1 SOFTWARE DEVELOPERS ARE NOW MORE VALUABLE TO COMPANIES THAN
2 MONEY, SAYS SURVEY (CNBC.COM)
4 Thursday September 06, 2018 @11:30PM (BeauHD)
5 from the new-breed-of-corporate-leaders dept.
7 o News link: https://developers.slashdot.org/story/18/09/06/2024232/software-developers-are-now-more-valuable-to-companies-than-money-says-survey
8 o Source link: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/06/companies-worry-more-about-access-to-software-developers-than-capital.html
11 An anonymous reader quotes a report from CNBC: As our global
12 economy increasingly comes to run on technology-enabled rails
13 and every company becomes a tech company, demand for
14 high-quality software engineers is at an all-time high. A
15 recent study from Stripe and Harris Poll found that 61 percent
16 of C-suite executives believe access to developer talent is a
17 threat to the success of their business. Perhaps more
18 surprisingly -- as we mark a decade after the financial crisis
19 -- this threat was even ranked above capital constraints. And
20 yet, despite being many corporations' most precious resource,
21 developer talents are all too often squandered. Collectively,
22 companies today lose upward of $300 billion a year paying down
23 "technical debt," as developers pour time into maintaining
24 legacy systems or dealing with the ramifications of bad
25 software. This is especially worrisome, given the outsized
26 impact developers have on companies' chances of success.
27 Software developers don't have a monopoly on good ideas, but
28 their skill set makes them a uniquely deep source of
29 innovation, productivity and new economic connections. When
30 deployed correctly, developers can be economic multipliers --
31 coefficients that dramatically ratchet up the output of the
32 teams and companies of which they're a part.
35 ** So why not treat them well? (Score:5, Insightful)
36 (by gweihir ( 88907 ))
39 Naa, that would be un-capitalist. Developers must be cheap
40 wage-slaves that do not have a real career-path and are unable
41 to find a job once they hit 50. That will surely not have any
42 impact on whether smart people go into software writing or not,
45 ** Re: So why not treat them well? (Score:1)
46 (by Dannis12345 ( 5512754 ))
49 This is really true. As the fact that the IT leads the world.
55 (by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ))
58 > But even so, I hear these horror stories about how
59 > software developers are treated and I just have not seen
61 Me neither. I have worked for companies that had catered
62 meals, free soda, laundry service, sky diving bonding
63 trips, etc. I have had plenty of opportunities to travel.
64 I have worked some late nights, and done a few death
65 marches, but those only lasted a few weeks, out of a
66 career lasting decades.
67 Software developers are likely the most spoiled employees
68 in the history of the world.
69 People will alway whine.
72 (by gweihir ( 88907 ))
75 > People will alway whine.
76 And there you are wrong. I have a pretty good career
77 myself. But I see how many coders are treated and I am
78 not surprised at all that there are by far not enough
82 (by NicknameUnavailable ( 4134147 ))
85 As much as I'm for better treatment and perks for
86 coders, the issue of "not enough good ones" isn't
87 because of that. There's only so many smart people,
88 dumb people and mediocre people don't make good
89 coders. Some of the above-average ones might make
90 the cut as maintenance coders or some incredibly
91 soul-crushing AGILE environment where they don't
92 actually have to think, but for the most part any
93 programming position of note requires a 150+ IQ to
94 do even moderately well.
99 (by HornWumpus ( 783565 ))
102 How many 3+ standard deviation people are we
103 supposed to believe you know?
104 Same crit as you gave the GP. I doubt you know
110 (by gweihir ( 88907 ))
113 The issue is very much that a lot of the few
114 people that could be good at it, see the working
115 conditions and career options and go somewhere
116 else. Also, 150+IQ people basically do not exist.
117 I gather this is some wired non-standard US
121 (by _Sharp'r_ ( 649297 ))
124 Having a measured IQ >150, I can tell you with
125 my excellent two-minute Googling skills there
126 are approximately 300K in the U.S. if you're
127 using the Stanford-Binet scale. For the
128 Wechsler scale, it's more like 140K, which is
129 still a lot of people. Heck, the Prometheus
130 Society's cut-off for membership is 160+. I
131 guess to you, they basically don't exist...
135 (by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ))
138 > ... see the working conditions and career
139 > options and go somewhere else.
141 Doctors, lawyers and investment bankers work
142 longer hours than programmers. Nearly everyone
143 else makes less money.
144 Maybe they become underwater welders?
152 ** Re:So why not treat them well? (Score:5, Interesting)
153 (by spagthorpe ( 111133 ))
156 It won't really have any impact, because young people don't
157 think they'll ever get old. Or it will be different for them.
158 Had a 20-something at my last job make a number of comments
159 about some of the older developers there, saying they'd hate
160 to still be working at that age, and that they are probably
161 stuck doing the same work because they can't learn anything
162 new. I don't know why he was telling me this, as I was twice
163 his age at the time, but it's obvious that he doesn't think
164 he'll be in the same position.
165 They ultimately did lay off a lot of their senior engineers
166 and replace a lot of the position with 20-somethings,
167 including in project management positions. A number of those
168 projects never saw the light of day after years of re-writes
172 ** And yet there's agile (Score:2)
173 (by xxxJonBoyxxx ( 565205 ))
176 And open concept offices.
178 ** Re:And yet there's agile (Score:5, Interesting)
179 (by Seven Spirals ( 4924941 ))
182 I've quit one job and refused two others because of open
183 offices. The two I refused were absolutely flabbergasted by
184 my refusal. They literally could not understand why anyone
185 wouldn't want to be in an open office space surrounded on 3.8
186 sides by glass-walled manager offices, loud ugly marketing
187 girls, and a bunch of H1B dudes who couldn't be bothered to
188 wear deodorant. That place (MX Logic) had the worst looking
189 office I've ever seen. One of them offered me the job on the
190 spot after the interview and I was already shutting them down
191 and refusing it before they even got started. I told them
192 there is about a zero percent chance of getting anyone really
193 talented to take the gig, because they had this ridiculous
194 noisy slave pit thing going. I nearly left before I even
195 *did* the interview I was so disgusted with the place. The
196 hiring manager was (of course) offended, but he was also
197 clueless. About a year after that interview I had a guy come
198 up to me at the local Maker Space who was one of the
199 "technical resources" for the company during the interview
200 (quiet guy in the back of the room). He told me "My god was I
201 cheering when you refused them over the goddamn open
202 workspace idiocy. My boss was upset over that for weeks. They
203 still talk about it during the hiring process and argue about
207 (by bkmoore ( 1910118 ))
210 > ....One of them offered me the job on the spot after the
211 > interview and I was already shutting them down and
212 > refusing it before they even got started.....
213 It begs the question, why even apply there in the first
217 (by Klaxton ( 609696 ))
220 > It begs the question, why even apply there in the first
222 So you could see their office environment tucked away
223 behind the job description on the internet?
228 (by Ocker3 ( 1232550 ))
231 "But I can See everyone and I know that they're working" -
232 Manager If someone doesn't know enough about their direct
233 report's job that they don't know whether they're working
234 or not without seeing them at their desk, there's a
235 problem. Not all jobs are reduced in efficiency by a
236 cubicle farm, but if your job is primarily about mental
237 focus for the time-intensive tasks, then most people will
238 benefit from having their own room. And the employer will
239 probably benefit enough that an actual room is a
244 (by erp_consultant ( 2614861 ))
247 Sounds like a real horror show. Safe to say you made the
253 (by Klaxton ( 609696 ))
256 I've worked in the industry for many years, usually with a
257 private office or shared with one person. Recently got a job
258 in an agile "scrum" shop, which went to an open floorplan a
259 few months later. Miserable experience on both counts. Every
260 day you get a Jira work ticket for some "the user wants to
261 see" granule of a thing that you had no part in designing.
262 Zero privacy. It is amazingly de-motivating.
268 (by HornWumpus ( 783565 ))
271 Microsoft owns javascript? You have things backwards.
274 (by gweihir ( 88907 ))
277 I was thinking the same thing. Although JavaScript, Java,
278 and the surrounding ecosystems could have come from MS, no
283 ** Yeah, right (Score:5, Insightful)
284 (by Anonymous Coward)
287 If they considered developers more important than money, they'd
288 pay the developers more to keep the skilled ones. Every time a
289 developer leaves a company, a hunk of business knowledge walks
290 out the door with him.
291 Companies care about that quarter's finance report, and the
292 C-level execs care only about fleecing the company for all they
293 can stuff into their own pockets. Look at what they do, not what
298 ** Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
299 (by Anonymous Coward)
302 LOL. You've massively understated the ageism and the issue
303 of job qualifications.
304 First, the ageism problem is associated also with a
305 problem that people aren't allowed to take breaks. After
306 having great success even to the point of being a chief
307 architect on an 80-man program, I quit working for a while
308 and now can't find anyone who will let me start at the
310 But, the job qualification thing is really ridiculous. A
311 good software engineer is a specialist at picking up new
312 domains, languages, frameworks,
316 (by Anonymous Brave Guy ( 457657 ))
319 > Don't know where you live, but in most places I think
320 > developers are paid fairly well. We offer
321 > straight-out-of-school newbies $80-$90k, and still some
322 > turn us down for better offers.
323 Most places are not the Bay Area or a few big US cities.
324 In most of the world, new starter salaries in software
325 development are rarely more than 1/3 of that level, and in
326 many places they are much lower.
330 (by Ocker3 ( 1232550 ))
333 Your post is probably at zero rep because it was posted
334 AC, but you make good points.
341 (by Klaxton ( 609696 ))
344 Software developers generally have to do what they are told,
345 and work on whatever the boss thinks is important. You don't
346 get to decide whether it is going to bring in money or not.
349 ** Yeah haven't heard that one before (Score:2)
350 (by Crashmarik ( 635988 ))
353 Maybe it just sounds too much like 40 years of businesses
354 claiming there was a shortage of engineers in the U.S. when what
355 they meant was there was a shortage of engineers that could be
356 treated really badly.
357 Or maybe it's the fact that companies only seem to be willing to
358 hire H1Bs that will do anything not to go back to their
359 shitholes, or young kids who are stupid enough to believe
360 managements promises and have no family or social life to
361 distract from putting in 80+ hour weeks ?
364 (by zlives ( 2009072 ))
367 you misread, and i quote
368 "developer talent is a threat to the success of their
369 business" thus the hiring of no talent, spot filling h1b. and
370 if they accidentally get a talented h1b... replace and
374 ** FTFY (Score:5, Funny)
375 (by thevirtualcat ( 1071504 ))
378 Software Developers Who Are Willing To Work For Uncompetitive
379 Wages And No Benefits Are Now More Valuable To Companies Than
383 (by Seven Spirals ( 4924941 ))
386 Fucking-A right. Period.
389 ** .ORG (Score:4, Insightful)
390 (by fluffernutter ( 1411889 ))
393 This just tells me that developers need to get organized and
394 start saying no to 80+ work weeks collectively. Otherwise it
395 will be divided they fall, forever.
398 (by Ocker3 ( 1232550 ))
401 How do we re-invent Unions without calling them Unions and
402 avoid the very real baggage that the term has in the USA?
406 ** In other news... (Score:1)
407 (by Robobox Computer ( 5357621 ))
412 ** Legacy systems are out of control (Score:2)
413 (by xack ( 5304745 ))
416 Microsoft has just announced paid extended support for Windows 7
417 as too many companies are using it. There’s a lot of server 2003
418 systems out there too, with companies rather risking security
419 exploits than upgrade.
424 (by Ocker3 ( 1232550 ))
427 A pity that new features aren't separated from security
428 patches to allow users to keep their old platform secure
429 without feature changes.
433 (by xvan ( 2935999 ))
436 > Newer file browsers no longer let you edit the file path,
437 > you have to click on everything to get somewhere
438 Ctrl+L , no, you don't need to thank me.
443 (by Anonymous Coward)
446 So I'm supposed to upgrade the single Windows 2003 system I
447 have, running as a non-networked VM, hosting a proprietary
448 application on a system we need to lookup legacy data that
449 never changes so I can pay to upgrade to a modern system,
450 figure out a way to migrate the data from one proprietary
451 application to a new and different system just so I can have
452 support I don't need on a system that can't realistically be
453 exploited in the first place?
454 OR I'm supposed to pay a premium for extended support on the
459 (by gweihir ( 88907 ))
462 That is a different problem. Their new offerings are just
463 really bad. Also, nobody sane used MS crap on server-side.
466 ** Yet us 50+ folks are unemployed (Score:4, Informative)
467 (by Snotnose ( 212196 ))
470 Forget how long I've been out of work, it's been 2-3 years now
471 since I quit looking.
474 (by Locke2005 ( 849178 ))
477 I'm 57 and got at least 3 calls TODAY offering to submit me
478 for contract software positions. Granted, a lot of recruiters
479 try to low-ball me on the hourly rate, but they change their
480 tune as soon as you call their bluff and tell them you're not
481 interested at that low rate.
484 (by Anonymous Coward)
487 > I'm 57 and got at least 3 calls TODAY offering to submit
488 > me for contract software positions. Granted, a lot of
489 > recruiters try to low-ball me on the hourly rate, but they
490 > change their tune as soon as you call their bluff and tell
491 > them you're not interested at that low rate.
492 I get recruiters wanting to submit me all the time. Then
493 after a week, I follow up and the "the position is
494 closed." I think recruiters are assholes who got fired
495 from see car lots for ethics violations.
496 So, when you get a real job with health insurance, you'll
498 Of course, that's assumimg you're not full of shit.
501 (by Locke2005 ( 849178 ))
504 I agree; I regard recruiters as people that weren't
505 ethical enough to get jobs as used car salesmen. I
506 interviewed for a job once, didn't get any response, so
507 I started another position. A month after the initial
508 interview, the recruiter for the first position offered
509 me $1500 cash in a plain, unmarked envelope to quit the
510 job I'd just started and take the other position
511 instead! (Apparently the cash came out of his
512 commission.) So yes, recruiters know nothing, rely
513 almost entirely on keyword searching in r
518 ** So, the old adage? (Score:2)
519 (by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ))
522 Employees are our most valuable asset? I'm pretty sure it's
523 actually still money.
525 ** Nonsensical headline... (Score:2)
526 (by JoeDuncan ( 874519 ))
529 It's like saying "gold is worth more than money!" - totally
531 One (gold, developers) is a commodity that IS exchanged, the
532 other (money) is the medium OF exchange.
533 Saying that "commodity X" is worth more than "exchange medium Y"
534 makes no sense because a commodity CANNOT be worth "more" or
535 "less" than the medium of exchange used - it can only ever be
536 worth a specified amount of Y.
538 ** Talk about not understanding an article / Poll (Score:2)
539 (by Harlequin80 ( 1671040 ))
542 No where does it say that companies think developers are more
543 important than money.
544 The results state that the companies perceive the risk of not
545 being able to find skills as higher than the risks of not being
546 able to access capital.
547 This is especially true if you're a cash rich organisation.
548 In the current financial climate finding returns on your
549 investments is hard. Interest rates are at historically low
550 levels, bond returns are zero, and so that leaves higher risk
551 investments to get returns. That effecti
553 ** lots of employees are "worth more than money"... (Score:2)
554 (by bkmoore ( 1910118 ))
557 What management school fails to teach young inexperienced
558 executives: If the company's future existence depends on whether
559 or not an employee does the job correctly or not, they are
560 "worth more than money".
562 ** Tech debt is a business decision (Score:2)
566 Incurring technical debt is a business decision.
567 And it may well be the right decision.
568 For example, in a startup, time to market typically trumps
570 And there are a lot of startups in the software field...
572 ** Not at my compamy (Score:1)
573 (by dccase ( 56453 ))
576 Not at my company, and certainly not at any other
577 publicly-traded company.
578 Maybe at some privately-held company until it gets bought out.
580 ** Employees are our Most Valuable Asset (Score:3)
581 (by R3d M3rcury ( 871886 ))
584 Right behind [1]carbon paper. [dilbert.com]
589 [1] http://dilbert.com/strip/1993-03-03
591 ** And this is why we keep them chained to (Score:2)
git://git.nikiroo.be / gofetch.git / blob