambiguous definition that eroded under stress
334 because the industry came to the realization that the "I"
335 part (intelligence) used the human mind as the high bar.
336 The second epiphany came when no one could fabricate an AI
337 that would simply refuse to cooperate if Facebook was
342 (by Pseudonym ( 62607 ))
345 In the 90s it was all "knowledge-based systems" and in the
346 noughties it was all "intelligent agents".
349 (by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ))
352 > In the 90s it was all "knowledge-based systems" and in
353 > the noughties it was all "intelligent agents".
354 Yes, but those generated far less hype than what
355 happened in the 60s, 80s, and teenies.
356 The big things in the 90s and noughties were the web
362 (by CWCheese ( 729272 ))
365 Thanks for the Lisp reference! I fondly remember learning
366 Lisp in an AI class during college in the 80s. Actually
367 enjoyed programming Lisp because it could be so terse and
368 do so much very rapidly. However, we really had no good
369 applications to use for it, other than having an
370 application learn the best way to win a chess game. I
371 chose not to pursue AI as a career and haven't suffered
375 (by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ))
378 > I chose not to pursue AI as a career and haven't
380 Learning Lisp would not have helped you. Modern AI uses
381 mostly Python based libraries such as Tensorflow and
382 PyTorch. C++ is used for performance critical stuff.
383 Nobody uses Lisp for AI anymore. It was a dead end.
387 ** Fifth Generation (Score:2)
388 (by mcswell ( 1102107 ))
391 Fueling the hype in the 1980s AI cycle was the Japanese
392 Fifth Generation project, for which a stated goal was to
393 leapfrog the West's computer technology and skills. People
394 like Edward Feigenbaum and Pamela McCorduck used the FUD
395 generated around this project to call for increased
396 funding, claiming in their 1983 book 'The Fifth
397 Generation: Japan’s Computer Challenge to the World' that
398 "America needs a national plan of action, a kind of space
399 shuttle program for the knowledge systems of the future."
405 (by Torodung ( 31985 ))
408 > Cats on the blockchain, anyone?
409 Well, at the very least, every zig should be on the
410 blockchain. Don't know about Cats.
413 ** You can stop reading at "Orlowski" (Score:4, Interesting)
414 (by serviscope_minor ( 664417 ))
417 Andrew Orlowski of The Register is basically a professional
418 dickhead. His main goal seems to be to be as obnoxious and
419 ignorant as possible presumably with the goal of trolling the
420 readership. He's pretty much the reason I stopped reading the
421 Register because of the constant streem of utter bullshit from
424 ** Re:You can stop reading at "Orlowski" (Score:4, Interesting)
425 (by starless ( 60879 ))
428 And also appears to be climate change denier....
429 (at least for some of his Register articles.)
433 (by TJ_Phazerhacki ( 520002 ))
436 So, Walt Mossberg for a new generation? Shutup!
439 ** AI in a Toaster! (Score:2)
443 Red Dwarf has already shown why this is a BAD Idea.
444 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhnN4eUiei4
447 (by Revek ( 133289 ))
450 Please learn basic html K, thanks.
453 (by AbRASiON ( 589899 ) *)
456 How about slashdot stop being entirely backwards with that
464 (by Applehu Akbar ( 2968043 ))
467 But I do like being able to verbally ask my phone to navigate
468 to a contact, without having to squint at a screen in the
469 sun, and get turn by turn directions. Digital assistants have
470 slipped into a place in my life where they do a few useful
471 things. As time goes on, this set will grow larger.
472 But I know: "If it works, it's not AI!" "If it's AI, it won't
477 (by Anonymous Coward)
480 If Sony's Aibo lives up to the demos I have seen - that would be
481 one big application. AI as a pet.
482 I also use AI (maybe more ML) all the time with photo sorting,
483 image recognition, etc. It is already in the home.
485 ** OP must be joking... (Score:4, Insightful)
486 (by JoeDuncan ( 874519 ))
489 ... because consumer AI is *ALREADY* ubiquitous and all around
491 From the face detection in your phone, to the fuzzy logic
492 controllers in washing machines, to the ant colony algorithms
493 being used to route network traffic, to finding directions with
494 google maps, to Netflix and Amazon's recommendation algorithms,
495 to OCR for cheques and mail, to NEST thermostats, to robot
496 vacuum cleaners and lawn mowers, to expert systems in medical
497 diagnosis... (I could keep going)
498 AI in consumer products is literally *already* ALL around us.
499 Saying that consumer AI "has no future" is like looking around
500 at the world today and saying "personal cars have no future" -
501 it's completely idiotic because to anyone with half an ounce of
502 perception that future is ALREADY here.
503 It's like looking at a forest and claiming there are no trees
506 (by grahamsz ( 150076 ))
509 Yeah it seems like it is a natural fit in optimizing the
511 Even though I don't routinely use my phone as an alarm clock,
512 it still knows when i'm likely to get up and if I plug it in
513 at bed time it'll do a good job of figuring out when i'm
514 likely to get up and adjusts its charging rate to be done
515 about an hour before then. Yet if I plug it in a 3pm then
516 it'll assume i want as much charge as possible and charge as
517 fast as it can. It's not rocket science, but it's useful.
518 Do I need a dishwasher with
521 (by JoeDuncan ( 874519 ))
524 > Do I need a dishwasher with a screen that I can talk to?
525 Nope, but I'm willing to bet it has an embedded fuzzy
526 logic controller in it to control water levels.
530 (by mcswell ( 1102107 ))
533 "Do I need a dishwasher with a screen that I can talk to?"
534 Printers have a screen. You can't talk to it (at least
535 you're not supposed to--when aggravated, I've been know to
536 do so, and not kindly). But try to decipher what's on that
537 screen. I claim that printers are not any easier to use
538 than they were in 1984 (which is when I got my first dot
539 matrix printer). You (ok, I) *still* can't figure out
540 what's wrong with them, despite the screen.
547 (by JoeDuncan ( 874519 ))
550 > None of the tings you mention actually contain any real
551 > artificial intelligence in the sense of being able to
552 > making decisions in the face of unknown circumstances and
555 Roombas have to be able to adapt to unknown obstacles and
556 uncertain sensory input (could get blocked, partially
558 Embedded fuzzy logic controllers (also used in anti-lock
559 brakes) have to be able to maintain a steady output signal
560 given uncertain input (wear and tear on the mechanics,
561 grit...) that can vary wildly in an unknown manner.
562 OCR systems need to be able to tell the difference between
563 a cheque and unknown things, like night club flyers, and
564 they deal with hand written
569 (by AHuxley ( 892839 ))
572 Re "face detection" is not AI. Its a really big and fast
573 database. Filled with faces the police know about and random
574 people walking past CCTV.
575 Re "fuzzy logic controllers in washing machines" A set amount
576 of power, water, weight of laundry is not AI. Just good
577 programming within set limits.
578 Re "'finding directions" with maps that are created and set.
579 Re "recommendation algorithms" that is set by past people
580 buying things and another person showing the same interests.
581 More to do with collecting lots
584 (by JoeDuncan ( 874519 ))
587 > ..."face detection" is not AI. Its a really big and fast
588 > database. Filled with faces the police know...
589 ...and just HOW do the faces "police know" get matched to
590 this database? Explain without reference to AI.
591 > ..."fuzzy logic controllers in washing machines" A set
592 > amount of power, water, weight of laundry is not AI.
593 No it isn't, but you're a fool if you think your washing
594 machine is that simple these days. It DOES take fuzzy
595 logic to adapt to things like wear and tear on the
596 machine, arbitrarily changing water pressures and
597 temperatures, etc... and still maintain consistent
599 > "'finding directions" with maps that are created and set.
600 ...and using AI algorithms to find the best path.
601 Blah blah blah... you get the point. You've deliberately
602 downplayed the AI aspect
609 (by JoeDuncan ( 874519 ))
612 You are clearly uneducated, Troll.
613 If you actually wish to enlighten yourself, I'd start
614 here: [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
619 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_intelligence
624 (by hazem ( 472289 ))
627 > From the face detection in your phone, to the fuzzy logic
628 > controllers in washing machines, to the ant colony algorithms
629 > being used to route network traffic, to finding directions
630 > with google maps, to Netflix and Amazon's recommendation
631 > algorithms, to OCR for cheques and mail, to NEST thermostats,
632 > to robot vacuum cleaners and lawn mowers, to expert systems
633 > in medical diagnosis... (I could keep going)
634 When I took an AI class a few years ago, one of my favorite
635 things the professor said was, "What we called 'AI' yesterday
636 is simply the algorithm for how we do a thing today."
639 ** AI's Strength (Score:2)
640 (by thePsychologist ( 1062886 ))
643 AI (i.e. machine learning/neural networks) is really good at
644 optimizing stuff, so its natural strength shows when you have
645 hundreds of thousands of entities in a system. Examples are the
646 electricity grid, playing Go, and a department store's
648 In our individual lives, AI seems more like another drop in the
649 bucket of too much technology, and I think one day we'll realize
650 that less is more when it comes to the stuff in our homes.
652 ** Getting concerned myself (Score:1)
653 (by SuperKendall ( 25149 ))
656 I was looking at new fridges recently as a friend was asking for
657 a recommendation, and it's alarming how trying to find a fridge
658 without a screen is getting to be like trying to find a cell
659 phone without a camera... it really limits your options.
660 The only way they could make fridges any worse is the if screens
661 also played CNN constantly when not in use, like in an
662 airport... you can absolutely see subsidized ad-fridges coming
669 Seems like only the highest and lowest-end fridges lack
670 screens these days (as well as ice/water in the door,
671 something else I could do without).
674 (by mcswell ( 1102107 ))
677 Come to my house. The refr *has* an ice/water dispenser in
678 the door, but it hasn't worked for over a year. I think
679 the tube to the water dispenser is frozen, and if it gets
680 thawed, it just freezes up again. Same with the water
681 dispenser on the refr nearest my office at work.
682 As for the ice dispenser on our refr, we never used it, so
683 I took it out and got lots more room in the freezer. If we
684 want ice cubes, we make them in trays, like the 1960s.
691 (by sheramil ( 921315 ))
694 > What the hell does a fridge need a screen for?
695 You can connect it to a webcam inside the fridge and see
696 if the light goes out when you close the door.
700 ** I remember a time... (Score:2)
701 (by Dallas May ( 4891515 ))
704 My uncle was a computer scientist for a National Lab. He retired
705 15 or so years ago. I remember just after my grandmother first
706 got internet, he didn't have it at his home yet because he
707 didn't believe it was safe -this was probably 1997 or 98, and I
708 remember him talking to me about how disappointed he was with
709 the internet. "It was supposed to be this great thing. It's
710 useless. It'll never amount to anything."
714 (by bobbied ( 2522392 ))
717 > My uncle was a computer scientist for a National Lab. He
718 > retired 15 or so years ago. I remember just after my
719 > grandmother first got internet, he didn't have it at his home
720 > yet because he didn't believe it was safe -this was probably
721 > 1997 or 98, and I remember him talking to me about how
722 > disappointed he was with the internet. "It was supposed to be
723 > this great thing. It's useless. It'll never amount to
725 > Yeah, he was wrong.
726 Was he? Was he really?
727 How much of the internet is truly useful and how much is just
728 trash? Judging by my inbox, the number of E-mail in my inbox
729 the ratio 1s more than 10 to 1 SPAM to worth while messages
730 (And that's AFTER the SPAM filters.)
731 I find that this ratio pretty much governs the whole of the
732 internet.. Where 1/10th of it is actually something of use
733 and the rest is just useless junk.
734 So he's not that wrong.
740 (by mcswell ( 1102107 ))
743 And here you (and I) are.
747 ** I heard... (Score:1)
748 (by Hentai007 ( 188457 ))
751 AI is turning frogs gay.
754 (by AbRASiON ( 589899 ) *)
757 That's actually not true, the frogs are only gay for pay.
760 ** Nobody buys something because of AI (Score:3)
761 (by Laxator2 ( 973549 ))
764 I did not see any example where someone says: "I did not buy
765 that product because it lacked AI".
766 I did not hear from anyone that they need AI so they are going
767 out of their way to buy it. In its current form AI is good for
768 pattern recognition in some cases, for example, face
769 identification in photos.
770 The only customers are corporations with massive collections of
771 personal data to analyze, but not individual consumers.
772 I believe AI has been over-hyped and pushed in areas where it is
773 not usable in its current form (like self-driving cars) and we
774 start to see the backlash.
775 I've already seen stories saying that the medical diagnoses made
776 by IBM's Watson are just plain wrong. More examples will follow.
779 (by m00sh ( 2538182 ))
782 > I did not see any example where someone says: "I did not buy
783 > that product because it lacked AI".
784 > I did not hear from anyone that they need AI so they are
785 > going out of their way to buy it. In its current form AI is
786 > good for pattern recognition in some cases, for example, face
787 > identification in photos. The only customers are corporations
788 > with massive collections of personal data to analyze, but not
789 > individual consumers. I believe AI has been over-hyped and
790 > pushed in areas where it is not usable in its current form
791 > (like self-driving cars) and we start to see the backlash.
792 > I've already seen stories saying that the medical diagnoses
793 > made by IBM's Watson are just plain wrong. More examples will
795 What about Google home and Alexa?
796 How do you recognize pedestrians in self-driving cars without
798 IBM Watson was wrong quite a bit but it won jeopardy.
801 ** First they ignore you, ... (Score:1)
802 (by Maxo-Texas ( 864189 ))
805 First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight
808 This field is moving so fast compared to the 90s.
810 ** It's a dead end because it's not very good anyway (Score:2)
811 (by Rick Schumann ( 4662797 ))
814 So-called 'AI' is over-hyped and under-performing.
816 ** Another AI winter? (Score:2)
817 (by OneHundredAndTen ( 1523865 ))
820 The AI bubble seems to be starting to deflate. It may not pop,
821 but it will likely carry on shrinking. Most people already know
822 that Alex and co. are little more than gimmicks, good for party
823 games, grins and giggles, and little more. The AI community
824 seems to be making the same mistakes they made in the late 60s
825 and 70s. The second AI winter is nigh.
827 ** how do you see non-existent things ? (Score:2)
828 (by bingoUV ( 1066850 ))
831 If Consumer AI doesn't have a future, how can that non-existent
833 In an alternative interpretation, the author has seen the future
834 of Consumer AI and so of course it exists. But the future of the
835 future of Consumer AI doesn't exist. I.e. Future of Consumer AI
836 doesn't have one - where "one" stands for future.
837 Any other interpretations ?
839 ** It's not "Consumer AI" (Score:1)
840 (by themusicgod1 ( 241799 ))
843 Since the consumer is not control of it.
845 It's Anti-Consumer AI if anything
git://git.nikiroo.be / gofetch.git / blob